Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible
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It sounds to me like I am making an argument for the knowledge of the works or mysteries of the kingdom of God being distributed exclusively to followers of Christ.
Mr 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mr 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
So the remaining question becomes -
Is Tongues a spiritual language consisting of the ability to speak of the works and mysteries of God or is the gift of Tongues the ability to speak another earthly language?
Brian
Mr 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mr 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
So the remaining question becomes -
Is Tongues a spiritual language consisting of the ability to speak of the works and mysteries of God or is the gift of Tongues the ability to speak another earthly language?
Brian
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If the Jewish proselytes among the Galileans were supernaturally enabled to speak the earthly languages of North Africa and Asia etc., what language do you think Cornelius and Italians spoke in the following exchange from acts 10?
Ac 10:44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Ac 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
The centurion was magnifying God.
Either the fact that they were "magnifying God in Italian" was the Gift of God called Tongues
or
the fact that they were "magnifying God" was the evidence that the Spirit was being poured out on them.
The Italians must have in your opinion spoke Italian and Peter understood the language as being Italian.
Since this centurion was a God fearing person, as is seen in Acts 10:2 -
Ac 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.
- it is reasonable to conclude that He did not become God fearing in that moment, but that He had for some time feared the God of the Jews. So He had probably magnified God before this event, Peter was simply not there to observe it. So was the Holy Spirit poured out on the centurion before Peter's visit or did He have to wait and magnify God in Peters presence for the gift of God to be officially recognized?
Brian
Ac 10:44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Ac 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
The centurion was magnifying God.
Either the fact that they were "magnifying God in Italian" was the Gift of God called Tongues
or
the fact that they were "magnifying God" was the evidence that the Spirit was being poured out on them.
The Italians must have in your opinion spoke Italian and Peter understood the language as being Italian.
Since this centurion was a God fearing person, as is seen in Acts 10:2 -
Ac 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.
- it is reasonable to conclude that He did not become God fearing in that moment, but that He had for some time feared the God of the Jews. So He had probably magnified God before this event, Peter was simply not there to observe it. So was the Holy Spirit poured out on the centurion before Peter's visit or did He have to wait and magnify God in Peters presence for the gift of God to be officially recognized?
Brian
I doubt this because the real gifts or real reasons are often ignored. Even when it was shown....
I doubt that the real is a plumb line. You read in the bible and doubt everything instead of reading, testing and asking God yourself. How can a human show you wrong or right in the Spirit? Only the Spirit can convince you, not men.
Also a “plumb line” was neither in the bible an issue to measure the right or fake. Only the bible and the Spirit are measures to know right from wrong. A plumb line, appearing in the right acted gift of the Holy Spirit, did not help persons to choose the right thing..........
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Act 8:21-23
In general, seeing the right thing does not mean that people will recognize it, or act after it. The biggest example of people not recognizing the right thing although it walks in front of them is: Jesus. He is the Plumb-line, the way, the truth and the live and still people wander if it is right.
How much fake is not the issue. Fake has always been here, starting in Eden. What IS RIGHT is the issue.
The devil tries every time to deceive, God does not deceive. So what in this debate is happening a lot is the focus on evil or distracting from the bible. Go back all the pages and threads and see that what is written against the gifts of the Spirit is often internet articles and clips that display ridiculous things. Or written church language instead of plain explainable bible verses.
What do you think was the issue with the Pharisees in Jesus days? Their rules....their use of scripture...... was that about turning people to God or focusing on not to do wrong in any manner.
Think about it....
Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on Him? But this people who know not the law are cursed. Joh 7:48,49
Why do you think they hated Jesus? Did Jesus do anything wrong?
Why do you think Jesus did mention in Mat 12: And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Did you see Jesus doing anything bad, or ridiculous there? Not at all. Still they the Scripture-law-knowers these so called bible-believing-Pharisees said He was acting out of a bad spirit. How come they could NOT recognize Him doing the right thing?
Think about it......
To focus on the bad stuff. Bad spirits, acting bad in church, wrong denominations, wrong movements, diving into signs of the times, focusing on the dark side of church and the world is a tactic of the devil to focus us on outward things so we do not see the stumble-block in our hearts that hinder God's Spirit to work freely. (Not just talking about gifts here...)
And God knocks on doors, asking to come and eat and drink. And many people say: “I am too busy” or “I think that is not for my time”, or “I think that is a wrong theology”. The issue is, do you only mind your own theological church business or do you dig for yourself into Gods word, Gods eating, Gods meal. Do you read Gods word as for YOU.
Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse. Luc 14:16
Do you really think ^this^ is only about accepting Gods salvation? Or only about the supper of the Lamb?
To say that many do NOT see what wrong spirits, tongues are, is not an argument to NOT research tongues in the bible, or to DENY speaking in tongues.
To say that there is too much fake is NOT an argument against the existence of the good tongues.
In a world of darkness.....the Light is shining for people whom want to see it. Unto the upright there arises light in the darkness: he is gracious, and full of compassion, and righteous. Psalm 112:4 It might take some time but the light will come.
I have talked about this a lot with my grandfather, former pastor. And he was the one whom always mentioned to me: Unto the upright there arises light in the darkness Psalm 112:4 My grandfather came as young man (18 years) out of a charismatic cult (just after WW2). He did ran away from church and God because of the wrongdoings of this cult-leader. Started drinking and smoking etc. Years later he returned to God went down on his knees and prayed to God Luc 11:11-13 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? And while praying this verse he started speaking in tongues. So you see how well I know how wrong things can be (heard awful stories of this charismatic cult-leader) but also that whom really wants to know from God, will receive from God.
I can only tell you my observations and from Gods word how things are working. I personally have no clue why I decline things (I sense wrong when I watch things) and others not. People that have spiritual interests and no interest in the bible will be weak and prey for spirits. Some will have issues to discern because Gods word is the Spirits sword. Eph 6:17 When some have the Spirit but not the word of God in themselves they lack wisdom and power. God is a judge of their hearts, not me. But I do warn for wrong teachers and teachings.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Mat 10:16
I think about this verse a lot. I am youthleader for 13 years and I see from young age on, differences between people. Some are aware of the battle between good and evil and some are not. The ones whom are aware of it (or have listen/applied teachings on this subject) do decline certain sin more easier and decline preachers, and ministers whom act not biblical. Maybe not the first time but they will see the truth. Persons whom are more naive and think that this battle is not that big, whom think THEY (focus not on God but on themselves) can go and live and do whatever, they are weak ones that can fall into a trap of a wrong spirit/doctrine. Others are closing the door for every spiritual act. So they decline the wrong and the good things. It reminds me of these verses:
It is not about what you can or cannot see (discern) here, it about your faith.
Do you have faith that God can (is able to)fill you with the Spirit, might even give the gift of tongues.....
The focus on fear instead of faith is not from God.
Does this whole gift issue and being filled with the Holy Spirit make more sense now? Why do you think especially with this filling of the Holy Spirit are so much wrongdoings? It is a battle between good and evil. De devil tries to defile the temple of the Lord. God says let the tares and wheat both grow. Mat 13:30 But remember also:
Jesus and others in the bible warned us that the Christians would suffer from false prophets, false teachers and false spirits. Jesus warns that the devil goes around “like a lion”, the devil appears as an angel of light, a false prophet, a fake (holy) spirit. But Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah.
So whom do you fear more....the devil or Jesus?
What if Jesus says: I want to fill you more and more with My Spirit? Do you fear Jesus enough to take Him on His word? I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Joh 14:16
The bible warns clearly about false prophets and ministers and we need to learn from it, not back down from it:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:21-23
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Act 20:29,30
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Hebr 13:7
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jud 1:11,12
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Hand 7:51
I doubt that the real is a plumb line. You read in the bible and doubt everything instead of reading, testing and asking God yourself. How can a human show you wrong or right in the Spirit? Only the Spirit can convince you, not men.
Also a “plumb line” was neither in the bible an issue to measure the right or fake. Only the bible and the Spirit are measures to know right from wrong. A plumb line, appearing in the right acted gift of the Holy Spirit, did not help persons to choose the right thing..........
For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. Act 8:7
But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: Acts 8:9
when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Act 8:17-20
Or purchase with, good deeds, nice attitude, knowledge, right denomination, theology, diet, or any effort. No plumb-line will help either. It is only about the heart.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Act 8:21-23
In general, seeing the right thing does not mean that people will recognize it, or act after it. The biggest example of people not recognizing the right thing although it walks in front of them is: Jesus. He is the Plumb-line, the way, the truth and the live and still people wander if it is right.
How much fake is not the issue. Fake has always been here, starting in Eden. What IS RIGHT is the issue.
The devil tries every time to deceive, God does not deceive. So what in this debate is happening a lot is the focus on evil or distracting from the bible. Go back all the pages and threads and see that what is written against the gifts of the Spirit is often internet articles and clips that display ridiculous things. Or written church language instead of plain explainable bible verses.
What do you think was the issue with the Pharisees in Jesus days? Their rules....their use of scripture...... was that about turning people to God or focusing on not to do wrong in any manner.
Think about it....
Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on Him? But this people who know not the law are cursed. Joh 7:48,49
Why do you think Jesus did mention in Mat 12: And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Did you see Jesus doing anything bad, or ridiculous there? Not at all. Still they the Scripture-law-knowers these so called bible-believing-Pharisees said He was acting out of a bad spirit. How come they could NOT recognize Him doing the right thing?
Think about it......
To focus on the bad stuff. Bad spirits, acting bad in church, wrong denominations, wrong movements, diving into signs of the times, focusing on the dark side of church and the world is a tactic of the devil to focus us on outward things so we do not see the stumble-block in our hearts that hinder God's Spirit to work freely. (Not just talking about gifts here...)
And God knocks on doors, asking to come and eat and drink. And many people say: “I am too busy” or “I think that is not for my time”, or “I think that is a wrong theology”. The issue is, do you only mind your own theological church business or do you dig for yourself into Gods word, Gods eating, Gods meal. Do you read Gods word as for YOU.
Every one that thirsts, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfies not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Is 55:1-4
Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse. Luc 14:16
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev 3:20
Do you really think ^this^ is only about accepting Gods salvation? Or only about the supper of the Lamb?
To say that many do NOT see what wrong spirits, tongues are, is not an argument to NOT research tongues in the bible, or to DENY speaking in tongues.
To say that there is too much fake is NOT an argument against the existence of the good tongues.
In a world of darkness.....the Light is shining for people whom want to see it. Unto the upright there arises light in the darkness: he is gracious, and full of compassion, and righteous. Psalm 112:4 It might take some time but the light will come.
I have talked about this a lot with my grandfather, former pastor. And he was the one whom always mentioned to me: Unto the upright there arises light in the darkness Psalm 112:4 My grandfather came as young man (18 years) out of a charismatic cult (just after WW2). He did ran away from church and God because of the wrongdoings of this cult-leader. Started drinking and smoking etc. Years later he returned to God went down on his knees and prayed to God Luc 11:11-13 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? And while praying this verse he started speaking in tongues. So you see how well I know how wrong things can be (heard awful stories of this charismatic cult-leader) but also that whom really wants to know from God, will receive from God.
I can only tell you my observations and from Gods word how things are working. I personally have no clue why I decline things (I sense wrong when I watch things) and others not. People that have spiritual interests and no interest in the bible will be weak and prey for spirits. Some will have issues to discern because Gods word is the Spirits sword. Eph 6:17 When some have the Spirit but not the word of God in themselves they lack wisdom and power. God is a judge of their hearts, not me. But I do warn for wrong teachers and teachings.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. Mat 10:16
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. Luc 8:14 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seems to have Luc 8:18
We can only receive good things from God. But when we do not receive or we receive and than let life, wrong things, cares, riches, pleasure take over our faith we will not receive anymore.
It is not about what you can or cannot see (discern) here, it about your faith.
Do you have faith that God can (is able to)fill you with the Spirit, might even give the gift of tongues.....
without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebr 11:6
hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, Is 55:1-4
The focus on fear instead of faith is not from God.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Tim 1:7
We need to exercise our senses, pray and walk. Not stand still and say because they act wrong I am not acting anymore because I might go wrong. In practical way it means: look and consider what you see, hear, go to. Is it all according to the bible?Hebr 5:4
Does this whole gift issue and being filled with the Holy Spirit make more sense now? Why do you think especially with this filling of the Holy Spirit are so much wrongdoings? It is a battle between good and evil. De devil tries to defile the temple of the Lord. God says let the tares and wheat both grow. Mat 13:30 But remember also:
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Petr 4:17
Jesus and others in the bible warned us that the Christians would suffer from false prophets, false teachers and false spirits. Jesus warns that the devil goes around “like a lion”, the devil appears as an angel of light, a false prophet, a fake (holy) spirit. But Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah.
So whom do you fear more....the devil or Jesus?
What if Jesus says: I want to fill you more and more with My Spirit? Do you fear Jesus enough to take Him on His word? I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Joh 14:16
The bible warns clearly about false prophets and ministers and we need to learn from it, not back down from it:
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:15,16
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:21-23
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Act 20:29,30
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Hebr 13:7
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jud 1:11,12
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaks great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost,Jud 1:16-20
My advise: ask God and read His word about it.
My advise: ask God and read His word about it.
K
If speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is demonic or false, then you have to throw out the 2/3 of the mewteastement written by Paul. Paul was not present nor saved on the day of Pentecost. He was Saul a christian killer at that time. Cornelious was not present, neither were the people of macedonia nor the Galatians nor the ephesians nor the Corinthians nor the Romans. Yet they all spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance and Paul taught to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit or do you pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to believe and call the rest a lie or demonic. enough already.
UMMM So what purpose does Paul have to tell the Corinthians that those sets of gifts would end if in fact they were not going to end till Jesus comes back? Why even tell them that if all it does is lead to confusion? Paul tells the Corinthians those gifts will cease. Paul is telling them they will cease because it will happen in THEIR lifetime. He is preparing them for that time. They are not to be surprised by it because he already told them that. It makes no sense otherwise to tell them that if they were to continue till Jesus comes back.
yes you have - it's a word you don't much care for: DOCTRINE.
a bad tree can not bear good fruit.
the bad tree - 'the miraculous gift of the Good News in 12 listed known languages (Acts 2), wasn't known languages it was unknowable GIBBERISH' = bad fruit/doctrine:
God gave 19th > 21st century ppl a "gift" of uttering gibberish as the evidence of "the spirit".
bad fruit:
confusion
schisms
syncretism
elitism
false prophets
false doctrines
blasphemies
a bad tree can not bear good fruit.
the bad tree - 'the miraculous gift of the Good News in 12 listed known languages (Acts 2), wasn't known languages it was unknowable GIBBERISH' = bad fruit/doctrine:
God gave 19th > 21st century ppl a "gift" of uttering gibberish as the evidence of "the spirit".
bad fruit:
confusion
schisms
syncretism
elitism
false prophets
false doctrines
blasphemies
"If speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance is demonic or false...." < tongues were actual human languages. we are told 12 examples (including each individual's local regional dialect)
do not accuse cessationists of saying the Miracle at Pentecost, subsequently displayed among the gentiles (as a sign for the jews) is demonic.
cessationists know it was an HOLY Miracle, from the HOLY GOD.
this is demonic:
[video=youtube;ixOr_bT0mOk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOr_bT0mOk[/video]
and has nothing to do with cessationism OR The Miracle of Languages (or for that matter true continuationism IF it had been God's intent - which it was not).
do not accuse cessationists of saying the Miracle at Pentecost, subsequently displayed among the gentiles (as a sign for the jews) is demonic.
cessationists know it was an HOLY Miracle, from the HOLY GOD.
this is demonic:
[video=youtube;ixOr_bT0mOk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOr_bT0mOk[/video]
and has nothing to do with cessationism OR The Miracle of Languages (or for that matter true continuationism IF it had been God's intent - which it was not).
People love to judge, and either excuse or condemn. God is the only one to judge.
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.
Judgments are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgments, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguments, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.
Judgments are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgments, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguments, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
B
There is much more to bearing good fruit. I could be a believer that was taught that tongues is an evidence of being filled with the Spirit. That's not good doctrine, but that will not stop the Spirit from shedding abroad the love of God in my heart to others. I love God with all my heart and I am able to receive grace and have an understanding of the things of God and I know that the gospel is about Christ and him crucified. I know that the Spirit dwells the believer at salvation but the filling of the Spirit to me may be something different because I believe it is evidence by the manifestation of tongues or even prophecy. I can really get off on that or I can be tempered with the gospel and doctrine of Christ and not make it an issue. I can have the fruit of love, joy and peace even though my understanding is immature and not sound concerning the gifts or manifestation of the Spirit and their purpose. The work of God in my heart has not stopped and if I am willing and obedient through the humility of faith to live by every word, God can use me and bear much fruit in the Spirit while I grow in grace and knowledge of him. To believe in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit does not make me carnal or spiritually dead in my thinking unless it becomes a standard of holiness or spirituality that I compare and legislate to others as a practice. So if a believer with this understanding is intreatable and bearing fruit with a heart toward God, give them time through patience for the Spirit to teach good and sound doctrine to them in this area through personal experience as they walk with God by faith.
UMMMM......
1 you do not answer really ever my questions.....
2 I asked specific: you build a DOGMA, TEACHING on ONE VERSE? Show me other verses please....
3 I explained why it is mentioned there (I guess you do not really read my answers and check your bible) and I will say something about it very shortly here...
1 Read the context.......
2 When this letter is (only) for Corinthians, (not for us) the warning is only for them and the ceasing too....
3 When tongues cease so does knowledge...I do not see knowledge is vanished yet...do you?
3 You do not prepare them to end tongues and at the same time encourage to do it, I don't think so...do you? ....
4 How can you be sure tongues did end with Paul, or....end with Corinthians...or....with John? Or...Cornelius kids...or.....
Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abides faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speak mysteries. But he that prophesies speaks unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 1Cor 13:8-14:3
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Act 2:39
What promise?
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:38
I hope you read my answers too, and not only from the persons you always back up especially on the issue of gifts.
We need fruit (gentleness) as well as the gift of the Spirit.....
I learned myself a lot from talking and chats with atheists, Muslims, Jehovah witnesses and New-agers. You can learn from your enemy (if you see me this way) so...when you do read my answer...take your bible....and look up the verses I mentioned before...please...
"It is written" is a very biblical way of argumentation, I do not see you use it.
We need fruit (gentleness) as well as the gift of the Spirit.....
I learned myself a lot from talking and chats with atheists, Muslims, Jehovah witnesses and New-agers. You can learn from your enemy (if you see me this way) so...when you do read my answer...take your bible....and look up the verses I mentioned before...please...
"It is written" is a very biblical way of argumentation, I do not see you use it.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Tim 3:16
B
When did those set of gifts cease in the lifetime of those believers that were addressed at Corinth? When did that which is perfect come in their lifetime? When was the final piece of the foundation laid and who confirmed the completion of that foundation? You need to be to know these things if you and others are going to make the claims that you making concerning these gifts being done away, which includes tongues and prophecy. Unclefester, would like to take shot as this? I would like to hear what you have to say specifically and not subjectively. Can you use the written word for your answers, as Zone is so adamant about, rightly so?
This question is directed towards those of you who think that the gift of tongues is the conveying of the ability to speak in another language, as opposed to the conveying of the ability to understand and speak of the works/mysteries of God.
How would you apply your thinking on this subject to Cornelius in Acts 10?
How would you apply your thinking on this subject to Cornelius in Acts 10?
I don't think another language was used in the story that you mentioned. I don't think that tongues, according to the Biblical definition, was used at all in this case. I don't see tongues as a mystery for it's a sign to those who have not received the wisdom of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Cornelius was a believer, so tongues wasn't used because it's not for those who believe. I don't see it as complicated. Pretty simple I say.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Cornelius was a believer, so tongues wasn't used because it's not for those who believe. I don't see it as complicated. Pretty simple I say.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Sorry Inge,
I have gone through it at least 20 times or more. I do NOT build it one verse. I am not going through it again and again only to have people either not read it.
Again the Bible speaks about 2 kinds of knowledge. 1 Corinthians is speaking on the SPIRITUAL GIFT of knowledge which is the context of the chapters,again people WANT to make it about ALL knowledge. And gain you end up with a problem if it as all KNOWLEDGE THEN you make it that the Old testament believers also HAD the spiritual gifts as some of the Psalms,Proverbs and others speaks of knowledge. Knowledge can also be learned.
I have gone through it at least 20 times or more. I do NOT build it one verse. I am not going through it again and again only to have people either not read it.
Again the Bible speaks about 2 kinds of knowledge. 1 Corinthians is speaking on the SPIRITUAL GIFT of knowledge which is the context of the chapters,again people WANT to make it about ALL knowledge. And gain you end up with a problem if it as all KNOWLEDGE THEN you make it that the Old testament believers also HAD the spiritual gifts as some of the Psalms,Proverbs and others speaks of knowledge. Knowledge can also be learned.