Capital Punishment?

[Cako53]

One simple yes or no statement. If the Jews brought before the Lord a murderer instead of an adulterer and asked if it was alright to proceed with the stoning, do you believe he would not have said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone,"but rather something like proceed?

I've already told you my answer, and you haven't answered my question. My answer is capital punishment should be there for the mose haneous of crimes. and yes I forgive these people, but they still have punishment. Now my question for you. Are you saying that every single criminal should be let off with a little slap on the wrist, just because we are supposed to forgive them. where in the bible does it say that we must forgive everyone AND leave them unpunished? I've never read that before.

 

[shad]

Actually, all your references in scripture seem to prove my point. As I had written, vengeance is the Lord's. Ananias was not killed by a Christian or an apostle. No where is it written in any part of the New Testament that a Christian killed someone according to the will of the Lord, nor is the killing of any person by another person ever justified. God gave life, it is his right and his alone to take it away, nobody else has the right to destroy what God has created and has not yet destroyed himself. Do you believe that there is any person on earth that has offended another person more than our offenses against God? Not only does God forgive man for his sins against him, but he went so far as to suffer and die just so we can be forgiven. If we condemn a neighbor to death, how can we expect to escape our own condemnation which is far more grievous?

Would you take the life of your neighbor in self defense or in defending your family or another neighbor who was being attacked, robbed or molested etc.? When someone trespasses on your property and breaks into your home with or without being armed, do you think they care for your life or the life of your family? Do you tell them to go away or do you take action and protect your family and property at all cost? One of the characteristics that proceeds out of the heart of man is...murders. That can come out of anyone's heart at any time. Should we protect ourselves from a murderer? OR~ Do we try to dialog and talk our way out of it? Should the serial killer who has murder in his heart not be executed for his crimes that he got away with? If your sister, wife or daughter was being attacked would you use all force necessary to stop the attacker even if it meant taking their life?

These are not cases of living by the sword and dying by the sword. This is about protecting life and limb from those that do not care about the sanctity of life. Do the police have the right to execute a man who is discharging a weapon? If that same man came at us can we not defend ourselves? If that same man had murdered another and was wounded by police and taken into custody, should he not stand trial before a jury of his peers and be sentenced according to the dictates of the law that is established to protect society even if it means death? Did America do wrong in executing a horse thief? David had lots of blood on his hands but do you rationalize and say it was okay because it was in the OT under a different dispensation and they were commanded to do it.

I think it is dangerous and very foolish to condemn capital punishment upon those that have executed the same through their total disregard for the sanctity of a human life. It may not be compatible with the message of the gospel and the will of God for the church, but it is necessary in order to sustain a civilized society so that individual freedom is preserved and promoted for growth and happiness. I am not only a citizen of heaven but of this great nation of the USA and I support its constitution and the rights and laws thereof.

 

[shad]

I forgot to mention something else: capital punishment does not deter crime. Studies have shown over the years that a death penalty does not prevent crimes from happening.

Also, I am disturbed by some of the ugly, hateful stuff being posted here by Christians. You are not to have hatred toward any man, no matter how awful he is. We can be disgusted and disturbed by a person's actions, and we can feel anger toward them, etc. These are natural reactions. But what we must not do let those hateful, primal impulses take us over to the point were we advocate for the death of another human being. Jesus said, "Love your enemies as yourselves." He didn't list any exceptions to this rule. And when he says "enemy" he doesn't mean the person that annoys you at work; he means anyone that you hate, and especially anyone that hates you and tries to make your life miserable. This new way of living that Jesus and the New Testament lay out is TOUGH. There's no doubt about that. And often it doesn't make sense: why would I keep forgiving someone that keeps doing wrong, or why would I love someone that wants to harm me? Yet this is what Jesus calls us to. We can talk about how difficult it is, and lean on each other for support, but when we start saying "Forget what Jesus said, this guy deserves to die!" . . . I just don't know what to say. If you would like me to post several verses proving supporting my position I can do so, but I'just disheartened at the thought of having to do so.

You have said what you have the say. Show me in the NT gospels (a better way) where Jesus Christ ever condemned an execution of any man under the law of the Roman Empire, including the beheading of John the Baptist and the two malefactors that were crucified with Him.

BTW ~ Concerning the vengence that belongs to God and that He will repay, are you going to make a dogmatic statement that God never has used people, or nations or governments to execute His vengence upon other people, tribes, nations or governments?

 

[EnochxGenesis]

I want to hear everyone's views on capital punishment. Scripture is nice to hear, but if not, that's fine to. Should capital punishment be in effect? What crimes deserve capital punishment?

I guess I could start with my opinions. I think that pre-meditated murder deserves capital punishment, child molestation/sexual abuse deserves capital punshment. I also believe that rapists should be castrated. Any ways, that's my opinions, now lets hear yours.

I think capital punishment is primitive, and it should be done away with.

if we murder a murderer, we are only sinking down to his level.

PS. the idea of being trapped in a cell for the rest of your life, actually sounds worse to me.

 

[Maddog]

Would you take the life of your neighbor in self defense or in defending your family or another neighbor who was being attacked, robbed or molested etc.? When someone trespasses on your property and breaks into your home with or without being armed, do you think they care for your life or the life of your family? Do you tell them to go away or do you take action and protect your family and property at all cost? One of the characteristics that proceeds out of the heart of man is...murders. That can come out of anyone's heart at any time. Should we protect ourselves from a murderer? OR~ Do we try to dialog and talk our way out of it? Should the serial killer who has murder in his heart not be executed for his crimes that he got away with? If your sister, wife or daughter was being attacked would you use all force necessary to stop the attacker even if it meant taking their life?

There's a difference between using force to protect the safety of yourself or others and capital punishment.

 

[shad]

There's a difference between using force to protect the safety of yourself or others and capital punishment.

If a thief broke in your home and killed your wife and daughter, would you have killed the thief if you were there to protect your wife and daughter. But you were not home to prevent it and now he is caught and is guilty of a double murder and you do not want him executed. You would have killed him to protect your family but you do not want the justice system to execute him because you are a Christian. If you killed him in your home to protect your family, you feel justified in taking his life, but if the justice system finds him guilty, you do not feel they are justified in executing him for a double murder.

 

[Maddog]

If a thief broke in your home and killed your wife and daughter, would you have killed the thief if you were there to protect your wife and daughter. But you were not home to prevent it and now he is caught and is guilty of a double murder and you do not want him executed. You would have killed him to protect your family but you do not want the justice system to execute him because you are a Christian. If you killed him in your home to protect your family, you feel justified in taking his life, but if the justice system finds him guilty, you do not feel they are justified in executing him for a double murder.

I would have used reasonable force to protect my family; that may or may not result in his death, but I would sincerely hope not. After the event, and when no lives are immediately in danger there is no need to kill him. No one should desire the death of another.

To be clear, I think as far as strict justice is concerned he would deserve death, but I don't believe that the state or any other man has authority over human life itself.

 

[Cako53]

Shad, I love your statement about God using people to execute his wrath. Very true! Everyone always says that God uses people, and you need to be open to letting him use you. Well how is this not the same thing? How can you prove that this isn't God's wrath, by executing these people.

 

[Maddog]

How can you prove that this isn't God's wrath, by executing these people.

How would you prove that it is?

 

[Cako53]

How would you prove that it is?

Okay, so you have still proved nothing. We are still at point A sitting in park. Either way, how can you say it isn't his wrath? who are we to judge God for how he acts?

 

[Matthew]

Shad, I love your statement about God using people to execute his wrath. Very true! Everyone always says that God uses people, and you need to be open to letting him use you. Well how is this not the same thing? How can you prove that this isn't God's wrath, by executing these people.

I understand the argument that the Lord works through us and that is the way he influences the world, but I also think that is a dangerous view to take because people can begin to justify anything by that standard and claim diminished responsibilty for things they do.
Many religious extremists use that kind of reasoning to justify thier actions and anyone can do something extreme and claim they did it because their religion or God demands it, it can be used as a way to slience our own feelings and do something me might not otherwise do because we can convince ourselves that it isn't a negative impulse we should resist but rather a command from God to issue punishment.

I'm not saying that view is wrong, just that you need to be very careful and be absolutely sure you are still in line with the values of your faith and not simply seeking justification to give in to your anger and desire to have revenge.

 

[Maddog]

Okay, so you have still proved nothing. We are still at point A sitting in park. Either way, how can you say it isn't his wrath? who are we to judge God for how he acts?

By this reasoning, anyone could do anything and claim they were doing God's work until someone can prove otherwise. It's practically impossible to prove a negative such as that. Generally, the onus is on the one making the positive claim to prove their position.

God does use people for His purpose, yes, but how would we recognise when it's from God and when it's not?

 

[Cako53]

By this reasoning, anyone could do anything and claim they were doing God's work until someone can prove otherwise. It's practically impossible to prove a negative such as that. Generally, the onus is on the one making the positive claim to prove their position.

God does use people for His purpose, yes, but how would we recognise when it's from God and when it's not?

I get what are you saying, I suppose I should read over what I type before I send it, cause that sounded stupid. my bad. Either way, I am still in favour of capital punishment, lol.

 

[oopsies]

Me? No. I'm more of the type to just lock them up and flush the keys down the toilet. Somehow, it just doesn't feel right for me.

 

[Khorib2]

I think Capital Punishment is necessary, but should be used sparingly. Only in the most extreme cases should it be enforced, and when there is full evidence to support the crime. It is not worth killing an innocent person over false accusations and the chances of the happening should be minimized.

 

[Jordan9]

"Is God vengeful demanding a death for a death? Or is God compassionate, luring souls into love so great that no one can be considered 'enemy'?" - Sister Helen Prejean

 

[erika83]

Capital punishment is not biblical, we are not living under law but grace. I know in USA someone condemned to death will probably be killed after years and years spent in jail, because of appeals etc, so what's the use of even killing them after all? They could just be jailed for lifetime, which is not much better than death anyway. This way their chance to repent won't be taken away from them. I don't think humans have the right to decide about who should die.

 

[shad]

Capital punishment is not biblical, we are not living under law but grace. I know in USA someone condemned to death will probably be killed after years and years spent in jail, because of appeals etc, so what's the use of even killing them after all? They could just be jailed for lifetime, which is not much better than death anyway. This way their chance to repent won't be taken away from them. I don't think humans have the right to decide about who should die.

As a believer and being under grace and not the law as you have said, I don't want to see anyone executed for murder or any other crime. I am a citizen of heaven but also a citizen of a country and nation that is governed by a body of laws. These laws are made to create a civilized society for its citizens to live in, to be protected, to be able to have freedom and to be productive in life. The laws are against that which is evil, against those that transgress and against those that have no regard for the sanctity of human life. Not all of the law is perfect and just especially when it comes to the sanctity of an unborn child. However, those that violate the law of the land must be prosecuted and sentenced according to the law to protect all the freedoms and rights of others, the basic freedom being safe in our persons.

You have said that capital punishment is not biblical. Please show me in the NT gospels (which is under grace) where Jesus Christ or any of the apostles ever condemned an execution of any man under the law of the Roman Empire, including the beheading of John the Baptist and the two malefactors that were crucified with Christ and also when Herod slew James, the brother of John, with the sword / Acts 12:2? Did not Jesus also say that if you live by the sword you shall die by the sword / Mt 26:52? I know that these executions were acts of persecution from a wicked King Herod but none were condemned as being unjust. Paul fought for his life as a citizen under the law of the Roman Empire, but never condemned the laws of execution.

 

[Leilaii425]

Im not sure how sitting in jail could be punishment. There are so many things to do in jail now days, that keeps an inmate out of the cell until its time for them to go to sleep. They have teachers come in and there allowed to do college, there are work programs, they can sit and watch t.v. my brothers been in jail more times than i can count, and he said he didnt mind it, cause him and the friends he made their chilled out played card games watched t.v. how is this punishment??? Why should a convicted killer rapist pedophile sit behind bars and participate in normal activities... i say kill em....

 

[Kathleen]

Im not sure how sitting in jail could be punishment. There are so many things to do in jail now days, that keeps an inmate out of the cell until its time for them to go to sleep. They have teachers come in and there allowed to do college, there are work programs, they can sit and watch t.v. my brothers been in jail more times than i can count, and he said he didnt mind it, cause him and the friends he made their chilled out played card games watched t.v. how is this punishment??? Why should a convicted killer rapist pedophile sit behind bars and participate in normal activities... i say kill em....

Awsome ^^ I think we are on the same page lol.

I know someone who was in jail for 10 years - as a convitced peodiphile - but I know he was innocent. He was with my family at the time :S
Anywayz..for all you people that say 'what if the person is innocent' - the majority of the people that are put in prision are guilty.

And leilaii you are right - jail is a joke - my friends ( above ) was put in jail and has come out with a masters degree in LAW and a great carpenter.

Does anyone actually know what the purpose of a jail is for - it is to take away a criminals freedom - nothing more.