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does it?
why go to a disp, site for the answer? you already know what disp. says.
"Question: "What are the times of the Gentiles?"
Answer: In Luke 21:24, Jesus speaks of future events, including the destruction of Jerusalem and His return.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/times-of-the-Gentiles.html#ixzz2hhpxSoId"
the 'times of the gentiles' is not future
Luke 21
The Destruction of Jerusalem
23"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
the Hebrews were getting warnings about it - about not coming out of the Old Covenant; out of the Temple system; and....that they did not have a continuing city here.
Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
.....that ^^^ is this:
Luke 21
The Destruction of Jerusalem
23"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
so now what?
do we play the shell game and switch to the Fullness of the Gentiles?
why go to a disp, site for the answer? you already know what disp. says.
"Question: "What are the times of the Gentiles?"
Answer: In Luke 21:24, Jesus speaks of future events, including the destruction of Jerusalem and His return.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/times-of-the-Gentiles.html#ixzz2hhpxSoId"
the 'times of the gentiles' is not future
Luke 21
The Destruction of Jerusalem
23"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
the Hebrews were getting warnings about it - about not coming out of the Old Covenant; out of the Temple system; and....that they did not have a continuing city here.
Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
.....that ^^^ is this:
Luke 21
The Destruction of Jerusalem
23"Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
so now what?
do we play the shell game and switch to the Fullness of the Gentiles?
M
Being Jewish can mean one of several things. Once upon a time, it could mean descent from Judah. Although, I concede, the word Jew wasn't invented until the last 200 years ago or so.
However, during the aforementioned times (i.e. prior to 70AD), being a Judahite could refer to ethnicity. When people try to claim descent from Judah today (i.e. claim to be ethnic Jews), I don't think there is any proof of their claim. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it can be treated the same as claiming to be descended from any historical figure. It's an interesting claim, but totally without proof.
Whether their claim of being an ethnic Jew is true matters not, although usually, those claiming it to be true believe that it does matter, and there are special privileges that come with their ancestry.
However, during the aforementioned times (i.e. prior to 70AD), being a Judahite could refer to ethnicity. When people try to claim descent from Judah today (i.e. claim to be ethnic Jews), I don't think there is any proof of their claim. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it can be treated the same as claiming to be descended from any historical figure. It's an interesting claim, but totally without proof.
Whether their claim of being an ethnic Jew is true matters not, although usually, those claiming it to be true believe that it does matter, and there are special privileges that come with their ancestry.
M
I half agree Zone... But I hate that people call themselves ethnic Jews, as though there are special privileges that come with this (e.g. they think they are more chosen than Christians).
With such people, I like to identify Christians as Jewish, so they will understand that it is through Christ we are chosen. For those who believe that ethnicity is more important than Christ, it tends to enrage a little. This rage is probably good, as it may encourage them to further scrutinise what it is they truly believe, and why.
With such people, I like to identify Christians as Jewish, so they will understand that it is through Christ we are chosen. For those who believe that ethnicity is more important than Christ, it tends to enrage a little. This rage is probably good, as it may encourage them to further scrutinise what it is they truly believe, and why.
the Jews who belong to God are/were either - ancient and 1st century hebrews; or they are jewish people today.
gentile believers are gentiles (non-jews). there's no greek nor jew.
ALL of the ABOVE are Christians.
he is not a jew who is one outwardly (circumcised; religious or not; raised jewish - unbelievers etc) - but one inwardly...we know
if we keep referring to ourselves as jews, 1) it's antagonizing to jews who aren't believers 2) the christian-zionists end up in an uproar
i'm just saying, we have a perfectly honorable and sacred name...the Name of the One we belong to - Jesus THE CHRIST (Messiah).
Acts 11:26c
The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
gentile believers are gentiles (non-jews). there's no greek nor jew.
ALL of the ABOVE are Christians.
he is not a jew who is one outwardly (circumcised; religious or not; raised jewish - unbelievers etc) - but one inwardly...we know
if we keep referring to ourselves as jews, 1) it's antagonizing to jews who aren't believers 2) the christian-zionists end up in an uproar
i'm just saying, we have a perfectly honorable and sacred name...the Name of the One we belong to - Jesus THE CHRIST (Messiah).
Acts 11:26c
The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
lol...i understand. but it's all ridiculous in the end.
since Calvary (and 70AD) there's no more distinction - on any level.
jews are chosen only if they end up Christians - or vice versa.
same with gentiles.
i like the title Christian.
Jesus is the Christ. we belong to Him; He purchased us.
messianic or HR proponents can wring their hands and cry paganized name all they want to.
i'm a Christian.
a very grateful one.
since Calvary (and 70AD) there's no more distinction - on any level.
jews are chosen only if they end up Christians
- or vice versa.same with gentiles.
i like the title Christian.
Jesus is the Christ. we belong to Him; He purchased us.
messianic or HR proponents can wring their hands and cry paganized name all they want to.
i'm a Christian.
a very grateful one.
L
Newsflash...to those who believe that Gentile Christians are Jews...you are simply saved Gentiles, members of the Body of Christ, who have terribly twisted Biblical terminology. You are not “Israelites” or “Jews”, but you are Reformed “theologians” who believe, contrary to Biblical usage, that you are a “spiritual” Israelite/Jew. You are guilty of maligning dispensationalists, whose only desire is to interpret Biblical terms literally, according to their Biblical definition and usage.
M
if we keep referring to ourselves as jews, 1) it's antagonizing to jews who aren't believers 2) the christian-zionists end up in an uproar
But you are right. Christian has the word Christ in it, and is an infinitely better descriptor of those of us redeemed by His precious blood, than the word "Jew".
the Jews who belong to God are/were either - ancient and 1st century hebrews; or they are jewish people today.
gentile believers are gentiles (non-jews). there's no greek nor jew.
ALL of the ABOVE are Christians.
he is not a jew who is one outwardly (circumcised; religious or not; raised jewish - unbelievers etc) - but one inwardly...we know
if we keep referring to ourselves as jews, 1) it's antagonizing to jews who aren't believers 2) the christian-zionists end up in an uproar
i'm just saying, we have a perfectly honorable and sacred name...the Name of the One we belong to - Jesus THE CHRIST (Messiah).
Acts 11:26c
The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
gentile believers are gentiles (non-jews). there's no greek nor jew.
ALL of the ABOVE are Christians.
he is not a jew who is one outwardly (circumcised; religious or not; raised jewish - unbelievers etc) - but one inwardly...we know
if we keep referring to ourselves as jews, 1) it's antagonizing to jews who aren't believers 2) the christian-zionists end up in an uproar
i'm just saying, we have a perfectly honorable and sacred name...the Name of the One we belong to - Jesus THE CHRIST (Messiah).
Acts 11:26c
The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
J
Gal 3:26-29
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
*scratches head*
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
*scratches head*
L
There is no such thing as a "spiritual" Jew or Israelite.
Romans 2:28-29 is speaking of a true Jew....one who is ethnically a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and is saved and regenerated.
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Saved and regenerated Jews are not "spiritual" Jews. You won't find that term anywhere in Scripture. Why do you folks "add" terms to Scripture that aren't there?
Romans 2:28-29 is speaking of a true Jew....one who is ethnically a physical descendant of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and is saved and regenerated.
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Saved and regenerated Jews are not "spiritual" Jews. You won't find that term anywhere in Scripture. Why do you folks "add" terms to Scripture that aren't there?
disps can't deal with Galatians
Galatians 6
Not Circumcision but the New Creation
11See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!
12Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whicha the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
17From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
18The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen.
....
And upon the Israel of God - The true church of God; all who are his true worshippers; see the note at Romans 2:28-29; Romans 9:6, note. - Barnes'
The Israel of God - The true Christians, called here the Israel of God, to distinguish them from Israel according to the flesh. See the notes on Romans 2:29; Romans 4:12 (note) - Clarke
and upon the Israel of God; which is a further description of the persons, for whom he prays for these blessings; and is not to be understood by way of distinction from them, but as an amplification of their character; and as pointing out the Israel, by way of emphasis, the Israel, or Israelites indeed, the spiritual Israel, as distinct from Israel according to the flesh; see 1 Corinthians 10:18. The "Israel of God", or as the Arabic version reads it, "Israel the propriety of God"; which he has a right unto, and a claim upon; who are chosen by him, Israel his elect; who are redeemed by him, out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation; who are called by his grace, and are styled Israel his called; who are justified in his Son, and by his righteousness; and for whose sake he is exalted as a Prince and a Saviour, to give them repentance and remission of sin; and who are, or will be saved by him, with an everlasting salvation; and is a name that includes all God's elect, whether Jews or Gentiles: though it may have a particular respect to such of the Israelites, or Jews, God had foreknown and reserved for himself; and who believed in Christ, and walked as new creatures, without confidence in the flesh. The Jews themselves own, that strangers, or proselytes, shall be called by the name of Israel; so they (b) explain Isaiah 44:5, latter part. - Gill
Upon the true Israel, whose praise is from God and not from men; Ro 2:29. - Geneva
Israel of God—not the Israel after the flesh, among whom those teachers wish to enrol you; but the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith (Ga 3:9, 29; Ro 2:28, 29; Php 3:3). - JFBBC
6:16-18 A new creation to the image of Christ, as showing faith in him, is the greatest distinction between one man and another, and a blessing is declared on all who walk according to this rule. - Henry
And upon the Israel of God. Rather, Even upon, etc. The Greek word kai often means even, and does here, as the Israel of God does not differ from those who follow this rule. - PNT
We may compare in particular Ephesians 6:24, "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in uncorruptness," not only as similar in construction, requiring the like suppletion of "be," but also as another instance in which the apostle pronounces his pastoral benediction with a certain limitation, specifying those only who sincerely love Jesus Christ. The limitation in these two cases only implied is in 1 Corinthians 16:22 converted into a distinctly expressed anathema upon those who do not love Christ.
The words, "and upon the Israel of God," seem to be an echo of the "peace upon Israel (εἰρήνη ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραήλ)," which, in the Septuagint, closes the hundred and twenty-fifth and hundred and twenty-eighth psalms. The addition of the words, "of God," seems intended pointedly to distinguish the "Israel" which the apostle has m view from that which boasted itself as being Israel while it was not, and also from the false brethren (ψευδαδελφοί, Galatians 2:4) in the Christian Church, who were for linking themselves with the false Israel. The addition is not merely honorific, as in the expression, "the Church of God" (1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9), but distinctive as well - that which alone God views and loves as "Israel" - to wit, the entire body of real believers in Christ, who, as portrayed in this Epistle, are "children of promise after the fashion of Isaac" (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's seed and heirs of the promise" (Galatians 3:29), and the children of "the upper Jerusalem, which is our mother" (Galatians 4:26). - Pulpit
...
any truly born again believer who has been led through the God-breathed Scriptures by the Holy Spirit knows they are the Israel of God, accepted in the Beloved.
the Spirit testifies to them, continually
the Spirit does not testify of a Mystery Gentile Grace Church Age Gap Parenthesis.
Galatians 6
Not Circumcision but the New Creation
11See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!
12Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whicha the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
17From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
18The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen.
....
And upon the Israel of God - The true church of God; all who are his true worshippers; see the note at Romans 2:28-29; Romans 9:6, note. - Barnes'
The Israel of God - The true Christians, called here the Israel of God, to distinguish them from Israel according to the flesh. See the notes on Romans 2:29; Romans 4:12 (note) - Clarke
and upon the Israel of God; which is a further description of the persons, for whom he prays for these blessings; and is not to be understood by way of distinction from them, but as an amplification of their character; and as pointing out the Israel, by way of emphasis, the Israel, or Israelites indeed, the spiritual Israel, as distinct from Israel according to the flesh; see 1 Corinthians 10:18. The "Israel of God", or as the Arabic version reads it, "Israel the propriety of God"; which he has a right unto, and a claim upon; who are chosen by him, Israel his elect; who are redeemed by him, out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation; who are called by his grace, and are styled Israel his called; who are justified in his Son, and by his righteousness; and for whose sake he is exalted as a Prince and a Saviour, to give them repentance and remission of sin; and who are, or will be saved by him, with an everlasting salvation; and is a name that includes all God's elect, whether Jews or Gentiles: though it may have a particular respect to such of the Israelites, or Jews, God had foreknown and reserved for himself; and who believed in Christ, and walked as new creatures, without confidence in the flesh. The Jews themselves own, that strangers, or proselytes, shall be called by the name of Israel; so they (b) explain Isaiah 44:5, latter part. - Gill
Upon the true Israel, whose praise is from God and not from men; Ro 2:29. - GenevaIsrael of God—not the Israel after the flesh, among whom those teachers wish to enrol you; but the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith (Ga 3:9, 29; Ro 2:28, 29; Php 3:3). - JFBBC
6:16-18 A new creation to the image of Christ, as showing faith in him, is the greatest distinction between one man and another, and a blessing is declared on all who walk according to this rule. - Henry
And upon the Israel of God. Rather, Even upon, etc. The Greek word kai often means even, and does here, as the Israel of God does not differ from those who follow this rule. - PNT
We may compare in particular Ephesians 6:24, "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in uncorruptness," not only as similar in construction, requiring the like suppletion of "be," but also as another instance in which the apostle pronounces his pastoral benediction with a certain limitation, specifying those only who sincerely love Jesus Christ. The limitation in these two cases only implied is in 1 Corinthians 16:22 converted into a distinctly expressed anathema upon those who do not love Christ.
The words, "and upon the Israel of God," seem to be an echo of the "peace upon Israel (εἰρήνη ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραήλ)," which, in the Septuagint, closes the hundred and twenty-fifth and hundred and twenty-eighth psalms. The addition of the words, "of God," seems intended pointedly to distinguish the "Israel" which the apostle has m view from that which boasted itself as being Israel while it was not, and also from the false brethren (ψευδαδελφοί, Galatians 2:4) in the Christian Church, who were for linking themselves with the false Israel. The addition is not merely honorific, as in the expression, "the Church of God" (1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9), but distinctive as well - that which alone God views and loves as "Israel" - to wit, the entire body of real believers in Christ, who, as portrayed in this Epistle, are "children of promise after the fashion of Isaac" (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's seed and heirs of the promise" (Galatians 3:29), and the children of "the upper Jerusalem, which is our mother" (Galatians 4:26). - Pulpit
...
any truly born again believer who has been led through the God-breathed Scriptures by the Holy Spirit knows they are the Israel of God, accepted in the Beloved.
the Spirit testifies to them, continually
the Spirit does not testify of a Mystery Gentile Grace Church Age Gap Parenthesis.