Is Jesus God?

[Quickfire]

Perhaps some of the readers can benefit from the information. No doubt there will be those who will attempt to argue their case. If some one cannot be convinced that Jesus is God from such evidence, they could not see through a chain-link fence any way.

reply the trouble is that some people fall out if you dont get convinced by the person who is doing the convincing,

Like say you try to convince me and i say something like i still struggling to understand you, ? "you would probaly be ok with that and carry on trying to help.

Someone might say to you your speaking a load of cod wallop and then you might say, "you know what i hate you, so where you really trying to help in the first place ????? .

 

[oldhermit]

reply the trouble is that some people fall out if you dont get convinced by the person who is doing the convincing,

Like say you try to convince me and i say something like i still struggling to understand you, ? "you would probaly be ok with that and carry on trying to help.

Absolutely.

Someone might say to you your speaking a load of cod wallop and then you might say, "you know what i hate you, so where you really trying to help in the first place ????? .

I would never respond in that way. Once I feel my efforts are in vain I simply move on the next person

 

[kenisyes]

ok thankyou for claering that up an i think i believe you and i hope you are sincere because this jesus is god is a verry important matter, and many soldiers are afflicted by it only jesus was worthy of opening the holy scrolls in my book that says it all victory was won amen thankyou jesus evengalistic christians should be christans that love and think forgiveness and understanding at most peace come after this, and then love, if not its war, theres no choice, a war as evenge the evil thoughts you may not like that idea but its the only way, but the words of a sincere heart will gve you all the words to fght the battle

Then we are at peace. In the name of the Lamb, I'm sorry for the misunderstandings. I hope we can always be sincere with one another. This time you'll notice I found the like button.

 

[kenneth53]

if they believe that Jesus was just the son of God and not God himself then they are not Christian,

.

I'v e never heard that stated from the pulpit before

 

[kenisyes]

Perhaps some of the readers can benefit from the information. No doubt there will be those who will attempt to argue their case. If some one cannot be convinced that Jesus is God from such evidence, they could not see through a chain-link fence any way.

And that's the reason it's worth trying to find the objections someone might have. The answers can be prepared in advance. So we can be workman approved by those we serve. There's actually a program named this: AWANA, "An approved workman is not ashamed." 2 Tim 2:15

 

[Quickfire]

Absolutely. so your saying you give them up as a lost cause, ?



I would never respond in that way. Once I feel my efforts are in vain I simply move on the next person

so your saying you give them up as a lost cause, ??

 

[oldhermit]

I'v e never heard that stated from the pulpit before

You cannot rightly claim to wear his name and deny his nature. If anyone denies him, you can rest assured that Jesus will deny that person, no matter what claims they may make.

 

[Quickfire]

Then we are at peace. In the name of the Lamb, I'm sorry for the misunderstandings. I hope we can always be sincere with one another. This time you'll notice I found the like button.

well ok no probs enjoy the site and be at peace.

 

[kenneth53]

You cannot rightly claim to wear his name and deny his nature. If anyone denies him, you can rest assured that Jesus will deny that person, no matter what claims they may make.

I'd be grateful if you would reply to what I wrote in response to another poster's words, and give your thoughts on it

 

[oldhermit]

I'd be grateful if you would reply to what I wrote in response to another poster's words, and give your thoughts on it

Ok.............

 

[kenisyes]

I noticed a problem we may need to address. Heb. 1:8 proves that God the Father calls "the Son" God, and thus proves Jesus is God. Job well done.

But, why does that passage not apply to us as well? After all, we are adopted sons, so why are we not God as well? Oldhermit, I think your work on Greek exegesis, concerning the definite article, shows that we cannot discount that it could apply to us, as the article is there just for grammar, and thus we could be "sons" in the same sense, even with no definite article. Further, Ps. 82:6-7 seems to apply a similar concept to humans, even calling them gods, with the same word (elohim) used in Ps. 45:6 which is the verse quoted in Hebrews. Surely, if we can "prove" we are God in the same sense as Jesus, something is wrong with our thinking.

It is this double use of the word Elohim that has been the source of my concern from the beginning. See Strong's 430 where it lists both definitions.

It occurs to me that one could answer "we are not sons, we are 'adopted sons'". But that will not prove we are not 'adopted God'. This theology is not just idle speculation either. It is a common new age belief that all of us are God, some even saying that Jesus' life proves it.

 

[oldhermit]

I noticed a problem we may need to address. Heb. 1:8 proves that God the Father calls "the Son" God, and thus proves Jesus is God. Job well done.

But, why does that passage not apply to us as well? After all, we are adopted sons, so why are we not God as well? Oldhermit, I think your work on Greek exegesis, concerning the definite article, shows that we cannot discount that it could apply to us, as the article is there just for grammar, and thus we could be "sons" in the same sense, even with no definite article. Further, Ps. 82:6-7 seems to apply a similar concept to humans, even calling them gods, with the same word (elohim) used in Ps. 45:6 which is the verse quoted in Hebrews. Surely, if we can "prove" we are God in the same sense as Jesus, something is wrong with our thinking.

It is this double use of the word Elohim that has been the source of my concern from the beginning. See Strong's 430 where it lists both definitions.

It occurs to me that one could answer "we are not sons, we are 'adopted sons'". But that will not prove we are not 'adopted God'. This theology is not just idle speculation either. It is a common new age belief that all of us are God, some even saying that Jesus' life proves it.

I'll type you up a presentation on Psalms 82:6 & John 10:34 and have it ready for you in an hour or so.

 

[chiefofdisciples]

Yes King Jesus is God. This is called the creation equation. This proves that all scriptures are true. Scientists are wrong. We did not evolve from apes but from Noah at the second beginning of the world. And it shows how we are factored in to His master plan.
King Jesus declared unto us that He created Adam the first man in His image and the image of the angels 6017 years ago. 2744 years later came Abraham. 42 generations later came God in the flesh King Jesus. This was 1260 years. Now subtract 6017-2744-1260-and your birth year= your age in this year.
this works for everything God created. Peace and blessings.

 

[oldhermit]

I noticed a problem we may need to address. Heb. 1:8 proves that God the Father calls "the Son" God, and thus proves Jesus is God. Job well done.

But, why does that passage not apply to us as well? After all, we are adopted sons, so why are we not God as well? Oldhermit, I think your work on Greek exegesis, concerning the definite article, shows that we cannot discount that it could apply to us, as the article is there just for grammar, and thus we could be "sons" in the same sense, even with no definite article. Further, Ps. 82:6-7 seems to apply a similar concept to humans, even calling them gods, with the same word (elohim) used in Ps. 45:6 which is the verse quoted in Hebrews. Surely, if we can "prove" we are God in the same sense as Jesus, something is wrong with our thinking.

It is this double use of the word Elohim that has been the source of my concern from the beginning. See Strong's 430 where it lists both definitions.

It occurs to me that one could answer "we are not sons, we are 'adopted sons'". But that will not prove we are not 'adopted God'. This theology is not just idle speculation either. It is a common new age belief that all of us are God, some even saying that Jesus' life proves it.

YE ARE GODS
​

Psalms 82:6
God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods”: “How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.” Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.


John 10:34
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said you are gods’? “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), doyou say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

The first thing that needs to be understood is who God was speaking to in Ps. 82. He was not speaking to all men. In fact he was not even speaking to all of those of Israel. He was speaking to those who were appointed as judges over the people "YOUare gods." So, this declaration is very limited in its scope. God's calling them gods is related not to their intrinsic nature but to their appointed function as those who were responsible for giving the Law of God to the people. In the very next verse, God reminds them of their intrinsic nature, "you will die like mere mortals." These 'gods' were those who sat in the seat of Moses to whom God said, "See, I make you as God to Pharaoh." Like Moses before Pharaoh, these judges stood before the people as gods to the people. As such, their function was to defend the weak and the fatherless, uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed, to rescue the weak and the needy, and deliver them from the hand of the wicked. They had abandoned this appointed function and had defended the unjust and shown partiality to the wicked. Of them God says, “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness. All of these charges are contrary to the intrinsic nature of God. Since God cannot defy his own nature we know that the term gods then defines not their nature but their function. For this reason, God says he will render judgment among these gods, verse one.

In John 10 we find Jesus being accused of blasphemy because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” The Jews understood the implication of Jesus statement. When they threatened Jesus with stoning, Jesus reminded them of the 82 Psalm. Apparently the had properly understood the Psalm and did not equate being called gods as a declaration of man's equality with God. They would have regarded this as blasphemy. They knew to whom this Psalm was directed and the knew how it was to be understood. "He called them gods, to whom the word of God came." They knew this was talking about those who were charges with giving the Law of God to them. Yet, now, Jesus is himself sanctified and sent into the world by the Father to impart the word of God again to the people - this is the exact same function that was given to the judges yet, when Jesus calls himself the Son of God they want to stone him for it. Jesus is simply pointing out the loonacy of their reasoning.

 

[cfultz3]

Ken and Old Hermit,

Thank you both for addressing the matter of Jesus being God and the rock-hard prove found in Scripture of Him being so.

 

[oldhermit]

Ken and Old Hermit,

Thank you both for addressing the matter of Jesus being God and the rock-hard prove found in Scripture of Him being so.

You are most welcome. I hope the information was helpful.

 

[phil36]

I'v e never heard that stated from the pulpit before

Hi Kenneth,

I am not sure about what you have heard, but I've heard many preachers preach that Jesus is both the Son and God, the second person of the Trinity.

The thing is if you do not believe who Jesus says he is, then what is it we are believing, that's the real question. If one does not believe who Jesus says he is then you are not actually believing in Him, you must just think he is some special kind of man or angel.. pretty much what Jehovahs etc believe.. which is not Christian.

 

[kenneth53]

Hi Kenneth,

I am not sure about what you have heard, but I've heard many preachers preach that Jesus is both the Son and God, the second person of the Trinity.

The thing is if you do not believe who Jesus says he is, then what is it we are believing, that's the real question. If one does not believe who Jesus says he is then you are not actually believing in Him, you must just think he is some special kind of man or angel.. pretty much what Jehovahs etc believe.. which is not Christian.

Hi Phil

You wrote:

if they believe that Jesus was just the son of God and not God himself then they are not Christian,

I simply wrote I have never heard that stated from the pulpit. I know many, many Christians who have spent their livers in church, and being part of ministry teams within the church who solely see Christ as the Son of God. That is a fact. For they have never been told from the pulpit what you have written in the above emboldened. So it has never been discussed. Which leads to an obvious point.
Either you are wrong, or, most ministers refuse to plainly state the truth you have written from the pulpit, which do you believe is true?

 

[kenisyes]

He was speaking to those who were appointed as judges over the people "YOUare gods." So, this declaration is very limited in its scope. God's calling them gods is related not to their intrinsic nature but to their appointed function as those who were responsible for giving the Law of God to the people.

"He called them gods, to whom the word of God came." They knew this was talking about those who were charges with giving the Law of God to them.

This is exactly how I learned both passages, and I agree. But this does not solve my problem. We are a kingdom of priests (Rev. 1:6). Surely we are higher than the judges, especially ones who were not doing what God told them to do. And we are told that we have received the word of God and to carry it to all the world, so are we not in the same category.

The problem is not that we are God; I don't believe that. The problem is that Scripture uses the same word for some men with a high calling (though less than ours) that it uses in the Scripture in Hebrews that we are using to prove Jesus is God. I'm not certain that the meaning of the word, as defined by Scripture, is as helpful as we thought, because one can say it suggests we are God too. (We prove Jesus is God because God the Father calls Him that in Hebrews. Yet He calls judges that in Psalms, and we are higher than judges according to Revelation.)

 

[oldhermit]

This is exactly how I learned both passages, and I agree. But this does not solve my problem. We are a kingdom of priests (Rev. 1:6). Surely we are higher than the judges, especially ones who were not doing what God told them to do. And we are told that we have received the word of God and to carry it to all the world, so are we not in the same category.

The problem is not that we are God; I don't believe that. The problem is that Scripture uses the same word for some men with a high calling (though less than ours) that it uses in the Scripture in Hebrews that we are using to prove Jesus is God. I'm not certain that the meaning of the word, as defined by Scripture, is as helpful as we thought, because one can say it suggests we are God too. (We prove Jesus is God because God the Father calls Him that in Hebrews. Yet He calls judges that in Psalms, and we are higher than judges according to Revelation.)

Obviously context defines the use of the word. It is quite obvious that the Jews understood full well how the word was to be understood in the confines of the Psalms 82 text. They did not equate the use of Elohim in connection to those judges as being in any way gods in the intrinsic sense. Yet when Elohim is used in the last verse, there is no question as to who is being revered to here. "Rise up, O God, judge the earth."