Western Christianity conflicts with Classical Indian Dance and Music

[Rachel20]

Have you been trained/watched any classical dance/musical format? Most of the dance forms, from bharatnatyam to kuchipudi, enact scenes from Hindu mythology, with some worship of Hindu gods.
Even, kathak, has influences from Sufi and Muslim ideas through the Mughal and Persian eras.

The dances are very beautiful. It is part of our rich and diverse culture, and the thought, the ideas and the philosophy presented through them is very deep. Every hand gesture, every movement sometimes carries a meaning.
It is a testament to our vibrant history.

Do you think its okay for a Christian to participate and learn these art forms?

Does being a Christian mean having to sacrifice the culture of our native land? Does Christianity feel westernized to you?

 

[1still_waters]

This is a major debate in missions classes.
How far can Christians adapt to a given culture?

One speaker I heard said that if western Christians are going to demand wiping away of all cultural traditions, then westerners should think about getting rid of using flowers at funerals, or rice at weddings.

 

[sanglina]

Have you been trained/watched any classical dance/musical format? Most of the dance forms, from bharatnatyam to kuchipudi, enact scenes from Hindu mythology, with some worship of Hindu gods.
Even, kathak, has influences from Sufi and Muslim ideas through the Mughal and Persian eras.

The dances are very beautiful. It is part of our rich and diverse culture, and the thought, the ideas and the philosophy presented through them is very deep. Every hand gesture, every movement sometimes carries a meaning.
It is a testament to our vibrant history.

Do you think its okay for a Christian to participate and learn these art forms?

Does being a Christian mean having to sacrifice the culture of our native land? Does Christianity feel westernized to you?

Short answer: No.

Reason: Christianity is the only religion I knew since birth and I grew up listening to the teaching of the Bible at home, in my local Church, in my neighbourhood (family worship) and in the hostels (I have always studied in Christian Institutes till high school and lived in Christian hostels till graduation days). In my home town also, there is no other religion practiced other than Christianity. Most of my close friends are also Christians only, so Christianity has never feel foreign or Westernized to me.

If the "culture of our native land" is not Biblical, then I am all for doing it away though I am also all for preserving those culture that does not conflict with the Biblical teaching. By the way, the culture in the Bible is not so Westernized as you might think. In fact, I find many similarities between some of the OT culture and my culture and so, yeah, Christianity does not feel strange to me.


In all honesty, kathak, kuchi, etc, etc. feels more foreign to me than Christianity. I have never watched any of it full length and have no idea about the story behind it either. But if it includes some form of worshiping god other than the God of the Bible, then I guess, it would amount to idolatry. May be, the dance can be modified by excluding the parts/scenes that involves worshiping Hindu gods.

 

[sanglina]

Just one more thing-

Also being a practicing Christian does not necessary mean we have to follow the 'lifestyle' of the Western Christians. They have their own culture as we have ours. And as long our culture does not conflict with the Biblical teaching, then I don't think there's any reason to give it up.

 

[Rachel20]

Short answer: No.

Reason: Christianity is the only religion I knew since birth and I grew up listening to the teaching of the Bible at home, in my local Church, in my neighbourhood (family worship) and in the hostels (I have always studied in Christian Institutes till high school and lived in Christian hostels till graduation days). In my home town also, there is no other religion practiced other than Christianity. Most of my close friends are also Christians only, so Christianity has never feel foreign or Westernized to me.

If the "culture of our native land" is not Biblical, then I am all for doing it away though I am also all for preserving those culture that does not conflict with the Biblical teaching. By the way, the culture in the Bible is not so Westernized as you might think. In fact, I find many similarities between some of the OT culture and my culture and so, yeah, Christianity does not feel strange to me.


In all honesty, kathak, kuchi, etc, etc. feels more foreign to me than Christianity. I have never watched any of it full length and have no idea about the story behind it either. But if it includes some form of worshiping god other than the God of the Bible, then I guess, it would amount to idolatry. May be, the dance can be modified by excluding the parts/scenes that involves worshiping Hindu gods.

Well maybe I should have put it across in a elaborate manner.

Christianity in India feels more of a counter-culture.
For example in weddings, many Christian Indian women are discarding wearing traditional Indian garbs for a white gown.
They don't wear the jewellery that other Indian women wear to signify being married. In fact some Christian women don't even wear bindis.

These are all western traditions, that are not Biblical standards. It feels assimilated into Christianity. Even church worship and practises seem to be similar to that of the West.

Being amongst Hindus, I feel that our discarding our culture or respect of it, makes them resentful of us.

I understand that the problem is also, that a lot of these traditions stems from idolatory and stuff that we're clearly not supposed to do.

It's not easy to modify centuries old dance practises which are dominated by Hindus. There are hardly any Christians in these fields.

But I think it would be so much better, if Christians were able to utilize all these different ideas and traditions, to demonstrate their talents and showcase our Lord to unbelievers in a manner that makes sense to them.

Jesus is for India too!

And on a side note - Manipur has a large population of Indian Christians . It's a beautiful place.

 

[Desdichado]

Still_Waters makes a brilliant point.Western Christians have to know that so many basic elements of our own culture happen to have roots outside the Bible.

How we name our months, days, planets, etc. The fact we pin oak leaf clusters to uniforms. The fact we knock on doors with our fists. The days our holidays happen to fall on.

The Old Testament councils us on our approach to worship of other gods (just don't) and the lack of wisdom in wantonly embracing pluralism like a virtue and not a reality. Our beloved New Testament has little to say on the issue other than a bit about circumcision here and Peter being able to eat a bird there.

I conclude then that it is one of those stronger-brother, weaker-brother issues in a larger cultural context. God gives us liberty here. The question should always be this: is it expression and tradition or actual worship rendered to demons? Do the movements of the dances indicate something God would not like us to do? Etc.

Judgement on this cannot be made unless you truly know the native culture and the meaning of things. I do not exhaustively know Indian dances, table customs, etc, so I can't make any judgments. I trust Rachel20 already has made pretty sound ones in that regard.

There are obvious elements of culture people have to give away. In the West that meant nobody could be sacrificed to Odin (it made those annual parties in Uppsala far less interesting). In the East it meant giving up the practice of Sati.

Mystic chords of memory though. The sort that give an identity to a tribe, tongue, and nation should not be wantonly discarded. They are special in that they have been built over centuries and bind people to those around them, the dead before them, and the people they will teach these things to after birth.

The West would be better off if it remembered to preserve these things on occasion. That includes gun-ownership in the United States

(Forgive me, Rachel. I couldn't resist that little jab at the end.)

 

[faroukfarouk]

Just one more thing-

Also being a practicing Christian does not necessary mean we have to follow the 'lifestyle' of the Western Christians. They have their own culture as we have ours. And as long our culture does not conflict with the Biblical teaching, then I don't think there's any reason to give it up.

Doctrine is very important.

It's interesting that although previously the nose stud was formerly regarded as something associated with Indian women (and it still is), in the West many women are doing this now also. In fact, in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord is recorded as symbolically giving a nose ring to Zion.

 

[ji]

Have you been trained/watched any classical dance/musical format? Most of the dance forms, from bharatnatyam to kuchipudi, enact scenes from Hindu mythology, with some worship of Hindu gods.
Even, kathak, has influences from Sufi and Muslim ideas through the Mughal and Persian eras.

The dances are very beautiful. It is part of our rich and diverse culture, and the thought, the ideas and the philosophy presented through them is very deep. Every hand gesture, every movement sometimes carries a meaning.
It is a testament to our vibrant history.

Do you think its okay for a Christian to participate and learn these art forms?

Does being a Christian mean having to sacrifice the culture of our native land? Does Christianity feel westernized to you?

Glad you asked that question.
The answer is 'yes' and 'no'.
Yes,to the basic stretches and very simple actions to denote or express things.It is good to express the Love of God through Sound Art Form(And speaking of which,you can learn playing guitar or something,its uplifting if you have the passion).For that you need guidance from God.But i can help you with some core issues here.And that leads to why NOT to follow traditional art forms of any culture that has got nothing to do with Christianity.Be it from the past or present,including hip hop,ballet,drama(worldly),traditional art forms(be it Indian or any other culture) comes from satan.
The most common things to notice in all these art forms are actions/signs/symbols used to worship pagan gods/goddesses.In reality,it invites demonic/evil spirits to channel our body and use us as their vessels.This is the very very basic process behind all these so called beautiful art forms which are evil tools in disguise.If you think i am joking,research on the culture from which you are practicing/following the art form.The 'mudras' used in indian traditional dances are almost similar to illuminati symbols.Both are pagan.
But there are simple stretches in these art forms which you can use for good physique and sound mind.The best option and the recommend option(because in New Testament,there are only Commands of Love and not you must do or you will die) is to kneel down and Pray to God.It helps physically a lot.The more time you learn to stretch your hand up and Pray,your spine becomes more stronger,blood flow increases to all parts of your body(not kidding,except hands when they are up).Overall,it helps the blood flow and is a perfect excercise for the body,soul and mind.God has given us the best option to exercise when we humbly kneel down and Pray,by stretching forth our hands.Free of all symbolism.
Also,in indian traditional art form like bharathnatyam and all,the dance begins with worshiping pagan gods/goddesses.That's how it starts.Similarly all worldly art forms have negative impact.You can study on them if you want and verify what i said.

It's the same for all kinds of martial arts.Some says it's for self discipline.But the energy and stamina that a person attains through these combat skills demonizes them.It's an abomination.Now if you study carefully about these topics(mostly not googling) by talking with professionals and history of these art forms,you will come to conclusion why Christians forsake such things.
Also getting too much embraced in world history and studying about cultures and all itself; can entice you.And if you peek into the abyss for longer time,you will become the abyss.That's the nature of dark and evil forces,satan being their chief.
Learn to sing to God,Worship Him with all your Heart and you will be doing the most precious thing in life you can ever do.And that too free of hard work,everything given freely by the selfless Sacrifice of the Son of God.
God Bless

 

[faroukfarouk]

Glad you asked that question.
The answer is 'yes' and 'no'.
Yes,to the basic stretches and very simple actions to denote or express things.It is good to express the Love of God through Sound Art Form(And speaking of which,you can learn playing guitar or something,its uplifting if you have the passion).For that you need guidance from God.But i can help you with some core issues here.And that leads to why NOT to follow traditional art forms of any culture that has got nothing to do with Christianity.Be it from the past or present,including hip hop,ballet,drama(worldly),traditional art forms(be it Indian or any other culture) comes from satan.
The most common things to notice in all these art forms are actions/signs/symbols used to worship pagan gods/goddesses.In reality,it invites demonic/evil spirits to channel our body and use us as their vessels.This is the very very basic process behind all these so called beautiful art forms which are evil tools in disguise.If you think i am joking,research on the culture from which you are practicing/following the art form.The 'mudras' used in indian traditional dances are almost similar to illuminati symbols.Both are pagan.
But there are simple stretches in these art forms which you can use for good physique and sound mind.The best option and the recommend option(because in New Testament,there are only Commands of Love and not you must do or you will die) is to kneel down and Pray to God.It helps physically a lot.The more time you learn to stretch your hand up and Pray,your spine becomes more stronger,blood flow increases to all parts of your body(not kidding,except hands when they are up).Overall,it helps the blood flow and is a perfect excercise for the body,soul and mind.God has given us the best option to exercise when we humbly kneel down and Pray,by stretching forth our hands.Free of all symbolism.
Also,in indian traditional art form like bharathnatyam and all,the dance begins with worshiping pagan gods/goddesses.That's how it starts.Similarly all worldly art forms have negative impact.You can study on them if you want and verify what i said.

It's the same for all kinds of martial arts.Some says it's for self discipline.But the energy and stamina that a person attains through these combat skills demonizes them.It's an abomination.Now if you study carefully about these topics(mostly not googling) by talking with professionals and history of these art forms,you will come to conclusion why Christians forsake such things.
Also getting too much embraced in world history and studying about cultures and all itself; can entice you.And if you peek into the abyss for longer time,you will become the abyss.That's the nature of dark and evil forces,satan being their chief.
Learn to sing to God,Worship Him with all your Heart and you will be doing the most precious thing in life you can ever do.And that too free of hard work,everything given freely by the selfless Sacrifice of the Son of God.
God Bless

Hi there; yes you have some good points. It's important to avoid appearing to acknowledge unbiblical doctrine.

I do think that no one is truly culture-free.

A lot of Christians in the West just assume that they are not influenced by tradition whereas to eastern believers in the Lord Jesus they clearly are.

 

[ji]

Learn to play sitar(veena),indian flute,tabala,mirdangam,etc...Filter out an art form that doesn't exhibit mixed dance and also gives importance to Christian messages(very clear) through simple actions and displays.You have no idea how much Indian instruments can ignite worship many times fold.These instruments are/were made for devotion.It will change your life and your Love to God will become more stronger.
Also be in Prayer(constantly) when you follow some new art form that can spread Gospel in a healthy way(free of any lustful act,confusion,wrong agenda).If you feel God is blocking you from doing it when you have a constant Prayer Life,confirm it and throw it away.Never take it again.But you can still follow the musical instruments like the ones i mentioned above.Worship will take an advanced level,and you will be inflammable in Holy Spirit at any moment because of the remembrance of such beautiful worship atmosphere.
Holy Bible is our reference and catalog on how to live on earth.And throughout the Holy Scripture we find only two things,that are used as art and essential forms to communicate with God.It's Prayer and Worship.From Genesis to Revelation it is reflected.
Get close to God.Be on His Fire.

 

[ji]

Hi there; yes you have some good points. It's important to avoid appearing to acknowledge unbiblical doctrine.

I do think that no one is truly culture-free.

A lot of Christians in the West just assume that they are not influenced by tradition whereas to eastern believers in the Lord Jesus they clearly are.

Traditions are so mixed in our cultures is a wrong thought.It's just simple confusions.
For that,we can all make a difference when we follow Christ more.We've been called and commissioned to become like the image of Christ.That is our sole mission.When we do that,many people will become like 'we' and Light of God spreads more.Where light comes in,darkness goes.When God steps in,confusion goes.Because satan flees.So all these confusions of what to follow and what not to follow comes down to Holy Scripture and how much willing i am to be used by God for his Revelation even today.
Worldly art forms,wherever it is from, stays separated from God.The more we are in God,the more we are filtered from world.It's all about how much i am willing.World can give me venom gt or supersonic jet,or a anti-gravity satanic machine.It has limits.But when Holy Spirit starts pouring in,when we kneel down before God,takes us to dimensions beyond in the twinkle of an eye.It's a Royal Classification.More we stay on God,more comforts and practices of this world are filtered away from us.It's very simple.Stay in God,confusions will be no more.Traditional practices will be no more.What that is left in a person then is Holy Spirit and our struggles to fully obey God.Nothing else remains because nothing can stand against God without His will.And we stand,because we are His children 2 Corinth 6:18 KJV.
It's like Jesus taking us all like a bunch of babies grouped together.What classification?What tradition?What nationality?..nothing else remains in that Love.Its Him and us.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Traditions are so mixed in our cultures is a wrong thought.It's just simple confusions.
For that,we can all make a difference when we follow Christ more.We've been called and commissioned to become like the image of Christ.That is our sole mission.When we do that,many people will become like 'we' and Light of God spreads more.Where light comes in,darkness goes.When God steps in,confusion goes.Because satan flees.So all these confusions of what to follow and what not to follow comes down to Holy Scripture and how much willing i am to be used by God for his Revelation even today.
Worldly art forms,wherever it is from, stays separated from God.The more we are in God,the more we are filtered from world.It's all about how much i am willing.World can give me venom gt or supersonic jet,or a anti-gravity satanic machine.It has limits.But when Holy Spirit starts pouring in,when we kneel down before God,takes us to dimensions beyond in the twinkle of an eye.It's a Royal Classification.More we stay on God,more comforts and practices of this world are filtered away from us.It's very simple.Stay in God,confusions will be no more.Traditional practices will be no more.What that is left in a person then is Holy Spirit and our struggles to fully obey God.Nothing else remains because nothing can stand against God without His will.And we stand,because we are His children 2 Corinth 6:18 KJV.
It's like Jesus taking us all like a bunch of babies grouped together.What classification?What tradition?What nationality?..nothing else remains in that Love.Its Him and us.

Some influences are bad; some of them are not; there are bad traditions, good traditions and indifferent traditions.

Romans 14 and the truth of Christian liberty are significant in areas where there is no direct link to doctrine.

An example: in West it used to be that women only would pierce their ears, but now many men and boys do also. Some Christian parents are okay for their sons to do it, some are not: in the end it's subjective and personal, and not necessarily a doctrinally-linked thing.

Blessings.

 

[sanglina]

Well maybe I should have put it across in a elaborate manner.

Christianity in India feels more of a counter-culture.
For example in weddings, many Christian Indian women are discarding wearing traditional Indian garbs for a white gown.
They don't wear the jewellery that other Indian women wear to signify being married. In fact some Christian women don't even wear bindis.

These are all western traditions, that are not Biblical standards. It feels assimilated into Christianity. Even church worship and practises seem to be similar to that of the West.

Being amongst Hindus, I feel that our discarding our culture or respect of it, makes them resentful of us.

I understand that the problem is also, that a lot of these traditions stems from idolatory and stuff that we're clearly not supposed to do.

It's not easy to modify centuries old dance practises which are dominated by Hindus. There are hardly any Christians in these fields.

But I think it would be so much better, if Christians were able to utilize all these different ideas and traditions, to demonstrate their talents and showcase our Lord to unbelievers in a manner that makes sense to them.

Jesus is for India too!

And on a side note - Manipur has a large population of Indian Christians . It's a beautiful place.

Hi Rachel20,


The reason why mainland Indian Christian women would not wear bindi, mangalsutra, and other jewellery might probably be more to do with the fact that all these jewellery have significant meanings attached to it and the meanings are mostly rooted in superstitious beliefs.

Regarding wearing wedding gown, I don't see anything wrong if an 'Indian' Christian women chooses to marry in saree/lehenga and sherwani (for men). I agree with you that wedding gowns are not biblical standard.

Related to the issue, several years back, there was a huge debate about it in my hometown and the leaders came up with a proposal to give both the bride and groom to opt for either our traditional wedding attire or the western attire. The idea was to promote our culture as the elders feel that the youngsters were losing out on their culture. Here is a sample of the traditional wedding dress (I don't have the men's wear with me now) designed for use during Christian wedding (sadly, it has not gained popularity yet)-


Now, would you say (after seeing the picture) the dress is unbiblical if one chooses to opt for that instead of the popular wedding gown? I don't think so. Biblical discernment is needed for what to discard or promote in a culture.

Having said that, before the advent of Christianity into our Naga society, there was no Christian wedding and marriages were either by elopement, or by service (like how OT patriarch Isaac obtained his bride Rebekah), or by mutual consent. So, Christian wedding in itself was new and came into practice only after the advent of Christianity.

PS: By the way, thank you for the compliment about my state! The same can be said of your city Bangalore.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Hi Rachel20,


The reason why mainland Indian Christian women would not wear bindi, mangalsutra, and other jewellery might probably be more to do with the fact that all these jewellery have significant meanings attached to it and the meanings are mostly rooted in superstitious beliefs.

Regarding wearing wedding gown, I don't see anything wrong if an 'Indian' Christian women chooses to marry in saree/lehenga and sherwani (for men).

Having said that, before the advent of Christianity into our Naga society, there was no Christian wedding and marriages were either by elopement, or by service (like how OT patriarch Isaac obtained his bride Rebekah), or by mutual consent. So, Christian wedding in itself was new and came into practice only after the advent of Christianity. Related to the issue, several years back, there was a huge debate about it in my hometown and the leaders came up with a proposal to give both the bride and groom to opt for either our traditional wedding attire or the western attire. The idea was to promote our culture as the elders feel that the youngsters were losing out on their culture. Here is a sample of the traditional wedding dress (I don't have the men's wear with me now) designed for use during Christian wedding (sadly, it has not gained popularity yet)-
View attachment 72803

Now, would you say (after seeing the picture) the dress is unbiblical if one chooses to opt for that instead of the popular wedding gown? I don't think so. Biblical discernment is needed for what to discard or promote in a culture.

PS: By the way, thank you for the compliment about my state! The same can be said of your city Bangalore.

Is the bindi the mark in the forehead? or is this the pottu? (Sorry, I'm not Indian.)

Nice bridal picture, by the way.


Blessings.

 

[sanglina]

Doctrine is very important.

It's interesting that although previously the nose stud was formerly regarded as something associated with Indian women (and it still is), in the West many women are doing this now also. In fact, in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord is recorded as symbolically giving a nose ring to Zion.

I agree doctrine is very important but this was not about doctrinal issue. I was talking more in terms of 'lifestyle'.

 

[sanglina]

Is the bindi the mark in the forehead? or is this the pottu? (Sorry, I'm not Indian.)

Nice bridal picture, by the way.


Blessings.

Thanks you!

Yes, bindi is the red mark in the forehead.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I agree doctrine is very important but this was not about doctrinal issue. I was talking more in terms of 'lifestyle'.

So are you okay with the nose stud? for example.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thanks you!

Yes, bindi is the red mark in the forehead.

So are you okay with the bindi? for example.

 

[sanglina]

Both bindi and nose studs are not in my culture. So, I am neither familiar nor comfortable with it (regardless of it being sin or not) but thats my personal choice. For bindi, I think there's some superstitious belief attached to it (maybe an Indian from the mainland can help you with your question) but for nosestud, I don't know.

For my biblical view on cultural attire/jewellery, etc, I believe I have already stated my stand in my previous post.

 

[ji]

Some influences are bad; some of them are not; there are bad traditions, good traditions and indifferent traditions.

Romans 14 and the truth of Christian liberty are significant in areas where there is no direct link to doctrine.

An example: in West it used to be that women only would pierce their ears, but now many men and boys do also. Some Christian parents are okay for their sons to do it, some are not: in the end it's subjective and personal, and not necessarily a doctrinally-linked thing.

Blessings.

Uh..,you are wrong.You are mixing 'ok' traditions with life styles.Present world is getting dressed up for Judgement of God.Romans 14 KJV talks about acceptable practices and traditions that cannot be plucked out just like that.It says nothing about dressing up in weird manner.
Christians MUST(sorry,just to emphasis) behave.And if you think it's not so,then you are talking to one perfect disobedient example.I was a 'dude' dresser.Came to Christ,began to face the struggle,faced it for Jesus and changed a lot.I was born and brought up in India.Been outside India too.But now when i look back and look at me now,never was i part of this world except for some heart felt memories of friendly interactions especially in India.My Nation is not here.Yet to be revealed When Jesus returns.It has nothing of this world.
Dressing weird no matter in which tradition, is not Christian.
If i debate/reason for Christianity and dress modestly as much as i can,and my wife dress like a street rat doesn't make it ok.If i profess to be 'christian' and preach,and my wife knows i am not good in personal life and do things my way,and makes her cut her knees because of long hours of Prayer to change me,i am not struggling at all to be in God.Yes,i am a blasphemer then.If kids can dress up the way they want and say hillsong promotes it,doesn't make it Christian.
Christianity has no bondage with this world.But God shows Patience and Endurance so that we can be released from these kind of silly thoughts brought to us by the world,because we Pray less..
And if you are confused on what to follow and not to follow,start Praying to God more and ask God to give you thirst to read Holy Scripture.In course of time,everything will become clear.A Christian cannot have anything of this world dear to him/her than God,otherwise satan can claim.If you think it's impossible,then know that it is possible with God.That's why God has provided unlimited Grace for us in New Testament Period.You don't have sound Holy Scripture knowledge and practice.This is not to ridicule,but correcting you.Please take in a good way.
God Bless
If you have been ignorant about Godly Revelations,it's ok.God looks at heart,not outward appearance.But when you have been given guidance and you didn't check it with God,problem is with you.We shouldn't misunderstand God's Patience and Love as opportunities for our desired life.If it is so,then walk away and do it fully.Otherwise take the struggle to become better.