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And all are free to make the choice, so be it, for God will have given us all the chance to consciously believe or not in him, and then we all shall stand at the judgment seat of Christ the passover lamb to all that beleive. there at that time no man will have an excuse in unbelief, even if they try to have one at that time
It just is what it is, today I choose belief and trust to do what is right to my fellow man, in love to all as Noah did and God was well pleased in this and gave Noah his righteousness to use correctly, while all those that perished in that time, only thoughts were how can I survive not caring if they stepped on the others that were not in their group, and if one rebelled in their group they killed them
No wonder why God said he regretted making mankind, when all they did was steal, kill ,and destroy each other, as unfortunately still goes on today with supposed Christians that are not, that ware just playing Church to get their selfish ways filled for here and now
Harming and has harmed Christianity, the reason there are atheists. And not from God from people that claim they know God and are still hateful to those that do not agree with them, showing they do not know God as Merciful. Claimed they have received the Mercy and have not recieved it, showing it by their fruits of condemnation to others that do not agree with them.
God is a Merciful God people. We as people are not, not in the flesh we all are originally born with we are not Merciful to all.
God is and has shown this through Son to all, The only choice left is to believe God or not, forget what others say or do, that is not God
God simply and plainly just love us all, get that as a basis and be set free to love as God does per 1Cor. 13:4-13
Yes, thank you to keep me aware of my own flesh that is not redeemed yet, thank you
Did something or someone create all this around us, even if one chooses the big bang theory, what behind that caused that.
The best we have is the Christ who came performed the miracles, went to his death for us to redeem us in his Father's sight to give us what we all lack at physical birth, and that is life in the Spirit of God
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
No actually Mercy when it is received, Mercy we are to give
See this parable
Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Luke 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
[h=3]Matthew 18:23-35[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. [SUP]28 [/SUP]But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. [SUP]31 [/SUP]So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: [SUP]33 [/SUP]shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? [SUP]34 [/SUP]And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [SUP]35 [/SUP]So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
Eighteenth and 19th century scientists often saw it as their task to understand and unravel the mysteries of the creation. God might not have invited us in scripture to puzzle things out, but we humans seem to possess a natural curiosity, all the same. If you believe in God then you must believe this inquisitiveness came from him, yes? I would hate to think that belief in God was being used as an excuse not to explore the boundaries of the universe. If God created the universe I prefer to think it was through an intricate understanding of how things work, not through magic, although a very advanced technology might look like magic to us. If, for example, life on Earth arose through magic then it is unlikely we will ever find a scientific explanation; on the other hand if God created life as we know it through his unlimited understanding of the function of matter, then perhaps we might also one day fully comprehend. You would have us end that search?
You stated that "all through out the Bible he calls us to have Faith". Coupling that with the proclamation that He never tells us to go and figure things out for ourselves, as you say, suggests to me you may actually be opposed to some forms scientific inquiry.
Your thoughts?
Thanks for this post, it is another way to see at it. No was not saying to abandon the search to truth. We are born with the curiosity to truth and from birth on many of us are spoiled not all. Either way we are deceived in the flesh birth, and we know we need something more than what we have physically as if there is hole in our hearts where we are not whole
Like a vacuum that needs filled, and not of trash as what is mostly professed.
God is love beyond our Human understanding it is easy to love those that love us
[h=3]Luke 6:32[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
nl said:
So you believe scientific inquiry is a threat to faith; then Bill Nye's assertion in the recent debate, that the spread of faith threatens science, is accurate.
No, it says, "There are things hidden, and they belong to the Lord our God...." It doesn't say they will remain hidden.nl said:
"It is God who moves the mountains, giving them no rest,
turning them over in his wrath...." (Job 29:5)
Job may find this a mystery, but I don't. Have you ever noticed that you can now answer, because of science, a number of the questions God fires at Job? Have you also noticed that the phrasing of some questions only points to the ignorance of the human author of Job, who is taking it upon himself to speak on behalf of God?
It doesn't say that they will not remain hidden.
"...Secret things belong [present tense] unto the LORD our God...but those things which are revealed [past tense] belong to use and to our children for ever...that we may do [present tense] all the words..."
v.29 "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."
Points:
- There are secret things that belong unto God which He has chosen not to reveal.
- Those things which God has chosen to reveal should be owned and obeyed by us and our children.
- God is bigger and smarter than us and always will be. We must simply accept this. “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)
- "...That we may do all the words of this law". God’s revelation must matter to us. He has not spoken to us merely to satisfy our curiosity about spiritual things. He has spoken to us to affect the way we live. If we are only hearers of the word, and not doers also, then we have not really believed His Word.
P
Proto
Guest
All are born knowing the truth and power of God. All. Children of all races, genders, and origins.
Then some bury the truth in unrighteousness.
Atheists, be their own words, refuse the claim that there is a God.
The 'smart' ones at any rate say they it isn't that they don't believe in God, they just don't believe the claims that one exists.
I have have debates, at length, with more atheists than I care to count...
...the one thing I note about all of them is that they just can't accept what the bible teaches.
I never quote scripture with them, because that is what they use to fuel their points...
So, you have to be able to logically explain God. Explain Jesus.
I don't agree with atheists, and I wish all of man-kind would accept the one true God... but I respect the enemy, which in this case is blindness... because it is a challenge, like all others, that God can help you overcome.
Yes, there are atheists... they do not believe in any higher power.
They believe that they are alone.
They have faith that God isn't real.
...and just as some truly believe in false idols... some believe in none.
Thank you for this thought provoking topic
Then some bury the truth in unrighteousness.
Atheists, be their own words, refuse the claim that there is a God.
The 'smart' ones at any rate say they it isn't that they don't believe in God, they just don't believe the claims that one exists.
I have have debates, at length, with more atheists than I care to count...
...the one thing I note about all of them is that they just can't accept what the bible teaches.
I never quote scripture with them, because that is what they use to fuel their points...
So, you have to be able to logically explain God. Explain Jesus.
I don't agree with atheists, and I wish all of man-kind would accept the one true God... but I respect the enemy, which in this case is blindness... because it is a challenge, like all others, that God can help you overcome.
Yes, there are atheists... they do not believe in any higher power.
They believe that they are alone.
They have faith that God isn't real.
...and just as some truly believe in false idols... some believe in none.
Thank you for this thought provoking topic
Science has been known at times to steer away a priori from any evidence or reasoning that leads towards God. Science is not a threat to honest faith. Science has been the one to feel insecure and threatened.
Cycel has studied Deuteronomy and Job. Nice!
Scripture text taken from Job 38-40 (New American Standard Bible)
Chapter 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,
2 “Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
[[Who is Job to demand answers from Almighty God?]]
3 “Now gird up your loins like a man,
And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!
[[Job is put to the challenge to see if he can instruct God.]]
4 “Where were you when I laid thefoundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
[[Job wasn't around when the earth was established and neither were scientists.]]
5 Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
[[Science has now measured the earth's surface but there is much about the interior of the earth that remains unknown.] ]
6 “On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
[[Science knows nothing about this.]]
8 “Or who enclosed the sea with doors
When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb;
9 When I made a cloud its garment
And thick darkness its swaddling band,
10 And I placed boundaries on it
And set a bolt and doors,
11 And I said, ‘Thus far you shall come, but no farther;
And here shall your proud waves stop’?
[[Science doesn't have these answers nor even fully understand the questions.]]
12 “Have you ever in your life commanded the morning,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 “It is changed like clay under the seal;
And they stand forth like a garment.
15 “From the wicked their light is withheld,
And the uplifted arm is broken.
[[Science has never controlled a morning as described in v.12-13]]
16 “Have you entered into the springs of these
Or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 “Have the gates of death been revealed to you,
Or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?
18 “Have you understood the expanse of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.
[[Science may have a few answers here but not all the answers.]]
19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?
And darkness, where is its place,
20 That you may take it to its territory
And that you may discern the paths to its home?
21 “You know, for you were born then,
And the number of your days is great!
22 “Have you entered the storehouses of thesnow,
Or have you seen the storehouses ofthe hail,
23 Which I have reserved for the time ofdistress,
For the day of war and battle?
[[Again, does Science even understand the question?]]
24 “Where is the way that the light is divided,
Or the east wind scattered on the earth?
[[Again, Science has obtained some understanding of spectrums of light and some understanding of wind but much more remains to be learned.]]
25 “Who has cleft a channel for the flood,
Or a way for the thunderbolt,
26 To bring rain on a land without people,
On a desert without a man in it,
27 To satisfy the waste and desolate land
And to make the seeds of grass to sprout?
[[Science has no significant level of control over rain and probably none over lightning.]]
28 “Has the rain a father?
Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 “From whose womb has come the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who has givenit birth?
30 “Water becomes hard like stone,
And the surface of the deep is imprisoned.
[[These questions and statements are hard to understand and harder to answer]]
31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades,
Or loose the cords of Orion?
32 “Can you lead forth a constellation inits season,
And guide the Bear with her satellites?
33 “Do you know the ordinances of the heavens,
Or fix their rule over the earth?
[[Science has no control over the stars and constellations. Stars and constellations are part of the heavens that God made (Genesis 1:1)]]
34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
So that an abundance of water will cover you?
35 “Can you send forth lightnings that they may go
And say to you, ‘Here we are’?
36 “Who has put wisdom in the innermost being
Or given understanding to the mind?
[[Science can't do this yet.]]
37 “Who can count the clouds by wisdom,
Or tip the water jars of the heavens,
38 When the dust hardens into a mass
And the clods stick together?
[[Under development…not yet achieved.]]
39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they crouch in their dens
And lie in wait in their lair?
41 “Who prepares for the raven its nourishment
When its young cry to God
And wander about without food?
[[God has greater powers than Science to feed and manage wildlife.]]
Chapter 39
1 “Do you know the time the mountain goats give birth?
Do you observe the calving of the deer?
2 “Can you count the months they fulfill,
Or do you know the time they give birth?
3 “They kneel down, they bring forth their young,
They get rid of their labor pains.
4 “Their offspring become strong, they grow up in the open field;
They leave and do not return to them.
[[Science has studied nature and creatures and made many discoveries but other discoveries remain to be found.]]
5 “Who sent out the wild donkey free?
And who loosed the bonds of the swift donkey,
6 To whom I gave the wilderness for a home
And the salt land for his dwelling place?
[[Who?]]
7 “He scorns the tumult of the city,
The shoutings of the driver he does not hear.
8 “He explores the mountains for his pasture
And searches after every green thing.
9 “Will the wild ox consent to serve you,
Or will he spend the night at your manger?
10 “Can you bind the wild ox in a furrow with ropes,
Or will he harrow the valleys after you?
11 “Will you trust him because his strength is great
And leave your labor to him?
12 “Will you have faith in him that he will return your grain
And gather it from your threshing floor?
[[Did you know all this already? Can you do all this already? Yes, people can do some this. ]]
13 “The ostriches’ wings flap joyously
With the pinion and plumage of love,
14 For she abandons her eggs to the earth
And warms them in the dust,
15 And she forgets that a foot may crush them,
Or that a wild beast may trample them.
16 “She treats her young cruelly, as if they were not hers;
Though her labor be in vain, she is unconcerned;
17 Because God has made her forget wisdom,
And has not given her a share of understanding.
18 “When she lifts herself on high,
She laughs at the horse and his rider.
[[Have you trained an ostrich and learned all this?]]
19 “Do you give the horse his might?
Do you clothe his neck with a mane?
20 “Do you make him leap like the locust?
His majestic snorting is terrible.
21 “He paws in the valley, and rejoices in his strength;
He goes out to meet the weapons.
22 “He laughs at fear and is not dismayed;
And he does not turn back from the sword.
23 “The quiver rattles against him,
The flashing spear and javelin.
24 “With shaking and rage he races over the ground,
And he does not stand still at the voice of the trumpet.
25 “As often as the trumpet sounds he says,‘Aha!’
And he scents the battle from afar,
And the thunder of the captains and the war cry.
[[Do you?]]
26 “Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars,
Stretching his wings toward the south?
27 “Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up
And makes his nest on high?
28 “On the cliff he dwells and lodges,
Upon the rocky crag, an inaccessible place.
29 “From there he spies out food;
His eyes see it from afar.
30 “His young ones also suck up blood;
And where the slain are, there is he.”
[[Have you trained a hawk on how to fly?]]
Chapter 40
1 Then the LORD said to Job,
2 “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
[[Who wants to find fault and contend with the Almighty in a fight? Not I.]]
New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (Job 38–40:2). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
No I absolutely don't believe there's a supreme being And I serve no god whatsoever. What is so difficult to understand.
And what Cycel touched on earlier is very Important. If the bible was inspired by an all knowing all seeing all powerful all encompassing being, why does it takes years and years of study to grasp?
Yet when you realise it was written by primitive farmers who's most advanced machinery was a wheelbarrow and written with no knowledge of the universe then it's easily understood in seconds.
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"Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life."
John 5:12
It's really not that complex, but I know where you're coming from. It took me years to fully grasp the implications of that simple sentence. And I grew up in a Christian household! So from an atheist's point of view I can only imagine how ridiculous it all must sound.
P
phil112
Guest
Whether you want to believe it or not, if you don't serve God, you serve satan.
Years and years of study to grasp? Without the Holy Ghost no one can "grasp" it. You have been given everything you have. God gave you life and an opportunity to be with Him in heaven....you want Him to simply hand heaven to you? That is quite an entitlement attitude you have there. Tell me, do you call the grocer and tell him what you want and wait for him to bring it to you? Why not? You pay for that, yet when something this marvelous is given to you, you won't get off you rearend and go get it.
As for the "primitive farmers" statement, that was ludicrous. You want somebody in a man made vehicle of modernization to bring you the word? God's ways are not our ways. A shame God doesn't fit your little mental picture of Him, huh?
I'm not entitled to heaven, I don't even believe it exists and I have no mental picture of god because I don't believe he exists either... And guess what, I don't serve satan cos he doesn't exist either!
I believe the world is a very real place and not an episode of dungeons and dragons.
If your going to toss out a word salad, at least try and make it somewhat fit in with what your replying to cos you seemed to ignore everything I said prior.
I believe the world is a very real place and not an episode of dungeons and dragons.
If your going to toss out a word salad, at least try and make it somewhat fit in with what your replying to cos you seemed to ignore everything I said prior.
Denying the existence of God (or anything) does not negate the existence of God (or anything).