C.S. LEWIS was not christian/ C.S LEWIS exposed

Praus · Aug 22, 2013

"Now just believe it. Believe that it is the pure word of God."

There you go, cult-speak.

Which leads to... KJV-only Pastor Steven L. Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church.

Faithful Word Baptist Church - Phoenix, AZ

burning the NIV starts at 3:36, this guy takes KJV-only very seriously.

Burning the Corrupt NIV perversion of the Bible - YouTube

Praus · Aug 22, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

If we leave it up to KJV-only thinking then we wouldn't even have a Bible.

4. There are over 4,000 laws that dictate the writing. Even the slightest slip of the pen, the smallest mistake, can be reason to burn the scroll and start over, especially if a mistake is found in the word God. Indeed, God's name is so holy, a scribe must bathe in a mikvah (ritual pool) before writing the Lord's four-letter (Hebrew) name.

7 Things You Need to Know about the Torah | Mental Floss

Praus · Aug 22, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

I spent a few minutes on the linguistics. Lets ignore 1 Cor 15:6 for the moment and deal with all of these.

God promised to preserve His Word and it looks like the KJV is problematic. I'm going to switch to the New King James Version because of this, I had no idea how many errors were involved in the KJV-only "pure and perfect" argument. Thank you for teaching me about the Bible Version Issue!

The 1611 translators forgot that He is the Son of God. Is that a perfect Bible?

1Jo 5:12
Hee that hath the Sonne, hath life; and hee that hath not the Sonne, hath not life. (1611)

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (PCE)

The 1611 translators forgot that the temple is the LORD's. Is that a perfect Bible?

2Ki 11:10
And to the captaines ouer hundreds, did the Priest giue king Dauids speares and shields, that were in the Temple. (1611)

And to the captains over hundreds did the priest give king David’s spears and shields, that [were] in the temple of the LORD. (PCE)

More examples of how the text changed.

1 Cor 12:28
And God hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helpes in gouernmēts, diuersities of tongues. (1611)

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. (PCE)

Jos 3:11
Behold, the Arke of the Couenant, euen the Lord of all the earth, passeth ouer before you, into Iordan. (1611)

Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth passeth over before you into Jordan. (PCE)

Isa 49:13
¶ Sing, O heauen, and be ioyfull, O earth, and breake forth into singing, O mountaines: for God hath comforted his people, and will haue mercy vpon his afflicted. (1611)

¶ Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted. (PCE)

Jer 31:14
And I will satiate the soule of the priests with fatnesse, and my people shall be satisfied with goodnesse, saith the Lord. (1611)

And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the LORD. (PCE)

Jer 51:30
The mightie men of Babylon haue forborne to fight: they haue remained in their holdes: their might hath failed, they became as women: they haue burnt their dwelling places: her barres are broken. (1611)

The mighty men of Babylon have forborn to fight, they have remained in [their] holds: their might hath failed; they became as women: they have burned her dwellingplaces; her bars are broken. (PCE)

Da 3:15
... but if yee worship not, ye shall be cast the same houre into the midst of a fierie furnace, and who is that God that shall deliuer you out of my handes? (1611)

... but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who [is] that God that shall deliver you out of my hands? (PCE)

twill · Aug 22, 2013

THIS THREAD IS STILL GOING...?
God:

CC'ers the world over:

me:

Agricola · Aug 22, 2013

Yes twill, its a re-occuring theme when it comes to King James Only Cult and Chosenbyhim posting the same crap blindly over and over again and only replying to serious responses with cut and paste jobs.

I am still none the wiser why the King James 1611 is the final authority and the only Bible God wants us to read, I just cant see it, maybe its because its a load of bull. Like all cults they cherry pick a couple of verses and part verses from Bible and build a whole agenda around it.

Trax · Aug 22, 2013

Agricola said:

Did God authorize the Bible you read from? It doesn't require a child of God to translate ancient writing
into something modern. Many ancient forms of writing have been translated into the modern. But
man can only give you man's words. If the Bible version didn't come from God, then it is a counterfeit.
Accuracy isn't an issue to choose a Bible version. Man can give an accurate translation but man can not
give you God's breathed word, that is, His inspired word. It requires God's hand involved, to tell you what
God wants to be told. If God was never behind the creation of a Bible translation, then all you got,
with the so-called translation, is just a good idea by man, based on man's opinion and intellect, which
falls way short of God's ways and thoughts. It isn't about the words on paper, but about God helping you
to understand and know. If the Bible translation isn't from God, don't expect God to guide you
into truth of that Bible because it isn't His inspried words, but man's inspired words. You can take what
I have just written and translate it into any language you want, but those translations will be based on
"your opinion" of what you think I am conveying. If didn't guide you, with those translations, then its
your interpretation and opinion only. If I instructed you, then those translations are my words. If I didn't,
then they are your words. God's word is no different. Any Bible that isn't God authorized and God
inspired, is "man's word." The body of Christ isn't taking God into consideration when reading His word.
They are basing their knowledge upon "man's accuracy". So, my question remains, did God authorize and
inspire the Bible you read from. Don't make an assumption. Don't assume anything. Know it is.
God will only give you ONE translation, because you only need ONE. If you got 3 Bible translations,
I guarantee that two of them will not be from God. For myself, I read from the KJV, because I know
it is God authorized and inspired. Since going to KJV only, I have been guided into more truth
and spiritual understanding of God's word. Not because of my intellect, but because I'm actually
reading God's inspired word. He is helping me because I'm reading what He wrote.
Now, I can't say what these other modern translations are. But If God did give a modern translation,
it will only be ONE modern translation. Now, your job is risky at best. Figuring out if there is
a God authorized and God inspired modern version and if so, which one it is.

ThomistColin · Aug 22, 2013

Why is this thread still going? The original poster was banned and this thread does nothing, but continue his strange and hateful words. If you want to continue this KJV argument, please start a different thread.

Trax · Aug 22, 2013

ThomistColin said:

Because people are still reading it. However, I do need to make a reply, that is more on topic,
of quoting people. Then I'll be through.

I have two books, of quotes, on various topics, by various people. I have read both books many times.
One thing I have learned from reading and re-reading those words of wisdom by the sages is,
not one quote altered my way of thinking. I either agreed or disagreed with what was said.
When the preacher hunts quotes, he shifts through many. He casts out what he don't like, and
picks what he does like. If his mind wasn't changed, then that should be a testimony, that the
quote he picked, wont change someone else's mind.

A person's thinking is altered by one of two camps:
1. God
2. Satan and his minions

It is through the spiritual that a person has his/her thoughts directed. The best approach
for the preacher is to quote from the Bible and allow God to do His work. To quote from man
is to muddy the messege and stretch the sermon out so things can be wrapped up by 12 noon.
And that is all that a quote from man accomplishes, when God's word is being taught.

Agricola · Aug 22, 2013

There is no such thing as a final authorised version bible from God and there never will be. Claiming that the changes such as nosering instead of facering and Passover instead of Easter is work of Satan shows just how ridiculous your cult is.

AgeofKnowledge · Aug 22, 2013

Hey Agricola. Don't hold back. I love it. Time for some positive rep for you. +1 for Agricola.

Once Praus and I iron it out, +1 for him too. He's on his way.

Agricola said:

starfield · Aug 22, 2013

KJBibleCat banned, yet his thread lives on. Wow....the irony.

Tintin · Aug 22, 2013

For the love of Pete! The KJV is called the Authorized version only because King James officially authorized the book, not because of God. Get your facts right, KJV'ers.

ChosenbyHim · Aug 22, 2013

Praus said:

Well Praus, since you mentioned Steven L. Anderson, you may want to view this video by Brother Bryan Denlinger:

Is Steven Anderson REALLY Saved?

[video=youtube;sVcXnnbh8qM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcXnnbh8qM[/video]

Just because someone claims to be KJV Only, does not mean that they actually are a King James Bible believer.

And by the way Steven Anderson definitely has some problems, especially doctrinally.

Number 1) he is not dispensational.

Number 2) because he is not dispensational, he attacks the Biblical Doctrine of the Pre-trib. Rapture and has bought into the false teaching of a post trib. Rapture.

Number 3) Also, because he is not dispensational, he is antisemitic. In other words, he has a serious issue with God's people, the Jews.

So I don't believe that Steven Anderson is a genuine King James Bible believer.

Keep in mind also Praus, that there are pastors who claim to be KJV Only, but in their heart they don't believe that the KJV is God's pure and perfect word. Therefore they are not a real Bible believer.

If you want to find some real King James Bible believing pastors and preachers, then look up the following men:

David Peacock, Mickey Carter, Richard Sowell, David Cloud, Al Lacy, William Grady, Sam Gipp, Gregory A. Miller, Reg Kelly, Peter Ruckman, and Bryan Denlinger.

A lot of these men I just listed can be found on Sermonaudio.com

You might be able to find some of them on Youtube also.

Oh and by the way, I don't know what Steven Anderson's motivation was for burning those NIVs. But the burning of those NIVs is justifiable. The NIV is an abomination. It is a wicked modern version that attacks our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ad His deity.

Go look this stuff up. It's been documented many times. Look up Some of Will Kinney's work which he has done in documenting the false teaching and heresies found in the New International Version (also known as the Non Inspired Version).

ChosenbyHim · Aug 22, 2013

Praus said:

Actually I heard about that complex and serious process that the Old Testament Jewish Scribes had to go through to preserve the inspired Hebrew Scriptures of God. It is just incredible to know that that was the very process of preservation which the Jewish Scribes took to preserve God's holy words.

Mammachickadee · Aug 22, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

Well Praus, since you mentioned Steven L. Anderson, you may want to view this video by Brother Bryan Denlinger:

Is Steven Anderson REALLY Saved?

[video=youtube;sVcXnnbh8qM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcXnnbh8qM[/video]

Just because someone claims to be KJV Only, does not mean that they actually are a King James Bible believer.

And by the way Steven Anderson definitely has some problems, especially doctrinally.

Number 1) he is not dispensational.

Number 2) because he is not dispensational, he attacks the Biblical Doctrine of the Pre-trib. Rapture and has bought into the false teaching of a post trib. Rapture.

Number 3) Also, because he is not dispensational, he is antisemitic. In other words, he has a serious issue with God's people, the Jews.

So I don't believe that Steven Anderson is a genuine King James Bible believer.

Keep in mind also Praus, that there are pastors who claim to be KJV Only, but in their heart they don't believe that the KJV is God's pure and perfect word. Therefore they are not a real Bible believer.

If you want to find some real King James Bible believing pastors and preachers, then look up the following men:

David Peacock, Mickey Carter, Richard Sowell, David Cloud, Al Lacy, William Grady, Sam Gipp, Gregory A. Miller, Reg Kelly, Peter Ruckman, and Bryan Denlinger.

A lot of these men I just listed can be found on Sermonaudio.com

You might be able to find some of them on Youtube also.

Oh and by the way, I don't know what Steven Anderson's motivation was for burning those NIVs. But the burning of those NIVs is justifiable. The NIV is an abomination. It is a wicked modern version that attacks our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ ad His deity.

Go look this stuff up. It's been documented many times. Look up Some of Will Kinney's work which he has done in documenting the false teaching and heresies found in the New International Version (also known as the Non Inspired Version).

I'm a post tribber and have several reasons from the Bible for such a conviction. Tell me to my face that it's a false doctrine when the Bible says flat that "the rain falls on the just and the unjust" alike.

ChosenbyHim · Aug 22, 2013

Praus said:

Okay Praus, now I see the direction you are taking. Well let me ask you, if those minor textual changes were not there, then would you believe the Bible? Would you believe that the Authorized King James Bible is God's perfect and pure word?

Check out this article by Sam Gipp:

Haven't there been several revisions of the King James Bible since 1611?

It clearly answers these objections of yours that you're bringing up.

Let me share with you an excerpt of it here:

"F.H.A. Scrivener, in the appendix of his book, lists the variations between the 1611 edition of the KJV and later printings. A sampling of these corrections is given below. In order to be objective, the samples give the first textual correction on consecutive left-hand pages of Scrivener's book. The 1611 reading is given first; then the present reading; and finally, the date the correction was first made.

1 this thing--this thing also (1638)
2 shalt have remained--ye shall have remained (1762)
3 Achzib, nor Helbath, nor Aphik--of Achzib, nor of Helbath, nor of Aphik (1762)
4 requite good--requite me good (1629)
5 this book of the Covenant--the book of this covenant (1629)
6 chief rulers--chief ruler (1629)
7 And Parbar--At Parbar (1638)
8 For this cause--And for this cause (1638)
9 For the king had appointed--for so the king had appointed (1629)
10 Seek good--seek God (1617)
11 The cormorant--But the cormorant (1629)
12 returned--turned (1769)
13 a fiery furnace--a burning fiery furnace (1638)
14 The crowned--Thy crowned (1629)
15 thy right doeth--thy right hand doeth (1613)
16 the wayes side--the way side (1743)
17 which was a Jew--which was a Jewess (1629)
18 the city--the city of the Damascenes (1629)
19 now and ever--both now and ever (1638)
20 which was of our father's--which was our fathers (1616)

Before your eyes are 5% of the textual changes made in the King James Version in 375 years. Even if they were not corrections of previous errors, they would be of no comparison to modern alterations. But they are corrections of printing errors, and therefore no comparison is at all possible. Look at the list for yourself and you will find only one that has serious doctrinal implications. In fact, in an examination of Scrivener's entire appendix, it is the only variation found by this author that could be accused of being doctrinal. I am referring to Psalm 69:32 where the 1611 edition has "seek good" when the Bible should have read "seek God." Yet, even with this error, two points demonstrate that this was indeed a printing error. First, the similarity of the words "good" and "God" in spelling shows how easily a weary typesetter could misread the proof and put the wrong word in the text. Second, this error was so obvious that it was caught and corrected in the year 1617, only six years after the original printing and well before the first so-called revision. The myth that there are several major revisions to the 1611 KJV should be getting clearer. But there is more.

Not only does the character of the changes show them to be printing errors, so does their frequency. Fundamentalist scholars refer to the thousands of revisions made to the 1611 as if they were on a par with the recent bible versions. They are not. The overwhelming majority of them are either type style or spelling changes. The few which do remain are clearly corrections of printing errors made because of the tediousness involved in the early printing process. The sample list given above will demonstrate just how careful Scrivener was in listing all the variations. Yet, even with this great care, only approximately 400 variations are named between the 1611 edition and modern copies. Remember that there were 100 variations between the first two Oxford editions which were both printed in 1611. Since there are almost 1200 chapters in the Bible, the average variation per chapter (after 375 years) is one third, i.e., one correction per every three chapters. These are changes such as "chief rulers" to "chief ruler" and "And Parbar" to "At Parbar." But there is yet one more evidence that these variations are simply corrected printing errors: the early date at which they were corrected.
The character and frequency of the textual changes clearly separate them from modern alterations. But the time the changes were made settles the issue absolutely. The great majority of the 400 corrections were made within a few years of the original printing. Take, for example, our earlier sampling. Of the twenty corrections listed, one was made in 1613, one in 1616, one in 1617, eight in 1629, five in 1638, one in 1743, two in 1762, and one in 1769. That means that 16 out of 20 corrections, or 80%, were made within twenty-seven years of the 1611 printing. That is hardly the long drawn out series of revisions the scholars would have you to believe. In another study made by examining every other page of Scrivener's appendix in detail, 72% of the textual corrections were made by 1638. There is no "revision" issue.

The character of the textual changes is that of obvious errors. The frequency of the textual changes is sparse, occurring only once per three chapters. The chronology of the textual changes is early with about three fourths of them occurring within twenty-seven years of the first printing. All of these details establish the fact that there were no true revisions in the sense of updating the language or correcting translation errors. There were only editions which corrected early typographical errors. Our source of authority for the exact wording of the 1611 Authorized Version is not in the existing copies of the first printing. Our source of authority for the exact wording of our English Bible is in the preserving power of Almighty God. Just as God did not leave us the original autographs to fight and squabble over, so He did not see fit to leave us the proof copy of the translation. Our authority is in the hand of God as always. You can praise the Lord for that!" - Dr. Samuel Gipp ( The Answer Book, A Helpbook for Christians).

By the way Praus, I see your still dodging my one question I asked you regarding the King James Code.

Again, have you heard about the King James Code? Have you ever looked into the study of Bible Numerics?

ChosenbyHim · Aug 22, 2013

Mammachickadee said:

Ma'am if I met you in person and you asked me whether or not the post trib. theory was false. I would tell you that it is a false doctrine. I would tell you the truth. The post trib. theory is a lie. It cannot be supported by the Scriptures.

We as Christians are the Body of Christ. We are not going to have to go through God's wrath.

We go through man's wrath. But not God's wrath. We are not appointed to God's wrath. The time of Jacob's trouble is for the unbelieving Jews who have rejected Jesus Christ and the Gospel. Therefore in the time of Jacob's trouble, the two witnesses, Moses and Elijah will be performing Signs and Wonders to confirm the New Testament to the Jews. Since the Jews require a sign (See 1 Cor. 1:22).

I encourage and exhort you Ma'am to reexamine your beliefs regarding the timing of the Rapture. The timing of the Rapture is very important.

Study the dispensations.

Praus · Aug 22, 2013

AgeofKnowledge said:

I'm crazy your assertion was correct.

Feel free to link to drop a link to this post anytime to any post of mine, it says:

"Praus is crazy" --Praus

Praus · Aug 23, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

I've read Gipp, thanks though.

Check out this article by Sam Gipp:

ChosenbyHim said:

Sam Gipp is not Cambridge. Cambridge defines the KJV Bible, not Oxford, not Sam Gipp, and not Gail Riplinger with her multiple divorces, as if I don't know where you're arguing from, it's not D.A. Waite, it's Riplinger.

Here are 6 years only of updates to the KJV Paragraph Bible, from 2005 to 2011. It's a lot more than 375 changes in 400 years.

http://www.cambridge.org/bibles/kjv/downloads/NCPB_2011_amendments.pdf

Gen. 6:5, Gen. 10:30, Gen. 13:13, Gen. 13:14, Gen. 14:17, Gen. 18:1-2, Gen. 22:16-18, Gen. 28:16, Gen. 38:25, Gen. 40:6, Exod. 7:25, Exod. 18:16, Lev. 11:35, Lev. 11:47, Num. 14:28, Num. 16:28, Num. 23:13, Deut. 22:14, Deut. 30:4, Deut. 33:5-6, Deut. 33:7, Josh. 2:10, Josh. 24:11, Judg. 4:22, Judg. 14:8, Judg. 16:14, Judg. 18:9, Judg. 20:22, 1 Sam. 10:2, 1 Sam. 26:12, 1 Sam. 30:3, 2 Sam. 1:10, 2 Sam. 1:11, 2 Sam. 13:12, 2 Sam. 13:34, 2 Sam. 21:17, 1 Kgs 3:7, 1 Kgs 14:12, 2 Kgs 3:15, 2 Kgs 17:8, 2 Kgs 19:33-4, 2 Kgs 21:22, 2 Kgs 22:19-20, 1 Chr. 21:2, 2 Chr. 11:21, Ezra 6:5, Esther 2:17, Job 23:9, Job 28:14, Job 33:17, Job 38:9, Ps. 3:5, Ps. 42:4, Ps. 50:5, Ps. 50:7, Ps. 50:15, Ps. 55:17, Ps. 55:22, Ps. 60:6, Ps. 60:8, Ps. 60:6, Ps. 60:8, Ps. 71:18, Ps. 78:22, Ps. 78:65, Ps. 81:6, Ps. 81:11, Ps. 81:13, Ps. 81:14, Ps. 89:3 2, Ps. 89:4, Ps. 95:8, Ps. 99:4, Ps. 107:3, Ps. 113:6, Ps. 119:14, Ps. 139:11, Ps. 144:2, Ps. 148:12, Prov. 16:1, 2, 6, 9, 20, 33, 17:3, 15, 18:22, 19:3, 14, 21, 20:10, 12, 22, 21:1, 2, 3, 30, 31, 22:2, 14, 23:17, 25:22, 28:5, 25, 29:13, 25, 26, 31:30, Prov. 23:7, Prov. 23:35, Prov. 24:4, Prov. 24:29, Prov. 25:9-10, Prov. 26:24, Eccles. 12:2, Isa. 5:29, Isa. 7:4, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, Isa. 9:12, Isa. 16:2, Isa. 17:8, Isa. 28:24, Isa. 30:1, Isa. 35:10, Isa. 43:22, Isa. 51:19, Isa. 60:15, Isa. 63:19, Isa. 64:11, Isa. 66:24, Jer. 2:13, Jer. 4:9, Jer. 18:2, Jer. 22:18, Jer. 22:19 19, Jer. 31:9, Jer. 31:26, Jer. 32:6, Jer. 33:10, Ezek. 11:15, Ezek. 17:5 5, Ezek. 20:4 4, Wilt 4, Ezek. 21:8, Ezek. 30:6, Ezek. 33:10, Ezek. 36:27, 37:14, 39:29, Dan. 7:14, Dan. 9:2, Dan. 10:16, 17 (twice), 19, Dan. 11:10, Hos. 1:2, Hos. 13:14, Hos. 13:15, Hos. 14:3, Joel 2:28, 29, Joel 3:4, Joel 3:5, Joel 3:10, Amos 4:13, Amos 5:3, Amos 5:14, Amos 5:16, Amos 6:9, Jonah 1:11, Micah 1:15, Hab. 1:5-11 5, Hab. 3:4, Haggai 2:23, Zech. 2:5, Zech. 4:1, Mal. 1:10, Matt. 17:6, Matt. 22:13, Matt. 27:8, Mark 9:21, Mark 9:22, Mark 12:36, Mark 16:7, Luke 1:4, Luke 12:57, Luke 13:3, Luke 20:42, John 1:35, John 3:26, John 8:7, John 11:16, John 21:20, Acts 1:11, Acts 2:29, Acts 2:31, Acts 2:34, Acts 9:11, Acts 15:17, Acts 24:19, Acts 25:7-8, Rom. 1:6, Rom. 1:7, 1 Cor. 2:12, 1 Cor. 15:37, 2 Cor. 11:12, Col. 1:16, 2 Thess. 1:1, Titus 1:14, James 2:23, 1 Pet. 3:21, Rev. 8:13

ChosenbyHim said:

Explain all the above changes to the KJV in 6 years, then I will tell you many secrets about that. Thanks.

Praus · Aug 23, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

ALL of God's holy words need such treatment, not the carelessness of the KJV translators like Richard Thomson (Genesis-Kings, Westminster group) the drunk.

Why are you so determined to promote homosexuality in Christian culture?

James 2:3
And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: (KJV-PCE)

If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," (NIV)

and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool," (NASB)

and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” (ESV)

C.S. LEWIS was not christian/ C.S LEWIS exposed

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