C.S. LEWIS was not christian/ C.S LEWIS exposed

[NiceneCreed]

Beat this guys! I have Adam's personal KJV Bible, signed by God. It's from before Eve was even created. I can't let it go for any less than $7,777,777.

Did you ever hear about the guy who had a heart-attack for laughing so hard when watching an episode of Seinfeld (True story, by the way)? Well, let's just hope he doesn't read your post. This is seriously one of the funniest things I have read on Christian Chat recently.


On a side note: What would the currency conversion/equivalent in 1611 British pounds be for $7,777,777? Perhaps I can pay ye in shillings . . .What does thou thinketh of thine proposal? LOL!!!

 

[Agricola]

Acording to the national Archives currency calculator, In 1610, £7,777,777 0s 0d would have the same spending worth of 2005's £761,288,812.76

 

[NiceneCreed]

Acording to the national Archives currency calculator, In 1610, £7,777,777 0s 0d would have the same spending worth of 2005's £761,288,812.76

Wow! Who would have thunk? I am glad you found a currency calculator that allowed you to make a proper conversion. I searched endlessly for one, unsuccessfully. Now I just need to wait for Tintin's reply; my offer still stands. How 'bout them shillings, Tintin?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I'm not an expert either, I'm only a simple Christian who studies from the KJV about 90% of the time. Call it a KJV-best position for lack of a better term. Given that, the very notion that I'm attacking "the word of God" or the KJV is ludicrous.

Praus, again getting back to the key issue. What is the core essential of the Bible Version Issue?

It is Final Authority. If the Bible you have is not perfect, then get one that is. The New Version philosophy is that no Bible is perfect. And that is dangerous because if there is no absolute perfect standard of truth. If there is no perfect Bible, then what becomes the standard of truth? Our own preferences and feelings do. It is the oldest weapon Satan has bee using for 6,000 years... "ye can be as gods, knowing good and evil." (See Gen. 3:5)

We've gone from "simply don't have an answer for it" to "more proof" without skipping a beat.

Must you call your brethren ignorant, master?

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. (KJV-PCE)

Psalm 12 is written in Hebrew, not English. How does one equivocate purity of the KJV with the original Hebrew?

Ps 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (KJV-PCE)

Well, when David the Psalmist wrote Psalm 12, obviously the complete Canon of Scripture was not written yet. In fact, not even half of the Holy Scriptures had been written yet.

Also let's quote Psalm 12:7 too while we are discussing this subject:


7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. - Psalm 12:7 (KJV)


Notice the Scripture says that the LORD shall preserve His pure words from the generation David was in to forever.

Well since God preserved His pure words, then that must mean we have them today.


Also Praus, here is a question for you. This one should be real easy.

What language today is the closest to a universal language?

Here's a hint: It is not Hebrew or Greek.

I enjoy Reagan and Penfold's writings and I agree with their on the printing error. I continue to disagree with your position on spelling errors only.



Reagan's conclusion is that Praus has a "profound hatred for the Bible" and he "feel sorry for people like" me. This is typical of KJV-only "experts".

Since you cited Reagan do you agree with Reagan's conclusion?

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion [is] vain. (KJV-PCE)

Why should Christians take Reagan seriously?

Yes I do agree with Reagan's conclusion that what happened in Ezekiel 24:7 was simply a misprint. And it was quickly fixed only two years after the original printing.


Well praus, if you can't take Reagan seriously, then how about Dean John William Burgon? Or how about D.A. Waite? Or how about Richard Sowell? Or how about Bryan Denlinger? Or David Cloud?

There are plenty of King James Bible believers who with the help of the Lord have done really good works in defending the Authorized King James Version. There is enough information out there on the Bible Version Issue, that any Christian can look into and research if they are still struggling with the issue of Final Authority.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

One other thing, here is a short excerpt by Will Kinney about the issue of the printing errors. He said it so well. I wanted to go ahead and share it:


"Even Scrivener, who worked on the English Revised Version of 1881, and documented every one of the printing errors in the 1611 printing,( I have his book too) admitted that the Cambridge printers had simply reinstated words and clauses overlooked by the 1611 printers and amended manifest printing errors. According to a study which he wrote 72% of the approximately 400 textual corrections in the King James Bible were completed by the time of the 1638 Cambridge edition, only 27 years after the original printing! (Not in 1769)

All the "printing errors" were of a minor nature and were nothing in comparison to the wholesale deliberate omissions of literally thousands of God inspired words in such contradictory versions as the NASB, ESV, RSV, NIV, NKJV, Holman etc., and every one of these modern versions continue to change their own underlying Greek and Hebrew texts and their English text from one edition to the next.

They change literally hundreds of words from their own versions to the next one every few years. The NASB has now gone through some 9 different editions, with the latest one omitting some 7000 words that were in the previous 1977 NASB. The NIV continues to change its texts (both the English and the underlying Hebrew and Greek) from edition to edition and so does the NKJV." - Will Kinney (The Printing Errors Ploy)

 

[ChosenbyHim]

So the text has changed and also has not changed.

You defend that assertion by changing to the topic from the actual text changes to the "change in meaning", and referring to your brethren as "ignorant" and state that they "will answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ".

Lets stay on topic here, teacher.

Well yes they will. There are different things I am sure that we will all have to answer for at the Judgment Seat of Christ. And one of them will be how we handled the word of God.

I used to be ignorant of the Bible Version Issue, just like I used to be ignorant of the CCM/ "Christian" rock music issue, and also I was at one time ignorant about the 501c3 Issue as well. It is interesting though, once I learned more and more about the Bible Version Issue. Then soon after that, the Lord started dealing with my heart on the "Christian" rock Issue. And then soon after I began to learn about the Christian music issue, then I heard about how most churches in America today are yoked up to the Government through 501c3 Incorporation. And that the pastors of the 501c3 churches were now CEOs of an organization where the Government and IRS had them by the strings and censored what they could preach from the pulpit. Hence, I had learned about why 501c3 incorporation was wrong and is wrong.


And Praus, if you want to think that Christians aren't going to answer for what they did with the issue of Final Authority. Well then you can think that. But at the Judgment Seat of Christ, we'll know. We'll know.



As Christians we all have our own Christian walk to grow through. We all have to work on our Sanctification. We have a responsibility to learn and grow in the knowledge of the word of God. And that includes getting to know about the Bible Version Issue. A lot of Christians seem to think that the Bible Version Issue is not that important. But it is very important. God places a very high emphasis on His words.


2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. - Psalm 138:2 (KJV)


God magnified His word above His very name. And God's name is the name above all names.

Therefore God places very high importance over His pure words. I know He does.

God placed in His holy word, three warnings about adding to and taking away from His words. (See Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19).


Another thing that I learned in studying the Bible Version Issue was the phenomenon of Bible Numerics and numerical codes and patterns found in the King James Authorized Bible. Now Praus, if you have not looked into the King James Code. Then I would recommend that you do that. These numerical codes in the King James Bible attest and affirm the fact that the Authorized King James Bible is a supernatural Book. And that God's hand is on it.

No man or woman on the face of this earth could orchestrate these numerical patterns. These numerical codes and patterns are definitely of a divine nature.

 

[Praus]

Praus, again getting back to the key issue. What is the core essential of the Bible Version Issue?

It is Final Authority. If the Bible you have is not perfect, then get one that is. The New Version philosophy is that no Bible is perfect. And that is dangerous because if there is no absolute perfect standard of truth. If there is no perfect Bible, then what becomes the standard of truth? Our own preferences and feelings do. It is the oldest weapon Satan has bee using for 6,000 years... "ye can be as gods, knowing good and evil." (See Gen. 3:5)

The "Final Authority" and the "perfect Bible" in my opinion is the Scrivener 1877 Textus Receptus. It's still in print

Trinitarian Bible Society

and the Bomberg/ben Chayyim Masoretic Old Testament, which is also still in print:

Trinitarian Bible Society

That combination of OT and NT is the source for the King James Bible. I accept those as the perfect Bible.

"The New Version philosophy" is to discard the Textus Receptus in favor of the Novum Testamentum Graece or some combination of the two Greek texts, which I don't accept, so don't defend the "New Version philosophy".

The Novum Testamentum Graece is also still in print.

Nestle Aland Novum Testamentum Graece :: Printed Editions

Well, when David the Psalmist wrote Psalm 12, obviously the complete Canon of Scripture was not written yet. In fact, not even half of the Holy Scriptures had been written yet.

Also let's quote Psalm 12:7 too while we are discussing this subject:

7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. - Psalm 12:7 (KJV)

Notice the Scripture says that the LORD shall preserve His pure words from the generation David was in to forever.

Well since God preserved His pure words, then that must mean we have them today.

That's the Textus Receptus and the Masoretic Text mentioned above.

Also Praus, here is a question for you. This one should be real easy.
What language today is the closest to a universal language?
Here's a hint: It is not Hebrew or Greek.

Proto Indo European.

Proto-Indo-European language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes I do agree with Reagan's conclusion that what happened in Ezekiel 24:7 was simply a misprint. And it was quickly fixed only two years after the original printing.

Well praus, if you can't take Reagan seriously, then how about Dean John William Burgon? Or how about D.A. Waite? Or how about Richard Sowell? Or how about Bryan Denlinger? Or David Cloud?

There are plenty of King James Bible believers who with the help of the Lord have done really good works in defending the Authorized King James Version. There is enough information out there on the Bible Version Issue, that any Christian can look into and research if they are still struggling with the issue of Final Authority.

Which of those authors disagree that the Textus Receptus and the Masoretic Text mentioned above are the "Final Authority"?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The "Final Authority" and the "perfect Bible" in my opinion is the Scrivener 1877 Textus Receptus. It's still in print

Trinitarian Bible Society

Well if you consider it as your Final Authority, then I suppose that you preach from it? Is that correct?

I am aware that that text is the same as the Beza's 1598 (4th edition), except in 191 places.

and the Bomberg/ben Chayyim Masoretic Old Testament, which is also still in print:

Trinitarian Bible Society

Well again, I suppose that you preach from the Hebrew Masoretic Old when you go out witnessing and street preaching correct?

That combination of OT and NT is the source for the King James Bible. I accept those as the perfect Bible.

Well if that is what you believe to be the perfect Bible, and you're being serious about that, well at least you believe that there is a perfect Bible. A lot of Christians today don't even believe that there is a perfect and infallible Bible (in English or in any language).

"The New Version philosophy" is to discard the Textus Receptus in favor of the Novum Testamentum Graece or some combination of the two Greek texts, which I don't accept, so don't defend the "New Version philosophy".

The Novum Testamentum Graece is also still in print.

Nestle Aland Novum Testamentum Graece :: Printed Editions

Well that may also be the case. But what the new version proponents do is attack Final Authority. It is about picking and preferring the bible you prefer. See, you are your own final authority. That is how a Bible believer can discern the satanic agenda of the modern version/ higher textual criticism philosophy.

That's the Textus Receptus and the Masoretic Text mentioned above.



Proto Indo European.

Proto-Indo-European language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Which of those authors disagree that the Textus Receptus and the Masoretic Text mentioned above are the "Final Authority"?

The Final Authority is the King James Bible. Have you ever watched a Bible believing preacher go out and do street preaching? If you have, what Bible does he preach from? It is not Hebrew, nor is it Greek.

I see you overlooked my question I asked you. Answer my question first and then I will answer yours.

Also, check out this video Praus, where Christians are street preaching in Australia and notice what Bible the men are preaching from:

[video=youtube;P2nqIsiZXlA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2nqIsiZXlA[/video]


They are preaching from an Authorized Version. They aren't preaching from the Hebrew or the Greek

 

[ChosenbyHim]

And here is another video of some good street preaching. And again, notice that what the minister is preaching from is not the Greek or Hebrew, but he is preaching from the King James Holy Bible:


[video=youtube;wN6BsANUIN8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6BsANUIN8[/video]

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Another thing though Praus, what needs to be understood is that the Scrivener Greek text was reflected from the Greek Text underlying the Authorized Version. The Underlying Greek Text of the Authorized Version has not been amended or changed one time. So if you want to be consistent, than the underlying Greek Text of the Authorized Version should be your standard because that is what Scrivener based his Greek translation on, he basically did a back-translation from the King James Bible into a Greek N.T. Text. So your edition of the Textus Receptus that you hold as the Final Authority came from the King James Bible.

You see Praus, although your reasoning is off like the that of the Trinitarian Bible Society, I do believe that your position is closer to the truth than the people who submit to no Final Authority. Again though, your reasoning as well as that of the Trinitarian Bible Society is illogical. It is inconsistent. The TR - Position still leaves you as your own Final Authority for determining how the Bible should be translated and read.

Also, the King James Bible was translated from a variety of different reliable sources. Such as Theodore Beza, Erasmus, Robert Stephanus, Geneva, and Tyndale. So it was translated from an Eclectic text. It was translated from some Latin also, not just Greek.

So if you were to be consistent, then you would have the faith to trust and believe that God led the KJV trasnlators to the exact underlying Greek to use in the translation of the Greatest Book ever produced.

 

[Praus]

You see Praus, although your reasoning is off like the that of the Trinitarian Bible Society, I do believe that your position is closer to the truth than the people who submit to no Final Authority. Again though, your reasoning as well as that of the Trinitarian Bible Society is illogical. It is inconsistent. The TR - Position still leaves you as your own Final Authority for determining how the Bible should be translated and read.

You've already made false and contradictory statements in order to defend you KJV-only position.

If you can't defend KJV-only honestly it's because it's a false teaching. Why not deal with false teaching instead of the TBS's "reasoning"?

So the nature of the changes were simply that of font, typography and spelling changes. But the very text itself has not been changed. And keep in mind that the American Bible Society today promotes and publishes a lot of the modern versions.

Let's look at 1 Cor 15:6, again:

1 Cor 15:6 And that hee was seene of aboue fiue hundred brethren at once: of whom the greater part remaine vnto this present, but some are fallen asleepe. (KJV/1611)

1 Cor 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (KJV/PCE)

Well Praus, I hope this helped. And in regard to 1 Corinthians 15:6, again I do not have an answer. But I think you are still straining at a gnat here with this one Praus.
Again, does a change in meaning occur in the passage in 1 Corinthians 15:6 between And and After

You haven't responded yet, instead of admitting that your original position is false, you suggest that I'm straining at a gnat. Why not define "pure and perfect" for us, because so far it's a moving target, from the "text doesn't change other than spelling and printing errors" to "the meaning doesn't change". This is the exact same allegation that you make against the modern Bible translators.

So the text has changed and also has not changed.

Only changed the topic again, rather than deal with the original false assertion.

http://christianchat.com/miscellane...hristian-c-s-lewis-exposed-9.html#post1159387

The Holy Spirit doesn't write falsehoods about the Bible. Please clarify the nature of the original false assertion regarding text changes first, then we'll continue.

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV/PCE)

 

[Praus]

And here is another video of some good street preaching. And again, notice that what the minister is preaching from is not the Greek or Hebrew, but he is preaching from the King James Holy Bible:

I preach out of the KJV also. It has nothing to do with it being the best English translation (which it is). It's because it's the only Bible that's acceptable to many non-Christians such as Mormons, SDAs, Rastafarians, and Black Hebrew Israelites.

 

[Praus]

And why? Because the people in America have received more light than those in the remote areas. In America, although at times you have to search a good while, you can still find the real Gospel being preached, whether it be on radio or even television. With internet, mobile, and other technology, people in America can access the preaching of the Gospel almost instantly. A good example of this would be Sermonaudio.com and Youtube.

It's an angel. God bless America.

From George W. Bush's first inaugural address, January 20th, 2000:

After the Declaration of Independence was signed, Virginia statesman John Page wrote to Thomas Jefferson: "We know the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong. Do you not think an angel rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm?"

Much time has passed since Jefferson arrived for his inauguration. The years and changes accumulate. But the themes of this day he would know: our nation's grand story of courage and its simple dream of dignity.

We are not this story's author, who fills time and eternity with his purpose. Yet his purpose is achieved in our duty, and our duty is fulfilled in service to one another.

Never tiring, never yielding, never finishing, we renew that purpose today, to make our country more just and generous, to affirm the dignity of our lives and every life.

This work continues. This story goes on. And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You've already made false and contradictory statements in order to defend you KJV-only position.

If you can't defend KJV-only honestly it's because it's a false teaching. Why not deal with false teaching instead of the TBS's "reasoning"?

No I answered your questions straight forward and honestly. You just choose to strain at a gnat. Whether you accept the Authorized Version as the absolute Final Authority or not. It doesn't change the facts Praus.

And again, I will say that your reasoning is off. The TR-Only position is illogical. For the reason given in my last post.

Let's look at 1 Cor 15:6, again:

1 Cor 15:6 And that hee was seene of aboue fiue hundred brethren at once: of whom the greater part remaine vnto this present, but some are fallen asleepe. (KJV/1611)

1 Cor 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (KJV/PCE)



You haven't responded yet, instead of admitting that your original position is false, you suggest that I'm straining at a gnat. Why not define "pure and perfect" for us, because so far it's a moving target, from the "text doesn't change other than spelling and printing errors" to "the meaning doesn't change". This is the exact same allegation that you make against the modern Bible translators.

I have responded already. And I asked you is there a change of meaning in that passage? I don't see a change of meaning there. You need to deal with the points already made. Is that the only problem that you have Praus? Seriously? You choose to reject the Absolute Authority of the King James Bible simply because AND IN 1 Cor. 15:6 now reads as AFTER?

Only changed the topic again, rather than deal with the original false assertion.

http://christianchat.com/miscellane...hristian-c-s-lewis-exposed-9.html#post1159387

The Holy Spirit doesn't write falsehoods about the Bible. Please clarify the nature of the original false assertion regarding text changes first, then we'll continue.

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV/PCE)

I already dealt with it. And I even shared an excerpt from an article Will Kinney wrote regarding the strawman argument that you are using right now just to justify your rejection of the Authorized Version as the Absolute Final Authority.

And I will tell you this, your Straw man argument is not going to work on me.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I preach out of the KJV also. It has nothing to do with it being the best English translation (which it is). It's because it's the only Bible that's acceptable to many non-Christians such as Mormons, SDAs, Rastafarians, and Black Hebrew Israelites.

Well I am glad you preach out of a King James Bible. Now just believe it. Believe that it is the pure word of God. The King James Bible is indeed the Best English Translation. And it is also the absolute perfect and infallible word of God.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I see also Praus that you have not addressed my statement in regard to the phenomenon of the Numerical codes and patterns found within the Authorized King James Bible. Have you ever looked into the study of Bible Numerics?

 

[Nautilus]

So you never answered why God waited 1600ish years to make his word perfect? or it that little challenge beyond the typical kjv answer sheets?

 

[Praus]

I see also Praus that you have not addressed my statement in regard to the phenomenon of the Numerical codes and patterns found within the Authorized King James Bible. Have you ever looked into the study of Bible Numerics?

It's a meaningless question, I'm a professionally trained computational linguist. I have enough material for a book but, hey, I'm busy reading all the false teachings here on CC.

 

[Praus]

Well I am glad you preach out of a King James Bible. Now just believe it. Believe that it is the pure word of God. The King James Bible is indeed the Best English Translation. And it is also the absolute perfect and infallible word of God.

Cursed be that love and unity for whose sake the Word of God must be put at stake.

- Martin Luther

So what's wrong with the Luther Bibel then?

Psalm 12:6 Die Rede des HERRN ist lauter wie durchläutert Silber im irdenen Tiegel, bewähret siebenmal. (Luther Bibel)

Luther started the Protestant Reformation in 1517, yet there was no KJV for another 94 years.

How did they ever have a Protestant Reformation, at all, without the "pure word of God", the 1611 KJV?

"The Protestant Reformation was the schism within Western Christianity initiated by John Wycliffe, Jan Hus, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other early Protestants. It was sparked by the 1517 posting of Luther's Ninety-Five Theses."

Protestant Reformation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And those Christians who know about the real issue and continue to persist in their error will answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

William Tyndale was martyred in 1536 for his English-language Bible translation.

What happened to Tyndale at for not teaching about the "Bible Version Issue", since the KJV didn't come along until 75 years later?

"Behind the superlative (if not emotive) praise of the King James Bible, however, lay the genius of the first English translator of the Hebrew Bible, William Tyndale. The 'companies' that worked on the King James Bible went back to Tyndale afresh, and relied on him heavily, often verbatim, to the point that about 83 percent of the New Testament is deemed to be based on Tyndale and 76 percent of the Old."

The Social Universe of the English Bible: Scripture, Society, and Culture in ... - Naomi Tadmor - Google Books

 

[Cee]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the 1611 KJV Bible is the final authority and the perfect word of God, therefore you have already preferred your own version. Putting yourself under the same cross-hairs you have tried to place others.

We are lead by the Spirit not the 1611 KJV Bible. The perfect Bible is the original languages. That's why there are many different Bibles they range on a scale of literal and relational. If you want the closest LITERAL translation check out the CLV, but don't forget to pray first.

You can choose whatever Bible you want to read. But, where you make your mistake is attacking other versions to prop your preferred version up. I can show many videos of people preaching out different versions of the Bible, but that doesn't prove a single thing.

Continually asserting that the KJV Bible is the only true Bible does not make it so. Putting down Scripture that shows that the words of the Lord are pure does not make the other versions impure.

Let me prove it to you:

Show me in other versions, how the core meaning of Scripture is changed, in a way that denies the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And if you can not show this, which you can't, then agree that other versions of the Bible are not "satanist tools".

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son....
For God loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son...
God loved the world so much that He gave His begotten only Son...

Here's an example of the gnat you are straining out. Neither sentence is better than the other. All have the force of truth, all display and point to God, all support the gospel.

And do me a favor, don't bring up history when you're trying to prove the KJV is the perfect word of God, if it's true you should be able to do it from God's word alone. Just show me the verse.

C.