Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rituals when they know Jesus?

[Praus]

I find this subject interesting, could someone post a Jewish ritual here?

This one is really cool, not just Jewish, it applies to all of Abraham's descendants.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-people-worshiping-sunday-19.html#post1152310

Since animal sacrifice is so "interesting", I bring you this:

Gen 17:9 And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” (ESV)

You'll need flint, bridegroom.

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, ... (ESV)

Ex 4:24 At a lodging place on the way the LORD met him and sought to put him to death. 25 Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it and said, “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” 26 So he let him alone. It was then that she said, “A bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision. (ESV)

The Levitical commandment is maybe not at poetic as Exodus 4.

Lev 12:1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, ‘If a woman conceives and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days. As at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. (ESV)

So circumcise away if the New Covenant of the Blood of the Lamb isn't compelling enough.

Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (ESV)

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation, (ESV)

 

[Praus]

I find this subject interesting, could someone post a Jewish ritual here?

Here's a ritual from Israel in 2006, so you know it's the real deal.

In English it translates to "beating Rabbis who disagree with your political goals".

[video=youtube;YBNMDjj5LKc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNMDjj5LKc[/video]

 

[john832]

This one is really cool, not just Jewish, it applies to all of Abraham's descendants.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-people-worshiping-sunday-19.html#post1152310

Since animal sacrifice is so "interesting", I bring you this:

Gen 17:9 And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” (ESV)

You'll need flint, bridegroom.

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, ... (ESV)

Ex 4:24 At a lodging place on the way the LORD met him and sought to put him to death. 25 Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it and said, “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” 26 So he let him alone. It was then that she said, “A bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision. (ESV)

So, the type (physical circumcision) which God Commanded should not be carried out in anti-type today? This was a useless ritual?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Here we see that circumcision was a type of the seal of the Holy Spirit when our heart is circumcised.

The Levitical commandment is maybe not at poetic as Exodus 4.

Lev 12:1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, ‘If a woman conceives and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days. As at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. 3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. (ESV)

So circumcise away if the New Covenant of the Blood of the Lamb isn't compelling enough.

Luke 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (ESV)

Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation, (ESV)

View attachment 55736

Praus, my friend, you have danced all around the schoolmaster here and not recognized it as the teacher who foreshadowed Christ.

 

[Praus]

So, the type (physical circumcision) which God Commanded should not be carried out in anti-type today? This was a useless ritual?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Here we see that circumcision was a type of the seal of the Holy Spirit when our heart is circumcised.

Praus, my friend, you have danced all around the schoolmaster here and not recognized it as the teacher who foreshadowed Christ.

I find this subject interesting, could someone post a Jewish ritual here?

So you asked for "interesting", if it's not interesting that doesn't make it useless, it makes it not interesting to you.

I don't know anything about dancing around either. And I disagree that you are the teacher who foreshadowed Christ, teacher.

 

[john832]

So you asked for "interesting", if it's not interesting that doesn't make it useless, it makes it not interesting to you.

I do find this subject interesting, sorry if you don't. I find it fascinating how the ceremonial laws pointed to very deep Spiritual fulfillments. Type and anti-type.

I don't know anything about dancing around either. And I disagree that you are the teacher who foreshadowed Christ, teacher.

I did not say I was the teacher, what I was showing is that physical requirements like circumcision (but not limited to) were the teacher, the schoolmaster to show the Spiritual fulfillments in the New Covenant. Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

[danschance]

Jewish ritual/ceremonial and dietary laws are of no spiritual benefit to anyone.

Those Judaizers, who keep them ignore that fact that Christ set us free from them and deny the complete work Christ did for us on the cross.

If you want to keep jewish ceremonial festivals, celebrations and sabbaths, abstain from unclean foods and keep circumcision-- then you deny Col. 2:16

Good luck with that type of vain, empty and worthless form of worship.

 

[danschance]

Here is a useless Jewish ritual.

[video=youtube;UAGNnqyNidY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAGNnqyNidY[/video]

 

[kenneth53]

God expects Jews, as He does everyone else to trust in what Christ did for them on the cross to enable them to enter Heaven, He does not want anyone to believe rite, ritual or ceremony can earn someone eternity in Heaven, even in part. It is why you do these things that matters, not the fact you do them.

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus came to teach us all how to live, i think thats how God wants All to live.

Could this be dependent on Father in all things as Christ showed us with the Holy Ghost telling him what the Father wanted and so Christ? Was this by trust?
And who did Christ send to the believer? to just be here or teach us?

 

[homwardbound]

God expects Jews, as He does everyone else to trust in what Christ did for them on the cross to enable them to enter Heaven, He does not want anyone to believe rite, ritual or ceremony can earn someone eternity in Heaven, even in part. It is why you do these things that matters, not the fact you do them.

one's motive(s) is what we all shall be judged on, and this is whether one does believe God or not. No other way I see, and one's that actually do believe their fruits are the Love of God, God's type of love pouring through them best described 1 Cor. 13:4-13

 

[RedTent]

Jewish ritual/ceremonial and dietary laws are of no spiritual benefit to anyone.

Those Judaizers, who keep them ignore that fact that Christ set us free from them and deny the complete work Christ did for us on the cross.

If you want to keep jewish ceremonial festivals, celebrations and sabbaths, abstain from unclean foods and keep circumcision-- then you deny Col. 2:16

Good luck with that type of vain, empty and worthless form of worship.

All the physical things that God suggested for ways to live to express spiritual truths were useful, to say that God was wrong and you are right is putting yourself above God.

Constantine, a man, said that all ways that Jews expressed God was wrong, God didn't. God said all scripture is for our instruction, Constantine's instruction to ignore any scripture the Jews listened to was a wrong instruction, a man made one.

God says that the physical expression of God, without the spiritual meaning is useless, and the spiritual meaning is what is important. If you do in spirit everyone of the things the rituals represents, you do not have to do the physical reminders to yourself to do them. If you do the physical without the spiritual they represent, they are useless.

When you judge God's scripture, calling it empty, worthless, and vain, or that they are given by God to deny God, you are disobeying the order not to judge. You are judging God, much worse than judging man.

Paul told the gentiles not to judge the Jews by what they ate, as well as telling the Jews not to judge the gentiles. In Colossians we are told not to go by man's instructions in how to obey God. We are not to let man lead us in such as following angels in our worship. We must be careful to not let our physical life overshadow our spiritual life. God also teaches that there is a connection between what we do in the spirit and what we do in the body. If we ignore that part of our training, we are distorting what God tells us.

 

[NiceneCreed]

Scripture addresses this problem only as concerning whether the gentiles had to stop doing things like eating pork and do such things as being circumcised. Do you think scripture says it is wrong to worship in this way?

Please don”t post over and over that these things don’t save. We all know that. The Jews who knew Christ knew that. James the Just, brother of Christ was head of the Christians in Jerusalem, and James certainly knew that. That isn’t the question. The question is whether they are forbidden by God to worship that way.

Being that I am technically an ethical Jew (My Grandmother is Jewish), I would have to argue there are at least some practices God doesn't want for Jews to participate in any more. The first practice which came to my mind was that of ritual animal sacrifice; there is obviously no need for that anymore. I could name a dozen other practices, but this is the one that has always stuck out in my mind as something which is absolutely ridiculous to still practice.

 

[john832]

Jewish ritual/ceremonial and dietary laws are of no spiritual benefit to anyone.

Those Judaizers, who keep them ignore that fact that Christ set us free from them and deny the complete work Christ did for us on the cross.

If you want to keep jewish ceremonial festivals, celebrations and sabbaths, abstain from unclean foods and keep circumcision-- then you deny Col. 2:16

Good luck with that type of vain, empty and worthless form of worship.

Calling the Laws that Christ Himself, instituted vain, worthless and empty seems to me to be dangerous ground...

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Grandpa]

Calling the Laws that Christ Himself, instituted vain, worthless and empty seems to me to be dangerous ground...

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

You are confused.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

The law was given because of transgression.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The Lord saves us from being transgressors against Him.

He doesn't save us so that we can more easily become transgressors of Him.

 

[Grandpa]

Being that I am technically an ethical Jew (My Grandmother is Jewish), I would have to argue there are at least some practices God doesn't want for Jews to participate in any more. The first practice which came to my mind was that of ritual animal sacrifice; there is obviously no need for that anymore. I could name a dozen other practices, but this is the one that has always stuck out in my mind as something which is absolutely ridiculous to still practice.

All the rest of the jewish rituals are equally as ridiculous seeing as they are pointing to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He would do for us, and in us. Its like saying by faith that you believe the Lord has fulfilled the need for animal sacrifice but He has not fulfilled the need for (place your jewish ritual here).

 

[john832]

All the rest of the jewish rituals are equally as ridiculous seeing as they are pointing to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He would do for us, and in us. Its like saying by faith that you believe the Lord has fulfilled the need for animal sacrifice but He has not fulfilled the need for (place your jewish ritual here).

Again, you can call the ceremonial Laws that Christ Himself, gave to Israel ridiculous if you like, but I am not about to.

 

[RedTent]

Being that I am technically an ethical Jew (My Grandmother is Jewish), I would have to argue there are at least some practices God doesn't want for Jews to participate in any more. The first practice which came to my mind was that of ritual animal sacrifice; there is obviously no need for that anymore. I could name a dozen other practices, but this is the one that has always stuck out in my mind as something which is absolutely ridiculous to still practice.

That is not arguing with me, that is scripture and I agree completely. We need to follow how God directs us, and God made some things obsolete when Christ came to replace them. God did not replace all with Christ, and we need to follow scripture to find out just what Christ replaced. If we do not follow God in instructions about priests, about blood, about the Holy Spirit we are ignoring scripture. No scripture is to be ignored.

 

[RedTent]

All the rest of the jewish rituals are equally as ridiculous seeing as they are pointing to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He would do for us, and in us. Its like saying by faith that you believe the Lord has fulfilled the need for animal sacrifice but He has not fulfilled the need for (place your jewish ritual here).

When you judge God as ridiculous, what an arrogant statement. Before Christ came God gave people animal sacrifice, and that was NOT ridiculous of God to do. God is never ridiculous. It is now obsolete, and that isn't ridiculous, either.

You are using fuzzy thinking. You say all rituals point to the coming of Christ. That is the result of fuzzy thinking, God is exact. You relate ALL suggestions God gave for our daily living to be centered on Christ in the same category as the blood symbol of Christ (animal blood) that God made obsolete. That is you taking on writing scripture. You can not do that and stay Christian.

 

[Grandpa]

Again, you can call the ceremonial Laws that Christ Himself, gave to Israel ridiculous if you like, but I am not about to.

You mean Moses gave the ceremonial laws to Israel.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rituals are only ridiculous to follow after you have come to the Knowledge of the Truth, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Otherwise those rituals, in special cases, could cause a person to search deeper and find our Lord.

 

[Grandpa]

When you judge God as ridiculous, what an arrogant statement. Before Christ came God gave people animal sacrifice, and that was NOT ridiculous of God to do. God is never ridiculous. It is now obsolete, and that isn't ridiculous, either.

You are using fuzzy thinking. You say all rituals point to the coming of Christ. That is the result of fuzzy thinking, God is exact. You relate ALL suggestions God gave for our daily living to be centered on Christ in the same category as the blood symbol of Christ (animal blood) that God made obsolete. That is you taking on writing scripture. You can not do that and stay Christian.

I'm not judging God as ridiculous. We need to straighten this out.

I am judging people like you as ridiculous. People who go back to the shadow while still at the same time proclaiming to be in the Light.

Big difference. That's not fuzzy thinking. I am choosing the Light. That is clear thinking.

Fuzzy thinking is playing in the shadows and justifying it before yourself and others that it isn't really the shadow, its good for us...