Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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Dec 18, 2013
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I didn't mention Jesus because it was to the Virgin Mary that the prayers were offered. Marina Nemat had been Catholic before her forced conversion to Islam at the age of sixteen and so naturally prayers to enhance fertility would have been offered to the Mother of God.


Does it say in scripture that Satan cannot influence a pregnancy? Certainly Satan could be aware of a prayer. All he need do is listen.
1. Common misconception (don't feel bad I used to think same thing too) Catholics don't pray TO Mary, they see Mary as something like a passer of notes onto Jesus.

2. Not any scripture I am aware of lol. Not sure if Satan can listen to prayers to the Most High God even, I imagine it be painful to him, but I know not how the confused mind of the animal works.
 
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phil112

Guest
.............................Does it say in scripture that Satan cannot influence a pregnancy? Certainly Satan could be aware of a prayer. All he need do is listen.
Another point made. Christians, many of them, simply don't understand the information the bible gives us.
One of my favorites is insurance not covering a natural calamity by calling it "an act of God". If that ever happens to me, there will be a trial. It would not stand in a court of law. If God doesn't intervene, satan has his way. When God removed His hand of protection from Job, the devil used weather to harm him.
Job 1:19 "And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."

Don't ever believe satan doesn't have power.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Either there is evidence for God and Zeus or there isn't. I just don't see any, though I have looked rather long and hard hoping to find some (I should note that I haven’t actually looked for any evidence for the existence of Zeus), but the comparison is still well and good.


I never said otherwise.
Paul did not see and consider the evidence either until he was blinded by the light on the road to Damascus. Faith is the hope of evidence unseen and this will be rewarded by God. God's existence is not predicated on what anyone chooses to believe.
 
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phil112

Guest
Paul did not see and consider the evidence either until he was blinded by the light on the road to Damascus. Faith is the hope of evidence unseen and this will be rewarded by God. God's existence is not predicated on what anyone chooses to believe.
That is an inaccurate assessment of Paul's conversion. Nobody was more of a believer than Paul. He thought everything he did was serving God. His conversion had nothing to do with faith and everything to do with the Holy Ghost. The minute he was shown the error of his ways, he immediately repented. In Acts 22:10, As soon as Paul knew who he was talking to, said: "And I said, What shall I do, Lord?"
Paul's conversion was NOT faith based.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Generally Phil I agree with most of what you say.

Thing is, most people don't know and understand faith. It isn't a religious word.
Most atheists I've encountered don't like apply the word 'faith' to themselves, probably because they do think of it as having religious connotations. I've even argued strenuously that I don't have faith in anything, but as you say much depends on your definition.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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1. Common misconception (don't feel bad I used to think same thing too) Catholics don't pray TO Mary, they see Mary as something like a passer of notes onto Jesus.
How else does the Catholic send Mary those notes if not by prayer? But, you have jogged my memory. I think I may also have prayed to Jesus hoping he would pass on my requests to the Father.

2. Not any scripture I am aware of lol.
Then on what do you base the assertion that Satan cannot answer prayers, not even to fulfill his own devious plans?

Not sure if Satan can listen to prayers to the Most High God even, I imagine it be painful to him...
When I said my prayers many years ago Satan would only have had to enter my room to overhear my words which were spoken out loud; and why should this cause him pain? Again, I think you are making assumptions, but based perhaps only upon the way you would like things to be. Now, if in scripture we are told that prayers should be spoken silently so as to prevent their being overheard by Satan, why then you would had an argument.

... but I know not how the confused mind of the animal works.
What do you mean?
 
Dec 18, 2013
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How else does the Catholic send Mary those notes if not by prayer? But, you have jogged my memory. I think I may also have prayed to Jesus hoping he would pass on my requests to the Father.


Then on what do you base the assertion that Satan cannot answer prayers, not even to fulfill his own devious plans?


When I said my prayers many years ago Satan would only have had to enter my room to overhear my words which were spoken out loud; and why should this cause him pain? Again, I think you are making assumptions, but based perhaps only upon the way you would like things to be. Now, if in scripture we are told that prayers should be spoken silently so as to prevent their being overheard by Satan, why then you would had an argument.


What do you mean?
1. In my little parable here the notes are the prayers if you will.

2. I base the assertion that Satan cannot answer prayers because Satan does not possess that power. The power to answer prayers is God's alone.

3. Aye on this account I am making an assumption that it is painful for Satan when one prays to God as that would show beleif in God. Though indeed, I know not if this be true for certain. Perhaps he may hear them but not understand such. As I said I know not how the confused mind of the animal works.

4. I mean I know not how the confused mind of the animal works, thus I cannot know if when one prays to God it is painful for the Enemy or whether it is not. But really it matter not.

As far as a cripture on prayer repellign the devil, though I know not if it causes him actual pain, or merely he simply must flee before God I base that assumption off The Temptation episode found in the Gospels as well as these verses:

James 4:6-8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.



As far as scriptures in terms of praying silently, I believe it is good to pray silently, not because of Satan overhearing you or anything absurd like that, but because it reflects a genuineness of the prayer to the Lord Christ Jesus.

Matthew 6:5-13

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Give us this day our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
 
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May 15, 2014
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You are completely wrong when you say that.
Hebrews 11:1
Then show me this evidence of which your book speaks of.

And when I say 'evidence' I am not limiting it by anything except this. Show me the sort of evidence that you would accept if it was presented to you, that would make you consider Odin, Ra or Zeus to be a rival for your god.

When you understand why you reject this little trinity, you will understand why I, and a growing number of atheists reject them all.

As I said earlier in the thread, I am told that your god knows everything, so that s/he would know what would convince me to embrace Christianity, so ask him to show it to me.
 
May 14, 2014
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Then show me this evidence of which your book speaks of.

And when I say 'evidence' I am not limiting it by anything except this. Show me the sort of evidence that you would accept if it was presented to you, that would make you consider Odin, Ra or Zeus to be a rival for your god.

When you understand why you reject this little trinity, you will understand why I, and a growing number of atheists reject them all.

As I said earlier in the thread, I am told that your god knows everything, so that s/he would know what would convince me to embrace Christianity, so ask him to show it to me.
If I gave you a hug then you would believe.. Yea there that good
 
May 15, 2014
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Most atheists I've encountered don't like apply the word 'faith' to themselves...
Personally I would be ashamed if I were to have faith in anything. Reason is what drives me and my world, I have no time for propositions that are purely speculative and have no real evidence to back them up.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Then show me this evidence of which your book speaks of.

And when I say 'evidence' I am not limiting it by anything except this. Show me the sort of evidence that you would accept if it was presented to you, that would make you consider Odin, Ra or Zeus to be a rival for your god.

When you understand why you reject this little trinity, you will understand why I, and a growing number of atheists reject them all.

As I said earlier in the thread, I am told that your god knows everything, so that s/he would know what would convince me to embrace Christianity, so ask him to show it to me.
Put the trinity aside one moment brother. I know much on the ancient pagan religions. Aye there is no evidence whatsoever that Ra, Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Vishnu, Huitzlipochtli, Baal-Hadad, etc. ever walked this earth outside of their vain idols created by hands of men.

However, know this, it is an indisputable fact that the Lord Jesus whom is the Christ indeed live. In fact, he is the most provable person to have lived in all antiquity. This is a good place to start, and this is where I started to regain my logic from the clutches of the great illogic of atheism.
 
May 15, 2014
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If I gave you a hug then you would believe.. Yea there that good
Yeah right... And if a Moslem gave you a hug, you'd start praying to Mecca?

The level of scepticism that arises in you re my proposition, would be dwarfed by my scepticism of your claim.
 
May 15, 2014
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However, know this, it is an indisputable fact that the Lord Jesus whom is the Christ indeed live. In fact, he is the most provable person to have lived in all antiquity. This is a good place to start,
It sure is. Prove he existed. Give me a single, authoritative witness, referenced outside of your bible, and supported by the same sort of evidence we use to determine say... Julius Caesar's existence.

Jerusalem of 20ish AD was an intensely political environment. It housed some historians and a lot of spies reporting back to Rome all significant events. If the sky had gone black, if there was an earthquake that split the rocks, If the curtain had been ripped, if the dead walked - it would have been reported elsewhere.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Heh it is funny you mention Gaius Julius Caesar, for Julio-Claudian History is my secular forte'.

Just as with Caesar, even the enemies of Christ record his existence. Is this not found even in the writings of the Romans and the Pharisees? Aye even the roman pagan Thallus recorded the sky turning black indeed! Only difference between Caesar and Jesus is more people speak of Jesus than speak of Caesar from antiquity. Those in the four books of the Gospels and Paul, and the letter writers simply were friends of Jesus and knew him best.

Heh so quite a quandry you have yourself in here, which I found myself in once also. If you do not accept that Jesus walked amongst us, you cannot accept Julius Caesar ever lived since there is less proof for Caesar.
 
May 14, 2014
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Yeah right... And if a Moslem gave you a hug, you'd start praying to Mecca?

The level of scepticism that arises in you re my proposition, would be dwarfed by my scepticism of your claim.
No they to will believe as well. Be a skeptic all you want , just know when we cross paths a life changing hug is coming your way.. Lol
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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Anger? I didn't say anything about anger or vengeance. Where's this coming from?
I was talking about testimony/evidence of faith. You know as well as anyone that Christians can become angry and say things that are counterproductive. God is Love. As a Christian, it is a constant battle for some to overcome their anger. I have this problem as well. While I usually do pretty good in this forum (deleting things that I know I shouldn't post:)), but in person sometimes I let a "discussion" get to me. It is understandable, since we feel that salvation is important (and it is), but " A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger" (Proverbs 15:1) We must stand firm in our faith and in the truth, but more people will see God through His love.
 
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phil112

Guest
Personally I would be ashamed if I were to have faith in anything. Reason is what drives me and my world, I have no time for propositions that are purely speculative and have no real evidence to back them up.
Must be hard for you to look in the mirror................
 
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phil112

Guest
Then show me this evidence of which your book speaks of.

And when I say 'evidence' I am not limiting it by anything except this..................
You want me to produce evidence of a higher standard than even our legal system allows. All the evidence, evidence that would be admissible in a court of law, is available to you. What you do is deny it. Big difference there. You simply saying it doesn't exist does not speak it into oblivion.

If I were accused of something and in front of a jury on the word of a witness, I'd want you on that jury.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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If the sky had gone black, if there was an earthquake that split the rocks, If the curtain had been ripped, if the dead walked - it would have been reported elsewhere.
I wouldn't be so sure. Denials are rampant among human beings. Many saw miracles at the time of Jesus and yet did not believe. Even today, people would not all respond the same way to different manifestations of the miraculous.