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>)....Hi Guys.
Just to get us back on topic. There still seems to be a preconception that atheists still believe in one deity or another and are corrupt and without morals. This all seems to be from the inflexible constant that there must be a god and their must be a devil, and these constructs are held to be true as they were written in a book that was originally written by ancient jewish scribes, badly translated, edit and compiled by a Roman Republican Forum, then retranslated in a flexible manner at the command of an english king.
Moral Psychology Research Lab
On the subject of Morals, the moral absolute does not exist in any human being upon birth. It is learnt from the culture and environment within which it develops. Every moral decision results from a process of 'if this was done to me how would it feel?' and/or 'what are the possible positive and negative tribal outcomes from me performing a certain action'. You burn your finger on a hot oven hob. It causes you a pain which last for a long time. Do you now have the urge to put someone else's hand, who may be important to you, on the hob? Well mostly no because you are empathetic to the pain they will endure. But some people do who may well be religious, they just don't have the brain wired in such a way to create a socially acceptable decision of the pain they will inflict. You may argue a christian would never do that due to the 10 commandments, however, there have been plenty of cases where people are defined by their local communities as being 'Good Christians', Ted Bundy for one example, until they are caught, prosecuted and identified as being either a psychopath or a narcissist. Then all of a sudden they are servants of the devil despite their previous social or religious status. Surely this is tangible proof that someone's actions and their believes are not always related. Take for example the Catholic priests sexually abusing young boys yet their faith is not in dispute.
The stonewalled refusal of some users to accept that people do not share their beliefs does demonstrate the cause of intolerance between the religious and non-religious communities. Yet were we to say that you are all lying to yourselves for believing a big bearded father figure creator of all fairytale character, people would claim us as being bigoted. As I do not believe in any divine or insidious beings yet am a morally secure person, I could argue that I don't believe there are true theists because they believe in something infinitely improbable as to be impossible.
[h=1]“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”[/h]
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Just to get us back on topic. There still seems to be a preconception that atheists still believe in one deity or another and are corrupt and without morals. This all seems to be from the inflexible constant that there must be a god and their must be a devil, and these constructs are held to be true as they were written in a book that was originally written by ancient jewish scribes, badly translated, edit and compiled by a Roman Republican Forum, then retranslated in a flexible manner at the command of an english king.
Moral Psychology Research Lab
On the subject of Morals, the moral absolute does not exist in any human being upon birth. It is learnt from the culture and environment within which it develops. Every moral decision results from a process of 'if this was done to me how would it feel?' and/or 'what are the possible positive and negative tribal outcomes from me performing a certain action'. You burn your finger on a hot oven hob. It causes you a pain which last for a long time. Do you now have the urge to put someone else's hand, who may be important to you, on the hob? Well mostly no because you are empathetic to the pain they will endure. But some people do who may well be religious, they just don't have the brain wired in such a way to create a socially acceptable decision of the pain they will inflict. You may argue a christian would never do that due to the 10 commandments, however, there have been plenty of cases where people are defined by their local communities as being 'Good Christians', Ted Bundy for one example, until they are caught, prosecuted and identified as being either a psychopath or a narcissist. Then all of a sudden they are servants of the devil despite their previous social or religious status. Surely this is tangible proof that someone's actions and their believes are not always related. Take for example the Catholic priests sexually abusing young boys yet their faith is not in dispute.
The stonewalled refusal of some users to accept that people do not share their beliefs does demonstrate the cause of intolerance between the religious and non-religious communities. Yet were we to say that you are all lying to yourselves for believing a big bearded father figure creator of all fairytale character, people would claim us as being bigoted. As I do not believe in any divine or insidious beings yet am a morally secure person, I could argue that I don't believe there are true theists because they believe in something infinitely improbable as to be impossible.
[h=1]“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”[/h]
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
No, I think everyone has a conscience but many choose to ignore it for a variety of reasons.
Why do we choose to ignore our conscience? Because we all want what we want, as Woody Allen would say.
As I already explained, a conscience is a moral guide from God; an idiot light that warns of potential moral hazards. If you're looking for me to anatomically or biologically describe where the conscience resides and how it functions I'm afraid you're going to be terribly disappointed with my answer.
What is you definition of a conscience? Do you even believe it exists? If so, do you believe all life forms have one or just humans?
I am glad that you can see that. That's good. Not all sent messages were intended by their sender. The human heart and human motives are difficult to discern fully (even our own hearts and motives. See Jeremiah 17:9).
The most common matter in the universe is hydrogen and helium plasma or ions. Many of these ions may have originated at the "big bang" or equivalent event at the beginning of the universe. Most of the positive and negative ions have remained separate and have never come together to form atoms. Fortunately, plasma is transparent and this allows us to see deeper into the universe than would be possible otherwise. It is only when the positive and negative ions find each other and combine into atoms that matter loses its transparency and interstellar gas clouds begin to form. Ions are subject to magnetic forces in ways that atoms are not.
Magnetic forces are much more powerful than gravitational forces. Thus, magnetism and not gravity is the natural force responsible for many of the coalesced structures that we see in the universe such as spiral galaxies. Around 77% of the observed galaxies in the universe are spiral galaxies.
It is basic science that matter can exist as solids, liquids, gases or plasma. However, as a school child, I was taught only the first three (solids, liquids and gases). Does acknowledgment of plasma continue to be shunned by conventional science?
Hydrogen and helium are the first two elements and the most simple elements on the periodic table. Hydrogen and helium are the most common elements in the universe and the easiest atoms to form when plasma ions come together.
It is estimated that much more than 99 percent of matter in the universe exists as hydrogen and helium in plasma form. Examples include stars, nebulae, and interstellar ions.
Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of the six elements oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. All of these elements are larger and heavier than hydrogen and helium, the most common elements in the universe.
Who has the confused science?
The most common matter in the universe is hydrogen and helium plasma or ions. Many of these ions may have originated at the "big bang" or equivalent event at the beginning of the universe. Most of the positive and negative ions have remained separate and have never come together to form atoms. Fortunately, plasma is transparent and this allows us to see deeper into the universe than would be possible otherwise. It is only when the positive and negative ions find each other and combine into atoms that matter loses its transparency and interstellar gas clouds begin to form. Ions are subject to magnetic forces in ways that atoms are not.
Magnetic forces are much more powerful than gravitational forces. Thus, magnetism and not gravity is the natural force responsible for many of the coalesced structures that we see in the universe such as spiral galaxies. Around 77% of the observed galaxies in the universe are spiral galaxies.
It is basic science that matter can exist as solids, liquids, gases or plasma. However, as a school child, I was taught only the first three (solids, liquids and gases). Does acknowledgment of plasma continue to be shunned by conventional science?
Hydrogen and helium are the first two elements and the most simple elements on the periodic table. Hydrogen and helium are the most common elements in the universe and the easiest atoms to form when plasma ions come together.
It is estimated that much more than 99 percent of matter in the universe exists as hydrogen and helium in plasma form. Examples include stars, nebulae, and interstellar ions.
Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of the six elements oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. All of these elements are larger and heavier than hydrogen and helium, the most common elements in the universe.
Who has the confused science?
No, I think everyone has a conscience but many choose to ignore it for a variety of reasons.
Why do we choose to ignore our conscience? Because we all want what we want, as Woody Allen would say.
As I already explained, a conscience is a moral guide from God; an idiot light that warns of potential moral hazards. If you're looking for me to anatomically or biologically describe where the conscience resides and how it functions I'm afraid you're going to be terribly disappointed with my answer.
What is you definition of a conscience? Do you even believe it exists? If so, do you believe all life forms have one or just humans?
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
So much for letting your conscience be your guide.
Having been a pet owner for many years I can say that animals are capable of a wide range of emotions: sadness, happiness, anger etc but I can't say that they appear to know right from wrong. At times they appear to look guilty when they get caught doing something they've been trained not to do but I think that's just the Pavlov response in reverse. I've never seen a dog look guilty for stealing another dog's treats though.
Phil, I am sorry to say it looks as though you have not kept up with advances in science. Astrophysicists proved forty or fifty years ago that all the elements in the universe, aside from hydrogen, were formed in high mass stars. The lyrics of the Joni Mitchell song Woodstock, is based upon this finding: “We are stardust, billion year old carbon...We are golden”. Joni Mitchell, myself, and many others had heard the scientific message. I am surprised it missed you. The truth is out there.
I quite agree, which is why I turn to science for my understanding of the world.
I quite agree, which is why I turn to science for my understanding of the world.