Originally Posted by
PeteWaldo
Of course not. Abraham had Ishmael with Sarah's handmaiden
Hagar - an Egyptian and Isaac with his
wife Sarah. Abraham disowned Ishmael, leaving the only son that God recognized being Isaac.
Of course the same father which if you know anything about genetics you know they will be far more in appearance to their "half-brothers" then they will be to a Native American,an African American,a Chinese,Laotian,Japanese or a Scandinavian. That is part of their genetic make up. And whether one likes it or not they ARE RELATED by genetics.
I showed you
how God sorts them out. That is all that matters. Children of the promise and children of the flesh. The children of the flesh whose side you have taken are just as prophesied:
Gen 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
And what about the rest I asked about?
Was their return to be as a religious group or was it as an ethnic group? If it's as an ethnic group then shouldn't they look more like the Arabs in that ABRAHAM was FATHER to both, and both should be Middle Eastern?
There are also black Jews from Africa that have been restored to Israel. Do you see how your raging bigotry has destroyed your capacity for critical thought?
The enemy has made it impossible for you to see Jews as other than as a monolithic group that can
all be assigned the same traits, and all be assigned the responsibility for things, as a uniform group.
The fact is that
all kinds of Jews have been restored to Israel.
There are atheist and agnostic Jews, there are faithful Torah Jews with a circumcision of the heart who worship my God YHWH through my Old Testament scriptures, and there are pharisical talmudic Jews who have deceived themselves into believing they are faithful while making the word of God of none effect just as they have since the first century.
Your insistence on putting all Jews into one monolithic group and falsely assigning uniform traits to all Jews as a whole makes you EXACTLY LIKE what your false perception of Jews is. You have deceived yourself into believing that a Christian can pass judgment on all Israeli Jews as one group, and that is why you find yourself fruiting the same tree as Nazis and skinheads who do the exact same thing.
Do you know who and what they honor on their postage stamps?
See how you proved it again? Are
ALL Israeli Jews responsible for whatever it is you are talking about? You are a raging racist bigot who now blames
all Israeli Jews for a stamp?
Yet the children of the flesh that you support - in their destruction of the Israeli democracy that protects Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims -
must necessarily reject Jesus' crucifixion and thus His shed blood, and deny the Son of God as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad,
because they are articles of their faith.
See how you proved your bigotry again? If
THEY who? The
agnostic Jews, the Torah Jews or the pharisical Jews? You are a racist bigot. All Israeli Jews cannot be described as having the same traits or beliefs or heart condition.
truly are following Moses and the Torah,shouldn't they have more stamps being issued for that then the Talmud and those type of Rabbis?
See how the enemy has broken your mind with hatred and bigotry?
In this case the "THEY" would be all the people that are directly responsible for production of whatever it is that you are talking about (a postage stamp apparently). Period.
And why should we expect that faithful Torah Jews with a circumcision of the heart would be anything other than a small remnant, just as regenerate Christians are a small remnant throughout the world?
i
Or will it be shown that they honor the Talmud and the Rabbis more?
THEY THEY THEY. It is the hallmark of Godless blind racist bigots to lump people by race and ethnicity into monolithic groups, and then assign uniform characteristics and beliefs to them. Exactly like you and Zone do.
They - agnostic Jews don't honor anything, Torah Jews worship and honor YHWH, and Talmudic Jews have only deceived themselves into believing they do.
I know the answer do you?
Yes I do. There is every kind of Jew imaginable in Israel. Is that your answer too?
I know who they honor and it's not hidden. They don't make a secret of it. Half an effort will show you the truth of who they honor.
Which
THEY? Agnostic Jews, Torah Jews or Talmud Jews? Can't even you see what a bigot you are?
How anyone calling themselves Christian can ignore it when Jesus is looked at as being cursed, .......
I wouldn't ignore it but rather pray for such any person capable of cursing Jesus, that they find Him. And as the scripture informs us no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed, so the type of Jew that you describe here would be an atheistic, agnostic or
pharisaical talmudic type Jew - which is exactly the same type of self-proclaimed Jew that you are type of self-proclaimed Christian. His capacity to discern the difference between a Gentile with a circumcision of the heart and one without, is exactly the same as your racism and bigotry that causes you to assign a uniform condition of the heart to all Jews. You are he. Two peas in a pod. Just the same.
...... a wizard,etc etc and go fully along with it,doesn't that show who one really allies themselves with?
I'm allied
WITH GOD and His having restored His people to our land, for the sake of His holy name.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake........[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I will sanctify my great name..........[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD.......[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.[/FONT]
That's all I need to know. That's what puts me on God's side. On the side of tens of millions of Christians that support the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State.
The converse of the side that you find yourself on which is the side of:
Israeli Muslims
Jeremiah Wright and his flock (
even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (
who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made
in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread,
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us
a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults
Does one really believe that God will say that is OK to have partnership with darkness?
Recognizing God restored His people to their land for the sake of His holy name is not the side of darkness as should be painfully obvious to you when you look at the list of folks that you are in partnership with.
We as Christians are NOT to ally ourselves with ANY form of darkness. It does NOT matter where the darkness is coming from. Do we not understand that from all the warnings God gave Israel? They didn't listen and what happened? Sorry I can not ally myself to ANYONE that spits on the Lord. (Jesus didn't either)
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Where did I say they weren't?
Originally Posted by
PeteWaldo
As I've already pointed out, the scriptures help us discern a Jew with a circumcision of the heart, from one without (though to a
Roman Church styled punitive supersessionist they must necessarily all be the same):
1Cr 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
However regarding who you "ally" yourself with it is indeed instructive to note just who is allied with whom, between those that recognize the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord, and those who reject that the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord.
The Return of Jews to Israel
And that is what is at the heart of the matter,are those that are leading Israel,are they calling Jesus accursed or are they calling Him Lord?
Your doctrine induce racism and bigotry has removed your capacity to read and understand scripture. There are obviously two groups listed. Those of the Spirit of God are faithful Torah Jews from whose eyes the Lord may not have yet lifted the "spirit of slumber". Any Jew that believes himself to be a Torah Jew, but is capable of calling Jesus accursed, has only deceived himself into believing he is a faithful Jew. However they cannot call Jesus Lord because they are not of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God sent in Jesus name.
Any man that could call Jesus accursed, is not of the Spirit of God (which you through your bigotry assign to all Jews, and in fact I have never met a Jew that would)
.
If they are calling Him accursed then whom have you allied yourself with?
I have allied myself
WITH GOD, who restored His people to their land for the sake of His holy name.
I have allied myself with great men of God who recognized that Jews would be restored to their land through prophecy, from centuries before that restoration ever began to take place.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."
Isaac Newton: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Thomas Brightman (1562-1607): "The restoring of the Jewes and their callinge to the faith of Christ after the utter overthrow of their three enemies is set forth in livelie colours." "Shall they return to Jerusalem again?" "There is nothing more certain: the prophets do everywhere confirm it and beat upon it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
John Owen 1616-1683: "The Jews shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered, and brought home into their homeland."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1641 Oliver Cromwell stated, "And it may be, as some think, God will bring the Jews home to their station, 'from all the isles of the sea,' and answer their expectations 'as from the depths of the sea.' [/FONT]
While you have allied yourself with:
A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]
Are they calling Jesus Lord? Answer those questions and you have the answer.
All I have to do is look at the fruit to be comfortable with supporting the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State that protects and preserves the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth).
I have no question about that myself either,but I for sure want to be 100 % sure that I know whom I'm following.
Your fellow fruit in your anti-Zionist tree should offer you more than a clue but your insistance on racism and bigotry against Jews will likely continue to prevent you from seeing it, just as it did in my last post.
See I believed that everything was as it appeared on the surface.
I believe scripture.
But I have had way to many people lie to me for me to take things at face value anymore.
It would be dumb and unchristian to take such things at face value in the first place.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
I want to know the truth,not what we have been told for so long. Not everything in this life is at it appears on the surface.
Your interest, conclustions, and bigotry against Jews, spring from the punitive supersessionism of your doctrine, not truth.