Pre Trib Rapture Moment 13: What are Post Tribbers afraid of?
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um......
1) of another gaggle of Campingites losing their faith entirely after waiting on a hillside for the rapture
2) another gaggle of fanatics on streetcorners warning everybody when the clock strikes midnight...
3) another gaggle of pretribbers embarrassing the Church
4) more people withdrawing; spending; giving away all their life savings and waking up broke and still on earth
5) that christians don't read their Bibles and see there's no pretrib rapture
6) that fiction writers and hollywood make billions from gullible people.
etc.
The Pretrib. Rapture is taught in the Scriptures.
And you cannot prove otherwise zone. Your problem is that you do not rightly divide the word of truth.
You cannot handle sound doctrine. So you attack it.
You post tribbers are looking for the antichrist.
While we King James Bible believers who believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture are looking for Jesus Christ. We Pre-trib. Rapture believers love the Lord's appearing and we are looking for Jesus Christ.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:5-8 (King James Bible)
And you cannot prove otherwise zone. Your problem is that you do not rightly divide the word of truth.
You cannot handle sound doctrine. So you attack it.
You post tribbers are looking for the antichrist.
While we King James Bible believers who believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture are looking for Jesus Christ. We Pre-trib. Rapture believers love the Lord's appearing and we are looking for Jesus Christ.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:5-8 (King James Bible)
1
I don't buy into the whole future seven year trib with silent rapture theory.
But if I were a post tribber......I'd laugh at the thought that it's the post tribbers who are loaded with fear..
Post tribbers believe they're going to go through the worst time in the history of this planet.
It takes tons of guts to believe that.
It doesn't take much courage to believe you'll be swooped out just before everything goes downhill.
But if I were a post tribber......I'd laugh at the thought that it's the post tribbers who are loaded with fear..
Post tribbers believe they're going to go through the worst time in the history of this planet.
It takes tons of guts to believe that.
It doesn't take much courage to believe you'll be swooped out just before everything goes downhill.
1
Ok I watched most of it.
This guy sure is getting bent because some folks decided not to watch all of one of his videos.
Then from there he's drawing crazy conclusions about them having pride.
Then he goes on to scorn them as prideful.
Maybe they just didn't want to sit through all of it?
This fella needs a Big Mac N Happy Meal so he can cheer up.
This guy sure is getting bent because some folks decided not to watch all of one of his videos.
Then from there he's drawing crazy conclusions about them having pride.
Then he goes on to scorn them as prideful.
Maybe they just didn't want to sit through all of it?
This fella needs a Big Mac N Happy Meal so he can cheer up.
Well the Post tribbers are most likely afraid of the Judgment Seat of Christ. Bryan Denlinger points that out in one of his videos. Also, if you look at a lot of the Post trib. charts and time-lines, not a lot of them will have the Judgment Seat listed of Christ on them.
But the point is, no Christian is going to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. It is not going to happen.
Because the Body of Christ cannot be on the Earth at the same time that the antichrist is on the earth.
The time of Jacob's trouble is to bring the Jews into correction. It is not for Gentile Christians.
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith theLord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the Lord; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
18 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the Lord.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it. - Jeremiah 30:1-24 (King James Bible)
So the time of Jacob's trouble is to correct unbelieving Israel. It is not for the Church. The Church is going to be ruptured out right before the time of Jacob's trouble starts.
But the point is, no Christian is going to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. It is not going to happen.
Because the Body of Christ cannot be on the Earth at the same time that the antichrist is on the earth.
The time of Jacob's trouble is to bring the Jews into correction. It is not for Gentile Christians.
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith theLord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.
13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.
14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.
15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.
16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the Lord; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
18 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.
19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the Lord.
22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it. - Jeremiah 30:1-24 (King James Bible)
So the time of Jacob's trouble is to correct unbelieving Israel. It is not for the Church. The Church is going to be ruptured out right before the time of Jacob's trouble starts.
Yes 1Still_waters, that did happen. But what's going on in israel now?
Does the Nation of Israel accept Jesus Christ today?
Do the Jews believe and read the New Testament?
Right now the majority of the Jews are in unbelief. They do not believe the Gospel. That is why in the time of Jacob's trouble, Moses and Elijah will come back and will be confirming the New Testament with signs. Why? because the Jews require a sign (1 Cor. 1:22.)
Does the Nation of Israel accept Jesus Christ today?
Do the Jews believe and read the New Testament?
Right now the majority of the Jews are in unbelief. They do not believe the Gospel. That is why in the time of Jacob's trouble, Moses and Elijah will come back and will be confirming the New Testament with signs. Why? because the Jews require a sign (1 Cor. 1:22.)
K
I have different view point. Their are many people going to be saved during the trib. Most will be killed, but not all. Many people think that when Jesus returns, that's it. We all go to heaven in a little row boat. That is not the case. Jesus returns, defeats the Antichrist and rules on this earth for 1,000 years. Who shall he reign over? Certainly not us because we are reign to with Him. So who?
1
Your questions and statements are built on so many assumptions.
You assume what's going on in the modern secular nation state known as Israel right now has anything to do with anything prophetic. You assume it takes some gathering to some land in order for them to be reached by the gospel.
And this whole label "Jacob's trouble".
That phrase has almost morphed into some sort of dog whistle word, where when it's said all these assumptions arise that something in the future called "Jacob's trouble" actually exists. I know it's a nifty sounding set of words, but you assume there is such a thing titled jacob's trouble in the future which will contain all of your assumptions.
You assume the "Jews" that exist today in secular Israel are the same genetic stock as what is referred to in the Bible.
And when Paul says the Jews require a sign in 1 Cor 1:22, he's not saying that to mean God is going to give them a sign. He's saying that in a VERY negative way, meaning he's not giving anyone signs, he's just preaching Jesus crucified because that's enough.
You have this web of assumptions that's been knit into a theory, but many of the assumptions that hold up said theory may not be correct. And if not correct, said theory collapses.
You assume what's going on in the modern secular nation state known as Israel right now has anything to do with anything prophetic. You assume it takes some gathering to some land in order for them to be reached by the gospel.
And this whole label "Jacob's trouble".
That phrase has almost morphed into some sort of dog whistle word, where when it's said all these assumptions arise that something in the future called "Jacob's trouble" actually exists. I know it's a nifty sounding set of words, but you assume there is such a thing titled jacob's trouble in the future which will contain all of your assumptions.
You assume the "Jews" that exist today in secular Israel are the same genetic stock as what is referred to in the Bible.
And when Paul says the Jews require a sign in 1 Cor 1:22, he's not saying that to mean God is going to give them a sign. He's saying that in a VERY negative way, meaning he's not giving anyone signs, he's just preaching Jesus crucified because that's enough.
You have this web of assumptions that's been knit into a theory, but many of the assumptions that hold up said theory may not be correct. And if not correct, said theory collapses.
1
Listen.
I'm not going to sit here and declare people on the highway to hades if they disagree with me on this.
But I seriously feel compelled to type all of this.
I hope it's not out of a fleshly desire to be right.
I feel I must get this out.
I began my prophetic views as believing in a future pre trib rapture, with a seven year tribulation and all of that.
But then I read Matthew 24 and I saw the theory didn't fit.
I became what would be called post-trib.
I believed in the future seven year trib, but the "rapture" was after that.
Why did I arrive at these conclusions?
Well I read my Bible.
The first thing I noticed is that Jesus came on the clouds AFTER the tribulation, and that's when everyone got gathered to meet him in the air. Look, it's right here.
And before that I noticed a few things also.
I saw him telling believers they would see the abomination of desolation.
I saw him telling believers that they should flee Jerusalem.
I saw him telling believers they would hear of those telling false Christs.
Now if believers were raptured out, how in the world could they see all of this?
Also if they were already gathered in heaven, then is there a second gathering in verse 31?
All of this dislodged me from a pre-trib view.
It was simply too overwhelming.
I couldn't get around it.
After more in depth study, I'm VERY sure Matthew 24 has NOTHING to do with any future tribulation or silent rapture. But i won't expound on that here.
All i'm saying is, hey read Matthew 24. If you believe the trib is future, fine! But there is no way in the world you can believe in a pre trib rapture.(Meaning I simply don't understand how you can see it. Not meaning you're banned if you believe in it. Sometimes I forget I'm a mod, and statements like I just made could be interpreted a certain way lol.)
I just felt compelled to type all that.
Again I'm not declaring eternal fire for anyone who disagrees.
I'm not going to sit here and declare people on the highway to hades if they disagree with me on this.
But I seriously feel compelled to type all of this.
I hope it's not out of a fleshly desire to be right.
I feel I must get this out.
I began my prophetic views as believing in a future pre trib rapture, with a seven year tribulation and all of that.
But then I read Matthew 24 and I saw the theory didn't fit.
I became what would be called post-trib.
I believed in the future seven year trib, but the "rapture" was after that.
Why did I arrive at these conclusions?
Well I read my Bible.
The first thing I noticed is that Jesus came on the clouds AFTER the tribulation, and that's when everyone got gathered to meet him in the air. Look, it's right here.
And before that I noticed a few things also.
I saw him telling believers they would see the abomination of desolation.
I saw him telling believers that they should flee Jerusalem.
I saw him telling believers they would hear of those telling false Christs.
Now if believers were raptured out, how in the world could they see all of this?
Also if they were already gathered in heaven, then is there a second gathering in verse 31?
All of this dislodged me from a pre-trib view.
It was simply too overwhelming.
I couldn't get around it.
After more in depth study, I'm VERY sure Matthew 24 has NOTHING to do with any future tribulation or silent rapture. But i won't expound on that here.
All i'm saying is, hey read Matthew 24. If you believe the trib is future, fine! But there is no way in the world you can believe in a pre trib rapture.(Meaning I simply don't understand how you can see it. Not meaning you're banned if you believe in it. Sometimes I forget I'm a mod, and statements like I just made could be interpreted a certain way lol.)
I just felt compelled to type all that.
Again I'm not declaring eternal fire for anyone who disagrees.
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No that's not it 1Still_waters, you see this future time period known as the time of Jacob's trouble is not a theory. It is a very real event that will take place. It is taught in Daniel 9, Jeremiah 30, Hebrews 10, and other passages.
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. - Jeremiah 30:1-11 (Holy Bible)
There will be a time period in the future where God will again deal directly with the Nation of Israel. Read Revelation 1still_Waters, Read about the 12 sealed tribes, 144,000 Jews that are sealed in their foreheads with the seal of God (Revelation 7). Also read about the two witnesses, which are Moses and Elijah (Revelation 11).
These statements are not at all based on my assumptions. They are based on fact. The Scriptures teach about a future event called the time of Jacob's trouble.
Well 1Still_waters, in this Dispensation which is the Church Age, there are no signs being given. Why? because right now, God is still dealing with the Gentile Nations. In the time of Jacob's trouble though, God will move His focus back onto the Nation of Israel. That's why Moses and Elijah, the two witnesses are sent during the time of Jacob's trouble.
Who do the Jews respect and revere the most? Is it Paul? Is it Peter? Not really. But the man, the prophet that the Jews highly respect and esteem is Moses. Who better to send to the Jews than Moses and Elijah to confirm the New Testament with Signs following.
By the way 1still_Waters, here is proof that Moses and Elijah (the two witnesses) will be doing signs and wonders in the time of Jacob's trouble:
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. - Revelation 11:1-19 (Holy Bible)
These two witnesses have the power to make fire come and proceed out of their mouth to devour their enemies, they also have power to the shut heaven, that it does not rain, and they also have power to turn the waters into blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
That sounds to me that they will be doing signs and wonders. Why? Because they are dealing with the Jews. It is that simple 1still_waters, the Jews require a sign. So when we compare Scripture with Scripture. We see why the Two Witnesses are given power to do these signs during their prophesying in the time of Jacob's trouble. Again 1still_waters, when you compare Scripture with Scripture and rightly divide the word of truth, it all adds up and it all makes sense.
30 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. - Jeremiah 30:1-11 (Holy Bible)
There will be a time period in the future where God will again deal directly with the Nation of Israel. Read Revelation 1still_Waters, Read about the 12 sealed tribes, 144,000 Jews that are sealed in their foreheads with the seal of God (Revelation 7). Also read about the two witnesses, which are Moses and Elijah (Revelation 11).
These statements are not at all based on my assumptions. They are based on fact. The Scriptures teach about a future event called the time of Jacob's trouble.
Well 1Still_waters, in this Dispensation which is the Church Age, there are no signs being given. Why? because right now, God is still dealing with the Gentile Nations. In the time of Jacob's trouble though, God will move His focus back onto the Nation of Israel. That's why Moses and Elijah, the two witnesses are sent during the time of Jacob's trouble.
Who do the Jews respect and revere the most? Is it Paul? Is it Peter? Not really. But the man, the prophet that the Jews highly respect and esteem is Moses. Who better to send to the Jews than Moses and Elijah to confirm the New Testament with Signs following.
By the way 1still_Waters, here is proof that Moses and Elijah (the two witnesses) will be doing signs and wonders in the time of Jacob's trouble:
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. - Revelation 11:1-19 (Holy Bible)
These two witnesses have the power to make fire come and proceed out of their mouth to devour their enemies, they also have power to the shut heaven, that it does not rain, and they also have power to turn the waters into blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
That sounds to me that they will be doing signs and wonders. Why? Because they are dealing with the Jews. It is that simple 1still_waters, the Jews require a sign. So when we compare Scripture with Scripture. We see why the Two Witnesses are given power to do these signs during their prophesying in the time of Jacob's trouble. Again 1still_waters, when you compare Scripture with Scripture and rightly divide the word of truth, it all adds up and it all makes sense.
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The Bible says God is against false teachers that say God said, but He did not tell them anything. He is against the fly away teaching ( rapture )
Ezekiel 13: ( The chapter is addressing lying teachers pastors ministers evangelist , etc )
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows( that hide God's hands of salvation and correction ), wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs ( coverings of lies like rapture -over peoples heads so they cant see the truth ) also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
I suggest you all read and understand what the chapter is saying.
Ezekiel 13: ( The chapter is addressing lying teachers pastors ministers evangelist , etc )
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows( that hide God's hands of salvation and correction ), wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs ( coverings of lies like rapture -over peoples heads so they cant see the truth ) also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
I suggest you all read and understand what the chapter is saying.
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