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oh i'm afraid it is my dear.
ANOTHER CHRIST.
One who did not accomplish what He came to do.
Two Covenants in place - Two Plans - a DIRECT and devilish repudiation of The LORD's suffering and His very Person.
deal with Galatians 4 Katy.
taught by the same paul you say injected a Mystery Gap Church Age into all of it.
ANOTHER CHRIST.
One who did not accomplish what He came to do.
Two Covenants in place - Two Plans - a DIRECT and devilish repudiation of The LORD's suffering and His very Person.
deal with Galatians 4 Katy.
taught by the same paul you say injected a Mystery Gap Church Age into all of it.
H
Many don't understand that the "mysteries" are in the Old Testament and revealed in the New Testament. The trinity was true for the Jews but it was a mystery for them, the apostles of Christ and Christ made the trinity very clear. I believe the Church of God began in Genesis then make clear in the ministry of Jesus and the Apostles. The prophecies are very mysterious in the O.t. but are make clearer in the N.T.. The first advent of Jesus was make literally clear as Jesus fulfilled those prophecies about His first coming; So God will make the prophecies of Jesus 2nd coming more clear as the end gets closer. m Dan. 9 is very mysterious but with hindsight we can get a good understanding of the 70th wk, yet to come. What is clear in Daniel is :his prophecy covers from his day all the was to the end of the earth as we know it today. the "end " is foretold , Jesus takes over the world, the resurrection of all the dead, including Daniel, is in His book. No one can miss this; and the 70th week is at the end of history ,not immediately after Jesus' death. How any sensible person can not see this is a great mystery to me!! It is intellectual "suicide" not to see this.! But , Love to all, Hoffco
B
This is clear as a bell unless you like the sound of your own private interpretation.
Jeremiah 30
1The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith theLord; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
18 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the Lord.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
Jeremiah 30
1The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith theLord; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
18 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the Lord.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
Jeremiah 25
The Seventy Year Captivity
10'Moreover, I will take from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. 11'This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
Jeremiah 29
Jeremiah's Letter to the Exiles
9'For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them,' declares the LORD. 10"For thus says the LORD, 'When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place. 11'For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.
Daniel 9
1In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
15And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. 16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 17Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 18O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.
20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Acts 5
29But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. 30"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. 31"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Luke 19:44
43"For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation."
The Seventy Year Captivity
10'Moreover, I will take from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. 11'This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
Jeremiah 29
Jeremiah's Letter to the Exiles
9'For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them,' declares the LORD. 10"For thus says the LORD, 'When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place. 11'For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.
Daniel 9
1In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
15And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. 16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 17Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 18O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.
20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Acts 5
29But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. 30"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. 31"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Luke 19:44
43"For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation."
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B
You hate the thought or even the imagination that you might be wrong in these matters because you have put so much time and energy into your studies. Your studies have been wasted because you have gained knowledge through the wrong premise. If your premise if off then your conclusions will also be off the mark. This is why you wrestle and have to condemn others and it reveals how insecure you really are in what you believe. Your dogmatism is without the right premise and you have become proud in what you believe. You can't force truth or error on anyone because God has to condition the soil of the heart. You have much fallow ground in your heart that has to be broken up and 'replowed' so that God can put the right premise in that heart and remove the insecurity.
Three questions for those who believe this stuff. (These are the questions I have not gotten an answer to)
1. First people have been believing this for close to 150 years,if God was revealing these to so many why did they get so much wrong? Remember God can not lie,and if God revealed it,it must come true just as they say it would,no exceptions.
2. Why then if God is truly revealing this to so many why do they have to keep changing and tweeking these things? Wouldn't the Lord know for sure exactly how it is to come about and if God was revealing it why should it have to be changed to fit with "current events because it wasn't right in the first place?
3. If God is revealing that this is true why do you have so much disagreement about what is exactly to happen if the Lord is truly revealing that this is to come about? Why do you have those that claim it is the old Roman Empire revived,some claiming it will be the Muslims etc? Which ones are listening to the lying spirits because BOTH OR MORE CAN NOT BE TRUE. Only one can be the truth so which one is it?
1. First people have been believing this for close to 150 years,if God was revealing these to so many why did they get so much wrong? Remember God can not lie,and if God revealed it,it must come true just as they say it would,no exceptions.
2. Why then if God is truly revealing this to so many why do they have to keep changing and tweeking these things? Wouldn't the Lord know for sure exactly how it is to come about and if God was revealing it why should it have to be changed to fit with "current events because it wasn't right in the first place?
3. If God is revealing that this is true why do you have so much disagreement about what is exactly to happen if the Lord is truly revealing that this is to come about? Why do you have those that claim it is the old Roman Empire revived,some claiming it will be the Muslims etc? Which ones are listening to the lying spirits because BOTH OR MORE CAN NOT BE TRUE. Only one can be the truth so which one is it?
Christian Zionism – Assault Against the Children of Abraham
By
Stan Moody
A crisis of major proportions confronts the American people. Our government is either oblivious or complicit to that crisis. Either way, America has chosen sides in the conflict in the Middle East. Millions of professing Christians have engaged in practices that have contributed to the marginalizing and oppression of fellow believers on the West Bank of the Palestine Territory and in East Jerusalem.
Christians United for Israel, an organization under the leadership of Texas evangelist John Hagee, claims a captive audience of 50M evangelical Christians whose faith rises or falls on the mandate of God’s promise to Abraham, Gen. 12:3, I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
This is a movement now referred to as Christian Zionism.
Evangelical Christians interpret Gen. 12:3 as pivotal to their standing with God.
It is a form of idolatry to the nation-state of Israel – the land overshadowing the promise, and the promise restricted to the land. Abraham, Jew and the nation-state of Israel become interchangeable terms.
http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/MoodyS01.pdf
Galatians 3:9
if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
can you read.....here it is nice and big.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
By
Stan Moody
A crisis of major proportions confronts the American people. Our government is either oblivious or complicit to that crisis. Either way, America has chosen sides in the conflict in the Middle East. Millions of professing Christians have engaged in practices that have contributed to the marginalizing and oppression of fellow believers on the West Bank of the Palestine Territory and in East Jerusalem.
Christians United for Israel, an organization under the leadership of Texas evangelist John Hagee, claims a captive audience of 50M evangelical Christians whose faith rises or falls on the mandate of God’s promise to Abraham, Gen. 12:3, I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse, and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
This is a movement now referred to as Christian Zionism.
Evangelical Christians interpret Gen. 12:3 as pivotal to their standing with God.
It is a form of idolatry to the nation-state of Israel – the land overshadowing the promise, and the promise restricted to the land. Abraham, Jew and the nation-state of Israel become interchangeable terms.
http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/MoodyS01.pdf
Galatians 3:9
if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
can you read.....here it is nice and big.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
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B
Even if you entertained for a moment that God has a special people called by his name, who rebelled against him and rejected his Son but had a plan through a covenant of mercy to restore them in the last days, why would you be so against it? What is in your heart that makes you so prejudice against Israel and its people and children who have returned to their land which you also reject? Why can't you just let God have his way on his time table to deal with his people of Israel and be content with being part of the church and body of Christ who have eternal life and will inherit the kingdom of God? Isn't that enough to rejoice over without having to condemn the nation and people of Israel? In the time of the great tribulation they will have to see him and look back on the one they pierced and crucified and be washed by the blood of the Lamb and if they offer any sacrifices by faith on any altar it will have to typify and demonstrate the blood of the Lamb that was sacrificed on Calvary. There is no other sacrifice and no other blood that will cleanse them from sin and the consciousness of sin. Their blindness at present is partial and they do not see the Lord as he is but they will and to be saved their robes will have to be washed in that blood.
why would i be against it?
that's exactly what happened.
but you, do not believe.
Hebrews 1:2
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us [HEBREWS] in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
that's exactly what happened.
but you, do not believe.
Hebrews 1:2
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us [HEBREWS] in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
The People of the Millennium
If Christ were to come back after the tribulation, rapture all the saints, and slay all the ungodly, who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium? Only the pre-trib viewpoint can account for this post-trib problem.
The Church is raptured before the tribulation, a vast number of souls are saved during this seven-year time frame, and those who make it through the tribulation go into the millennium while the unsaved are cast into hell.
The Saint U-Turn
In the pre-trib scenario, after we rise to meet the Lord in the air, we will go to heaven and abide there seven years. At the end of that period, Christ will come down to earth, defeat the Antichrist, and cleanse the temple.
raptureready . com < childish fables and itchy ear-scratching
.........
cleanse the temple?
John 4
20"Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship." 21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
JOHN HAGEE ANTICHRIST HERESIES: - "In Defense of Israel"
- Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah
- Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah
John 1:41
The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, "We have found the Messiah" (that is, the Christ).
John 4
25The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”
John 20:31
But these are written so that you may continue to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing in him you will have life by the power of his name.
The People of the Millennium
If Christ were to come back after the tribulation, rapture all the saints, and slay all the ungodly, who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium? Only the pre-trib viewpoint can account for this post-trib problem.
and how is it you have anyone surviving the Second coming and doing anything in the flesh?
oh.....2 resurrections 1,000 years apart.
2 of everything.
Two peoples
Two Plans
Two Trees
Two Covenants
Two gospels
A
why is it a comfort to anyone to think God blinded Jews for thousands of years
then saves all of them only in a certain time period.....2000 yrs of damnation for them all
which seems itself a rather antisemitic theology. Or at least very tough to get your head around
at least for a noncalvinist like myself. So glad for the book of Romans
then saves all of them only in a certain time period.....2000 yrs of damnation for them all
which seems itself a rather antisemitic theology. Or at least very tough to get your head around
at least for a noncalvinist like myself. So glad for the book of Romans