Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rituals when they know Jesus?
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You didn't say I am judging people like you, Redtent. And "back to the shadows". That would be back to all that the OT used because it had not been fulfilled yet, everything they called a shadow. You did say that was ridiculous.
Are you accusing me of saying that Christ did not come in the flesh? I am assuming that instead you are speaking against Moses. I feel I must object when you list the Holy Spirit as being against the law, each time you tell all people these things on the net. We must listen to the law through the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit leads us to the law. We are to learn of sin and stand firmly against it. Sin is spelled out for us, and when you go on about the law of Moses as not being about identifying sin, I object.
It is true that I talk about, please, all who love the Lord, anything you do in your life to draw closer to the Lord, please do it. It is standing firm against the demons that are roaming free in our streets because Christians aren't identifying sin. There is much, much to be said about what is in our hearts, but we need what we do, also. So sue me!!! Tell me that is what the shadow is made of and must go. I don't think that order comes from God.
Are you accusing me of saying that Christ did not come in the flesh? I am assuming that instead you are speaking against Moses. I feel I must object when you list the Holy Spirit as being against the law, each time you tell all people these things on the net. We must listen to the law through the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit leads us to the law. We are to learn of sin and stand firmly against it. Sin is spelled out for us, and when you go on about the law of Moses as not being about identifying sin, I object.
It is true that I talk about, please, all who love the Lord, anything you do in your life to draw closer to the Lord, please do it. It is standing firm against the demons that are roaming free in our streets because Christians aren't identifying sin. There is much, much to be said about what is in our hearts, but we need what we do, also. So sue me!!! Tell me that is what the shadow is made of and must go. I don't think that order comes from God.
H
To Redtent I am trying to research The name Tom Bradford , but I'm not finding much ,so far. I did find some interesting things and testimonies from people who help Jewish settlers in Israel, but there is no word of Jesus in their statements, so I think , they are not Christions . why help Jews who are not Christians? We can not learn anything good from Jews who are still worshiping in the Old Testament way. If you go to "friends of Israel" site, you can see Jews who are converted to Jesus and therefore they are worth reading about. Most Jews are still lost in sin and going to Hell. NOW, if you think that is unloving and not christian of me,I would question your christianity. What Jesus do you love? I love and follow the Jesus of the N.T.. If you don't say YES, to this thread, then I doubt your christianity. Sorry, I am not playing games with the Bible ,I believe the N.T. as God's final revelation to mankind. Love to all. Hoffco
You are assuming. You know what that does, don't you? It makes an ass out of u and me.
The Holy Spirit is not against the Law and you have NEVER seen a post by me saying that. The Holy Spirit fulfills the Law.
The Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to the Law. The Holy Spirit leads us to the Lord Jesus Christ. The Way, The Truth and The Life.
You Know, the Spirit gives life... but the letter kills...
Learn of sin??? How silly. How many ever had to learn how to sin???
We are to Learn of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He does for us. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not against the Law and you have NEVER seen a post by me saying that. The Holy Spirit fulfills the Law.
The Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to the Law. The Holy Spirit leads us to the Lord Jesus Christ. The Way, The Truth and The Life.
You Know, the Spirit gives life... but the letter kills...
Learn of sin??? How silly. How many ever had to learn how to sin???
We are to Learn of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He does for us. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
H
To Redtent, the more you talk, the less credible you sound. It is incredible, how you can go around circles and never say any thing that is substantial. Time to show your hand or fold them, and walk away. I love that song by Kenny Rogers. Please, you, tell, us; what passed away and what remained when Jesus began the New Cov.. A clue, use the book of Galatians ch.4:9-11,and the book of Hebrews chs. 1-10. It is very clear, what is "obsolete". also, Romans chs. 14&15 will help. Please state what part of the law does the Holy Spirit want us to keep and what part of the law does the Holy Spirit want is to throw away ? To me ,it is elementary. Love to all. Hoffco
Red Tent.
What part of the atonement did not cover all of the O.T?
Murder? - It covered that.
Adultery? It covered that.
Covetousness? - It covered that.
Now, since it covered these huge things, why do you insist it doesn't cover those ceremonial laws?
Paul said "Of which were some of you" concerning people who had murdered.
Does that mean they can go on murdering? GOD FORBID!
What sins do you think are covered by keeping those ceremonial signs of the coming Messiah?
None?
They cover none?
- Then why do you persist in keeping them?
Honestly,.....you should go find a perfectly red heifer and burn it. (That way you'd have the ashes to do the really important stuff in the Mosaic law. (Which Jesus has already completed).
What part of the atonement did not cover all of the O.T?
Murder? - It covered that.
Adultery? It covered that.
Covetousness? - It covered that.
Now, since it covered these huge things, why do you insist it doesn't cover those ceremonial laws?
Paul said "Of which were some of you" concerning people who had murdered.
Does that mean they can go on murdering? GOD FORBID!
What sins do you think are covered by keeping those ceremonial signs of the coming Messiah?
None?
They cover none?
- Then why do you persist in keeping them?
Honestly,.....you should go find a perfectly red heifer and burn it. (That way you'd have the ashes to do the really important stuff in the Mosaic law. (Which Jesus has already completed).
OK thanks for the well wishes, but I don't beleive in luck. Anyhoo, this "type of vain, empty and worthless form of worship" is the method we are to learn from...
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Jewish rituals come from the Talmud not the Scriptures, you guys probably think the Sabbath is for the jews?
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place; ministering position with power, and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; de filing, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to hMy holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer."
Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing dany evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which eplease Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place; ministering position with power, and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; de filing, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to hMy holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer."
I Cor. 10:7 - "Neither be ye idolators" - - - - "Wherefore let him that thinks he stand listen lest he fall."(I Cor. 10:12)
Sounds like doctrine to me.
Now, was Paul writing to keep the law? Or that Christ had fulfilled it? (And therefor have faith in His perfect life)
You tell me.
Where is the wilderness? (I Cor. 10:5) - It is the world
What is that spiritual meat, and spiritual drink? (I Cor. 10:3,4) :
Was it the law or was it Jesus Christ?
Sounds like doctrine to me.
Now, was Paul writing to keep the law? Or that Christ had fulfilled it? (And therefor have faith in His perfect life)
You tell me.
Where is the wilderness? (I Cor. 10:5) - It is the world
What is that spiritual meat, and spiritual drink? (I Cor. 10:3,4) :
Was it the law or was it Jesus Christ?
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Many people misunderstand Shauls writings because lack of historical understanding, poor translations, or how he writes.
In Shaul's day men were killed for keeping Sabbath, not eating pork, Feast Day's, etc.
The Romans had a goddess named Circe, Circe used to turn men into pigs and eat them. So in honor of Circe the Romans would feed dead bodies to pigs and sell the meat at the markets, do you think Shaul would have said yeah go eat the Circe pig meat that has trichanosis (sp) parasite in it that can be cooked at 180deg. for 30 and still live and plant eggs in the human body? I could go on and on about all these topics, but I will stop now. We need to go more than 1 layed deep.
Many people misunderstand Shauls writings because lack of historical understanding, poor translations, or how he writes.
In Shaul's day men were killed for keeping Sabbath, not eating pork, Feast Day's, etc.
The Romans had a goddess named Circe, Circe used to turn men into pigs and eat them. So in honor of Circe the Romans would feed dead bodies to pigs and sell the meat at the markets, do you think Shaul would have said yeah go eat the Circe pig meat that has trichanosis (sp) parasite in it that can be cooked at 180deg. for 30 and still live and plant eggs in the human body? I could go on and on about all these topics, but I will stop now. We need to go more than 1 layed deep.
Well, I don't know who 'Shaul' is, but Paul said:
1 Corinthians 10:25-28 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
Didn't 'Shaul' know about Circe and Pig trichinosis? - (Apparently not)
1 Corinthians 10:25-28 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
Didn't 'Shaul' know about Circe and Pig trichinosis? - (Apparently not)
You are serious about knowing the bible? I so wish it was how it is. Tom would take you to Christ from the time of creation, then would tie Christ in the OT to the Christ who fulfilled in the NT as you learn. It wouldn't be "Jewish" but what the principles of God the Father is, God's plan for our salvation from the first. Everything about the Jews not knowing Christ is the Messiah would be left for the emerging church of the first century to handle, you wouldn't be part of that at all, that would be left to the Jews in this study, but it would be a study of God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost and how that applies to your salvation. You would need someone who has studied the culture and times that God used to explain the beginnings. God has helped us bridge the gap that time has made between us and the time of Abraham, for instance with the dead sea scrolls. Those scrolls weren't even buried, but in plain sight for centuries but now found.
God is I AM, nothing is new about God. The scrolls add no new information. They opened up ancient language so the old documents can be read. We lost understanding of what was because so much time separated us, what is new is learning to read so we know what they meant by such as "covenant of salt", and such things.
I notice that community colleges are giving classes on ancient Hebrew, somewhat different from modern Hebrew. I found college courses on line giving history of the ancient world but they are expensive. Tom's course is college level and free, but not for the "Christ saved me, now I don't need to learn or do anything more" crowd. Tom tries to keep any interpretation of scripture out to plain study, but he has personal thoughts you have to get around even so. You would find him at "torahclass".
From your posts I get the impression that you have dug into your personal view of Christ, and scripture be hanged, especially if that scripture is part of God as God was as He prepared the world for Christ.
God is I AM, nothing is new about God. The scrolls add no new information. They opened up ancient language so the old documents can be read. We lost understanding of what was because so much time separated us, what is new is learning to read so we know what they meant by such as "covenant of salt", and such things.
I notice that community colleges are giving classes on ancient Hebrew, somewhat different from modern Hebrew. I found college courses on line giving history of the ancient world but they are expensive. Tom's course is college level and free, but not for the "Christ saved me, now I don't need to learn or do anything more" crowd. Tom tries to keep any interpretation of scripture out to plain study, but he has personal thoughts you have to get around even so. You would find him at "torahclass".
From your posts I get the impression that you have dug into your personal view of Christ, and scripture be hanged, especially if that scripture is part of God as God was as He prepared the world for Christ.
People who have studied scripture so extensively that they know the old way of spelling sometimes use that spelling, not thinking about that others don't take that much time for study, so they spell Paul Shaul.
Many people in Paul's day didn't consider pork food. Paul was intent on making the gospel accepted by pagans who felt that if it meant what they ate, they preferred their old diet. Gospel was important, not diet. Paul did not say that you may not use food as a symbol of what God wants of us. If pork who ate refuse symbolized uncleanliness, Paul did not say that abstaining from unclean meat could not be used to symbolize that. God had suggested we do that, Paul pointed out the point that was important was the spiritual point, you could eat that meat and still be clean, spiritually.
Many people in Paul's day didn't consider pork food. Paul was intent on making the gospel accepted by pagans who felt that if it meant what they ate, they preferred their old diet. Gospel was important, not diet. Paul did not say that you may not use food as a symbol of what God wants of us. If pork who ate refuse symbolized uncleanliness, Paul did not say that abstaining from unclean meat could not be used to symbolize that. God had suggested we do that, Paul pointed out the point that was important was the spiritual point, you could eat that meat and still be clean, spiritually.
Apparently this line of thinking excludes the context of this and other of Paul's writings. Just use it as you wish to support any doctrinal error you wish...
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
The subject here is meat offered to idols.
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
The subject here is meat offered to idols.
1 Corinthians 10:25-29, "Everything that is being sold in the meat market, do not eat; ask questions on account of your conscience,
26 NOT IN ANY ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT
If any of those who are unbelievers invites you, and you want to go, everything that is being presented to you,
do not eat; ask questions on account of your conscience. And if anyone says to you: This was offered to gods do not eat it, not only for the sake of the one who informed you, but also for your own knowledge. Now, I say knowledge, not only that of your own, but that of the other also. For why should our liberty be determined by another's concept of what
is right?"
Lets be logical HE JUST SAID 4 VERSES BEFORE!
1 Corinthians 10:21, "You cannot drink the cup of Yahweh and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of Yahweh's table and of the table of demons."
do not eat; ask questions on account of your conscience
And if anyone says to you: This was offered to gods do not eat it
26 NOT IN ANY ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT
If any of those who are unbelievers invites you, and you want to go, everything that is being presented to you,
do not eat; ask questions on account of your conscience. And if anyone says to you: This was offered to gods do not eat it, not only for the sake of the one who informed you, but also for your own knowledge. Now, I say knowledge, not only that of your own, but that of the other also. For why should our liberty be determined by another's concept of what
is right?"
Lets be logical HE JUST SAID 4 VERSES BEFORE!
1 Corinthians 10:21, "You cannot drink the cup of Yahweh and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of Yahweh's table and of the table of demons."
do not eat; ask questions on account of your conscience
And if anyone says to you: This was offered to gods do not eat it