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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Dispensational Premillennialism

1. Distinctive Features and Emphases:

a. Dispensationalists argue for the necessity of the literal interpretation of all of the prophetic portions of Scripture. Charles Ryrie makes this point very clearly:

When the principles of literal interpretation both in regard to general and special hermeneutics are followed, the result the premillennial system of doctrine... If one interprets literally, he arrives at the premillennial system.
This means that all promises made to David and Abraham under the Old Covenant are to be literally fulfilled in the future millennial age.
and there's your 2000+ Year Mystery GAP.
Jesus and all of NT Redemptive History, everything He lived and died for is just SKIPPED.
and placed AFTER the Second Coming and Judgment (which is deadly...since there's only eternity after that).

this GAP comes from severing Daniel 9's 70th week from the other 69....stopping the "prophetic clock" - because, as Dave Hunt and other varieties of Scofieldians insist....when Jesus was rejected (?? then who were the Apostles:confused:) "God had a thorough-going change of plans".....or as Hagee takes it to the sordid reality (i'm so glad that guy blabbers on in public - he makes the heresies clear)...Jesus didn't come to be the Messiah to the jews!

if he didn't come as Messiah for them, NO ONE IS SAVED.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile


Scofield 1:16
For I am ashamed of the gospel, because it is not the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: because the jews over-rode God's Plan and rejected the King, so God switched Plans and decided to save gentiles instead, and so all promises made to David and Abraham under the Old Covenant are to be literally fulfilled in the future millennial age.

ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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0
Hagee speaks jackyl words and I am not in anyway supporting huim or anybody else statement just qouting some Scriptures.

im not sure i understand what your saying but..

Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
 
B

BradC

Guest
Ephesians 2:20
19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord...

hard?
yes? no?
So this is your answer as to the reference of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel? In your understanding, verse 19 that mentions 'the saints' is referring to the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. Is that correct? In your theology what do the twelve tribes of the children of Israel have to do with the church and the new city of Jerusalem? If we are all one body as new testament saints, why is their a distinction made? Why not reference them as 'the saints' or 'the church' or the body of Christ'? What was the intention of the Spirit to make reference to these as the 'twelve tribes of the children of Israel' specifically in Rev 7:4, 21:2 and James 1:1 and why are they referred to as such if there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ? Especially in Rev 7:4 are we to spiritualize these twelve tribes of the children of Israel as the church functioning on earth as the kingdom of God during the time of great tribulation? These servants are mentioned by the name of each tribe. Has the church been separated or absorbed into twelve tribes as the children of Israel and are they all men who have not defiled themselves with women according to Rev 14:4 or are we to take this in some allegorical fashion to explain why this is the church and not men of Israel who have raised up and washed by the blood of the Lamb?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Hagee speaks jackyl words and I am not in anyway supporting huim or anybody else statement just qouting some Scriptures.

im not sure i understand what your saying but..

Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Isaiah 59:20
The Covenant of the Redeemer
20"A Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob," declares the LORD. 21"As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."

Joel 2:32
And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

so which Covenant is God talking about?
the Covenant with Abraham:)

Luke 1
The Birth of John the Baptist
57Now the time came for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son. 58And her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown great mercy to her, and they rejoiced with her. 59And on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child. And they would have called him Zechariah after his father, 60but his mother answered, “No; he shall be called John.” 61And they said to her, “None of your relatives is called by this name.” 62And they made signs to his father, inquiring what he wanted him to be called. 63And he asked for a writing tablet and wrote, “His name is John.” And they all wondered. 64And immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he spoke, blessing God. 65And fear came on all their neighbors. And all these things were talked about through all the hill country of Judea, 66and all who heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, “What then will this child be?” For the hand of the Lord was with him.

Zechariah’s Prophecy
67And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied, saying,

68 “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
for he has visited and redeemed his people
69 and has raised up a horn of salvation for us
in the house of his servant David,
70 as he spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old,
71 that we should be saved from our enemies
and from the hand of all who hate us;
72 to show the mercy promised to our fathers
and to remember his holy covenant,
73 the oath that he swore to our father Abraham
, to grant us
74 that we, being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
might serve him without fear,
75 in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
76 And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High;
for you will go before the Lord to prepare his ways,
77 to give knowledge of salvation to his people
in the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God,
whereby the sunrise shall visit ush from on high
79 to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the way of peace.”

80And the child grew and became strong in spirit, and he was in the wilderness until the day of his public appearance to Israel.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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63
Luke 2
Jesus Presented at the Temple
22And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”) 24and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, “a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.” 25Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, 28he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,

29 “Lord, now you are letting your servantd depart in peace,
according to your word;
30 for my eyes have seen your salvation
31 that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to your people Israel.”

33And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. 34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”

36And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin, 37and then as a widow until she was eighty-four.e She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day. 38And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

...

Isaiah 8:14
He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.

Luke 2
“Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”
 
B

BradC

Guest
So your saying 144000 is literal?
What reason do we have that they are not literal? After all they are servants from the the twelve tribes and they are children of Israel and according to Rev 14:4 they are men undefiled by women who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. What reason would their be to allegorize them as not being a literal group of undefiled men from the twelve tribes of the children of Israel? If the twelve tribes of the children of Israel do not exist, why then bring them up and reveal them to John in a vision of the future? Do you believe these 144,000 represent the church going through the time of great tribulation who are sealed on their foreheads? If these are not literal, what does the 144,000 represent as men undefiled by women being from the twelve tribes of the children of Israel as God's servant. Each part must have a specific symbolic meaning if not taken literally.
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
"e. Jesus came to earth bringing with him an "offer" of the kingdom to the Jews, who rejected him. God then turned to dealing with the Gentiles -- thus, the church age is a parenthesis of sorts. The rapture is the next event to occur in Biblical prophecy. The signs of the end of the age (i.e., the birth of the nation of Israel, the revival of the Roman empire predicted in Daniel as seen through the emergence of the EEC [common market], the impending Russian-Arab invasion of Israel, etc.) all point to the immediacy of the secret return of Christ for his church. Antichrist is awaiting his revelation once the believing church is removed."

Eschatology Chart

CooCaw...NONE of this is actually in the Bible. none of it.
it's all fiction. a storyline just blatantly laid alongside what the Bible really says.
and is going to be very bad for your spiritual health.

if you are logical, even for a little while....you'll see that this means Jesus did not accomplish what he came to do.
go back and read John Hagee's remarks about Jesus not being the Messiah.
this is antichrist, friend. how long til you take the time to get the Israel of God (CHRIST) question right?

do you know what this God is saying?

Hosea 11:1
1When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. 2The more they called them, The more they went from them; They kept sacrificing to the Baals And burning incense to idols

Matthew 2:15
14So Joseph got up and took the Child and His mother while it was still night, and left for Egypt. 15He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."

if you don't believe God made Jesus to be The Israel (like He is the Second Adam); and you ditch Him...and insert people who identify as jews today, don't you know what this means?

ISRAEL - the "nation" (you think in the Middle East today) is your redemption.
and isn't this where dispensationalism goes?
of course it is. that's why threads like this one:

Re: Support your Local Jew!

because you think your salvation hinges on "blessing" the nation of Israel.
s'nother gospel, CooCaw.
better figure this out.
Zone you make all sorts of assertions about what I believe without justification

you draw the strangest inferences from sound bible doctrine

all the time you are sniping you are not running your own colours up the mast for examination

given that Jesus died in say, 33AD

YOU TELL ME - when was Daniel's 70th week??????????????????????
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Zone you make all sorts of assertions about what I believe without justification

you draw the strangest inferences from sound bible doctrine

all the time you are sniping you are not running your own colours up the mast for examination

given that Jesus died in say, 33AD

YOU TELL ME - when was Daniel's 70th week??????????????????????
:)
you tell me when Daniel's 70th week was.
not fulfilled yet?

all the time you are sniping you are not running your own colours up the mast for examination
lol.....mkay.

Amillennialism
Eschatology Chart < click

Does the Church Replace Israel?
by Dr. Arturo Azurdia III

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this: 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." (Revelation 2:8)

... Poverty as a consequence of slander and accusations .... The source of their persecution: the Romans. Fomenting the Roman persecution was the inciting accusations of ethnic Israelites about whom Jesus here says are not worthy of that ancient and honorable name. "I know the slander [blasphemy] by those who say they are Jews and are not." My friends that is a profoundly important statement. When we watch the flow of redemptive history, the storyline of the Bible unfold and we move from the epic of promise into the epic of fulfillment, God's people are no longer defined genealogically, they are defined Christologically ... Christocentrically. You say "what do you mean?" True Jews are those who follow Jesus as their Messiah. They are characterized by a birth not of the flesh, but of the Spirit. They are marked out by a circumcision not of the flesh but of the heart. So who then are these people? These people who claim to be Jews by virtue of their bloodline, but according to Jesus himself, they are not. Jesus defines them for us: "They are a synagogue of Satan." It is like what Jesus says to the unbelieving Pharisees in John chapter 8, who claimed the paternity of Abraham. He says: "You are of your father the devil." You see beloved, this is why we need to think clearly at this point. This is what is so utterly wrong today when people refer to the Judeo-Christian God. [They say] "Christians and Jews really in the end worship the same God." NO! ...To reject Jesus Christ is to reject the full and final revelation of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The truth is there is no such thing as an orthodox Jew, beloved, unless he is a Christian because if the Jews really believed in the Old Testament they would believe in Jesus Christ. If a person does not believe in Jesus Christ then, according to John chapter 5, then he does not believe in Moses either. "Moses spoke of me," Jesus said. And so Paul says in Romans chapter 2 "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly nor is circumcision merely outward and physical", no "a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly and circumcision is circumcision of the heart by the Spirit not the written code."

Now friends, people often ask me, "Do you believe that the church replaces Israel. The answer is "no of course not!!!" The church does not replace Israel. The fact is, Jewish people who reject Jesus Christ are apostate from Israel. Following Jesus Christ is the ultimate expression of true Judaism. Everything in the Old Testament pointed to Him. Israel and the church, then, are not in radical discontinuity, rather, the later is the consummated expression of the former. Beloved, a failure to appreciate that has profoundly determined strange things in our [own] country. By virtue of the influence of American evangelicalism we say silly things like "Always side with Israel, no matter what Israel does always side with Israel. God will take care of America if we always side with Israel. They are God's people." [But] Jesus says they are a synagogue of Satan. And is there a reason then why American evangelicals are notoriously ineffective in their evangelism of Arabs?

[Jesus is] The full, final, ultimate expression of Judaism. You are Abraham's seed. C'mon ... Tear those pages out of your study Bibles.
Does the Church Replace Israel
 
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C

CoooCaw

Guest
Dispensational Premillennialism

1. Distinctive Features and Emphases:

a. Dispensationalists argue for the necessity of the literal interpretation of all of the prophetic portions of Scripture. Charles Ryrie makes this point very clearly:

When the principles of literal interpretation both in regard to general and special hermeneutics are followed, the result the premillennial system of doctrine... If one interprets literally, he arrives at the premillennial system.
This means that all promises made to David and Abraham under the Old Covenant are to be literally fulfilled in the future millennial age.
this bit is good

your inferences are rubbish

i will spell it out again...........................

Adam was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
Abraham was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
David was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
Every member of the church, Jew, Samaritan, Gentile is saved by faith in the Messiah who came.
After the church is complete, salvation, for Jew and for Gentile, will only be by faith in the Messiah who came.
This will apply until the last person is saved at the end of the Millennium

Cease with your intellectual dishonesty, Zone, it will be a new experience for you.
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
surely daniels 70th week has been fulfilled, you dont believe in any gaps or do you?????
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Luke 3
23Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,e the son of Neri, 28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

^ the beginning of "The Church" < called out ones.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
this bit is good

your inferences are rubbish

i will spell it out again...........................

Adam was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
Abraham was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
David was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
Every member of the church, Jew, Samaritan, Gentile is saved by faith in the Messiah who came.
okay:)

After the church is complete..........salvation, for Jew and for Gentile, will only be by faith in the Messiah who came.

This will apply until the last person is saved at the end of the Millennium

Cease with your intellectual dishonesty, Zone, it will be a new experience for you.
lol....WHAT?

supposedly at some point (everybody from Adam to???) brings the Church to "completion".

THEN...."salvation, for Jew and for Gentile, will only be by faith in the Messiah who came. This will apply until the last person is saved at the end of the Millennium"

who are these people then WHO GET SAVED AFTER the church is complete and where do they belong?
does the Church become MORE complete?
get serious.

what is the rapture-gap thing for?
TELL ME WHAT THE MILLENNIUM IS FOR COOCAW.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
surely daniels 70th week has been fulfilled, you dont believe in any gaps or do you?????
can't just answer?

okay - yes, the 70th week is fulfilled.

if you agree...then tell me where in the Bible i can find the prophetic clock stopping; a 7 year tribulation; and an Antichrist making some peace treaty.

where? Daniel's 70th week - right?
if not....where CooCaw:rolleyes:
show me.

here's an online Bible (KJV):

Daniel 9 KJV < click
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
can't just answer?

okay - yes, the 70th week is fulfilled.

if you agree...then tell me where in the Bible i can find the prophetic clock stopping; a 7 year tribulation; and an Antichrist making some peace treaty.

where? Daniel's 70th week - right?
if not....where CooCaw:rolleyes:
show me.

here's an online Bible (KJV):

Daniel 9 KJV < click
if you are saying daniels 70th week has been fulfilled then

EXACTLY WHEN did that occur?
 
M

Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
if you are saying daniels 70th week has been fulfilled then
EXACTLY WHEN did that occur?
Ooh, I can answer that one! :D Jesus came after the 69th week, and died in the midst of the 70th, so if Jesus died in 33AD, the end of the 70th would have had to be before 40AD. Probably closer to 35 - 37AD, I think.

Daniel 9:24 - 27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
this bit is good

your inferences are rubbish

i will spell it out again...........................

Adam was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
Abraham was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
David was saved by faith in the Messiah to come.
Every member of the church, Jew, Samaritan, Gentile is saved by faith in the Messiah who came.
After the church is complete, salvation, for Jew and for Gentile, will only be by faith in the Messiah who came.
This will apply until the last person is saved at the end of the Millennium

Cease with your intellectual dishonesty, Zone, it will be a new experience for you.
if you are saying daniels 70th week has been fulfilled then

EXACTLY WHEN did that occur?
lol....so what about those "inferences"?
you have the clock stopped at week 69 -right?



does your eschatology (which involves a lot more than just 'end-times' stuff, btw) look like this?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Zone you make all sorts of assertions about what I believe without justification

you draw the strangest inferences from sound bible doctrine

all the time you are sniping you are not running your own colours up the mast for examination

given that Jesus died in say, 33AD

YOU TELL ME - when was Daniel's 70th week??????????????????????
do you believe something like this?:

"e. Jesus came to earth bringing with him an "offer" of the kingdom to the Jews, who rejected him. God then turned to dealing with the Gentiles -- thus, the church age is a parenthesis of sorts. The rapture is the next event to occur in Biblical prophecy. The signs of the end of the age (i.e., the birth of the nation of Israel, the revival of the Roman empire predicted in Daniel as seen through the emergence of the EEC [common market], the impending Russian-Arab invasion of Israel, etc.) all point to the immediacy of the secret return of Christ for his church. Antichrist is awaiting his revelation once the believing church is removed."

Eschatology Chart
 
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Why oh why is it so hard to get this? During the middle of the seventy weeks the sacrifices DID end. God torn the temple veil in two. They could NOT just go out and repair the veil. The sacrifices could NOT be done again till it was replaced. They didn't get the sign that the Lord gave them that it was done,finished and completed. And what more of abomination in the Lord's face would be to spit on Jesus sacrifice?
 
M

Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
Why oh why is it so hard to get this? During the middle of the seventy weeks the sacrifices DID end. God torn the temple veil in two. They could NOT just go out and repair the veil. The sacrifices could NOT be done again till it was replaced. They didn't get the sign that the Lord gave them that it was done,finished and completed. And what more of abomination in the Lord's face would be to spit on Jesus sacrifice?
I didn't realise that. They couldn't sacrifice with the temple veil torn in two?