Speaking in tongues
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Until people let go of their religious beliefs then you cannot see what it is truly saying. But until then all , you will see is a bunch of religious beliefs and opinions rather than the truth of it. Religion is like saying clouds look like mountains or animals etc. When the truth of it is....they are just clouds. Not what you think they look like.
okay: are you saying you were actually for certain shown by God that the lady had gone to heaven - or just that angels rushed to the scene?
are you saying you received that vision specifically to convince an unsaved man that his unsaved wife was - what? - not clear on why you received the vision?
because if it was not certain what you were to convey through the vision (was she saved); why would you be given the vision at all?
and what does tongues have to do with it?
modern pentecostal tongues means generally you have visions also in that realm people call "in the Spirit"?
the answer is yes. consistently.
ricky could you reply keeping this in mind?:
"I know what I'm praying about when I pray in the spirit."
what was the presumably Divine answer to the unsaved man?
50/50 toss?
are you saying you received that vision specifically to convince an unsaved man that his unsaved wife was - what? - not clear on why you received the vision?
because if it was not certain what you were to convey through the vision (was she saved); why would you be given the vision at all?
and what does tongues have to do with it?
modern pentecostal tongues means generally you have visions also in that realm people call "in the Spirit"?
the answer is yes. consistently.
ricky could you reply keeping this in mind?:
"I know what I'm praying about when I pray in the spirit."
what was the presumably Divine answer to the unsaved man?
50/50 toss?
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1 Corinthians 14:22
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.
to whom first? - jews at jerusalem.
then gentiles - who was convinced by the gentiles speaking other languages? - jews!
that's all OVER WITH!
come on you guys...seriously
if there's anyone alive today who was at church in 54AD please come forward and tell us about the languages issue!
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers.
to whom first? - jews at jerusalem.
then gentiles - who was convinced by the gentiles speaking other languages? - jews!
that's all OVER WITH!
come on you guys...seriously
if there's anyone alive today who was at church in 54AD please come forward and tell us about the languages issue!
Your attempt to try and limit Joel's prophecy to some short period at the beginning of the age of grace, is lame to say the least...
'the sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.' Acts 2v20 with Matt 24v29-31, Rev 6v12-17...
There is only one 'great and awesome day of the Lord' mentioned in the Scriptures and that is the Day when the second Coming of Christ happens, when He appears in glory, so that every eye will see Him, when He comes to destroy not only the wicked but to take His people home...So you see the Baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit (including the gift of tongues) are indeed available right throughout the whole of the age of grace, right up until the 2nd Coming of Christ...
Do be a good girl and rightly divide the Word of Truth!
'the sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.' Acts 2v20 with Matt 24v29-31, Rev 6v12-17...
There is only one 'great and awesome day of the Lord' mentioned in the Scriptures and that is the Day when the second Coming of Christ happens, when He appears in glory, so that every eye will see Him, when He comes to destroy not only the wicked but to take His people home...So you see the Baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit (including the gift of tongues) are indeed available right throughout the whole of the age of grace, right up until the 2nd Coming of Christ...
Do be a good girl and rightly divide the Word of Truth!
first of all - and it's connected to Latter Rain theology - what's "the age of grace"?
can i find it somewhere here - by "Rightly Dividing up Redemptive History"?:
Dispensationalism seeks to address what many see as opposing theologies between the Old Testament and New Testament. Its name comes from the fact that it sees biblical history as best understood in light of a series of dispensations in the Bible. Most dispensationalists cite seven dispensations although this is not a critical or foundational factor to the theology:
the dispensation of innocence (Gen 1:1–3:7), prior to Adam's fall,
of conscience (Gen 3:8–8:22), Adam to Noah,
of government (Gen 9:1–11:32), Noah to Abraham,
of patriarchal rule (Gen 12:1–Exod 19:25), Abraham to Moses,
of the Mosaic Law (Exod 20:1–Acts 2:4), Moses to Christ,
of grace (Acts 2:4–Rev 20:3—except for Hyperdispensationalists and Ultradispensationalists), the current church age, and
of a literal, earthly 1,000-year Millennial Kingdom that has yet to come but soon will (Rev 20:4–20:6).
John Nelson Darby did not consider the Garden of Eden to represent a dispensation, and listed only six.
.....
concerning your claim of tongues (let's focus on that gift):
if you can show me the continuation of tongues throughout history, i will give it serious consideration.
if you must drum up reasons why they ceased or were suppressed (by the catholic church?), or left in neglect (ignorance?), or due to lack of faith (the most popular). please be detailed in documenting all that.
if you're able to show in scripture that the gifts would be poured out - then lost then recovered, it would be most convincing.
secular history; or church fathers will be okay. anything. where's the stop/restart proofs?
i notice you slipped in the ever so popular qualifier "available"
"So you see the Baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit (including the gift of tongues) are indeed available right throughout the whole of the age of grace"
thanks for addressing the age of grace as well.
Are the tongues for only non-believers? But shouldn't than Christians at that time speak it to convert others? What about what happened to Peter than....
Acts 10:44-48 (Peter goes to Cornelius)
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 11:15-18
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 10:44-48 (Peter goes to Cornelius)
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 11:15-18
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Your attempt to try and limit Joel's prophecy to some short period at the beginning of the age of grace, is lame to say the least...
'the sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.' Acts 2v20 with Matt 24v29-31, Rev 6v12-17...
There is only one 'great and awesome day of the Lord' mentioned in the Scriptures and that is the Day when the second Coming of Christ happens, when He appears in glory, so that every eye will see Him, when He comes to destroy not only the wicked but to take His people home...So you see the Baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit (including the gift of tongues) are indeed available right throughout the whole of the age of grace, right up until the 2nd Coming of Christ...
Do be a good girl and rightly divide the Word of Truth!
'the sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.' Acts 2v20 with Matt 24v29-31, Rev 6v12-17...
There is only one 'great and awesome day of the Lord' mentioned in the Scriptures and that is the Day when the second Coming of Christ happens, when He appears in glory, so that every eye will see Him, when He comes to destroy not only the wicked but to take His people home...So you see the Baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit (including the gift of tongues) are indeed available right throughout the whole of the age of grace, right up until the 2nd Coming of Christ...
Do be a good girl and rightly divide the Word of Truth!
.....
THE FORMER AND LATTER RAIN AND THE REIGN OF GRACE!
There is nothing in the context to give any Christian the Scriptural right to support the doctrine taught by some today, that the former rain, (Holy Spirit baptism), fell on the day of Pentecost, and the latter out-pouring of the Spirit is falling on the twentieth century Pentecostalists. The out-pouring of the Holy Spirit is prophesied in Joel 2:28 and 29, and it is true that water sometimes speaks of the Holy Spirit. (John 7:38 and 39). But Joel knew nothing of this present age, this present dispensation and reign of grace. So Joel prophesied nothing concerning the Body of Christ. (Colossians 1:24 to 28). So Joel 2:23 to 28 and Acts 2:16 to 22 in Israel’s Kingdom program must be studied in the light of the reign and dispensation of grace. (Ephesians 3:1 to 15 – Romans 5:21)
...
sort it out for me please.
include Latter Rain Theology.
i have some errands to do today but otherwise look forward to seeing you rightly divide the word of truth - start by the correct definition of what that means.
also, if you could expound on what pauls' dispensation of grace was, it'll help wrap this up quickly.
(not really, but i can hope).
thank you
a sign....the jews saw what? "God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life"
they miraculously spoke human languages they hadn't learned and spoke of the Wonderful Works of God - the Gospel.
magnifying God.
why on earth, why for any reason whatsoever would LOGOS the God of ORDER have people babbling in unknown sounds?
that would magnify Him how?
it's...mmm.....anyways.....
they miraculously spoke human languages they hadn't learned and spoke of the Wonderful Works of God - the Gospel.
magnifying God.
why on earth, why for any reason whatsoever would LOGOS the God of ORDER have people babbling in unknown sounds?
that would magnify Him how?
it's...mmm.....anyways.....
Zone
It is also uncanny you quote Gary Summers.
Because the truth of scripture is meant to devide whatever is not true to that which is.
The truth is an excluaionary word. Meaning that the truth eliminates all else that is not true. It stands alone. Nothing else can be uncluded.
So therefore..the truth should unite unless no one seeks to be united. Then disunity is by choice and not by seeking Christ as He said to seek Him.
It is also uncanny you quote Gary Summers.
Because the truth of scripture is meant to devide whatever is not true to that which is.
The truth is an excluaionary word. Meaning that the truth eliminates all else that is not true. It stands alone. Nothing else can be uncluded.
So therefore..the truth should unite unless no one seeks to be united. Then disunity is by choice and not by seeking Christ as He said to seek Him.
(3) Latter Rain Movement
One of the biggest influences on the counterfeit "river" movement of the Third Wave was the New Order of the Latter Rain.
BRIEF HISTORY
In the mid-1940's, the enthusiasm and fire of the Pentecostal revival that started at Azusa Street was waning, and people were looking for another move of the spirit, and wanted signs and wonders. (In) 1907-1910 David Wesley Myland began teaching the rudimentary concepts regarding the Latter Rain.....
The Third Wave New Apostolic Reformation < click
One of the biggest influences on the counterfeit "river" movement of the Third Wave was the New Order of the Latter Rain.
BRIEF HISTORY
In the mid-1940's, the enthusiasm and fire of the Pentecostal revival that started at Azusa Street was waning, and people were looking for another move of the spirit, and wanted signs and wonders. (In) 1907-1910 David Wesley Myland began teaching the rudimentary concepts regarding the Latter Rain.....
The Third Wave New Apostolic Reformation < click
There is a great distinction taught in the Word between those who already believe expecting (hoping) for miracles and believing they occur and the ones who sought a sign for our Savior to "prove" Who He is.
Those praying for tongues, the gift of healing or any other gift already believe. Now this is teaching from the Word.
If Pentecostles seek miraculous helps, this is only natural for any who believe Yahweh is loving and all capable.
I believe all from the Word, although I would never affiliate myself with any particular theology not being given the wisdom to select that correct one.
I do however fellowship with all who call on the only begotten Son of the Most High as their Savior for these are the members of His Body in this age.
Those praying for tongues, the gift of healing or any other gift already believe. Now this is teaching from the Word.
If Pentecostles seek miraculous helps, this is only natural for any who believe Yahweh is loving and all capable.
I believe all from the Word, although I would never affiliate myself with any particular theology not being given the wisdom to select that correct one.
I do however fellowship with all who call on the only begotten Son of the Most High as their Savior for these are the members of His Body in this age.
well, this issue just goes on and on.
it's still growing - but i would be very interested to know what the back door stats are.
......
Goodman concludes that "when all features of glossolalia were taken into consideration--that is, the segmental structure (such as sounds, syllables, phrases) and its suprasegmental elements (namely, rhythm, accent, and especially overall intonation)-- she concluded that there is no distinction in glossolalia between Christians and the followers of non-Christian (pagan) religions.
The "association between trance and glossolalia is now accepted by many researchers as a correct assumption," writes Goodman in the prestigious Encyclopedia of Religion (1987).
Goodman also concludes that glossolalia "is, actually, a learned behavior, learned either unawarely or, sometimes consciously." Others have previously pointed out that direct instruction is given on how to "speak in tongues," ie. how to engage in glossolalia.
Speaking in Tongues < click
when it comes right down to brass tacks - out comes the lack of love and unity card.
so, you're right in that sense, Messenger.
nothing new really.
repent and be forgiven is the always the Lord's message, isn't it?
it's still growing - but i would be very interested to know what the back door stats are.
......
Goodman concludes that "when all features of glossolalia were taken into consideration--that is, the segmental structure (such as sounds, syllables, phrases) and its suprasegmental elements (namely, rhythm, accent, and especially overall intonation)-- she concluded that there is no distinction in glossolalia between Christians and the followers of non-Christian (pagan) religions.
The "association between trance and glossolalia is now accepted by many researchers as a correct assumption," writes Goodman in the prestigious Encyclopedia of Religion (1987).
Goodman also concludes that glossolalia "is, actually, a learned behavior, learned either unawarely or, sometimes consciously." Others have previously pointed out that direct instruction is given on how to "speak in tongues," ie. how to engage in glossolalia.
Speaking in Tongues < click
when it comes right down to brass tacks - out comes the lack of love and unity card.
so, you're right in that sense, Messenger.
nothing new really.
repent and be forgiven is the always the Lord's message, isn't it?
A
When you speak in Tongues you edify yourselves as you speak mysteries unto God \Paul spoke in tongues more then anyone and His mind was unfruitful meaning He did not understand what He was saying while He prayed in the Spirit so therefore He prayed and Sung in the Spirit and when you edify your edifying yourself Spiritually and it will lead to the Great commission that's what all the Spiritual Gifts are to Help do and also they are for the unbeliever if it is the Gift of tongues in operation but if your praying in the Spirit your praying alone or if your in church either your following the leading of your Spiritual authority or your praying silently between you and God i hope this helped clear some issues up i don't like to see my Brothers and Sisters arguing we are all Family and we all need to Love each other
i hope this helped clear some issues up i don't like to see my Brothers and Sisters arguing we are all Family and we all need to Love each otheryou won't get names and contact info.
you don't get it when wanting proof people are raising people from the dead and walking on water either.
you get referred to the something-something-tribe in some-where-land.
someone heard someone say....just not content to read of the Wonderful Works of God recorded in the Wonderful Book of the Wonderful Acts of the Wonderful Apostles - together with Christ the Wonderful Cornerstone, the foundation of Our Wonderful Church.
nope....need some other foundation.
you don't get it when wanting proof people are raising people from the dead and walking on water either.
you get referred to the something-something-tribe in some-where-land.
someone heard someone say....just not content to read of the Wonderful Works of God recorded in the Wonderful Book of the Wonderful Acts of the Wonderful Apostles - together with Christ the Wonderful Cornerstone, the foundation of Our Wonderful Church.
nope....need some other foundation.
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