Dangers Of The False Messianic Movement

[Praus]

Allow a picture. You have selected Messianic as a threat while it could be said any named theology is, this is the entire issue. One of the myriad only should be of no concern, all should be.. I believe it was understandable as posted, now it should be clear, if not, I could rephrase. Yahweh light your way always, amen.

All are a concern, that's correct. Please start a thread anytime you like on any theology you like--I'll contribute what I can.

 

[zone]

I believe all denominations are false, there is only the body of Messiah and all else is falsehood.

nonsense.
Paul wrote to many churches. they all did.
Jesus addressed several.

they had different cultures and whatnot.
what matters is if they were believing the very same scriptures and putting them into practice.

this antichurch thing is the twin sister of the Christianity is pagan thing.
soon you'll be in Judaism....mark it down.

JESUS is His Name.

do you know Him?

 

[JaumeJ]

My posts have been specific on this theme.

All who call on the name of the Only Begotten Son of the Most High God, be it by His Greek transliterated name or His original name transliterated into English, or either of the two in any other language are my family, and they are the Body of Messiah in this age.

It is not a matter of any named theology in my esteem, it is believing the Word He has given to all mankind and acknowledging the faith of Abraham, that is the promises made to him and fulfilled in Yeshua. Yeshua is Lord, amen.

All are a concern, that's correct. Please start a thread anytime you like on any theology you like--I'll contribute what I can.

 

[loveme1]

nonsense.
Paul wrote to many churches. they all did.
Jesus addressed several.

they had different cultures and whatnot.
what matters is if they were believing the very same scriptures and putting them into practice.

this antichurch thing is the twin sister of the Christianity is pagan thing.
soon you'll be in Judaism....mark it down.

JESUS is His Name.

do you know Him?

Zone, you have made some wonderful points above. (in blue)


We could all sit here until Kingdom Come and debate this or that regarding different Practices of denominations.

The Common denominator is Yahshua /Jesus.

We each should be obeying His Testimony, His Commands.

Whether it be the Messianic Movement or the JW's laying commands of men upon us we should above all adhere to His Words.

 

[danschance]

So what is wrong with being a Christian?

Why do so many identify with being a Jew when it is no longer of any benefit? Jesus died on the cross and the gospel was spread to the gentiles shortly there after. I do have a talit and a mezuza. I do on occasion engage in a passover seder , but I never once have ever engaged in those things as a matter of law. If people mix Jewish law with Christian grace you will not enter into heaven, because you are cobbling things on to grace that were done away with.

There is a serious danger in playing games with Judaism and Christianity.

4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. Gal. 5:4-6

 

[loveme1]

So what is wrong with being a Christian?

Why do so many identify with being a Jew when it is no longer of any benefit? Jesus died on the cross and the gospel was spread to the gentiles shortly there after. I do have a talit and a mezuza. I do on occasion engage in a passover seder , but I never once have ever engaged in those things as a matter of law. If people mix Jewish law with Christian grace you will not enter into heaven, because you are cobbling things on to grace that were done away with.

There is a serious danger in playing games with Judaism and Christianity.

It is that many denominations identify with the Messiah, but have done with the New Testament what the Jews did with the Old Testament.

 

[chubbena]

Hi everyone. My name is Joshua. That's the name my mom gave me in the hospital...and for anyone who knows me personally my name is Joshua or Josh or JP.

I graduated from high school and got my first part-time job working at my dad's job. It was a clothing distribution company that had two levels: the white collar section on the upper floors for the executives and the blue collar section on the 1st floor for those who manufactured sample swatches and clothes. My dad was an exec, but I worked on the 1st floor cleaning up jpegs on the computer for the samples. They loved my work so much that I got a small raise and a cubicle on the upper floors.

My dad was introducing me around to everyone and as you can imagine not everyone remembered my name right off the bat. One such person knew my name began with a "J" but couldn't remember what it was...but being my new boss, she needed to call me over several times throughout the day. So she called me "James".

Not seeing any harm in it, and understanding she didn't really know me intimately, I walked over to her, smiled gentle and said "it's Josh". She said, "oh I"m sorry lol, but I need you to..." and went on telling me what she needed.

...The next day, she called me over again; "John!" I look up to see who she was talking to because I hadn't met any Johns who worked there but she was looking directly at me. I hurried over to her and again smiled and said "It's Josh". She smiled and continued to tell me what she needed from me.

...The next day, she called me over again "Jim!" I look up and walk over there, no longer as enthusiastic. Being 18 years old, I couldn't understand why she was having problems remembering my name. She was in her early 40s sharp as a tack. I was walking over to her preparing to gently correct her again, when suddenly one of her co-workers - visibly frustrated - said "JOSHUA! His name is JOSHUA! Why can't you call him by his name!?" She brushed it off smiling saying "oh he knows I was talking to him, don't you?" I managed a smile...but it was at that moment that I realized she no plans to call me by my God-given name...because she absolutely knew I would come when she called.

...The next day she calls me over again; "Jerry!" There were no Jerries on our floor.

I don't move one inch. I don't budge. I don't even look up. I purposely ignore her. "JERRY!!" I continue with my other work. A silence falls over the room as everyone gets quiet. I knew she was calling on me, but what was once innocent ignorance turned into painful disrespect. Mary didn't feel she needed to call me by my name (even though she clearly KNEW my real name), simply because she also KNEW I would come whenever she called on me. But it no longer mattered whether or not she was my boss; it didn't matter how emphatically she yelled a name that was meant for me. What mattered was that she KNEW my God-given name and refused to use it. She didn't even try to honor me; to give me that small token of basic respect that one person will give to even the least familiar of acquaintances. So I ignored her...and everyone else knew exactly what I was doing.

After what seemed like forever, the silence was broken with "Josh can you come here please?"

I calmly rise from my cubicle and walk over to her, no longer as soft with a smile. She says to me quietly with a smile, "you know I was calling you..." I didn't reply I just stared at her. She then told me what she needed from me. From then on she never called me by another name again.

----

All my childhood I knew Christ as "Jesus". Sunday after Sunday for years that was the name I had hear, read, spoke, and prayed to...But one day I decided to study. I decided to get to know the lord better than I did, and in studying I discovered that his God-given name was nowhere near the name Jesus; that even the letter "j" is only about 600 years old, and the "j's" sound is younger than that ("J" used to sound like a "y"). And so after learning his real name, if I continued calling him "Jesus" (to me) it would've been like Mary continuing to call me "Jerry" (or some other name). Sure it would take major effort to recondition my mouth to use his real name instead of "Jesus" but I asked myself, "would I expect any less effort from someone like Mary to give ME that respect? As small of a gesture as it is to call me by my God-given name?", ESPECIALLY when my real name is a closer form of his real name than "Jesus" is?

So for me it was a choice between my humility and my pride. He's not my subordinate who does MY bidding whenever I call. He's my MASTER who *I* serve. And even if he were my subordinate (like I was to Mary), should I honor him any less?

So that's why I honor his original name.

...and His (our) Father's name too. On a side note, Hebrew reads from right to left. I'm not sure if Hebrew speaking/reading folks have problem with words like "god" and "live".

 

[chubbena]

So what is wrong with being a Christian?

Why do so many identify with being a Jew when it is no longer of any benefit? Jesus died on the cross and the gospel was spread to the gentiles shortly there after. I do have a talit and a mezuza. I do on occasion engage in a passover seder , but I never once have ever engaged in those things as a matter of law. If people mix Jewish law with Christian grace you will not enter into heaven, because you are cobbling things on to grace that were done away with.

There is a serious danger in playing games with Judaism and Christianity.

The word "heaven" is not technically correct. The Bible says there will be a new heaven and a new earth and the saved will be in the new Jerusalem and that our Father will dwell with the saved there.
The OT told us there's one man who wanted to go up to heaven and he was the king of Babylon.

 

[Yahshua]

if a Spanish speaker called you by your name Joshua, and it sounded like this: Yo- swa, would you be offended?
the person is actually pronouncing your real name...not mistaking your name.

Good question. Not at all if they're *trying* to pronounce it correctly (no need to be perfect). Mispronouncing my name is a fault of their accent not their choice...they're doing their best. But if I said my name is Joshua and they refuse to even try to call me "Yo-swa" and instead say "no, your name will be 'Hey-zeus' or 'Gee-zuz'". That's pretty disrespectful to me, isn't it?

Here a better question...

The actor Gerard De Pardieu's name is pronounced "jerrard de-par-doo". Would it be acceptable to call him "Gerald by God's [will]"...because such is the original German version of his name (spoken in English)? If you met him would you go up to him and call him Gerald? And if he corrected you and said "non, iss Jerrard." would you say "well the German of your name is Gerald, so I don't see anything wrong with calling your Gerald."?

You see how I flipped the perspective?

Modern proper names *given to people at birth* are never translated INTO another language even if the names derived from ancient originals because the name one is given in a culture is the name one is given. So likewise one shouldn't translate an ancient proper name *given to a person from birth* FROM its original language because the name one is given in a culture is the name one is given. Gerard is a french man who received the french version of the German name "Gerald", but that doesn't mean his name is Gerald. His name is Gerard. Calling him by the french name he was given honors the heritage from which he was born.

Christ was born an ancient Jew, the name he was given is ancient Hebrew; given by an ancient Jewish man & woman and inspired by the God of the Jews. His original name is not English, not Latin, and not Greek...even though each one of those languages has a version of the same name in it.

Benyamin Netanyahu's name isn't BenJamin Nathaniel simply because that's an equal translation his name into English. His name is the one he was given at birth.

---

This is not a salvation issue, but a respect thing for me; personal humility vs. personal pride. Christ isn't my pet or my own idol that I can customize to my personal preferences (like a mobile phone). He is an individual as alive as anyone else, and he's my king...so if he was given a Hebrew name I'm going to honor that...as poorly as I do pronounce it in my English accent.

 

[chubbena]

nonsense.
Paul wrote to many churches. they all did.
Jesus addressed several.

they had different cultures and whatnot.
what matters is if they were believing the very same scriptures and putting them into practice.

this antichurch thing is the twin sister of the Christianity is pagan thing.
soon you'll be in Judaism....mark it down.

JESUS is His Name.

do you know Him?

Many churches does not equate to many denominations.
The NT churches in different cities were a result of geographic needs. The very many churches in the same city or the same block today are a result of different theological views and are teaching different doctrines and many are half full using much of the tithes paying morgage and the salaries of the clergy.
The NT churches were never named after a person. They weren't even named.
The NT churches were united. Ministers went from one to the other. Try that in modern day denominations.
Soon you find out if you are getting close to the top management. Or may be you are the management and are obliged to defend the system.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hizikyah
could you please tell me the story behind the Tetragrammaton?

LORD (Strong's #3068)

The word LORD (all uppercase letters) is, in the Hebrew text, the name of God - יהוה (Yahweh) and commonly called the Tetragramaton. In our culture we use names as simple identifiers, a word with no meaning that identifies an individual. But, in the Hebrews culture each name was a Hebrew word, or phrase, that has a meaning. In the case of יהוה it is the verb הוה (hawah) meaning to "exist" and the prefixed pronoun י meaning "he." The name יהוה means "he exists."

Hebrew Language Studies < click

could you check this with your sacred name hebrew experts?
i could be wrong.

i don't care about what rabbis do or say.
i want to know your understanding of the Tetragrammaton, and why you are using a transliteration of a CODE.

please CITE YOUR SOURCES.

thank you...laterz
zone

Im unsure of exactly what you are asking: "the story behind the Tetragrammaton" so please explain a bit more.

Also you may not care what the rabbis command, realistically NONE should, but you follow one of their laws by replacing YHWH with Lord and God..... this should not be so....

 

[Hizikyah]

nonsense.
Paul wrote to many churches. they all did.
Jesus addressed several.

they had different cultures and whatnot.
what matters is if they were believing the very same scriptures and putting them into practice.

this antichurch thing is the twin sister of the Christianity is pagan thing.
soon you'll be in Judaism....mark it down.

JESUS is His Name.

do you know Him?

Different cultures and different doctrines are not the same thing, if one submits to Yahweh in the way Yahshua perscribes they are part of the body of Messiah, if they submit in a way made by man they are not doing what Yahweh and Yahshua Command.

There is a difference between being against congregations and being against false teaching congregations..

Also the letter J did not even exist until the 16th century, so no Jesus is not His Name.

HERETIC
1: a dissenter from established religious dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth
2: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : nonconformist

LOL!

I guess you may be one of those who say 16th century names are truth and those who disagree are heritics and part of a evil Hebrew movement. I cant speak for eveyone just me, I want to trash all man made foolishness and seek Yahweh in truth.

 

[zone]

Good question. Not at all if they're *trying* to pronounce it correctly (no need to be perfect). Mispronouncing my name is a fault of their accent not their choice...they're doing their best. But if I said my name is Joshua and they refuse to even try to call me "Yo-swa" and instead say "no, your name will be 'Hey-zeus' or 'Gee-zuz'". That's pretty disrespectful to me, isn't it?

Here a better question...

The actor Gerard De Pardieu's name is pronounced "jerrard de-par-doo". Would it be acceptable to call him "Gerald by God's [will]"...because such is the original German version of his name (spoken in English)? If you met him would you go up to him and call him Gerald? And if he corrected you and said "non, iss Jerrard." would you say "well the German of your name is Gerald, so I don't see anything wrong with calling your Gerald."?

You see how I flipped the perspective?

Modern proper names *given to people at birth* are never translated INTO another language even if the names derived from ancient originals because the name one is given in a culture is the name one is given. So likewise one shouldn't translate an ancient proper name *given to a person from birth* FROM its original language because the name one is given in a culture is the name one is given. Gerard is a french man who received the french version of the German name "Gerald", but that doesn't mean his name is Gerald. His name is Gerard. Calling him by the french name he was given honors the heritage from which he was born.

Christ was born an ancient Jew, the name he was given is ancient Hebrew; given by an ancient Jewish man & woman and inspired by the God of the Jews. His original name is not English, not Latin, and not Greek...even though each one of those languages has a version of the same name in it.

Benyamin Netanyahu's name isn't BenJamin Nathaniel simply because that's an equal translation his name into English. His name is the one he was given at birth.

---

This is not a salvation issue, but a respect thing for me; personal humility vs. personal pride. Christ isn't my pet or my own idol that I can customize to my personal preferences (like a mobile phone). He is an individual as alive as anyone else, and he's my king...so if he was given a Hebrew name I'm going to honor that...as poorly as I do pronounce it in my English accent.

Joshua:

"Mispronouncing my name is a fault of their accent not their choice...they're doing their best."

they are not mispronouncing your name
they are pronouncing it exactly as it is in Spanish.

Joshua is roughly an English pronunciation of Yeshua-Yehoshua; which is an English translation of an Hebrew Name
so, when someone calls you Joshua...the name your mother gave you, should they really be pronouncing your name Yeshua?
or were you specifically named Joshua - an English translation, and therefore an English name?

many of the people of the region were Greek speaking - including many jews.

in their language, which is and was perfectly acceptable - God poured out the Gospel into all languages, the name Joshua is Ιησούς του ναυή - this sounds like - ee-shoosh -kinda...but it is still the name Joshua.

if a greek speaker waved at you and smiled and said ee-shoos or ee-soos! - would you be offended.

Ιησούς is ee-soos....this is Jesus.

ישוע this is Jesus...Ιησούς in greek

Ιησούς in German sounds like Yee-zoos

Ιησούς (Yeshua) - Иисус - in Russian sounds like Itee-sos

...

my point is this.....The holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, and all the devout JEWS who lived in other nations (not Judea); and who spoke other languages, heard the Gospel in the very dialects in which they were born.

this means God not only knew the languages and inflections by region, He ordained that the people hear it in their OWN language.
this is very important. in their own languages in which they were born.
we are not told anywhere that they then went away and taught people Hebrew before they could be saved or please God by pronouncing ישוע in Hebrew

God bless you in whatever languages you use and learn.
but we should never, ever suggest God Almighty does not save people who call upon the Name of Jesus in their own language, or that His Name is not KNOWN in every language. this was God`s Plan.

zone

 

[zone]

Good question. Not at all if they're *trying* to pronounce it correctly (no need to be perfect). Mispronouncing my name is a fault of their accent not their choice...they're doing their best. But if I said my name is Joshua and they refuse to even try to call me "Yo-swa" and instead say "no, your name will be 'Hey-zeus' or 'Gee-zuz'". That's pretty disrespectful to me, isn't it?

well, they likely wouldnt call you Hey-soos (whats with the adding in Zeus btw....thats ridiculous) because your name is not JESUS. it is Joshua - an ENGLISH translation of an hebrew name (presumably), and therefore an English name.

if your name was JESUS in Mexico, they would pronounce it Hey-soos.

are Mexcians not allowed to call upon the name of Jesus without worrying about a debunked theory of Zeus

in Latin, which was the language of the Romans (who also got saved; and Paul likely spoke); Yeshua sounds like Gee-zooce, or as you wrote: Gee-zuz

what is the problem...Joshua in Latin sounds like: ee-aw-shwa

if a Latin speaker called you ee-aw-shwa would you be offended

in Latin my name sounds like: Kettee... in Russian it sounds like Kray-tya

guess what - it`s STILL MY NAME

 

[zone]

Different cultures and different doctrines are not the same thing, if one submits to Yahweh in the way Yahshua perscribes they are part of the body of Messiah, if they submit in a way made by man they are not doing what Yahweh and Yahshua Command.

There is a difference between being against congregations and being against false teaching congregations..

Also the letter J did not even exist until the 16th century, so no Jesus is not His Name.

HERETIC
1: a dissenter from established religious dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth
2: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : nonconformist

LOL!

I guess you may be one of those who say 16th century names are truth and those who disagree are heritics and part of a evil Hebrew movement. I cant speak for eveyone just me, I want to trash all man made foolishness and seek Yahweh in truth.

Hizikyah;
why are you writing to me in English?
your salvation is at stake.
bye now.

 

[zone]

Many churches does not equate to many denominations.
The NT churches in different cities were a result of geographic needs. The very many churches in the same city or the same block today are a result of different theological views and are teaching different doctrines and many are half full using much of the tithes paying morgage and the salaries of the clergy.
The NT churches were never named after a person. They weren't even named.
The NT churches were united. Ministers went from one to the other. Try that in modern day denominations.
Soon you find out if you are getting close to the top management. Or may be you are the management and are obliged to defend the system.

the different doctrines matters.

the rest is a case by case thing for me, pretty much.
really i don't know why we have so-called non-denominational organizations - they're organized by some particular quirk or preference.
which is what makes it hard to know - no established institution to check out....accountability? shifting doctrine?
dunno.

 

[Praus]

Hey, I'm kind of a Hebrew Roots guy, and I'm not that bad of a guy.

Hey, you're kind of the guy who requested this thread in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with blessing a group of people doing something unique to them. If you feel it's divisive and wrong to do so, please feel free to start a different thread about it.

Hey, this was meant to be a blessing and encouragement for those keeping the Sabbath. If you choose not to keep the Sabbath, that's just fine. But please take the debates to a different thread.

 

[zone]

Hey, you're kind of the guy who requested this thread in the first place.

oopsie
lol praus

 

[TheAristocat]

in Latin my name sounds like: Kettee... in Russian it sounds like Kray-tya

guess what - it`s STILL MY NAME

I'm going to call you Kraytya from now on. lol But seriously is this for Katie?

 

[directline2iam]

if a Spanish speaker called you by your name Joshua, and it sounded like this: Yo- swa, would you be offended?
the person is actually pronouncing your real name...not mistaking your name.

I'd be offended because it wouldn't sound anything like that in Spanish, at least not the Spanish I remember. That Yo-swa sounds more like French? But you didn't hear it from me.