Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[presidente]

Are the prophecies personal to us, like "God said you will get that new job and a change is coming in your life"? That's so carnal and insulting to a true prophet of the Bible and God IMO.

Are the prophecies that go like "..and a wind will sweep through this church like fire and a river that will bring about a change in the coming seasons blah blah blah.." that make absolutely no sense and are so vague they could never be interpreted,

I guess this is a good example of a strawman. You come up with the idea of what you think a personal prophecy is like, and then you say how insulting to a true prophet it is. You were the one who imagined up the example in the first place.

God cares about us, and He can speak to us about whatever He cares to. If He has us speak to Him and ask for small mundane things like our daily bread, might He not speak to us to encourage us about such things? Who are we to tell God He can only communicate to His children about the 'big stuff'? Do you have that right?

Here is an example of a personal prophecy from the BIble.

I Samuel 9
5 When they reached the district of Zuph, Saul said to the servant who was with him, “Come, let’s go back, or my father will stop thinking about the donkeys and start worrying about us.”
6 But the servant replied, “Look, in this town there is a man of God; he is highly respected, and everything he says comes true. Let’s go there now. Perhaps he will tell us what way to take.”

7 Saul said to his servant, “If we go, what can we give the man? The food in our sacks is gone. We have no gift to take to the man of God. What do we have?”

8 The servant answered him again. “Look,” he said, “I have a quarter of a shekel of silver. I will give it to the man of God so that he will tell us what way to take.” 9 (Formerly in Israel, if someone went to inquire of God, they would say, “Come, let us go to the seer,” because the prophet of today used to be called a seer.)
(NIV)

....

19 “I am the seer,” Samuel replied. “Go up ahead of me to the high place, for today you are to eat with me, and in the morning I will send you on your way and will tell you all that is in your heart. 20 As for the donkeys you lost three days ago, do not worry about them; they have been found. And to whom is all the desire of Israel turned, if not to you and your whole family line?”
(NIV)

emphasis mine

Apparently people in Israel would enquire of the LORD through prophets back than even about such mundane things as lost donkeys. Neither Samuel nor the Lord rebuked Saul, as far as we see in scripture, for daring to enquire of the Lord about missing donkeys. Samuel even answered his question without being asked. Kings sometimes got personal prophecies before or after they became king. Paul got a personal prophecy from Agabus.

There are quite a variety of different kinds of prophecies. Sometimes prophecies for the congregation are Bible verses quoted or paraphrased, put together in a way that speaks to a certain issue. Some personal prophecies may be about ver specific issues.

I saw one man give many very specific personal prophecies to people he didn't know. Some of the people there were college students and many were guests from other churches. One young woman was going to work at a summer camp, and the prophecy was all about working at a summer camp. One married couple that did not know anyone there but myself got a prophecy about building a house on land. They were looking for land to build a house, and that is what the prophecy was about. He'd also prayed detailed things about them, and he prayed about certain things related to the man's electrical work. He was an electrician. There were no cards filled out or anything like that with this personal information, and I did not tell the man prophesying or anyone there these details about them.

There are also words of knowledge, which can include such things as God showing you details about other people and various other things. I've experienced this. I was praying for a man who came up for prayer at a kind of generic altar or something along those lines. I didn't know him. I wasn't from that city. But I got a word that he had a problem with headaches. Sure enough he did. He'd had horrific headaches on one side of his head since he was a child. I prayed for him. My wife sometimes knows what gift someone has by a word of knowledge. She told me the first time we had a conversation. She'll know other kinds of details. I've had situations, too, where I had things I'd like for her to see and understand, but I just prayed about it, and she came back to me telling me the list of things the Lord had spoken to her about, the same things I'd prayed about but in much more detail.

You posted all kinds of stuff abotu Kundalini. It seems like you can accept ideas like Kundalini. Do you accept what the Bible says about prophecy, that to one member of the body is given the word of knowledge, to another prophecy, etc? Why believe the pagan stuff is real, but not believe the Bible stuff for Christians?

 

[SarahM777]

ARE TONGUES HUMAN LANGUAGES?

It seems a couple of other things are often left out. Corinth was multi -lingual. When they spoke in other tongues wouldn't it have been the same thing as on Pentecost? [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]W[/FONT]ith Corinth being a PORT city it would not be outside the realm of possibility they were dealing with upwards of 30 different "tongues" So it makes sense that when someone from another part of the world would come they would speak in tongues so that person would hear the gospel in their own language,same thing as on Pentecost. But then does it make sense that in the church speaks the same language, that God knowing all things and knowing those churches speak a single language,if God is speaking to the body at large why then an unknown language as opposed to the language that all within that church body already knows? ​

 

[homwardbound]

From what I see, her interpretations make entirely more sense biblically and in God's eyes than the foolishness of those using one or two verses out of context.

She never said miracles don't happen. She said that the founding revelatory miracles used to confirm the New Testament are inactive.

She never said God is dead.

God is waiting for people to stop being rediculous and grow up from their infant Christian states of mind. We have all the prophecy and future revelation we need until Christ's return. What more do we need? Psychic predictions of earthquakes and natural disasters? I wouldn't think so. If you look in Job, Satan had power over weather, so those types of "prophecies" are probably demonic in origin as they serve the church very little purpose as far as what we are supposed to do by witnessing to people and sharing the Gospel.

Are the prophecies personal to us, like "God said you will get that new job and a change is coming in your life"? That's so carnal and insulting to a true prophet of the Bible and God IMO.

Are the prophecies that go like "..and a wind will sweep through this church like fire and a river that will bring about a change in the coming seasons blah blah blah.." that make absolutely no sense and are so vague they could never be interpreted, and usually follow with unbiblical things such as gibberish tongues and falling down "slayed in the spirit" and running around like madmen? Is that prophecy?

No one is forbidding speaking in tongues. We are forbidding faking the true gift which is not active today. What blows my mind is that, at least at first, people have to know they are faking it, but continue in it.

What we see today is not biblical; it's PAGAN:

KUNDALINI ENERGY is typically described as a powerful energy source lying dormant in the form of a coiled serpent at the base of the human spine. When freed it reputedly has the capacity to effect great physical and spiritual healings. Christina and Stanislav Grof, New Age authors of the book The Stormy Search for the Self, describe how the awakening of the Kundalini energy can be triggered by an advanced spiritual teacher or guru. And how the awakening can bring up memories of past psychological and physical traumas. The Grofs state that "individuals involved in this process might find it difficult to control their behavior; during powerful rushes of Kundalini energy, they often emit various involuntary sounds and their bodies move in strange and unexpected patterns. Among the most common manifestations ... are unmotivated and unnatural laughter or crying, talking tongues ... and imitating a variety of animal sounds and movements" (pp. 78-79). The Grofs state that "careful study of the manifestations of Kundalini awakening confirm that this process, although sometimes very intense and shattering, is essentially healing."

Bhaghan Shree Rajneesh, the former Oregon guru, tells one of his followers in his book Dance Your Way to God, "just be joyful ... God is not serious ... this world cannot fit with a theological god ... so let this be your constant reminder--that you have to dance your way to God, to laugh your way to God" (p. 229). Often referred to as being "drunk on the divine," Rajneesh encouraged his followers to come and "drink" from him. Bhagvan's spiritual "wine" was often passed along with a single touch to the head. Many of his Sannyasins would fall to the floor in ecstasy after their encounters with Rajneesh.

Ramakrishna, an Indian saint, daily went into "samadhi," a trance in which one involuntarily falls down unconscious and enters a rapturous state of super-conscious bliss (ananda), complete with beautiful visions and often involving astral projection. These states could last anywhere from a few minutes to several days and were often accompanied by uncontrollable laughter or weeping. He could send others into this state with a single touch to the head or chest" (unpublished article by John Rice on file at SCP).

Swami Baba Muktananda, would transfer what was called "guru's grace" to his followers through Shaktipat (physical touch). This "grace" triggered the gradual awakening of the Kundalini which in turn produced various physical and emotional manifestations. Manifestations included uncontrollable laughing, roaring, barking, hissing, crying, shaking, etc. Some devotees became mute or unconscious. Many felt themselves being infused with feelings of great joy and peace and love. At other times the "fire" of Kundalini was so overpowering they would find themselves involuntarily hyperventilating to cool themselves down. (Performer Muktananda follower Joy Smith.)

AFRICAN KUNG BUSHMEN OF THE KALAHAIR. The Grofs, in their book The Stormy Search for the Self, also cite an interesting parallel between the Kundalini awakening and the trance dance of the African Kung bushmen. During rituals the bushmen "enter a profound altered state of consciousness associated with the release of powerful emotions such as anger, anxiety, and fear. They are often unable to maintain an upright position and are overcome by violent shaking. Following these dramatic experiences, they typically enter a state of ecstatic rapture. According to the bushmen tradition, the dance releases from the base of the spine a cosmic healing force called ntum or `medicine.' This is then passed by direct physical contact from one person to another."

QIGONG (ancient Chinese practice). Yan Xin, a Chinese Qigong master known to most of the over one billion people in China, gave a talk in San Francisco in 1991. 1,700 devotees--most of them Chinese--showed up at the Masonic auditorium to listen to Yan. The San Francisco Chronicle on May 16, 1991, reported that "minutes" into his talk, several began experiencing what Yan calls spontaneous movements. The Chronicle reporter said that "before long, the scene began to resemble a Pentecostal prayer meeting with many people waving their arms and making unintelligible sounds." Yan told his audience, "Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations--or start laughing or crying. Don't worry. This is quite normal." The article said that "since 1985, when a Qigong revival started sweeping China, 50 to 60 million Chinese have gone to see Yan."

SUBUD. According to The Encyclopedia of American Religions by J. Gordon Melton, the central element of the Subud faith is the practice of "latihan." Latihan is the way one surrenders to the power of God. It is a group process. The Encyclopedia says, "The latihan proper is a time of moving the consciousness beyond mind and desire and allowing the power to enter and do its work ... often accompanying the spontaneous period are various body movements and vocal manifestations--cries, moans, laughter and singing. These occur in the voluntary surrender of the self to the power. During this time, people report sensations of love and freedom and often, healings. All reach a higher level of consciousness.

O Timothy magazine, Volume 12, Issue 3, 1995. David W. Cloud, Editor

Thanks, and so there is a separation of truth and error. There are fakes there are those that are real. period as is what I have stated before. Therefore we are not to forbid others from speaking in tongues or Prophesy, in fact we are to encourage Prophesy, and be led by God in the Spirit of God, today speaking truth in Christ.
And this discussion has gone in the way of that God is constrained to the Bible, tied up in the book and does not talk to us today.
That is not truth. God is Love and Love goes beyond the Bible and God can't be limited to a book.

 

[homwardbound]

Are none involved in this stuff terrified by these verses because none of them can provide proof of there being a difference in real and fake?

Galatians 1
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. 10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared

Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Thessalonians 2
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 Peter 5
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Matthew 16
1 And the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and to test him they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. 2 He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ 3 And in the morning, ‘It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. 4 An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Facts are facts and these verses are as so. So study thyself to be approved, These post come off as others are not in belief to God when they are in belief to God through the Christ. Please be careful as to what you imply if you are implying others can't be saved if they do this or that. or have you forgotten that he died for you too, and forgave you all your trespasses. I could be wrong here to as your intention, but please make sure your intention is right before God. Thanks all in love to you from God and me for he died for me too as well as all the world.
God does just love us all, can we not respond to this and seek to help one another and stop the condemnation
Or do we not see this below:

Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.

Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.


Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

 

[homwardbound]

2 Timothy 4
1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Acts 2
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, “Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?” 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

2 Timothy 3
1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith.

2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

So tell me what makes you right, and the others here wrong. And as quoted please post as you see to be truth, yet with patience
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching

Now how would that be, in Love or condemnation?
Romans 8:1 [ Free from Indwelling Sin ] There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—

Is the Holy Spirit alive today and comes to live in us or not? To do what teach us what? Truth over error right?
For who is our Teacher , God right? Hebrews pretty clear on this.

 

[homwardbound]

ARE TONGUES HUMAN LANGUAGES?

Yes to me they are and there are many different languages in use still and some are not anymore as Aramaic, that Jesus Spoke in.
Regardless, if need be, God wants to use me for an unknown Language, unknown to me and speak through me as he did through the Apostles on the day of Pentecost, for God's reason then it shall be.
For God ahs used me as God sees fit in many of the gifts, and I am thankful to God and God alone.
Knowing God is and has all God needs, which truthfully God has never needed us, plainly just loves us all.
Thanks

 

[homwardbound]

hands out miracles?

i've never said God doesn't perform miracles.

is God dead or alive? typical.

z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z

you haven't even obeyed the gospel to be baptized yet so i don't even know why i'm talking to such a disobedient person.



ha? waiting for what?



i don't forbid anyone to.
they go right on ahead regardless.

FILL YOUR BOOTS.

which languages do you speak home?

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the straight out accusation of condemnation. I take those stripes, and love you anyway.
Keep them coming, I can't have enough suffering yet.
God bless you and I do pray for your happiness in Christ forever
Glad to know you do not forbid others to have the gifts, so can you please be clear on this, and state this each time that you know tongues are real from God and can be displayed by God still to this very day.
And state the difference of what is fake and what is not? God is not in a box is God?

 

[zone]

Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—

Is the Holy Spirit alive today and comes to live in us or not? To do what teach us what? Truth over error right?
For who is our Teacher , God right? Hebrews pretty clear on this.

what's mark 3:29 tossed in there for?
the typical threat that cessationism is the unpardonable sin? course....standard.
i'll make a suggestion.

go find any of those charismatic videos where ppl are staggering around howling and peeping and saying "I the Lord say to you".... and tell me who is in danger. that's either GOD WORKING or it isn't.

 

[zone]

Yes to me they are and there are many different languages in use still and some are not anymore as Aramaic, that Jesus Spoke in.
Regardless, if need be, God wants to use me for an unknown Language, unknown to me and speak through me as he did through the Apostles on the day of Pentecost, for God's reason then it shall be.
For God ahs used me as God sees fit in many of the gifts, and I am thankful to God and God alone.
Knowing God is and has all God needs, which truthfully God has never needed us, plainly just loves us all.
Thanks

great...so you agree the Pentecostal miracle was The Wonderful Works of God heard in the languages of the devout disapora JEWS gathered in Jerusalem. makes sense since they're even listed for us.

and if God decides to suddenly send power from High to me, and have me miraculously begin to proclaim the Wonderful Works of God in a known language i never learned, i'll be the first to let you know.

 

[zone]

words of worldly wisdom is foolishness with God. It really is simple either you believe or you do not? You have already said you do not believe God hands out miracles today anymore. So is God dead or alive? What is God waiting for then.
And why do you FORBID others to speak in tongues as it clearly states to not to FORBID speaking in tongues?

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the straight out accusation of condemnation. I take those stripes, and love you anyway.
Keep them coming, I can't have enough suffering yet.
God bless you and I do pray for your happiness in Christ forever

Glad to know you do not forbid others to have the gifts, so can you please be clear on this, and state this each time that you know tongues are real from God and can be displayed by God still to this very day.
And state the difference of what is fake and what is not? God is not in a box is God?

oh puleeze. you don't seem to remember what you post from one day to the next home.
take a look at your first post

~

"so can you please be clear on this, and state this each time that you know tongues are real from God and can be displayed by God still to this very day."

i state clearly tongues are real LANGUAGES, since that's what they WERE.

they CAN be displayed by God to this day, if that is His intent.

can you find that He is doing that today? i haven't yet....

which is in perfect keeping with what the Gospels and Acts and the epistles state.

this is a serious matter, home.
gravely serious.

stop acting like you are getting "stripes" on an internet forum discussion board(from the comfort of your den or wherever you are) - another example of how people today DEGRADE what stripes were, and are, and the ppl who really got and get them....like Paul here (not to mention Jesus...how dare you incidentally):

2 Corinthians 11:25
Paul's Sufferings and Service
24Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. 26I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;

 

[zone]

And state the difference of what is fake and what is not? God is not in a box is God?

i would assume you would know what's fake and what isn't.
The Spirit of Truth ought to be testifying to that.

God in a box?

*cough*

God placed Himself "in a box" when HE PLANNED how things would go.

you think maybe people today are trying to drag God out of HIS OWN "box" (concerning Christ's 12/discples and their witness and power - now the NEW TESTAMENT)....and make HIM do things He isn't doing and didn't say He would do?

the God in a box thing is lame. and dangerous.

 

[ForthAngel]

I guess this is a good example of a strawman. You come up with the idea of what you think a personal prophecy is like, and then you say how insulting to a true prophet it is. You were the one who imagined up the example in the first place.

God cares about us, and He can speak to us about whatever He cares to. If He has us speak to Him and ask for small mundane things like our daily bread, might He not speak to us to encourage us about such things? Who are we to tell God He can only communicate to His children about the 'big stuff'? Do you have that right?

Here is an example of a personal prophecy from the BIble.

6 But the servant replied, “Look, in this town there is a man of God; he is highly respected, and everything he says comes true. Let’s go there now. Perhaps he will tell us what way to take.”

Is the same true for the prophets today? Not one of you who say prophets still exist have given proof of one infallible prophet.

Apparently people in Israel would enquire of the LORD through prophets back than even about such mundane things as lost donkeys. Neither Samuel nor the Lord rebuked Saul, as far as we see in scripture, for daring to enquire of the Lord about missing donkeys. Samuel even answered his question without being asked. Kings sometimes got personal prophecies before or after they became king. Paul got a personal prophecy from Agabus.

They didn't have the completed written word of God aka the complete sealed book of prophecies from then til Jesus' return. We have a book that tells us beginning to end, they didn't. We have all we need. I'm open to God sending more miracles our way. I'm just not seeing them. I do believe in personal "revelations" through prayer and study of the bible that will always do nothing more than teach us something we formerly were missing regarding the Word.

I saw one man give many very specific personal prophecies to people he didn't know. Some of the people there were college students and many were guests from other churches. One young woman was going to work at a summer camp, and the prophecy was all about working at a summer camp. One married couple that did not know anyone there but myself got a prophecy about building a house on land. They were looking for land to build a house, and that is what the prophecy was about. He'd also prayed detailed things about them, and he prayed about certain things related to the man's electrical work. He was an electrician. There were no cards filled out or anything like that with this personal information, and I did not tell the man prophesying or anyone there these details about them.

Familiar spirits communicate with one another. This isn't prophecy, but sharing of information by them about those involved in the "prophecy". I would love to believe that this was real prophecies that this man was giving, but again, the burden of proof falls on you. Prove it. Hearsay proves absolutely nothing.

There are also words of knowledge, which can include such things as God showing you details about other people and various other things. I've experienced this. I was praying for a man who came up for prayer at a kind of generic altar or something along those lines. I didn't know him. I wasn't from that city. But I got a word that he had a problem with headaches. Sure enough he did. He'd had horrific headaches on one side of his head since he was a child. I prayed for him. My wife sometimes knows what gift someone has by a word of knowledge. She told me the first time we had a conversation. She'll know other kinds of details. I've had situations, too, where I had things I'd like for her to see and understand, but I just prayed about it, and she came back to me telling me the list of things the Lord had spoken to her about, the same things I'd prayed about but in much more detail.

Familiar spirits. Did you have a profound vision and God speaking directly to you? Did he sound like thunder? Did he send an angel that sounded like trumpets? Don't you think spirits can't tell you things? You know a lot of times in the bible, physical ailments were also caused by demonic spirits. Who is to say that her headache wasn't caused by one, and your "word of knowledge" wasn't just info passed from one spirit to the next and then to you? How do you test it?

You posted all kinds of stuff abotu Kundalini. It seems like you can accept ideas like Kundalini. Do you accept what the Bible says about prophecy, that to one member of the body is given the word of knowledge, to another prophecy, etc? Why believe the pagan stuff is real, but not believe the Bible stuff for Christians?

I do accept what the bible says. It seems you are one of the ones who are incapable of accepting it. I don't believe we are seeing true prophecy or gifts today that helped to found the New Testament. If it's happening, prove it. It should be really simple to do, right? I think God still works and I think he still communicates with us. He does this through answered prayers, sending certain people our way, we can communicate in our prayers, etc. Is God sounding trumpets and appearing in pillars of fire or profound undeniable visions? No, I don't think so. Are miracles still happening? Sure, I think they are.

Like I said already, I believe in personal revelations that will lead us on the path God has chosen for us, give us insight into his Word, answered prayers, chance meetings with people that make a difference, even healing (not instantaneous). We don't see miraculous instant healing, we don't see dead people being resurrected, we don't see entire cities being burned up with fire from heaven, we don't see people miraculously speaking every known human language, etc.

I think what we are seeing is familiar spirits working deception in the minds of those who refuse to see the truth. Their faith in God is based on this and this as a foundation is not stable. I've talked to several people already who have admitted to faking tongues and their are countless other testimonies of this. Why can't anyone in their churches tell the difference in real and fake? Every forerunner of these types of churches has been debunked. One failed prophecy makes them a false prophet according to God. Why do people still follow in their wake?

 

[ForthAngel]

Thanks, and so there is a separation of truth and error. There are fakes there are those that are real. period as is what I have stated before. Therefore we are not to forbid others from speaking in tongues or Prophesy, in fact we are to encourage Prophesy, and be led by God in the Spirit of God, today speaking truth in Christ.
And this discussion has gone in the way of that God is constrained to the Bible, tied up in the book and does not talk to us today.
That is not truth. God is Love and Love goes beyond the Bible and God can't be limited to a book.

How do you tell the difference? You seem to know.

 

[ForthAngel]

So tell me what makes you right, and the others here wrong. And as quoted please post as you see to be truth, yet with patience
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching

Now how would that be, in Love or condemnation?
Romans 8:1 [ Free from Indwelling Sin ] There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Mark 3:29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—

Is the Holy Spirit alive today and comes to live in us or not? To do what teach us what? Truth over error right?
For who is our Teacher , God right? Hebrews pretty clear on this.

The forerunners, and even the followers who claim what the forerunners do, as far as prophecy and tongues, are easily debunked by scripture. I'm sorry you can't see that. This is a serious matter.

 

[Stephen63]

The forerunners, and even the followers who claim what the forerunners do, as far as prophecy and tongues, are easily debunked by scripture. I'm sorry you can't see that. This is a serious matter.

Really? Then I suggest somebody start using some of those "easy debunkable scriptures" & quit using random twisted scripture & hate sites on the internet,'cause somebody's been wastin' a lot of time on trash instead of treasure.

 

[zone]

Really? Then I suggest somebody start using some of those "easy debunkable scriptures" & quit using random twisted scripture & hate sites on the internet,'cause somebody's been wastin' a lot of time on trash instead of treasure.

THIS:

[video=youtube;whpHwKlM_8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpHwKlM_8M[/video]

IS NOT THIS:

Acts 2
5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”

 

[vic1980]

Tongues speaking, means another language you do not know that others have. Example i speak spanish & english if a chinese person comes to me and i conversate with him , in his language without knowing the language then i am speaking in Tongues.



God bless

 

[presidente]

what's mark 3:29 tossed in there for?
the typical threat that cessationism is the unpardonable sin? course....standard.
i'll make a suggestion.

go find any of those charismatic videos where ppl are staggering around howling and peeping and saying "I the Lord say to you".... and tell me who is in danger. that's either GOD WORKING or it isn't.

Zone, I don't believe we will be handcuffed to partners on the day of judgment, but if we did, I might choose to be handcuffed to Jeffry Dahmer over some of the cessationist posters in this thread. At least Dahmer reportedly repented and was baptized. Murder, cannibalism, and homosexual behavior are not unpardonable sins.

Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God. But certain of his opponents said he was doing so by the prince of devils. The Lord warned them that whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or in the world to come. He did not qualify it saying that it had to be done in ignorance or when he was physically present.

I am concerned when cessationists claim that all miracles being done are demonic, or all speaking in tongues, or all prophesying. There may be demonic versions of all these things going on, but such words condemn the works of the Spirit as well, and may be accusing the Holy Spirit of being a demon as well.

The context where Christ addressed this issue had to do with accusing the Spirit who was working through Christ of being a demon. But it may be possible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming that a demon is the Holy Spirit, and we need to take care in that regard as well. Some Muslim apologetists would call Muhammad of being the comforter Jesus prophesied about. (Perhaps unaware that they are doing what their own religion calls 'shirk'). Irenaeus considered calling a man the paraklete to be irremissible.

 

[ForthAngel]

Zone, I don't believe we will be handcuffed to partners on the day of judgment, but if we did, I might choose to be handcuffed to Jeffry Dahmer over some of the cessationist posters in this thread. At least Dahmer reportedly repented and was baptized. Murder, cannibalism, and homosexual behavior are not unpardonable sins.

Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God. But certain of his opponents said he was doing so by the prince of devils. The Lord warned them that whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or in the world to come. He did not qualify it saying that it had to be done in ignorance or when he was physically present.

I am concerned when cessationists claim that all miracles being done are demonic, or all speaking in tongues, or all prophesying. There may be demonic versions of all these things going on, but such words condemn the works of the Spirit as well, and may be accusing the Holy Spirit of being a demon as well.

The context where Christ addressed this issue had to do with accusing the Spirit who was working through Christ of being a demon. But it may be possible to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming that a demon is the Holy Spirit, and we need to take care in that regard as well. Some Muslim apologetists would call Muhammad of being the comforter Jesus prophesied about. (Perhaps unaware that they are doing what their own religion calls 'shirk'). Irenaeus considered calling a man the paraklete to be irremissible.

Hi Presendente. You make a good point here. I'd like to say that I am not wholly accusing here. I am laying out a possibility to help those who may be in bondage to something they don't realize they are in bondage to. The question we are all trying to address is how do we know? According to scripture, we simply don't see the miracles that were being performed then being performed now. If it's not the miracles that were being performed at Pentecost, or true prophecy that does something backed up by scripture, or if the prophet fails even one time, we are to label them as false prophets according to scripture and not heed anything they say.

Regarding the gifts that were used to found the New Testament, I am not opposed to them. I simply don't see them according to scripture. What we see today is different. If it was happening now, it would be awesome, but I just don't see it. If it isn't from God, where is it from? It's either fabrications imagined by human minds, liars, and fakers, or it's demonic, or both. That's if it isn't from God.

The big question is - how do we know? How do you know? Can this question even be answered?

 

[ForthAngel]

The point is, scripture does not back up what we see today.

Also, most, if not all, of the founders and forerunners of these types of movements have been debunked with failed prophecy. This being true, why would anyone in their right mind keep following in their wake? The biblical warnings about this are eternally severe.