Catholic vs Protestant Debate.

[Abiding]

Wow... so you think you know what Mary would approve of?

"Nasty" is pretty much in the eye of the beholder and is often more a projection than objective evaluation.
(not always - but often)
Check Rachel's verbiage and compare to mine... phony made up "insult" vs obvious "arrogance" -- which qualifies as more 'nasty'?

You do understand Abiding, that you are free to step down from the peanut gallery and join the debate/discussion, at anytime...ok? (just checking)

I might come down after i put my shoes and smartypants on.
I manage the peanut gallery so i cant promise when

 

[Stephen63]

I might come down after i put my shoes and smartypants on.
I manage the peanut gallery so i cant promise when

What better one to do this than the one who is nuttier than a fruitcake......

 

[ChurchAuthority]

your exegesis is seriously flawed...the ark of the covenant was -not- an old testament type of mary...

instead the ark of the covenant is an old testament type of christ himself...just look at the evidence...

the ark is more or less symbolic of the presence of God among the israelites...
the ark is a physical container holding commandments received from God...the word of God in human flesh...
the ten commandments were never removed from the ark...
the ark went with the israelites in their travels on the way to the promised land...

none of this fits mary but it perfectly fits jesus...if there is any type of mary it would have be to be the tabernacle which contained the ark for a time...as mary carried jesus for a time...

also i will point out that God is not mary's spouse...-joseph- was mary's spouse...you basically just accused God of stealing a man's wife...which is pure blasphemy...

Nice try.

The Ark is a type of Mare AND Jesus. It is a polyvalent symbol, just as there are FOUR people in the Bible whio are called "Rock":
God the Father
God the Son
Abraham
Peter

From the passages I provided, Mary is a crystal CLEAR fulfillment of the Ark. Some of them are almost verbatim in their content from the OT to the NT - case in point:
a. "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
b. "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)


I know it's a huge concession to make to a Catholic but there is simply no getting around the fact that Mary is the fulfillment of the Ark.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

What does this have anything to do with Mary. Talk about taking out of context...

This entire passage is talking about the temple; which has nothing to do with Mary.

Again, twisting and bending - misplacing of verses to defend what cannot be defended.

The Temple??
REALLY??

The gate that the Lord God of Israel entered through?? WHICH gate in the Temple??
Every gate of the Temple was passed through by human beings.

This is NOT talking about the temple but of MARY.

Boy, talk about twisting the Scriptures . . .

 

[ChurchAuthority]

and there is of course absolutely no historical evidence for that...

REALLY??
There are OODLES of historical evidence.

Let's start with Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of John, the Apostle. He wrote 7 letters to 7 Church communitees on his way to be martyred in AD 107. Here is an excerpt from the Letter to the Smyrnaeans:

Ignatius of Antioch
The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

A few dacades later, Irenaeus wrote:
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).


Oops - almost forgot about Acts 9:31.
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”
According to Strong’s Greek Concordance and Lexicon – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας
The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.


Sorry to kick the chair out from underneath you but you're WRONG.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

Catholicism wouldn't be " hated," if it wasn't so messed up. I mean the church got corrupted by Sun god paganism years ago, directed the inquisition which slaughtered tons of people, little children are getting molested too commonly there, they set up idols of Mary and bow to her, they twist and distort Bible verses to produce the multitudes of " religious" doctrine to defend their interpretation of the Bible.

To top it off, they say they are the infalible church of God when throughout all of their history and their costumes, they have been blatantly full of fallacy.

I was even told by a Catholic, that the Bible isn't the full way to salvation; and then another on here actually, talks about Sola Scriptura which pretty much says that we can't follow the Bible fully because we can't understand it, so we have to rely on some religious leader like the Pope to do it for us.

The Pope bows down to an idol;

The last pope even confessed that xmas wasn't Christian and that he just follows them because it's a tradition.

Uh, Bible says NOT to follow the traditions of man...

This is really who we are to look to to interpret the scriptures? Some man praised and glorified like a king, living in golden palace, called Father?

Wow...

I don't mean to attack your church, but isn't it obvious that something is wrong there?

WRONG - as usual.

The Church is hated because Jesus Himself prophesied that it would be in John 15:18.
As an enemy of the Body of Christ, you're simply doing your job.

 

[gert]

I am a Catholic and I would like to have a one on one debate with any Protestant from any denomination, bring up anything on what you do not agree with on the Catholic church as in doctrine, tradition, the papacy, praying to saints etc. I will answer the best I can with love and charity.

God Bless

it would be more interesting to see a catholic vs protestant vs muslim debate as your all following the same god

 

[ChurchAuthority]

The 'Queen of Heaven'.
Look it up.
Total pagan and pantheistic garbage.
Mary wasn't the female form of God, she was a highly favored young woman.
Jesus was the only God made flesh.
God only had to send one savior, because He doesn't make mistakes. - (So He didn't have to send more than one)
Mary was fully human and not at all God. She provided the human side of Jesus' DNA.
The Holy Spirit provided the Holy (or God side) of His DNA.
Don't confuse the two. Jesus was all man and all God. Mary provided the man, the Holy Spirit provided the God.

I'm going to expose your falsehoods - just like I did on another thread:

Looks like you've been poisoned against the Church by the likes of Alexander Hislop, Jack Chick and Lorainne Boettner.

This nonsense about the Ishtar/Semiramis/Mary similarities started with a book by Alexander Hislop called "The Two Babylons". It became the anti-Catholic Bible for Catholic haters, including one named Ralph Woodrow. He wrote a follow-up book called, "Babylon Mystery Religion", based on Hislop's findings. HOWEVER, Woodrow did some actual RESEARCH on his own. I know that research is a foreign concept to most of you here but I applaud Woodrow for his efforts.

After his research, he stopped the printing of his book and wrote another one called "The Babylon Connection?" in which he retracted ALL of the statements he made against the Catholic Church. You can read all about it from Woodrow himself right here:
Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association

Although he is still a Protestant, he is no longer an ignorant anti-Catholic - which is more than I can say for most of you . . .

Maybe a little more homework and a little less beatring false witness against the Body of Christ might do you some good.

 

[Abiding]

you forgot the exclamation mark on ​WRONG.
That would have convinced me.

 

[Fenner]

I'm not going to defend either. I tried both. I don't follow church tradition anymore. I'm simply a member of the body of Christ. Scripture suffices. "For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)

Smart thinking! I'm a protestant and former Catholic. I don't have a problem with the Catholic religion or the protestant religion, or the I don't have a religion, religion. I think some people enjoy debating. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

Romans 3:21-23 [SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:11-12 [SUP]11 [/SUP]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Neither was Mary sinless before the crucifixion.

Have ALL people sinned?
How about infants?
How about the severly retarded who dont have full use of their faculties?
How about Jesus?
Sure, He is 100% God - but He is also 100% man. This is what is known as the Hypostatic Union, in case you don't know . . .

Do your homework before posting again.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

you forgot the exclamation mark on ​WRONG.
That would have convinced me.

I don't shout.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Nice try.

The Ark is a type of Mare AND Jesus. It is a polyvalent symbol, just as there are FOUR people in the Bible whio are called "Rock":
God the Father
God the Son
Abraham
Peter

From the passages I provided, Mary is a crystal CLEAR fulfillment of the Ark. Some of them are almost verbatim in their content from the OT to the NT - case in point:
a. "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
b. "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)


I know it's a huge concession to make to a Catholic but there is simply no getting around the fact that Mary is the fulfillment of the Ark.

you badly misquoted 2 samuel 6:9...here is what it -actually- says...i will quote from several -roman catholic- translations in order to avoid any accusation of 'protestant bias'...

douay-rheims bible..."And David was afraid of the Lord that day, saying: How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?"
new jerusalem bible..."That day David felt afraid of Yahweh. 'How can the ark of Yahweh come to be with me?' he said."
new american bible..."David became frightened of the LORD that day, and he said, "How can the ark of the LORD come to me?""
latin vulgate..."et extimuit David Dominum in die illa dicens quomodo ingredietur ad me arca Domini"

on biblegateway i got a similar result in every translation i checked...except for 'the message' which often paraphrases very loosely...and even then it didn't match your rendition of the verse...

a google search for exact matches with your rendition of the verse gave me only 963 hits...mostly all apparently from the same article copied over and over on multiple websites...

so your rendering of the verse is -not- a legitimate translation of the scripture...the -real- text of the verse is -not- the exact 'almost verbatim in content' match for luke 1:43 that you claimed it was...and your attempt to use it as a proof text for your doctrine is invalidated...

for someone who claims that their church respects the bible...you seem to have no problem with blatantly rewriting it...

the ark of the covenant is -not- an old testament type of mary...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

REALLY??
There are OODLES of historical evidence.

Let's start with Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of John, the Apostle. He wrote 7 letters to 7 Church communitees on his way to be martyred in AD 107. Here is an excerpt from the Letter to the Smyrnaeans:

Ignatius of Antioch
The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

A few dacades later, Irenaeus wrote:
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).


Oops - almost forgot about Acts 9:31.
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”
According to Strong’s Greek Concordance and Lexicon – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας
The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.


Sorry to kick the chair out from underneath you but you're WRONG.

neither ignatius nor irenaeus were talking about your church...in those days 'catholic' just meant 'universal' and didn't refer to the particular roman branch of christianity...

they were talking about -all- christians everywhere...not your denomination...which didn't exist yet...

the fact is that there is absolutely no historical evidence linking the universal or 'catholic' church of the apostolic age with your church today...

 

[livingepistle]

Just off the top of my head, I think it was 325AD.

You say, "If you believe that, there are three Gods equal in substance (automatons programmed by God)"

?! Where do people come up with this stuff?
Right out the starting gate the Creed says there is ONE God...

Three Gods... automatons... blah blah... c'mon, if you want to be taken seriously you might want to just try to pretend that you have a modicum of sanity and you can reply to the facts as presented.

Being incorrigible is not a fruit of the Spirit.

You haven't presented any facts. Based upon your comments throughout this thread; you are a real live spiritual Don Quixote type. Spiritually, "Tilting At Windmills"; you depict yourself as an impractical idealist bent on righting incorrigible wrongs concerning Scripture.

I do not believe that you neither read the Creed in detail nor studied the Trinity Shield and what this model represents; the "blah, blah, blah", stuff you refer to. There is nothing fruitful with this conversation. You are not the protagonist of this thread, it is SaintAnthony.

You just may want to research the definition of "automaton". It is being used in my post as a spiritual idiom just as Don Quixote is being used to depict your personality.

Let peace continue...

 

[livingepistle]

Just a thought...but has the gentleman who began this thread been back at all? <><

Good question.

 

[Stephen63]

Oh no...... they banned the Protestant bashers....... whatever will we do now? How can I post a couple of paragraphs without anybody to counteract it? What to do, what to do........

 

[zone]

Oh no...... they banned the Protestant bashers....... whatever will we do now? How can I post a couple of paragraphs without anybody to counteract it? What to do, what to do........

hi stephen
not sure it was protestant-bashing.
prolly false teachings.
but i could be wrong.
oh...wait - no, that's not possible.


post a couple paragraphs so we can check it.
lol.

 

[jusasheep]

Hi, The Holy Bible tells us to call no man Holy Father-jus he who is in Heaven. The wog also tells us Mary was married and had other children after giving birth to Christ. She did not remain a virgin. Also Mary is grieved so many of you worship her[hail] instead of the living son of Father God, Yeshua [Jesus]. He is our Saviour-Redeemer and Lord. It is he The Word Of God, who became flesh-lived his life without committing any sin-suffered-was rejected by the world-tortured-had a crown of thorns pushed down his scalp - was nailed to a wooden cross. Yeshua also fasted for 40 days and nights-resisting all temptation from Satan to eat when he was hungry. When he was preaching to the people-one of his deciples came to him and said Master your mother seeks you-Yeshua said to him stretching out his arms towards the people-who is my family if not these people-for anyone who receives me-receives my Father who sent me-indicating Father God is no respecter of persons. Yes, Mary was at that time-a vessel for Father God-out of the lineage of David. Yeshua will return and set up his kingdom in Jerusalem. However, The rapture of Gods people will happen first-The dead in Christ will rise first-then we the living will be caught up in the air to meet them-when the trumpet sounds we need to be ready-The precious Blood of Gods Lamb[Yeshua] his one time-all time sacrifice for washing away everyones sins-is the only way to eternal life with Father God. Please read King James Version-of the Bible. Also Jesus said you must be born again-that means being filled with the Holy Spirit- after you ask Jesus to forgive your sins.for has Yeshua said' I will not leave you comfortless-for I will send my Comforter[Holy Spirit-and he will be with you. Also read the book of acts:KJV, .

 

[jusasheep]

The WOG also tells us Yeshua is the only mediator between man and God. When Christ died on the cross-the veil covering the place where people went in to confess their sins to a priest-was rent into -meaning-they did not have to go there anymore-now there is a High Priest-Yeshua-for on the third day he rose-defeating death and hell. Yeshua now sits on the right hand of our Heavenly Father- all who are in Christ[the vine] are reconciled back to Father God-[we are the branches]. All our sins were paid in full-by the precious blood of his only begotten son. If we worship anything or anyone else-its an idol. Jesus is the way-the truth and the life. There is no other way. [You know when your sins are forgiven-he comes in-and gives you a joy-peace-and understanding you never had before-he also gives you Love-he is a real presence-who will never leave you