Speaking in tongues

JaumeJ · May 21, 2013

After some thought. Your first two quotes have the appearance of being related, because reference is made to speaking and hearing, but none to the OP, so that may be discounted as having anything at all to do with the thread.

Your second two are very important teachings also, and also have nothing to do with the thread.

The first in Matthew treats the subject of judging to damnation, and never practice this because with the judgment anyone who loves Jesus metes out, he will be judged.

Now judging with right judgment should be taken hand in hand with our Lord's teaching that we should judge for ourselves what is right. That means judging only for ourselves what is right, but never judging to damnation. We do not judge according to what we see, rather we judge according to what is right and correct.

Please do not send more scripture to look up, this is not my idea of a forum. If you have something that actually applies to what is being discussed, by all means include it.

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

JaumeJ said:

JaumeJ · May 21, 2013

If you feel up to it, look how my posts with scripture have been warped. Of course I believe I understand what I am posting. I could be wrong on some point or another, but I do not believe so, because I really do base my beief on what I read in the Bible, and never on what is written about the Bible as many in this particular thread do. And now I am unsubscribed to this post.

Cee said:

Cee · May 21, 2013

I am wrong in what I said, I am sure people are seeking the truth, but it doesn't appear like what I have to share is doing any good. So for that reason, I will probably be done here. If anyone is really looking at the Scripture support for tongues and prophesy I have tried to be as thorough as possible in my posts prior to this one.

It's okay, I pray the Holy Spirit will show us all more of Him and guide us in all truth contained in His Scriptures.

C.

Cee said:

Stephen63 · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

Cee, my brother,it's not about who's posting against you or disagreeing with you. If you would look under "latest activity" at the top of the page, find this thread and notice how many people have been reading this thread. My last look showed 3650 views. That's a lot of people reading what you quoted. Even if all of them didn't see what you wrote, it still has to be a lot.

Cee · May 21, 2013

I addressed this... 1 Co 14.

And they refused to listen to ME.

Tongues then are a sign for the unbeliever. Because people refuse to listen to God that He is speaking to them. It definitely doesn't say and with a tongue they can understand, they will listen to God through them. It says "another tongue" and "stammering lips" sounds a lot like what comes out of my mouth. Lol. But, people refuse to believe it is of Him. Seems to be the case here too.

As far as angelic sayings in undescribable words... 2 Co 12

2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

This word here in the Greek may not utter is the same as Romans account for the Spirit praying through us. I address all this in my prior post.

And in regards to a historical account of speaking in tongues...

Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church | Christian Assemblies International

We see here that sometimes the Holy Spirit uses human languages, but at other times it is merely "other tongues". But considering I know the gift, I have the gift, this is a lot like trying to prove a stove is hot when the person is unwilling to touch it.

And further that person thinks I am wrong for saying the stove is hot. And if 1 Co 13 was about gifts ceasing, which is definitely not the case, history shows this. And so does present time. Why did Paul say quite clearly in 1 co 14:39...

39Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

1 Co 13 is about love being shown in the gifts. It is about everything passing away, but love. The word "Scripture" isn't even found in 1 Co 13. Perfect is, but that's talking about love as we can see quite clearly from 1 Co 13:1-8.

The Spirit is showing me SarahM you are open to learning truth, I don't mind your questions SarahM, but please be a good steward and pray about the answers you receive. He will give you guidance, don't let a hard heart not allow you to hear truth. It happens a lot unfortunately. I had to pray for months for forgiveness for people and for healing from past wounds. Once the Spirit softened my heart I was able to hear Him far more clearly.

C.

JaumeJ said:

Stephen63 · May 21, 2013

To add to that, I believe many of those people have enough brains to realize who's trying to build a kingdom and who's trying to tear it down.

Stephen63 · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

We see here that sometimes the Holy Spirit uses human languages, but at other times it is merely "other tongues". But considering I know the gift, I have the gift, this is a lot like trying to prove a stove is hot when the person is unwilling to touch it.

And further that person thinks I am wrong for saying the stove is hot. And if 1 Co 13 was about gifts ceasing, which is definitely not the case, history shows this. And so does present time. Why did Paul say quite clearly in 1 co 14:39...

Yup. You got that right.

kardiaoangelous · May 21, 2013

JaumeJ said:

As far as Matthew 7:1 and John 7:24 are concerned, what are those verses really telling us?

They are telling us, Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Romans 2:1) "For thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself); and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

(Romans 2:3) ... thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

In other words, don't let outward appearances deceive you, for anyone can put on a good show, but by the righteousness of God's word, untainted by your fleshly respect of men, judge the conduct of yourself first and then of those you choose to have a sharing with with. And that includes judging with the scriptures how they handle the responsibility to rightly divide God's word.

2 Timothy 2:21 "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

Now can you understand those verses better? I truly hope so.

God loves you and so do I.

zone · May 21, 2013

JaumeJ said:

Zep 3:9
(ASV)
For then will I turn to the peoples of a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent.
(Darby)
For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent.
(DRB)
Because then I will restore to the people a chosen lip, that all may call upon the name of the Lord, and may serve him with one shoulder.
(FDB)
Car alors, je changerai la langue des peuples en une langue purifiée, pour qu'ils invoquent tous le nom de l'Éternel pour le servir d'un seul coeur.
(FLS)
Alors je donnerai aux peuples des lèvres pures, Afin qu'ils invoquent tous le nom de l'Éternel, Pour le servir d'un commun accord.
(HOT)
כי־אז אהפך אל־עמים שׂפה ברורה לקרא כלם בשׁם יהוה לעבדו שׁכם אחד׃
(HOT+)
כי[SUP]H3588 אזH227 אהפךH2015 אלH413 עמיםH5971 שׂפהH8193 ברורהH1305 לקראH7121 כלםH3605 בשׁםH8034 יהוהH3068 לעבדוH5647 שׁכםH7926 אחד׃H259 [/SUP]
[SUP](INR)
Allora io trasformerò le labbra dei popoli in labbra pure, affinché tutti invochino il nome del SIGNORE, per servirlo di comune accordo.
(IRL)
Poiché allora io muterò in labbra pure le labbra dei popoli, affinché tutti invochino il nome dell'Eterno, per servirlo di pari consentimento.
(JPS)
For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
(KJV)
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
(KJV+)
ForH3588 thenH227 will I turnH2015 toH413 the peopleH5971 a pureH1305 language,H8193 that they may allH3605 callH7121 upon the nameH8034 of the LORD,H3068 to serveH5647 him with oneH259 consent.H7926
(ROB)
Atunci voi da popoarelor buze curate, ca toate să se roage Domnului şi cu râvnă să-I slujească Lui.
(SSE)
Porque entonces volveré yo a los pueblos el lenguaje puro, para que todos invoquen el nombre del SEÑOR, para que de un solo consentimiento le sirvan.
(Vulgate)
quia tunc reddam populis labium electum ut vocent omnes in nomine Domini et serviant ei umero uno
(Webster)
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
　
[/SUP]

is any of that this:

[video=youtube;omy24KC3LzU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omy24KC3LzU[/video]

is this the pure language (clean lips) of Zep 3:9?

if it's yes, then saying so ought to be straight forward.

zone · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

if you believe in modern prophets, you reject the authority of scripture.
it's really simple.

zone · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

of course there is scriptural support for languages and prophecy.
that's where they are discussed.

is there any possible way we can examine what people claim as tongues and prophecy TODAY?
can we PLEASE see if they are remotely the same?

if they are, the claims should stand.

zone · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

um.....

Isaiah 28:11
So now God will have to speak to his people through foreign oppressors who speak a strange language!

(Babylonians - they were going into captivity to foreign oppressors who spoke a strange language)

read the whole chapter (preferably the whole book).

zone · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

where?
where does history show pentecostalism?
or even the continuation of the gift of world languages?

you know, the first pentecostalists believed tongues were literal human languages.
they thought they could go do missionary work and miraculously speak other languages.
they couldn't.

this other stuff came later.

could i see the history you claim shows continuation?
thanks.

jmlidea · May 21, 2013

abba ba dooi ma snedada ma waka la den wo le le me ka schna kama berdinos. ume ke bun-had! UME! lo lo kanede la mekkah se'verre, abba ba... abba da...

yeah just messin' around there

you'd think that people who spoke in tongues would at least all speak the same language, but every instance of speaking in tongues is different... one person may seldom repeat words and specific words are almost never shared by those under the Holy Spirit's influence. You'd think that at least one word, perhaps the name of Jesus, would be spoken in this 'holy language', consistently by everyone.

inge · May 21, 2013

Zone you keep this thread going so I guess your still wandering

lol, otherwise, making one time your point would be enough.

Next to that. I am personally grieved by the way you speak about my personal life and what my believes are. Instead of just really dinging into what I wrote sincerely I feel like you make fun of it so you make fun of me. You even quote me not quite right or read into in my words.
I like debates but this went too far.

I am NOT in the charismatic movement. You did not ask me...
Oh yes from origin my church WAS Pentecostal but as soon as weird (not BIBLICAL) things happened in several Pentecostal church in the Netherlands our church changed its name just to make sure we are not connected with it. My church is called evangelical (what is different in the Netherlands than in America) and we are on our own, figuring out what God wants not what any church history is telling us.

My grandfather was pastor. He learned me to study in the Bible to show myself approved. He lived faith from head to toes. Talking about church-history...hearing how God has worked even through weird circumstances opened my eyes to not judge like just judging humanly but always be open minded next to an open BIBLE (the right measure). My grandfather walked away from God after coming out of a (charismatic) cult. He came back to God by just reading the bible himself.

If there is any respect left. And you are sure you do not want to attack. Just don't mix all the weird stuff from internet ... with the good stuff from the BIBLE anymore. I don't throw mud on what you believe either nor do I say your church has really some weird ideas. Also I do not say you have weird ideas like you think you know better than Paul. I like clean debates, and some "fighting-spirit" in it too...have done it a lot....but throwing mud between Christians...no thanks not my cup of tea.

inge · May 21, 2013

Laughing about someones believe-system is not very respect full in my eyes.

Your point would have been clear enough without it.

notuptome · May 21, 2013

JaumeJ said:

If you are a teacher, if you understand from the Word what you wish to convey, please, teach and convey, but I do not accept homework assignments on forums.

If you are able to express youself with understanding of the Word, it is fairly certain I will understand.

Also, I like to believe it is not what you call my position, rather my belief and faith in what the Holy Spirit has given me from the Word.

Good grief.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Cee · May 21, 2013

Talking to you is a waste of both our time, unfortunately.

I was clearing quoting Isaiah 22 from 1 Co 14. Yet you completely disregarded that>

I also gave you a simple link to look at on the history of tongues being spoken. Yet you disregarded that.

I've shown in Scripture where Paul clearly says, it's tongue of angels, that you are speaking to God, building yourself up, and I showed what a sign for unbelievers meant. Yet you disregarded that.

You say I reject the authority of Scripture, but you reject the Words of Jesus, who says we shall speak with new tongues, heal the sick, and do many more things in His Name. He says all WHO BELIEVE and He tells the Disciples to teach as He has taught them to others... You reject this.

You say that gifts have ceased, but I have shown how clearly 1 Co 13 is talking about Love, Love, and More Love. Yet you insert Scripture as being the perfect so that you can say gifts have ceased. You disregarded this as well.

You say that I reject the authority of Scripture because I believe there are prophets today, but you reject Scripture that says to earnestly desire prophesy and forbid no one to speak in tongues. Now if tongues is just interpretation of other languages, why would prophesy be necessary? Prophesy is still in effect today.

It also does not reject the authority of Scripture it illuminates it and reveals the Author who wrote Scripture. If you have not earnestly desired prophesy and you forbid tongues it is you who reject the authority of Scripture. Not I.

It is you who have rejected the works I do, they shall do in My name and greater. It is you who reject that we are led by the Spirit not Scripture. And it is you who reject that God still speaks to people today even through other people.

So, for those reasons I think this has become a very wasteful use of both our time. Mine because I don't like to repeat myself and yours because you have already decided what Scripture means to you, regardless of what I post. If I knew you in person I could pray with you, love on you, and you could see from example what prophesy means in regards to edification, comfort, and encouragement... unfortunately this is not the case so words on text are all we have and I don't think this is going to be useful to either of us.

Holy Spirit thank you for illuminating Your Word and Your Life in us. As we carry You through the world, may You continue your ministry through us, in Jesus Name. May your Kingdom come here every day we live as you have told us to pray.

C.

zone said:

zone · May 21, 2013

inge said:

i have no idea about your personal life.

inge said:

the discussion is about tongues.

inge said:

no idea what you're talking about.
i've read all your posts. i know what you're saying.

this is an extremely serious matter.

inge said:

no clue what you're talking about.
the issue is tongues and the pentecostal claim that is the Biblical miraculous languages.

inge said:

if people are claiming prophets and what passes for tongues (angelic or otherwise), that's all the same thing.
different names.

inge said:

okay.

inge said:

if you mean babbling incoherently; modern prophets; words from God or any of the things in the videos or writings or posts i've made, that's the topic.

those things are not the good things from the bible.

inge said:

okay.

throwing mud? i'm not entirely certain people who do these things are christians.

explain the doctrines and practices.
or not.
that's what i'm asking.

if people can't or won't that's fine.
all those gifts ceased. todays' stuff is an entirely different thing.

bubye then

zone · May 21, 2013

Cee said:

you mean Isaiah and Paul meant two different things?

Speaking in tongues

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