Is America a Christian Nation?

[doulos]

pete DIDN'T mention Islam?
serious?

No his post wasn’t about islam or muslims. I quoted it again (for your convenience) so you can reread it and see for yourself.

The U.S. has been a Godless nation ever since it divorced itself from God in 1947 through the Everson decision, and creation of the spurious notion of a "separation of church and state". Indeed how can there be a separation from God when we recognize that we receive all of our rights from our Creator, whom our predominantly Christian forefathers recognized as having revealed Himself through the scriptures. Indeed so well grounded was our country in God that this spurious notion had only been brought before the court on 2 occasions in the prior 150 years. The fruit is easily observed for having done so with fatherless households, an expanding Marxist welfare nanny state and military misadventures ever since.

As another poster pointed out, the establishment clause was intended to preclude the Federal government from establishing a State church at the Federal level, like the church of England. Indeed individual states were at complete liberty to establish state churches and several did, before recognizing their own error, and abolishing them.

The only books required in our early schools were a bible and hymnal.

A great read on the subject is "Original Intent" by David Barton which includes only original source material.

Oh well guess it doesn’t matter what he says, any excuse to derail a thread and harass those you disagree with will do. Right?

Love ya sis, but like I said, I do feel sorry for you and will keep you in my prayers.

 

[doulos]

Below is a list of quotes from some of the most influential men in the formation of the United States of America. The reason for this list is to point out the large oversight on the part of many Americans when they buy into the idea that the country's founders established a "seperation of Church and State". If that had indeed been their intention it stood in stark contrast to their beliefs on government and specifically how the U.S.A. should be ran. Whether citizens of the US are willing to admit it or not they owe a debt of gratitude to Christianity for the freedoms they so often claim to be defending when they bash Christianity.

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
" The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

"[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty."
John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]

Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams
"He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all"Our forefathers opened the Bible to all." [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

" Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system." [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
"Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" "Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

"The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code."
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
" Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits."

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
" God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel" "Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

"In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?" [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:
"The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States."

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, "I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me."

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."

John Hancock:
"In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness Resolved; Thursday the 11th of May to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation and a Blessing on the Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation for the redress of America's many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.

"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."

" This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed."
"The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

"It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed."
John Jay:

" Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

"Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson." [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

Thomas Jefferson:
" The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man."

"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus."

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Samuel Johnston:

"It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot's Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]

James Madison
" We've staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart."

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We've staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)

" An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia" Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

"It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other."

"A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven."
[Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]


(to be continued)

 

[doulos]

(continuing)
James McHenry - Signer of the Constitution
Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.

Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."

The following is especially relevant for the removing of religious activities in schools

Thomas Paine:
" It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."


" The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal." "The Existence of God--1810"

Benjamin Rush:
"I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them-we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism." "By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds." [Letter written (1790's) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]


"Christianity is the only true and perfect religion."
"If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary."

"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education"

Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787

Justice Joseph Story:
" I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations."
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

" Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit." [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]

" At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship."
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

Noah Webster:
" The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men."

"In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]

Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]

"All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]

"The Bible was America's basic textbook
in all fields." [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]

"Education is useless without the Bible" [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5 ]

George Washington:
Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."

" It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible."

"What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ." [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]

"Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors". [1797 letter to John Adams]

It does appear that the founding fathers of this country intended for it to be a Christian nation, unfortunately it doesn't appear that it stayed that way!

 

[zone]

so doulos;
how did it all go off the rails.
that's what i'm wondering.
did you have that sorted out yet?
or no.

i could help.
lemme know.
okay

 

[TosinAsLeader]

No. If you mean a nation who citizens were mostly hypocritical, than yes we are still a Christian nation. I think we will be a communist country in no time though.

 

[doulos]

so doulos;
how did it all go off the rails.
that's what i'm wondering.
did you have that sorted out yet?
or no.

i could help.
lemme know.
okay

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

In another thread I pointed out that all that the anti-scriptural term "Palestinian" (that was coined by a satanically led 2nd century Roman ruler) accomplishes is to obscure the true identities of the residents of Israel.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61358-israel-palestine.html

Thus Israeli residents break down as follows:

The majority of those in the following Israeli groups are pro-Zionism:

Israeli Christians
Israeli non-Muslim and secular Arabs
Israeli Messianic Jews
Israeli Torah Jews
Israeli secular Jews

The majority of those in the following Israeli group are anti-Zionism:

Israeli Muslims


Now let's take a look at how non-Israeli groups composed of folks who weren't born in Israel, and/or don't have to or want to live in Israel, break down.

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are pro-Zionism:

Tens of millions of denominational and non-denominational Evangelical Christians, including a near unanimity of futurists, like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye
The Christadelphian cult

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are anti-Zionism:

Jeremiah Wright and his flock (even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread)
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).


Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are pro-Zionism:

These groups might be hard to categorize. For example I have chatted with at least one English atheist that understands what is going on, from having investigated Islam after Muslims took over his neighborhood, who does not want his heirs to be subjugated to prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca and praying in the vain repetitions of the heathen five times a day.
We can perhaps suffice it to say that any group in favor of the continuation of freedom, liberty and right to self-determination and self-rule provided by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, to the benefit of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth), would fit here.

Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are anti-Zionism:

A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults

Hmmm Don’t see any good fuit on that antizionist tree!

Sorry Zone I am not interested in going to the dark side!

 

[MrsAsghar]

Amen! Well said and thank you so much for sharing these with us doulos.

I will never understand where those that try to tell me our founding fathers were NOT Christian found or got their ideas, I will never know. Everything I have ever read or seen on the subject clearly states that they were Christian and their goal was to live as a Christian nation.

And something else I have noticed, seems a lot of people don't understand, that religion and Christianity are two different things. Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. Many people get that confused and don't understand.

But I am so thankful to have met you and a couple others that believe and have understood these things as I have. And I have enjoyed the posts.

It was nice to talk on a subject such as this without all the harsh words that usually happens when it comes to this type of subject. I understand we all have a difference of opinions, and I wouldn't mind hearing others views and opinions if they just did it tactfully and with sensitivity. We can agree to disagree and still do so in Christian love and without hurting someones feelings or putting another down. So this thread has been a joy to be a part of and I am so glad everyone for the most part has been kind and stated their thoughts without pointing fingers or belittling another. Awesome job everyone.

God bless all and take care

 

[Nautilus]

Actually they were mostly deists. A little research shows this. If we were meant to be a christian nation then they would have just made us a theocracy. Which they purposefully avoided...gee I wonder why?

 

[doulos]

Amen! Well said and thank you so much for sharing these with us doulos.

Thank you but the credit goes to a friend who posted this in another forum quite some time ago and was gracious enough to allow me to keep a copy and repost it in other forums if I wanted.

And something else I have noticed, seems a lot of people don't understand, that religion and Christianity are two different things. Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. Many people get that confused and don't understand.

AMEN< AMEN< AMEN!!!!!

But I am so thankful to have met you and a couple others that believe and have understood these things as I have. And I have enjoyed the posts.

It was nice talking to you too! Be blessed friend and have a great day!

 

[Nautilus]

Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a RELATIONSHIP with Christ.

Religion-a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe(The Creation stories), especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies(God), usually involving devotional and ritual observances(Christmas, Easter, Palm Sunday, Pentecost), and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs(Ten Commandments, Following Jesus).

No Christianity may be based on a relationship with Christ, but it is also 100% a religion.

 

[MrsAsghar]

[/B] No Christianity may be based on a relationship with Christ, but it is also 100% a religion.

Thanks for your opinion and thoughts, but this is as I believe and what I was taught. As I said, we all have the right to agree to disagree, and we both have different thoughts on the matter and disagree 100% with one another. And that is ok that we don't agree

God bless and have a good day!

 

[MrsAsghar]

It was nice talking to you too! Be blessed friend and have a great day!

Thanks, you also be blessed my friend and brother. Continue to stand strong in Christ and have a great day also!

 

[zone]

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.



Hmmm Don’t see any good fuit on that antizionist tree!

Sorry Zone I am not interested in going to the dark side!

View attachment 47256

you quote an Amateur Propagandist?

roger that.

you're already on the dark side bud.
that idol can't help you on the last day.

carry on though.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[RickyZ]

No. If you mean a nation who citizens were mostly hypocritical, than yes we are still a Christian nation. I think we will be a communist country in no time though.

Now there's a curious question; could the coming one world government be seen as being communist?

 

[PeteWaldo]

Actually they were mostly deists.

Parroting lies may make them become more popular, as you well demonstrate, but it will never make them become more true.

"Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies."
http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/49787-america-christian-nation-3.html#post1011679

A little research shows this.

Then perhaps you should have engaged in a little more than a little research.

If we were meant to be a christian nation then they would have just made us a theocracy. Which they purposefully avoided...gee I wonder why?

Because a theocracy is what they were escaping. That doesn't change the fact that even at the federal level they recognized that all of our rights come from our Creator, who is revealed through the scriptures. However individual states were free to set up state churches, and several did, before they recognized their own error and abolished them. The bible and hymnal were the only required books in our early schools.
Haven't you been reading the posts in this thread? I recommend you go out and get a copy of "Original Intent" before you embarrass yourself further by parroting lies.

 

[PeteWaldo]

I can't see how you can have a Christian country. Turning the other cheek on your enemies only works at an individual level. A leader cannot apply it and expect his country not to be invaded.

It is a good point when we consider what happened to formerly Christian lands:



It would seem apparent what Jesus Christ's place of return would look like today, if Christians had been in control of Israel and Jerusalem, if the rest of the formerly Christian lands are any indication.



Kinda makes me wonder if God didn't restore Jews to their land, even while in unbelief of the Gospel, for more reasons than just for the sake of His Holy name (which is certainly enough reason for me - a fulfilment of prophecy so stunning that even "the heathen" shall know He is Lord.).
Zionism

 

[PeteWaldo]

[TABLE="class: resources"]
[TR]
[TD="class: MainHeaders sIFR-replaced, colspan: 1"] WallBuilders - Historical Writings - The Founders As Christians

The Founders As Christians
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: bold"] 04/2006 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [SIZE=-1](Note: this is a representative list only, there are many other quotes that could be listed)[/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]

Samuel Adams
Father of the American Revolution, Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I . . . recommend my Soul to that Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Samuel Adams[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Charles Carroll
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts.
​

[SIZE=-2]From an autographed letter in our possession written by Charles Carroll to Charles W. Wharton, Esq., on September 27, 1825, from Doughoragen, Maryland.[/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]

William Cushing
First Associate Justice Appointed by George Washington to the Supreme Court​

Sensible of my mortality, but being of sound mind, after recommending my soul to Almighty God through the merits of my Redeemer and my body to the earth . . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of William Cushing[/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]

John Dickinson
Signer of the Constitution​

Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of John Dickinson[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

John Hancock
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I John Hancock, . . . being advanced in years and being of perfect mind and memory-thanks be given to God-therefore calling to mind the mortality of my body and knowing it is appointed for all men once to die [Hebrews 9:27], do make and ordain this my last will and testament…Principally and first of all, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of God that gave it: and my body I recommend to the earth . . . nothing doubting but at the general resurrection I shall receive the same again by the mercy and power of God. . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of John Hancock[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Patrick Henry
Governor of Virginia, Patriot ​

This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Patrick Henry[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

John Jay
First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court​

Unto Him who is the author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved son. He has been pleased to bless me with excellent parents, with a virtuous wife, and with worthy children. His protection has companied me through many eventful years, faithfully employed in the service of my country; His providence has not only conducted me to this tranquil situation but also given me abundant reason to be contented and thankful. Blessed be His holy name!
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of John Jay[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Daniel St. Thomas Jenifer
Signer of the Constitution​

In the name of God, Amen. I, Daniel of Saint Thomas Jenifer . . . of dispossing mind and memory, commend my soul to my blessed Redeemer. . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Daniel St. Thomas Jenifer[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Henry Knox
Revolutionary War General, Secretary of War​

First, I think it proper to express my unshaken opinion of the immortality of my soul or mind; and to dedicate and devote the same to the supreme head of the Universe – to that great and tremendous Jehovah, – Who created the universal frame of nature, worlds, and systems in number infinite . . . To this awfully sublime Being do I resign my spirit with unlimited confidence of His mercy and protection . . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Henry Knox[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

John Langdon
Signer of the Constitution​

In the name of God, Amen. I, John Langdon, . . . considering the uncertainty of life and that it is appointed unto all men once to die [Hebrews 9:27], do make, ordain and publish this my last will and testament in manner following, that is to say-First: I commend my soul to the infinite mercies of God in Christ Jesus, the beloved Son of the Father, who died and rose again that He might be the Lord of the dead and of the living . . . professing to believe and hope in the joyful Scripture doctrine of a resurrection to eternal life . . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of John Langdon[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

John Morton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

With an awful reverence to the great Almighty God, Creator of all mankind, I, John Morton . . . being sick and weak in body but of sound mind and memory-thanks be given to Almighty God for the same, for all His mercies and favors-and considering the certainty of death and the uncertainty of the times thereof, do, for the settling of such temporal estate as it hath pleased God to bless me with in this life . . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of John Morton[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Robert Treat Paine
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I desire to bless and praise the name of God most high for appointing me my birth in a land of Gospel Light where the glorious tidings of a Savior and of pardon and salvation through Him have been continually sounding in mine ears.
​

[SIZE=-2]Robert Treat Paine, The Papers of Robert Treat Paine, Stephen Riley and Edward Hanson, editors (Boston: Massachusetts Historical Society, 1992), Vol. I, p. 48, March/April, 1749.[/SIZE]

[W]hen I consider that this instrument contemplates my departure from this life and all earthly enjoyments and my entrance on another state of existence, I am constrained to express my adoration of the Supreme Being, the Author of my existence, in full belief of his providential goodness and his forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state, acknowledging with grateful remembrance the happiness I have enjoyed in my passage through a long life. . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Robert Treat Paine[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Signer of the Constitution​

To the eternal, immutable, and only true God be all honor and glory, now and forever, Amen!. . .
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Rufus Putnam
Revolutionary War General, First Surveyor General of the United States​

[F]irst, I give my soul to a holy, sovereign God Who gave it in humble hope of a blessed immortality through the atonement and righteousness of Jesus Christ and the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit. My body I commit to the earth to be buried in a decent Christian manner. I fully believe that this body shall, by the mighty power of God, be raised to life at the last day; 'for this corruptable (sic) must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.' [I Corinthians 15:53]
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Rufus Putnam[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Benjamin Rush
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

My only hope of salvation is in the infinite, transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!
​

[SIZE=-2]Benjamin Rush, The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, George Corner, editor (Princeton: Princeton University Press for the American Philosophical Society, 1948), p. 166, Travels Through Life, An Account of Sundry Incidents & Events in the Life of Benjamin Rush.[/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]

Roger Sherman
Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Constitution​

I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. . . . that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are a revelation from God. . . . that God did send His own Son to become man, die in the room and stead of sinners, and thus to lay a foundation for the offer of pardon and salvation to all mankind so as all may be saved who are willing to accept the Gospel offer.
​

[SIZE=-2]Lewis Henry Boutell, The Life of Roger Sherman (Chicago: A. C. McClurg and Company, 1896), pp. 272-273.[/SIZE]
[HR][/HR]

Richard Stockton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I think it proper here not only to subscribe to the entire belief of the great and leading doctrines of the Christian religion, such as the Being of God, the universal defection and depravity of human nature, the divinity of the person and the completeness of the redemption purchased by the blessed Savior, the necessity of the operations of the Divine Spirit, of Divine Faith, accompanied with an habitual virtuous life, and the universality of the divine Providence, but also . . . that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness that can be enjoyed in this mortal state; that all occasions of vice and immorality is injurious either immediately or consequentially, even in this life; that as Almighty God hath not been pleased in the Holy Scriptures to prescribe any precise mode in which He is to be publicly worshiped, all contention about it generally arises from want of knowledge or want of virtue.
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Richard Stockton[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

Jonathan Trumbull Sr.
Governor of Connecticut, Patriot ​

Principally and first of all, I bequeath my soul to God the Creator and Giver thereof, and body to the Earth . . . nothing doubting but that I shall receive the same again at the General Resurrection thro the power of Almighty God; believing and hoping for eternal life thro the merits of my dear, exalted Redeemer Jesus Christ.
​

[SIZE=-2]Will of Jonathan Trumbull[/SIZE] [HR][/HR]

John Witherspoon
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I entreat you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other [Acts 4:12]. . . . f you are not reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, if you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish.
​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[PeteWaldo]

Now there's a curious question; could the coming one world government be seen as being communist?

I think that may have been a popular view in the 70s perhaps even with Russia as the beast. But the reality is somewhat different than that. Here's how Darby's "Revived Roman Empire" is fairing today:

"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."

"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."
Falling Away or Apostasy

 

[Nautilus]

you've read the treaty of tripoli right? As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...man written and ratified by some of the same people who did the constitution, now why would they say that unless...

 

[nw2u]

Would anyone who is Christian really want the U.S. to be a Christian country? Which denomination would be the only one allowed? What form of worship would be the "correct" form? How would you banish all other forms of worship? Who would volunteer to break into suspected worship services to expose and collar these "criminals"? What punishment would you suggest for these nonconformists? How much time and money do you think would be spent concerning seeking out these "criminals" and bringing them to "justice"? I just provided this for thought not to hijack the thread.

I do think LC02 is right. The founding fathers came from a system of government that had a leader who used religious doctrine against them. They wanted freedom from this tyranny rather than the same thing with a twist. They were looking at the problem from the top down, not the bottom up.