Flat earth debunked.

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MrE

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Jan 26, 2023
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In history we see many examples where religion and science merge and unite for a common purpose which at times was entirely self-serving. The universities and colleges were first and foremost religious institutions at their beginnings and to study science was part and parcel of theological discussion- the nature of God and the world He created.

Then science disavowed God somewhere along the way, decreeing religion to be about beliefs, while science deals only in facts. Today, this divergence has flipped on its head to the degree that what we used to call science now looks to be a lot more like the religion of times passed— based on beliefs and not facts at all, but upon whatever set of facts these new priests of science choose to promote. It’s simply a religion of a different kind.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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There is an old saying from my days in college. When one is fixated on a completely false idea, it is impossible to argue with invincible ignorance. Let him believe in himself and move on.

I'm moving on.
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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There is an old saying from my days in college. When one is fixated on a completely false idea, it is impossible to argue with invincible ignorance. Let him believe in himself and move on.

I'm moving on.
Great!

That’s what bullies generally do when they get punched in the mouth. They just aren’t used to getting punched in the mouth.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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I made it *really* simple. Not so much for you, because I think you are shilling for ball-Earth, rather than genuinely trying to understand. But for anyone honest that reads your posts and for whatever reason believes you might be right.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-range-of-an-average-marine-radar-on-US-Navy-ships?share=1

"Almost every one of the 50+ US Navy ships I sailed on had an installed “average marine radar” from a manufacturer like Raytheon or Furuno. These tend to be “fishing boat” radars with ranges of 25 to 75 nm, depending on how high above the sea surface they were installed."

Note that 25 nautical miles (the lower estimate given) is approximately 46km.




View attachment 248033

● Let A, B and E represent 3 ships, of height H1, H2, H3, on a ball-Earth of circumference C and radius r.
● Let ships A and B be located on the ball-Earth at such a distance that a straight line between the highest point on A and the highest point on B is tangent with ball-Earth. [This sets ship B at the maximum possible detectable distance, by straight line, from A].
● Let T represent the point where the tangent line AB intersects the ball-Earth.
● Let O represent the center of ball-Earth.
● Let ϴ1 represent the angle between OA and OT.
● Let ϴ2 represent the angle between OT and OB.
● Let ϴT represent the sum of the angles ϴ1 and ϴ2.
● Let D represent the distance of the arc along the circumference of ball-Earth, between the ships A and B.

Also, let:
● H1 = 10m
● H2 = 10m
● C = 40,075,017m
● r = 6,378,000m

Then:

● From basic trigonometry, we know that cos(ϴ) = Adjacent/Hypotenuse

cos (ϴ1) = r / (r + H1)
cos (ϴ1) = 0.999998432112838
cos (ϴ2) = r / (r + H2)
cos (ϴ2) = 0.999998432112838

ϴ1 = acos(0.999998432112838)
ϴ1 = 0.00177081200133473 radians
ϴ2 = acos(0.999998432112838)
ϴ2 = 0.00177081200133473 radians

● We also know that 360º = 2π radians

ϴ1 = 0.001770812 * 360 / (2.π)
ϴ1 = 0.101460053987595º
ϴ2 = 0.001770812 * 360 / (2.π)
ϴ2 = 0.101460053987595º

ϴT = ϴ1 + ϴ2
ϴT = 0.10146º + 0.10146º
ϴT = 0.20292º

● There are 360º in a circle.

D = ϴT / 360 * C
D = 0.20292º / 360º * 40,075,017m
D = 22588.951249m
D = 22.59km

● Therefore, if we lived on a ball-Earth of circumference C = 40,075km, the maximum range that a straight‑beam radar mounted 10m above sea-level could detect a 10m-high ship, is 22.59km.
● In reality, radar can detect ships at much greater distances than this (e.g. easily at 50km).
● The trigonometric diagram of ball-Earth, together with radar ranges which greatly exceed the maximum range predicted by the ball-Earth model, therefore demonstrate that we do not live on a ball‑Earth at all, as some would have us imagine.
I don't need to "shill" for a ball earth. It is a globe. There is a vast amount of evidence for a ball earth and none for a flat earth. I repeat, not one shred of evidence that the earth is flat. When you show me a radar that can detect objects thousands of miles away, I'll reconsider.

 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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There is an old saying from my days in college. When one is fixated on a completely false idea, it is impossible to argue with invincible ignorance. Let him believe in himself and move on.

I'm moving on.
good advice.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
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I guessed right! What you call ionosphere, is what concave hollow earthers call, glass sky. Tomato/Tamata. I heard a story about radio signals being picked up in other countries in Europe, and that's why some people believed in the glass sky way back when. youtube stuff

Good luck changing a flat earther's mind! lol


The ionosphere can re-radiate electromagnetic waves. This property is used by over the horizon radars. It has nothing to do with glass. It is possible to detect high frequency radio transmissions by the same ionospheric re-radiation. You need a decent HF receiver for reliable reception.

FE people? None so blind...................


Can you please explain this further, since I honestly don't understand. If the ionosphere is not solid glass/ice, than how do radio waves bounce off a non-solid surface?

Thanks for explaining, if you do answer my question.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
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Keep the videos coming, Concave Hollow Earth is looking rock solid!

Once my experiment is done and it checks out like these videos, and the survey done 200 years ago by the U.S. Government in Florida, I will officially state, flat earth, and convex earth has been proven false. Tick tock!

So.....excited!

By the way, those guys using lasers like that, are completely irresponsible. They should be arrested, but that's just my opinion.
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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Keep the videos coming, Concave Hollow Earth is looking rock solid!

Once my experiment is done and it checks out like these videos, and the survey done 200 years ago by the U.S. Government in Florida, I will officially state, flat earth, and convex earth has been proven false. Tick tock!

So.....excited!

By the way, those guys using lasers like that, are completely irresponsible. They should be arrested, but that's just my opinion.

Here you go.... let me help you. Grab yourself one of these. Then you won't have to worry about those dangerous, irresponsible lasers.

https://www.eurooptic.com/vectronix-vector-23-mpn-906098.aspx
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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https://soundcloud.com/sonicrevelation%2Fin-the-firmament

Let There Be Lights
To Separate Day From Night
Hanging Above the Clouds

When you See
The Total Masterpiece
There Will Be No Doubt

In the Firmament
Celestial Tapestry
In the Firmament
Declare Your Majesty
In the Firmament
The Footstool of Your Throne
We Are Not Alone

Your Pillars are Firm
Fixed & Immovable
Spherical or Round

Circle of Earth
Suspended on Nothing
You Scattered the Stars Out

*Psalm 19:1*
The Heavens Declare the Glory of God
The Skies Proclaim the Work of his Hand

Life Under the Dome
We are Not Alone
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
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There is an old saying from my days in college. When one is fixated on a completely false idea, it is impossible to argue with invincible ignorance. Let him believe in himself and move on.

I'm moving on.
The fact that you’re here talking sense to flat earthers is entertaining onto itself.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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Can you please explain this further, since I honestly don't understand. If the ionosphere is not solid glass/ice, than how do radio waves bounce off a non-solid surface?

Thanks for explaining, if you do answer my question.
Happy to help. I'm rusty on this, so it won't be overly comprehensive.

The ionosphere, as the name suggests, is the region where solar radiation (UV and X-ray)ionises the upper regions of the atmosphere. This enables radio waves to re-radiate from the layer and so allows the lower frequencies to bounce off the ionosphere. That's the simple answer.

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/phenomena/ionosphere

If you look at the diagram, you will see that if the frequency is high enough, it will pass through the ionosphere. This is why super high frequency radars have short range. They cannot bounce off the ionosphere. They are not able to follow the curvature of the earth. The higher frequencies are required to give enough definition to a target to track it. Low frequency radars have much longer ranges but are unable to provide enough data to allow a lock on the target. Stealth aircraft are not invisible to all radar frequencies. They are near invisible to radars that are suitable to guide missiles to a target. Modern missiles have built in seekers, radar and/or Infra red, to overcome the limitations of long range radar. Once the missile is near enough, the inbuilt seekers take over and the target has to defend itself. Easier said than done.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
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Happy to help. I'm rusty on this, so it won't be overly comprehensive.

The ionosphere, as the name suggests, is the region where solar radiation (UV and X-ray)ionises the upper regions of the atmosphere. This enables radio waves to re-radiate from the layer and so allows the lower frequencies to bounce off the ionosphere. That's the simple answer.

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/phenomena/ionosphere

If you look at the diagram, you will see that if the frequency is high enough, it will pass through the ionosphere. This is why super high frequency radars have short range. They cannot bounce off the ionosphere. They are not able to follow the curvature of the earth. The higher frequencies are required to give enough definition to a target to track it. Low frequency radars have much longer ranges but are unable to provide enough data to allow a lock on the target. Stealth aircraft are not invisible to all radar frequencies. They are near invisible to radars that are suitable to guide missiles to a target. Modern missiles have built in seekers, radar and/or Infra red, to overcome the limitations of long range radar. Once the missile is near enough, the inbuilt seekers take over and the target has to defend itself. Easier said than done.
I guess I'm dumb, I still don't understand. lol Can you work with me? I want to understand your view here.

Um. Yeah, so radio waves bounce off of an ionizes atmosphere?!?! I get that bit, but what gets ionized?

Can you please explain this atmosphere? Is it made out of Jello? Air? Ether? What? I'm gonna need some information, because ionizing atmosphere doesn't really answer my question. Forget the ionizing bit, what is this atmosphere you speak of? Please go into depth on this atmosphere that gets ionized.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
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I figure a google search can answer this question.

"The Earth's ionosphere is mainly composed of N2, O2, O, H, He, and Ar [2]; however, the ionosphere is a cold plasma, i.e. a quasi-neutral mix of electrons, ions, and neutral gas molecules; the ionized species present in the ionosphere are generated by solar radiation..."

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1361-6463/ac520a

N2 is Nitrogen
O2 is Oxygen
O is Oxygen
H is Hydrogen
He is Helium
Ar is Argon

What is plasma?

"A plasma is an electrically charged gas."

https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zon...lectrically,by electrical and magnetic fields.

So, basically the ionsphere is gas, that is electrically charged, by solar radiation?!?! Yes? No?

You can have your gassy sphere, my glassy sphere can at least contain the gas.




Without the glass, there is no containment. I'm guessing heliocentric believers will be leaning on gravity to contain gas, but Helium defies gravity. Correct me if I'm wrong on your gas containment belief.

There is no point really to argue, which sphere is better, it's gonna be hard to reach that region of space, so it's really a shouting match.

Even the plasma ball has glass, so I'm not sure how your belief is better in any way, but at least I understand your view.

 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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Happy to help. I'm rusty on this, so it won't be overly comprehensive.

The ionosphere, as the name suggests, is the region where solar radiation (UV and X-ray)ionises the upper regions of the atmosphere. This enables radio waves to re-radiate from the layer and so allows the lower frequencies to bounce off the ionosphere. That's the simple answer.

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/phenomena/ionosphere

If you look at the diagram, you will see that if the frequency is high enough, it will pass through the ionosphere. This is why super high frequency radars have short range. They cannot bounce off the ionosphere. They are not able to follow the curvature of the earth. The higher frequencies are required to give enough definition to a target to track it. Low frequency radars have much longer ranges but are unable to provide enough data to allow a lock on the target. Stealth aircraft are not invisible to all radar frequencies. They are near invisible to radars that are suitable to guide missiles to a target. Modern missiles have built in seekers, radar and/or Infra red, to overcome the limitations of long range radar. Once the missile is near enough, the inbuilt seekers take over and the target has to defend itself. Easier said than done.
I guess I'm dumb, I still don't understand. lol Can you work with me? I want to understand your view here.

Um. Yeah, so radio waves bounce off of an ionizes atmosphere?!?! I get that bit, but what gets ionized?

Can you please explain this atmosphere? Is it made out of Jello? Air? Ether? What? I'm gonna need some information, because ionizing atmosphere doesn't really answer my question. Forget the ionizing bit, what is this atmosphere you speak of? Please go into depth on this atmosphere that gets ionized.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
3,222
113
I guess I'm dumb, I still don't understand. lol Can you work with me? I want to understand your view here.

Um. Yeah, so radio waves bounce off of an ionizes atmosphere?!?! I get that bit, but what gets ionized?

Can you please explain this atmosphere? Is it made out of Jello? Air? Ether? What? I'm gonna need some information, because ionizing atmosphere doesn't really answer my question. Forget the ionizing bit, what is this atmosphere you speak of? Please go into depth on this atmosphere that gets ionized.
https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/atmosphere/layers-earths-atmosphere

No doubt you know that the atmosphere, i.e. air, is less dense as it rises above sea level. It took me a couple of days to get used to the thinner air at the Grand Canyon. Climbers take oxygen with them to the summit of Everest.

So yes, it's air, which I am breathing right now. To be more precise,

"Nitrogen and oxygen are by far the most common gases in Earth's atmosphere. Dry air is composed of about 78% nitrogen (N2) and about 21% oxygen (O2). The remaining less than 1% of the atmosphere is a mixture of gases, including Argon (Ar) and carbon dioxide (CO2). The atmosphere also contains varying amounts of water vapor, on average about 1%. There are also many, tiny, solid or liquid particles, called aerosols, in the atmosphere. Aerosols can be made of dust, spores and pollen, salt from sea spray, volcanic ash, smoke, and pollutants introduced through human activity."
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
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https://scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/atmosphere/layers-earths-atmosphere

No doubt you know that the atmosphere, i.e. air, is less dense as it rises above sea level. It took me a couple of days to get used to the thinner air at the Grand Canyon. Climbers take oxygen with them to the summit of Everest.

So yes, it's air, which I am breathing right now. To be more precise,

"Nitrogen and oxygen are by far the most common gases in Earth's atmosphere. Dry air is composed of about 78% nitrogen (N2) and about 21% oxygen (O2). The remaining less than 1% of the atmosphere is a mixture of gases, including Argon (Ar) and carbon dioxide (CO2). The atmosphere also contains varying amounts of water vapor, on average about 1%. There are also many, tiny, solid or liquid particles, called aerosols, in the atmosphere. Aerosols can be made of dust, spores and pollen, salt from sea spray, volcanic ash, smoke, and pollutants introduced through human activity."
Fair enough, but I will keep my glass sky. Thanks for explaining.

1675310508313.jpeg
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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Fair enough, but I will keep my glass sky. Thanks for explaining.

View attachment 248093
If it was glass, it should have been well and truly shattered by now. Hundreds of people would have died by crashing into the glass. Not a lot of logic in what you believe. I'll stick to empirical observations from people who have been up there.
 

MrE

Active member
Jan 26, 2023
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If it was glass, it should have been well and truly shattered by now. Hundreds of people would have died by crashing into the glass. Not a lot of logic in what you believe. I'll stick to empirical observations from people who have been up there.
Like those rocketeers that took their arc’s out for a scoot on the moon in the 60’s. Very credible. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: