K
Kerry
Guest
Pharisees were biblical scholars, I think you know that. But they did not recognize the Messiah in their face.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Pharisees were biblical scholars, I think you know that. But they did not recognize the Messiah in their face.
K
Kerry
Guest
And greetings to you from the cold north. Actually, it was quite pleasant today. I was able to do without a coat in the afternoon, though the morning air was only a bit above freezing. I notice that the buds are beginning to swell on some of the trees.
I only see two ways for me to come to God. One, would be direct intervention from God, showing me that he exists. The other would be someone offering evidence of the same that I can't argue myself out of. I have already searched for God in every nook and cranny. When that failed I appealed to him directly. When that failed, I became an atheist. I am someone who is always questioning and always searching. I love the pursuit of knowledge. If God exists, I dearly want to know about it, but if he doesn't, I don't want to live with a self delusion. I did not choose to give up belief in God, as I've explained, but the belief simply faded, and one day I discovered that I no longer believed. So I never abandoned belief, rather, belief abandoned me. Do you see the difference?
To tell you the truth I am still not sure what it is, but I gather they are pushers of circumcision and being legalistic-ish. I guess because I still feel the 10 Commandments are relevant and I am a Sabbath keeper. I know the commandments can't save me but they show me and others what sin is and that is - sin is transgression of the law. I am saved by the blood of Jesus and by His grace and mercy I rest in Him. There is a BIG thread out there called Attack of the Judaizers - I gave up on that thread a while ago and find hanging out here more of a benefit for me.
I really feel for you and those up north as it seems to be the never ending winter of 2013/14. So glad that it was a little better for you today.
I don't understand the difference about abandoned belief. In my case I was the one always walking away from God in my rotating door relationship with Him, but for me three years ago I realized I did not understand what salvation was so that was my big brake through and then longest conversation I ever had with God who explained salvation to me. I have not turned or walked away from God since then and don't see myself ever walking away again. For me my rotating door has opened wide and I have walked inside and wait with God until Jesus comes again.
I disagree. The Pharisees would have agreed with him on many points. It wasn't them who wanted him dead. That distinction belongs to the Sadducees, who ran the temple, and who were puppets of the Herodian dynasty and of the Romans. When Jesus carried out an attack on the temple it was the Sadducees who would have found him a real and immediate threat. One perhaps even requiring his execution. They had valid concerns, but I also understand Jesus’ motivation. It was a politically charged manoeuver and it cost Jesus his life. That’s my view.
K
Kerry
Guest
Be cause they "were sad you see". But i Beg to differ
John 8
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 10
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 8
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
John 10
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Cycel said:
Those who abandon belief make a conscious decision to walk away from it. Those who are abandoned by belief make the discovery that the belief has left them. This loss can come upon a person unawares, as it did me.JesusLives said:
I believe Dan Barker says much the same thing happened to him. He is a former evangelical Christian preacher who lost his belief in God over a number of years. He explain how this happened in his book Godless, and also talks of his effort to hold on to that his faith.
I'd be curious to hear from the other atheists members about their experience. Did they deliberately abandon their belief in God or did they lose it even while attempting to hold on?
K
Kerry
Guest
Cycel you keep saying I believe what this dude said and what that guy said. I think you are a mixed up kid that needs a foundation and you can only find it in Christ. You got to stand for something or you will fall for anything. Dude or should I say dog you are all over the place. Jockeying from this to that. Find that center ground that is Christ and Him crucified.
I see this as too simplistic. It ignores Jewish diversity and acts as if all Jews thought alike. They did not. Which Jews are attacking him? I accept by the way that Jesus led an attack on the temple. With my understanding of history this act is a very plausible event.
I don't accept the historicity of this text. Jesus is essentially claiming to be God. Jesus was Jewish and no historical Jew would make such a claim. Not all the gospels support the view that Jesus was God.
K
Kerry
Guest
Show one of the Gospel that dispels this fact. In fact show any biblical passage that dispels it.
Be more specific. Direct your criticism at particular points I am making and show where you think I have gone wrong in each instance. Your criticism above is too general to respond to.
You want me to quote an entire Gospel? Where in Matthew, Mark, or Luke does Jesus call himself God? Prove me wrong. Perhaps I am, but I won't know it if you don't provide the appropriate scripture.
K
Kerry
Guest
K
Kerry
Guest
Dawkins is our God? No one can take you seriously when you spout nonsense like this.
Churches? Atheists have churches? I've never heard this before. Can you provide a link? I am most curious.
K
Kerry
Guest
Yes, in John. My point was that he only does this in John. I quoted in an earlier post this evening from Luke, where the scripture seems to say Jesus is not God.
I’ll reproduce it here so you don’t have to go searching:
LOL!
No Kerry, I only wanted the point proved to me. I don't believe it, but I was trying very hard to remain polite.
There are several places that Jesus calls himself, God. John 8:58 is one of them [SUP]57 [/SUP]So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” [SUP]58 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
Jesus is referring to Exodus 3:14 [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.’ Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?” [SUP]14 [/SUP]God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
And that is why they picked up stones to kill Him.
In other words all the places where Jesus says "I am", He is saying that He is God. I am not certain how that works, whether He is God because He is the Son of God or because He was actually God. There is a lot of debate about this among Christians.