Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[AgeofKnowledge]

I've been in numerous desperate and life threatening situations and I only experienced divine intervention when I cried out to God and it was absolutely necessary for me to receive divine intervention. The rest of the time my problems resolve through natural means (e.g. modern medicine, etc...) or flatten out over time and I find a way to live with them sans-divine intervention.

I've seen God miraculously heal Christians and experienced a supernatural healing miracle myself, but I've also seen Him simply act as a source of comfort for dying and suffering Christians sustaining them through periods of intense suffering and easing their transition into eternity. God's not a vending machine.

I don't know this man personally but I've heard of him. He attends Calvary Chapel. His experience was traumatic and he lives with the physical results of his experience every day but God showed up anyways.

[video=youtube_share;u3BTtii4fIY]http://youtu.be/u3BTtii4fIY[/video]

Now I never called you a liar and I'm not calling you a liar. You've wrongly assumed that I did and are defending yourself against an accusation I never made. You do not need to. I simply stated from a position of knowing that you're wrong, that you make false assertions about God which I correct as I have time to when I run across them.

What I said was:

"Clearly you separated yourself from God [instead of exercising your volition to vigorously pursue Him with all of your heart {Jeremiah 29:13} until you found Him instead giving up and spending that time on a Christian forum falsely asserting His nonexistence to people who know Him], publicly denied Him, and presently invest a material amount of your time on Christian forums exercising a negative volition making false assertions about Him.

You're shipwrecked (1 Timothy 1:19), in a spiritually bankrupt and deceived state, with a darkened heart (Ephesians 4:18) and it's clear as day to those of us in communion with God.

Yet even in your lost, deceived, spiritually bankrupt state; you serve the purposes of God fulfilling the role of an antagonist... a role you chose for yourself and presently live out somewhat obsessively.

My relationship with God continues to be strengthened in times of adversity... the very thing that led you to dispose of yours.

My tribulation was worse than your own. It was a perfect storm that struck suddenly and went on for years leaving me in poverty, debt, facing homelessness, serious illness, physical deformity, terrible pain, abandonment by friends, and all of the intense emotions that go along with living through such a grueling experience.

But I didn't abandon God as you chose too. I exercised my will and continued pursuing Him. That's when it happened. Subsequently, He supernaturally healed the most serious medical issue (the other remains but is manageable), began to assist me in rebuilding my career (a process that continues), restored my family to me (mission completed successfully), and led me to a church where I made new friends and experience Him work supernaturally as if it is common it happens so often.

It is from my present position of knowing that I watch you make false assertion after false assertion about God from your deceived state as the sand of time flows through the hourglass.

"But for the cowardly and u ἄπιστος, ον and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" -Revelations 21:8.

Yet while you live, God's offer of reconciliation remains (2 Timothy 2:13)."

^ It's not an accusation, it's just the truth. You are literally hanging over the pit of hell and completely deceived and in denial about your present metaphysical position.

It's not necessary and certainly undesirable. But it is your choice. I don't know if you harbor a resentment against God but you certainly blamed God for your atheism. The truth is that you're an atheist because you choose to be an atheist.

http://christianchat.com/christian-...sident-atheist-any-questions.html#post1497798

You can make better choices. But you're choosing not to. You have all this time to hang out in a Christian forum making false assertions about God instead of consistently attending a local Vineyard fellowship groups and learning how to follow Matt's advice.

Walk in God’s Supernatural Power!

Make no mistake, that's the choice you are making. You certainly can make the other choice.

Nobody can ruin your eternity except you. Satan can’t, he doesn’t have enough power to ruin your eternity. Satan can use his limited power to afflict you, oppress you, deceive you, etc... but he can't ruin your eternity unless you allow him to. God has to judge you because He is holy but he's made a way for you to avoid judgment and spend eternity with Himself. He loves you. So ultimately, the only person who can totally, permanently destroy your eternity is you by the choices you make in this life and that's exactly what you are choosing to do.

What I sought was confirmation of his presence. Any acknowledgement at all is what I hoped to receive. I kept looking for a sign, but nothing came my way. Wait a sec. You are flying off on some kind of tangent. Are you talking about 40 years ago or this past few months? First of all when I became an atheist I was not aware there were other atheists in the world. I hadn't even told anyone I was an atheist. There was no public declaration. Can you clarify your accusation? I never knowingly make false assertions. You are making a false assertion. If you wish to speak truthfully you should simply say that I make claims contrary to what you believe. I believe my statements are both accurate and defensible. If you believe you are right I would think you would welcome the opportunity to correct my misunderstanding, but I don’t see any attempt to do so in this post. You have such a negative attitude toward those who interpret the evidence differently. You seem more interested in being accusatory than in discussion. Things are not as they seem AoK. You view the world through a glass darkly. Do you interpret my posts as bringing you adversity? I don't think you understand why my faith collapsed. Very sorry for your troubles. God abandoned me. It would have been a simple matter for him to make his presence known. If he exists then he apparently chose not to act. Jesus said God cares more for the lost sheep than for the rest of the flock that is not lost. I was lost. I tried to find God, but I did not succeed. I knocked, but the door did not open. I interpreted the silence to mean there was nothing there. If you have evidence of God that all men can clearly see, then by all means show me. Healed you? That things improved financially and socially is not evidence of God. It may well be evidence that hard work and persistence pays off; but of your being healed I can make no comment. I know nothing about your situation. I object to your calling my assertions false, anyone can do that. Take one of my assertions and prove it false. Well, I am certainly glad I am none of those things. I earnestly sought God, but did not receive a reply. Had God responded I would not now be an atheist.

 

[Sirk]

The gloves came off long ago when people started calling us scum of the earth. Stupid and threatened us with eternal hell etc

It funny that you bring this up. Even tho atheists do not believe in creator, even they understand that universal law that 2 wrongs do not make a right....yet some of you disregard this law and "the gloves come off" as you say. This is completely illogical coming from a group who claim exclusivity on logic. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

It funny that you bring this up. Even tho atheists do not believe in creator, even they understand that universal law that 2 wrongs do not make a right....yet some of you disregard this law and "the gloves come off" as you say. This is completely illogical coming from a group who claim exclusivity on logic. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

Nothing to do with religion or logic. Eventually someone is going to hit back after a series of insults and remarks.

 

[Sirk]

Nothing to do with religion or logic. Eventually someone is going to hit back after a series of insults and remarks.

Right but atheists claim exclusivity on logic and reason. A logically reasonable person knows that attacking someone, even if they attacked you, is illogical. Nothing to do with religion, although scripture did make this known long before psychologists claimed that they discovered it.

 

[nl]

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (Galatians 5:6)

Christian faith is expressed in love. Expressions of faith and love include:

• Giving time to prayer and praise (particularly prayers for others that no one may see except God Himself)
• Giving time
• Giving money
• Loving those who don't love in return
• Trusting God when loving an enemy
• Community service and outreach
• Any form of obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ that isn't convenient or easy.

Motives can vary for these activities. But, the right motives will tend to generate good activities for good purposes.

Jesus pronounced many hard sayings:

"Love your enemies" would be one.

Another would be: “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

[nl]

Hard saying but a hopeful promise:


Source: Logos Bible Software

 

[Cycel]

... I am no longer concerned about God not dropping in to acknowledge my prayers. His absence pretty much confirmed my earlier suspicions that he wasn't really there.

Which, of course, does not explain why God is letting me experience His acknowledgement of my prayers.

What I sought was confirmation of his presence. Any acknowledgement at all is what I hoped to receive. I kept looking for a sign, but nothing came my way.

My experience doesn't say anything about your experience with prayer. I was simply attempting to convey to you what I experienced. I attempted to reach God, that was my point. I tried very hard. I did not get a response and that is why I ended up becoming an atheist.

So often Christians explain that all one has to do is reach out and God will answer. They say this because they believe this is what will happen. I am living proof it doesn't always work that way, and it doesn't matter whether anyone else believes I was sincere enough in my effort; but I suppose it is somewhat annoying, all the same, when people deny my sincerity. I know I was sincere and that is all that should matter.

 

[Cycel]

Clearly you separated yourself from God, publicly denied Him...

Wait a sec. You are flying off on some kind of tangent. Are you talking about 40 years ago or this past few months? First of all when I became an atheist I was not aware there were other atheists in the world. I hadn't even told anyone I was an atheist. There was no public declaration. Can you clarify your accusation?

I’ve never thought of myself as separating myself from God. It was God who never reached out to me when I sent my pleas heavenward those many decades ago. Also, there was no public denial. Later I did tell my closest friend, but only after learning he too had become an atheist.

 

[Cycel]

... and presently invest a material amount of your time on Christian forums exercising a negative volition making false assertions about Him.

I never knowingly make false assertions. You are making a false assertion. If you wish to speak truthfully you should simply say that I make claims contrary to what you believe. I believe my statements are both accurate and defensible.

Now I never called you a liar and I'm not calling you a liar. You've wrongly assumed that I did and are defending yourself against an accusation I never made. You do not need to. I simply stated from a position of knowing that you're wrong, that you make false assertions about God which I correct as I have time to when I run across them.

The problem is in your phrasing. I do not make false assertions, but I do make assertions you think to be false. I would have less cause to complain if you simply stated that you disagreed with me and explained why. I am just concerned that if you state I am making false assertions you leave open the possibility that I am deliberately misinforming. I do not do this.

Perhaps I am too sensitive in thinking my character is being besmirched when that is not really what you meant to imply.

 

[Sirk]

My experience doesn't say anything about your experience with prayer. I was simply attempting to convey to you what I experienced. I attempted to reach God, that was my point. I tried very hard. I did not get a response and that is why I ended up becoming an atheist.

So often Christians explain that all one has to do is reach out and God will answer. They say this because they believe this is what will happen. I am living proof it doesn't always work that way, and it doesn't matter whether anyone else believes I was sincere enough in my effort; but I suppose it is somewhat annoying, all the same, when people deny my sincerity. I know I was sincere and that is all that should matter.

Matthew 12:39 "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas"

Essentially you were testing God. Maybe you didn't know it, but in your heart you may have been.

 

[Timeline]

But you don't disagree with the the scum of the earth part? Lol

I would not call atheists "scum of the earth". I think a man that believes in God and decides to mislead others is much worse. I also am glad for the atheist that is searching to see if there is a God, a person that really wants to know. But I do not appreciate the atheist that is just trying to put stumbling blocks in front of a believer. I know that you cannot say anything to trip me up, but there are those that have not built their faith and you might say something to make them stumble.

 

[nl]

Many biblical scholars assert, for instance, that Acts cannot be trusted.

The Book of Acts has been described as the Acts of the Apostles but it has also been described as the Acts of the Holy Spirit.

Professing Christians have their own little kingdoms and politics, particularly the ones who earn their household income via the churches. It's probably sad but true that there's been a lot of politics and more than a few church splits over varying views of the Book of Acts. There are many happenings in the Book of Acts that are beyond the realm of tight, ecclesiastical control. The Holy Spiritis empowering common people.

Sorry but "Many biblical scholars assert" is a vague and general. I highly expect that I could learn some more with specifics that you might share.

Powerful events are described in the Book of Acts.

Before the Day of Pentecost, 120 disciples had prayed together (Acts 1:15); then on Pentecost day itself 3000 believers declared themselves obedient followers of Jesus as Lord and Christ (Acts 2:41). The Holy Spirit had come in a powerful way.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)

 

[Cycel]

Matthew 12:39 "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas"

Essentially you were testing God. Maybe you didn't know it, but in your heart you may have been.

The Pharisees in the quote were asking Jesus to prove his claim of being a prophet, they were not asking God for a sign. They already believed in God. Christians claim all the time that God speaks to them in different ways. Many have told me this is why they know God is real. All I was asking for is what the rest of you often claim to experience all the time.

 

[Timeline]

The Pharisees in the quote were asking Jesus to prove his claim of being a prophet, they were not asking God for a sign. They already believed in God. Christians claim all the time that God speaks to them in different ways. Many have told me this is why they know God is real. All I was asking for is what the rest of you often claim to experience all the time.

I do not agree with Sirk on this one. I don't think it was bad for you to want something from God: a sign, or some kind of feedback. But Jesus does tell us that we don't receive because we ask for the wrong reasons. I know that Gideon asked for a sign twice and he was not rebuked. I believe Moses asked for a sign as well (whether he did or not, God gave him two - and then of course many others).

My guess would be, and please do not think I am trying to bash you here, that you did not like the response. I realize I don't know you, and I could be way out of line, and I apologize if I am.

 

[Sirk]

If you are living your life according to Gods purpose and obeying what his word commands you, it isn't necessary to put out fleece as God blesses those who love him, gives grace to the humble and is gracious to accommodate all of your needs as you walk according to His will.

 

[Timeline]

If you are living your life according to Gods purpose and obeying what his word commands you, it isn't necessary to put out fleece as God blesses those who love him, gives grace to the humble and is gracious to accommodate all of your needs as you walk according to His will.

I was going to hit like, but I am not sure exactly what you are saying. I do know that God has answered prayers of mine. I have asked Him for specific things and He has granted my requests. One thing specific comes to mind and I believe that He did something extra which I did not ask for. It always brings a smile to my face when I think about it. But I do not believe that God does "parlor tricks", nor does He appear on command. I have often wanted Jesus to appear to me so that we could talk and He could explain some things to me. This has never happened, at least not in the way that I hope for. That is okay. I know that God is alive and well, and that He will let me know anything that He wants me to know.

 

[mustaphadrink]

I attempted to reach God, that was my point. I tried very hard. I did not get a response and that is why I ended up becoming an atheist.

Pray tell us, how did you attempt to reach God. Saying you didn't get a response so you became an atheist sounds a bit petulant to me.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Nothing to do with religion or logic. Eventually someone is going to hit back after a series of insults and remarks.

Except that atheists cannot tell anyone to be all loving if they are not themselves and it is obvious that they are not as their main occupation seems to be attacking people they disagree with and suing the pants of people that are minding their own business.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Oh please, your whole religious history has been survival of the fittest. All the conferences from Nicaea to Rome where the Christian Faith was decided. Other lesser supported stories and theories were quashed from history. As they say, history is written by the winners.

Oh boy. More mumbo jumbo mush of the atheist kind. Of course the survival of the fittest is very evident that is why the Salvation Army spends millions of dollars helping the less fortunate. Christians account for an inordinate amount of “volunteering hours” in Australia, they give blood at higher-than-normal rates, and 18 of the nation’s 25 largest charities are Christian organisations. World Vision one of the largest Charities in the world and is a Christian organisation. And not to mention Mother Teresa who gave herself totally to the betterment of the people slumming it in Calcutta in India. And then there are several ministries I know of who built, run and finance orphanages for children in Africa whose parents have died of AIDS. And I know of another Christian ministry who provide millions of dollars every year for food, clothing, houses, heating, running water and power around the world.

A real survival of the fittest ministries focussing on the poor, dying, starving, homeless, and oppressed.

The only reason the atheists want their tax exempt status withdrawn is because the christians show up the atheist's ideology of survival of the fittest so they don't believe in helping people in need.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Says the man signing up to gay forums.

You are desperate to say something intelligent aren't you. There must be something wrong with you signing up to Christian forums.