Mark of the beast is sunday laws.

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danschance

Guest
This means keeping the law is impossible for men to do. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), but thank God that He has provided the way to be saved thru faith (John 3:16). Your heavy emphasis on external works takes away from the message of the cross Eph. 2:8. You seem to forget that good works will never erase sin (Heb. 9:22). Forgiveness of sin only comes from the blood of Christ only (Rom. 3:25). You continually tell others to obey the commandments and obey the sabbath, but not once that I can recall have you ever mentioned the blood of Christ and his forgiveness!

You should be ashamed of that!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
If you’re looking on the internet for answers, check out what these denominations themselves say about their own beliefs. There’s always tons of garbage thrown by people at different denominations. Again, you need to question those denominations themselves before you pass judgment on them. Even contact them personally so you can discuss their beliefs with them.
the problem with this is that cults always -deny- or -hide- what they actually believe from seekers...

talk to some mormon evangelists...they won't tell you about 'planet kolob'...or God being a perfected human...or God being married to a 'heavenly mother'....at least not until you are already caught up in their cult...

the scientologists have gone to court to try to prevent their teachings about 'xenu' from being made public...

adventists will tell you that they don't really believe in salvation by works...and i have even seen adventists on this site -deny- that they believe sunday laws are the mark of the beast or that jesus is the same as the archangel michael...

this is all for the purpose of keeping seekers from being 'turned off' by bizarre teachings until they have already been sucked into the cult...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Matthew 5:19

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Speak for yourself, gypsyhungry. What you claim is a direct contradiction of the above posted scripture of which you are guilty of doing and teaching. The meaningless jibberish you speak of is coming directly from you. And since it directly contradicts Christ's words, yes, I'm throwing it out in the trash as I would do any polluted garbage the carries disease. I'm also going to put your posts on ignore so they will no longer pollute my thinking.
Clearly you have no desire to seek the truth. If this continues, God may well turn you over to a reprobate mind. I'll just hope you aren't there already.


working from basic grammar...the word 'these' refers to something else in the context...not something from thirty-eight books prior...

so which commandments -in the context- are 'these'?

they are the commandments jesus spends the rest of the chapter talking about...in matthew 5:21-48
 
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Shiloah

Guest
the problem with this is that cults always -deny- or -hide- what they actually believe from seekers...

talk to some mormon evangelists...they won't tell you about 'planet kolob'...or God being a perfected human...or God being married to a 'heavenly mother'....at least not until you are already caught up in their cult...

the scientologists have gone to court to try to prevent their teachings about 'xenu' from being made public...

adventists will tell you that they don't really believe in salvation by works...and i have even seen adventists on this site -deny- that they believe sunday laws are the mark of the beast or that jesus is the same as the archangel michael...

this is all for the purpose of keeping seekers from being 'turned off' by bizarre teachings until they have already been sucked into the cult...
Well I'm sure that's true. But if you go into any type of research about anyone, both the liars and those telling the truth will say the same things, that they are telling the truth. So do you throw out those telling the truth because there are liars in this world? No one's asking you or anyone else to even join one of these churches. These discussions are strictly about the topics being discussed. Again, no one is pushing any denomination here. I don't know that the mark of the beast is about the sabbath, but I do have a big problem with people that say sabbath keepers are all cult members. From what I've seen online, even 7th day Adventists debate amongst themselves whether or not the mark of the beast is really about sabbath keeping.

And then at the last, as is usual, I scoff in frustration, because there are many churches in this world that keep sabbath on the 7th day of the week that have nothing to do with the 7th day Adventists. And no, they are no offshoots of the 7th day Adventists either. Besides, churches are continually reforming, putting away doctrines they've come to believe are unnecessary and alike. I'll bet this is true of the 7th day Adventists as much as anyone else. We are all continually coming to the knowledge of the truth for as long as we live on this earth.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
I believed as you did, or I was brainwashed as you are until my late 20s when I learned about scriptures in a way that brought them all together so that they made perfect sense. Again, I was not raised on anything else but what you teach. Now I know what true brain-washing is. It's the modern Christian world believing all that's been taught to them by what you continually brag about, the doctrinal education you use have received, and hence, base your false teachings upon. I understand the essence of scripture by way of the Holy Spirit not by way of indoctrination the modern day Christian world regularly receives which distorts the very words of Christ Himself to the point they are entirely nullified, that is to say, if truth did not have a life of its own as ordained by God. You continually use your studies of the interpretations and doctrines of men to substantiate all you false doctrines upon; I use only the words of Christ Himself.
well if you think scripture is all about keeping commandments...then -no- you -don't- understand the essence of scripture...you have completely missed the central lesson of scripture and of christianity...namely salvation only by grace through faith in christ...
 
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Shiloah

Guest
well if you think scripture is all about keeping commandments...then -no- you -don't- understand the essence of scripture...you have completely missed the central lesson of scripture and of christianity...namely salvation only by grace through faith in christ...
Well certainly I do not think that. It just ends up seeming that way on threads such as this. Obviously obviously obviously our salvation comes by way of grace alone through Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Oh, by the way, I'm an annihilationist. I find it profoundly telling that those that teach we no longer need to keep God's law also teach that God sends us to hell where we remain in conscious torment forever and ever, in essence, a never-ending torture chamber. I keep God's laws because He told me too, because He has saved me from hopelessness and He's promised to give me Himself, in essence, meaning eternal life with HIM. That's my reward, to be with that ONE I love forever. I do nothing in fear of eternal torment because I don't believe in it. Again, I do what I do out of love for my Lord, my King, and my God.
actually it isn't surprising for a sabbath keeper to believe in annihilationism...both notions are a product of the 'keeping a record of wrongs' mindset of legalism...as opposed to the 'all or nothing' consequences of the truth of salvation by grace through faith...

in annihilationism the legalism shows up in the reasoning that sins are finite and therefore the worst a person can ever 'earn' is a finite punishment

on the other hand it follows logically from salvation by grace through faith that a person is either the subject of God's infinite favor or his infinite wrath...
 

FIRE_of_ELIJAH

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2013
387
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By studying Daniel 7, one can realise whose the little horn power that is also described in Revelation 13 as the beast that comes up out of the see. In Daniel 7, daniel prophesies of four kingdoms. These four were historically Babylon, medo-persia, greece, and Rome. The third beast split into four kingdoms, that's why it had four heads. When Alexander the great died, his kingdom was taken over by his four generals. Each one took a part of the kingdom. The fourth beast historically was Rome. Which was divided in 476 ad into ten nations --> that's why it had ten horns. Now a little horn comes up among these ten. The ONLY OTHER POWER that arose among the ten nations, and plucked up three of the ten, was the POPE. Heruli, vandals, and the ostrogoths were the ones destroyed. Pope ascended into supreme power in 538 ad. Now daniel said this horn will speak great words against the most High. Shall destroy the saints. Rule for a time and times and half a time. Think to change times and laws.
The popes did this:
The blasphemes God when they claimed numerous times in writing as well as openly that they were God. "All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ...all the same names are applied to the Pope"- Robert Bellarmine, Disputationes de Controversiis, Tom. 2.
"“Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the
lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca , “Papa”, art. 2.
"The very title, pope, means “papa,” or “father.” It is a title which in rel igious usage belongs
only to God, as Christ pointed out: “And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your
Father, which is in heaven.” Matthew 23:9.
“They have assumed infallibility, which belongs only to God. They profess to forgive sins,
which belongs only to God. They profess to open and shut heaven, which belongs only
to God. They profess to be higher than all the kings of the earth, which belongs only to
God. And they go beyond God in pretending to loose whole nations from their oath of
allegience to their kings, when such kings do not please them. And they go against God,
when they give indulgences for sin . This is the worst of all blasphemies.” Adam Clarke,
Commentary, on Daniel 7:25."

Now the popes fulfilled the prophecy of destroying and making war on the saints of God! Anyone remember the horibble outcome of religious intolerance that occured in the dark ages? "“That the Church of Rome has shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has
ever existed among mankind, will be questioned by no Protestant who has a competent
knowledge of history....It is impossible to form a complete conception of the multitude
of her victims, and it is quite certain that no powers of imagination can adequately realise
their sufferings.” History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europe,
Vol 2, p 40, by W.E.H. Lecky, (1955 ed.)."

Did the popes rule for a time and times and half a time? Now one needs to just remember that this word time was written in amaric, and it means a year. And times in aramic came from "two years", and half a time is half a year. Did the popes reign for 3.5 prophetic years? 3.5 prophetic years is the same as 42 months! (12 months per year). Now the best amazing thing about this is that there are parallels in prophecy! For John in revelation, said that this beast would continue for 42 months! And that he would make war with the saints and overcome them! Not only so, but John sees this beast having names of blasphemy, and speaking great words against God!
Now keep in mind that these 42 months or prophetic. In Bible, a month is 30 days, so 42 months is 1260 days. Now that's not a coincidece that 1260 days is mentioned in Revelation 12! And in revelation 11 both 42 months and 1260 days are mentioned! But what is the time scale that God uses? "Each day for a year", "each day for a year" numbers 14:34, ezekiel 4:6
Did the popes reign for 1260 years?! Yes. Pope ascended throne in 538 ad. In 1798 napoleon sent his general and abolished the power of the popes. 1798-538= 1260 years! Now is this amazing or what?
Here's another parallel too: paul in his letter to the thessalonians said talked about the "man of sin" "son of perdition" who "sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" 2 thessalonians 2:3-4. Now this is something you should know. Pope does sit on a white throne, and with two cherebiums on either side! What color was the throne that John saw on which God sits? White! (Revelation 20:11). And what did isaiah say about the one who sits between the cherebiums?! Isaiah 37:16!
Now everyone should totally understand! Now i know why the protestant reformers called the pope the antichrist. Martin luther. John knocks. King james. John weasley, william tyndale, and much more... But we don't take it from the words of men! We take it from the Holy Bible! It was daniel that prophesied of the four kingdoms and we just trace it down with history. All who would want to take the holy Bible is their sole rule of faith, must after studying Bible prophecy to be led to conclude that the pope is the antichrist. Plus it has to be because otherwise, no prophecy fulfills.
The last thing i would want to mention is thinking to change the times and laws.

Primarily, the activities of the Little Horn are directed not merely against human authority,
but against God Himself. Says the text, “He shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High.” The “times and laws” that he would “think to change” would
therefore be “of the most High.” The papacy would actually claim the right to alter divine precepts.
Consider the following statement made in Pope Nicholas’ time.
“The pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the commands of
Christ...He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right, by correcting and
changing laws....
“The pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even
divine laws....The pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God,
and he acts in the place of God upon earth, with the fullest power of binding and loosing
his sheep.” Prompta Bibliotheca, by Lucius Ferraris, under “Papa,” art. 2.

The pope has removed the second commandment, and has changed the fourth! Jesus said "think not that i am come to destroy the law" matthew 5:17. And paul says "shall we make the law void through faith, nay, but we establish it"- romans 3:31. The idea that a christian is released from obligation to the law of God is not founded from the Holy Bible. Jesus Himself in the last book of the Bible, prounounced a blessing to those that KEEP GOD's COMMANDMENTS:
"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city"- revelation 22:14.
The idea that you don't need the law is centered upon the belief of the popes and that's that.
Here's one striking statement Jesus makes, "it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail"- luke 16:17
Even the catholic church admits that in writing:
"“We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday.” Things
Catholics Are Asked About, p 136, by Martin J. Scott, 1927.

“Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday
theory, and ought, logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.” John Gilmary Shea,
quoted in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January, 1883.

“You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line
authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance
of Saturday, a day which we [Catholics] never sanctify.” The Faith of Our Fathers, p 72-
73, by James Cardinal Gibbons, 1917 ed.

“Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently
follow in this matter the tradition of the Church?” Bertrand L. Conway, quoted in The
Question Box Answers, 1910, p 255.



“No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for
the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can
be changed!! It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the change of the sabbath from the
seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who
changes times and laws ex officio – I think his name is DOCTOR
ANTICHRIST.”Alexander Campbell, quoted in The Christian Baptist, February 2, 1824,
vol. 1, no. 7. (This is a statement not from the catholic church ofcourse.)

“Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives:
either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping of
Sunday. Compromise is impossible.” Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.


“The church has changed the Sabbath into the Lord’s day by its own authority, concerning
which you have no Scripture.” Handbook of Common Places Against the Lutherans, by
Johann Eck, 1533.


“If you follow the Bible alone there can be no question that you are obliged to keep Saturday
holy, since that is the day especially prescribed by Almighty God to be kept holy to the
Lord. In keeping Sunday, non-Catholics are simply following the practise of the Catholic
Church for 1800 years, a tradition, and not a Bible ordinance....With the Catholics there
is no difficulty about the matter. For, since we deny that the Bible is the sole rule of faith,
we can fall back upon the constant practise and tradition of the Church.” Francis G.
Lentz, quoted in The Question Box, p 98-99, 1900.

And that my friends is just a few of the quotes that i can share. The beast has a mark according to Rev 13:16-17.
What does the vatican claim as its mark of authority?
"Sunday is our MARK of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact."- catholic record of london, ontario sept 1, 1923

The mark of the beast is sunday laws. The pope will regain power as rev 17 depicts the beast having ten horns. The new world order's leader will be the pope, and divided into ten seperate kingdoms.

"This organization proposes in every possible way to aid in preserving
Sunday as a civil institution. Our national security requires the active
support of all good citizens in the maintenance of our American Sabbath.
Sunday laws must be enforced." -Quoted as "principles contained in the
Constitution" of the original orginization (then called the American Sabbath
Union), cited in The Lord's Day Alliance, Twenty fifth Report (1913), p6

I hope you were blessed. For more info on who the antichrist is (25+ major prophecies that expose the pope is antichrist --> remnantofgod.org/666-CHAR.htm )
For more info on the mark of the beast : remnantofgod.org/mark.htm
For more info on the Law of God and all biblical facts that disprove the idea that you should not keep the Law: remnantofgod.org/law.htm
For more info on the Sabbath of God: remnantofgod.org/sabbath.htm

I totally am convinced that the Law of God should be kept for the Christian. The fact that Jesus died for you was proof that He did not change His law. He could have ommited the law and there would be no more sin. Sin is "the transgression of the law"- 1 John 3:4
And the love of God is keeping His commandments 1john 5:3
If anyone says he knows God but keeps not His commandments, you can be sure that the man is a liar: 1 john 2:4
How can people now claim that the law was abolished when Jesus my Christ and Lord said that it is going to endure even if the earth and heaven will pass? Who is my God? The people of today or my Jesus? Whom am i to believe?
I truly hope you were blessed. Christians who keep the Law cannot get the mark of the beast: revelation 14:12
Amen.
​Endless and POINTLESS !!!!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
To assume that the fellow listing a few commandments in reply to Jesus' question as to what was written in the law suddenly nullified all commandments not mentioned by this fellow is a preposterous assertion.

You find me where Christ said any one of the 10 commandments is no longer to be kept, I'll pay attention.
you should at least find it interesting that jesus took several opportunities to list or outline the commandments...and yet never once told anyone to keep the sabbath...
 
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Shiloah

Guest
working from basic grammar...the word 'these' refers to something else in the context...not something from thirty-eight books prior...

so which commandments -in the context- are 'these'?

they are the commandments jesus spends the rest of the chapter talking about...in matthew 5:21-48


I don't interpret that to mean "these that were just spoken of." Again, I would think that if a Law of God had been set aside by Christ, He clearly would have said so. Often, in scriptures, He said to keep His commandments, or keep the commandments. He never said "this or that one is no longer included."

Must go for the evening.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
​Endless and POINTLESS !!!!
That's the best you can do? This is a discussion forum. Produce scriptures to prove any point you want to make. Throwing silly unfounded insults just makes you look foolish.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
you should at least find it interesting that jesus took several opportunities to list or outline the commandments...and yet never once told anyone to keep the sabbath...
Why would He? (Mention every last one of them, I mean). Everyone He was speaking to knew the 10 commandments? These weren't a bunch of gentiles. He said, "even the least" which implies to me He was speaking of all of them.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Well certainly I do not think that. It just ends up seeming that way on threads such as this. Obviously obviously obviously our salvation comes by way of grace alone through Christ Jesus our Lord.
if you believe that then you should have no trouble rejecting the false teaching that the mark of the beast has anything to do with the sabbath...

if salvation depends on God's grace alone then you cannot forfeit your salvation by a -work- such as sunday observance...
 
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Shiloah

Guest
actually it isn't surprising for a sabbath keeper to believe in annihilationism...both notions are a product of the 'keeping a record of wrongs' mindset of legalism...as opposed to the 'all or nothing' consequences of the truth of salvation by grace through faith...

in annihilationism the legalism shows up in the reasoning that sins are finite and therefore the worst a person can ever 'earn' is a finite punishment

on the other hand it follows logically from salvation by grace through faith that a person is either the subject of God's infinite favor or his infinite wrath...
I'm actually far more sure that scriptures teach annialationism than anything else. That belief has nothing whatsoever to do with the sabbath issue. That's another study in itself.

I think it's so crazy that because I keep the fourth commandment, I'm called a legalist. Never mind keeping the other 9. Then I'm obviously one of those that knows I'm saved by grace. But keep that sabbath commandment? I'm instantly a legalist.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Why would He? (Mention every last one of them, I mean). Everyone He was speaking to knew the 10 commandments? These weren't a bunch of gentiles. He said, "even the least" which implies to me He was speaking of all of them.
you could go through the new testament and show that the other nine commandments are all reiterated at least once...

once you have done that...the conspicuous silence of the new testament about keeping the sabbath commandment should at least make you curious...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
I think it's so crazy that because I keep the fourth commandment, I'm called a legalist. Never mind keeping the other 9. Then I'm obviously one of those that knows I'm saved by grace. But keep that sabbath commandment? I'm instantly a legalist.
this isn't exactly it...

if you think you are more obedient and therefore God is more pleased with you just because you keep one more commandment than everyone else...or if you think that we are less obedient and therefore God is less pleased with us just because we keep one less commandment than you...then you entirely miss the meaning of salvation only by grace through faith in christ...

christ's atonement does more than just giving us infinite 'do overs' as we try and try to obey the law to please God...christ's atonement says -God is pleased- and that it has -nothing whatosever- to do with our standing according to the law...
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Why would He? (Mention every last one of them, I mean). Everyone He was speaking to knew the 10 commandments? These weren't a bunch of gentiles. He said, "even the least" which implies to me He was speaking of all of them.
He kept His Father's Commandments.

then He stood on the Mountain and gave 10 commandments.

Sinai Sabbath isn't one of them.

....

there are some common themes among judaized factions of every stripe (HR; SDA; CoG) - they claim to take the bible as a whole...yet ironically they can't or won't.

there's a curious fuzziness around their understanding the Trinity as well....which is why Modalism is so common in those groups.

:)

i've heard the idea that the Father (OT) gets upset that the Son (NT) gets so much attention.
nutty things like that.
 
May 18, 2010
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whence cometh wars among you?

Excuse me, coming through yet again...

[h=3]Colossians 2:16-17[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.



[h=3]Romans 14:5-6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a]and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
  1. Romans 14:6 NU-Text omits the rest of this sentence.

I guess even the NU-Text had a problem with this.

 

FIRE_of_ELIJAH

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2013
387
19
18
That's the best you can do? This is a discussion forum. Produce scriptures to prove any point you want to make. Throwing silly unfounded insults just makes you look foolish.
Why should I engage in pointless discussion? We gain nothing for that but quarrels and division. My focus is to share the Love and the saving grace of Christ...not your saturday keeping rituals !!!

Worshiping in sunday won't make me devil. We can worship the Lord at any days or hours.