Did George Floyd actually die from cardiac arrest?

[kaylagrl]

One of the matters going on in this country is police brutality. A major issue is police killing people in front of witnesses capturing the murder on their phones, and the police in the frame of those phones not caring one bit.
I think that's a major issue today.
Being strangled to death under the knees of a cop who had issues with his victim. Yeah, yeah, I think, I could be wrong, that that's a major issue in this country today.

I think as responsible people we need to wait until all facts come out. As we have already seen, what we thought we knew, we didn't. Why was the whole video hidden? Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe before a knee was put on his neck. That's going to change the game. People want a certain narrative to be true. We need to wait and see what all the facts are.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I think as responsible people we need to wait until all facts come out. As we have already seen, what we thought we knew, we didn't. Why was the whole video hidden? Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe before a knee was put on his neck. That's going to change the game. People want a certain narrative to be true. We need to wait and see what all the facts are.

Waiting has never been a strong suit of the BLM Organization. Going back to Obama's presidency. Each riot or anti police protest was started before the facts even came out. But they do not trust the judicial system or law enforcement. So the facts to them are false even though the evidence typically says to contrary. As we saw with George Floyd. The family didn't trust the original autopsy so they get another one done that says exactly what they wanted it to say.

 

[soggykitten]

I think as responsible people we need to wait until all facts come out. As we have already seen, what we thought we knew, we didn't. Why was the whole video hidden? Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe before a knee was put on his neck. That's going to change the game. People want a certain narrative to be true. We need to wait and see what all the facts are.

You do? When you don't know all the facts because you never saw the older video where George is saying he can't breathe? While Chauvin was on his throat and back with each knee for nearly nine minutes. Nearly three minutes of that time was spent still there and after George Floyd stopped speaking! That illegal hold was illegal from the jump. Remaining on George Floyd for nearly 9 minutes, for which there is no excuse, being the coroners report said he died due to suffocation while in police custody, is murder.

The facts have come out! Thus far! The DA says Chauvin, due to a preponderance of all evidence thus far, is going to stand trial for first degree murder!
Those who say, that wasn't murder, are second guessing a District Attorney.
It wasn't their family member there under those knees. It wasn't they themselves. But they know more than a DA? Really?

Why didn't we see the whole video? This latest cop cam video coming out just days ago? Because the police perspective cameras are evidence in this case. And the citizen videos you haven't seen don't provide the perspective of a cop camera.

The question really is, why did the DA authorize the release of this latest cop camera video now? When all the rioting and terrorism that occurred ostensibly in retaliation for this horrific assault on GF has seemingly died down. At least in the press. Now, this latest video is going to set it off again.

 

[kaylagrl]

You do? When you don't know all the facts because you never saw the older video where George is saying he can't breathe? While Chauvin was on his throat and back with each knee for nearly nine minutes. Nearly three minutes of that time was spent still there and after George Floyd stopped speaking! That illegal hold was illegal from the jump. Remaining on George Floyd for nearly 9 minutes, for which there is no excuse, being the coroners report said he died due to suffocation while in police custody, is murder.

Time will tell. I guarantee the fact that he was saying he couldn't breathe before he was ever put on the ground is going to come into play.

The facts have come out! Thus far! The DA says Chauvin, due to a preponderance of all evidence thus far, is going to stand trial for first degree murder!
Those who say, that wasn't murder, are second guessing a District Attorney.
It wasn't their family member there under those knees. It wasn't they themselves. But they know more than a DA? Really?

I think you're going to find they are going to have a hard time making murder stick. But as I said, time will tell.

Why didn't we see the whole video? This latest cop cam video coming out just days ago? Because the police perspective cameras are evidence in this case. And the citizen videos you haven't seen don't provide the perspective of a cop camera.

The question really is, why did the DA authorize the release of this latest cop camera video now? When all the rioting and terrorism that occurred ostensibly in retaliation for this horrific assault on GF has seemingly died down. At least in the press. Now, this latest video is going to set it off again.

It was leaked. And the riots have nothing whatever to do with Floyds death. If this doesn't come out the way the public court of opinion judged it, there is going to be much worse happening in the streets. Will the police be defunded by that time? People better brace themselves, this is about to get much worse.

 

[kaylagrl]

Waiting has never been a strong suit of the BLM Organization. Going back to Obama's presidency. Each riot or anti police protest was started before the facts even came out. But they do not trust the judicial system or law enforcement. So the facts to them are false even though the evidence typically says to contrary. As we saw with George Floyd. The family didn't trust the original autopsy so they get another one done that says exactly what they wanted it to say.

Right, hands up don't shoot was an utter lie but people still believe it. I always say wait till all the facts come out. But people never do.

 

[soggykitten]

Time will tell. I guarantee the fact that he was saying he couldn't breathe before he was ever put on the ground is going to come into play.

And yet, for nearly 9 minutes George Floyd saying he couldn't breathe, while evidence shows the reason for that was an illegal hold perpetrated by Chauvin, and nearly three minutes after Floyd went unconscious, is the evidence indicative of intention to do harm. Maybe take the time to look up what is defined as murder , first degree, in Minnesota.
Just to say, the onus is not on me to provide that since you have not seen the first video of this assault that led to the charges by the DA ultimately for first degree murder against Chauvin.

I think you're going to find they are going to have a hard time making murder stick. But as I said, time will tell.

There are many degrees of murder in Minnesota. And come the trial there can be lesser included charges that may include any one of those.
This was murder! The entire procedure was unlawful and against regulations. If not, the cops would be on the beat still.

It was leaked.

Sure. While in the custody of the DA's office. "Leaked".

And the riots have nothing whatever to do with Floyds death. If this doesn't come out the way the public court of opinion judged it, there is going to be much worse happening in the streets. Will the police be defunded by that time? People better brace themselves, this is about to get much worse.

I never said riots had anything to do with Floyd's death. Why would you?

These videos demand prosecution and police reform! Not terrorist violence and riots!
As to your question about defunding? Who's to say? If , GOD FORBID, Biden gets the White House his VP who will take the actual seat of President likely will defund the police.

June 26th https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/na...uts-plan-to-abolish-police-in-motion/2354255/

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You do? When you don't know all the facts because you never saw the older video where George is saying he can't breathe? While Chauvin was on his throat and back with each knee for nearly nine minutes. Nearly three minutes of that time was spent still there and after George Floyd stopped speaking! That illegal hold was illegal from the jump. Remaining on George Floyd for nearly 9 minutes, for which there is no excuse, being the coroners report said he died due to suffocation while in police custody, is murder.

The facts have come out! Thus far! The DA says Chauvin, due to a preponderance of all evidence thus far, is going to stand trial for first degree murder!
Those who say, that wasn't murder, are second guessing a District Attorney.
It wasn't their family member there under those knees. It wasn't they themselves. But they know more than a DA? Really?

Why didn't we see the whole video? This latest cop cam video coming out just days ago? Because the police perspective cameras are evidence in this case. And the citizen videos you haven't seen don't provide the perspective of a cop camera.

The question really is, why did the DA authorize the release of this latest cop camera video now? When all the rioting and terrorism that occurred ostensibly in retaliation for this horrific assault on GF has seemingly died down. At least in the press. Now, this latest video is going to set it off again.

That illegal hold was illegal from the jump. Remaining on George Floyd for nearly 9 minutes, for which there is no excuse, being the coroners report said he died due to suffocation while in police custody, is murder.

Two autopsies that contradict each other will definitely make things complicating. No one is arguing that the knee on the neck as a restraint was justified. What we are debating is

1. was it the officers restraint that killed him. In my opinion the defense attorney has a good case to defeat the murder charge.
2. Was this an act of racism? According to evidence, no.
3. How about a byproduct of systematic racism? The data doesn't prove it either, so no.
4. Was Floyd innocent and did nothing wrong? The new leaked footage proves he definitely was not compliant, having health problems before the knee incident, and with the autopsy report both do agree he was on a mixture of drugs including fentanyl. He had a high dose of fentanyl that can kill the average person. Fentanyl also lowers your ability to breath.

Those who say, that wasn't murder, are second guessing a District Attorney.

The District Attorney isn't the jury and the jury or the people will decide if this new leaked footage will change the perspective. I believe it will.

why did the DA authorize the release of this latest cop camera video now?

the footage was leaked to a foreign news outlet. We still wouldn't have seen it if it wasn't for the UK press. Why is our media so quiet about the new footage? Doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Right, hands up don't shoot was an utter lie but people still believe it. I always say wait till all the facts come out. But people never do.

Exactly. It is the alternative motive that these groups are after. They could care less for evidence.

 

[soggykitten]

Two autopsies that contradict each other will definitely make things complicating. No one is arguing that the knee on the neck as a restraint was justified. What we are debating is

1. was it the officers restraint that killed him. In my opinion the defense attorney has a good case to defeat the murder charge.
2. Was this an act of racism? According to evidence, no.
3. How about a byproduct of systematic racism? The data doesn't prove it either, so no.
4. Was Floyd innocent and did nothing wrong? The new leaked footage proves he definitely was not compliant, having health problems before the knee incident, and with the autopsy report both do agree he was on a mixture of drugs including fentanyl. He had a high dose of fentanyl that can kill the average person. Fentanyl also lowers your ability to breath.

I'll take your response there sort of point for point starting before the enumerated points you made. The autopsies. The private autopsy by Dr.Baden, this was in the other discussion that contained the original civilian camera phone and CCTV footage, was not able to be as thorough as the "official" one. As Baden even admitted and due to Baden not having what amounts to, all of George Floyd to examine. That is something I would think will come into play also in the trial.
2. No one can say if this assault and death was an act of Racism on Chauvin's part. And I doubt he'll answer that. What we know is he and Floyd knocked heads before this on numerous occassions. 3.Not relevant to the actual case against Chauvin and the other charged officers. The data on systematic racism speaks for itself. Sadly enough.
4. There is not a thing Floyd did that warranted being suffocated by a police officer for nearly 9 minutes. Your comments about Fentanyl are yours alone if they do not comport with CoD in the first autopsy.

The District Attorney isn't the jury and the jury or the people will decide if this new leaked footage will change the perspective. I believe it will.

Most everyone knows that already about the DA is not the jury and it being a jury trial. The new leaked footage in my view won't change the culpability after the fact, of that footage we saw, as pertains to the footage of Chauvin's compressing George Floyds airways for nearly nine full minutes. The last three of those after George Floyd was unresponsive. And also, remember, during those nearly three minutes another officer walked over after Floyd was quiet and checked his pulse in his neck and walked off. That footage is in my view damning. That fact compounded with the other fact that what precipitated Floyd dying in that manner was that Chauvin put Floyd into an illegal hold, which he knew was illegal, and Chauvin has a previous citizen assault history, multiple counts, for nearly nine full minutes! There is absolutely zero cause for this! There is no lawful excuse to be proffered. None.

the footage was leaked to a foreign news outlet.

By whom? When it was in an American District Attorney of Minneapolis Minnesota's custody first?

We still wouldn't have seen it if it wasn't for the UK press.

The Daily Mail has a HQ in New York, NY.

Why is our media so quiet about the new footage? Doesn't fit the narrative.

They're not silent. https://www.bing.com/search?pc=COSP...ootage+offered+to+american+news+outlets+first

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I'll take your response there sort of point for point starting before the enumerated points you made. The autopsies. The private autopsy by Dr.Baden, this was in the other discussion that contained the original civilian camera phone and CCTV footage, was not able to be as thorough as the "official" one. As Baden even admitted and due to Baden not having what amounts to, all of George Floyd to examine. That is something I would think will come into play also in the trial.
2. No one can say if this assault and death was an act of Racism on Chauvin's part. And I doubt he'll answer that. What we know is he and Floyd knocked heads before this on numerous occassions. 3.Not relevant to the actual case against Chauvin and the other charged officers. The data on systematic racism speaks for itself. Sadly enough.
4. There is not a thing Floyd did that warranted being suffocated by a police officer for nearly 9 minutes. Your comments about Fentanyl are yours alone if they do not comport with CoD in the first autopsy.

Most everyone knows that already about the DA is not the jury and it being a jury trial. The new leaked footage in my view won't change the culpability after the fact, of that footage we saw, as pertains to the footage of Chauvin's compressing George Floyds airways for nearly nine full minutes. The last three of those after George Floyd was unresponsive. And also, remember, during those nearly three minutes another officer walked over after Floyd was quiet and checked his pulse in his neck and walked off. That footage is in my view damning. That fact compounded with the other fact that what precipitated Floyd dying in that manner was that Chauvin put Floyd into an illegal hold, which he knew was illegal, and Chauvin has a previous citizen assault history, multiple counts, for nearly nine full minutes! There is absolutely zero cause for this! There is no lawful excuse to be proffered. None.



By whom? When it was in an American District Attorney of Minneapolis Minnesota's custody first? The Daily Mail has a HQ in New York, NY. They're not silent. https://www.bing.com/search?pc=COSP...ootage+offered+to+american+news+outlets+first

The data on systematic racism speaks for itself. Sadly enough.

Relevant to police reform. Sadly? It is good. The data shows that systematic racism is false. I have another thread on here with the many different studies to prove it. In fact just studying last years police unarmed shootings will show almost all was justified.

There is not a thing Floyd did that warranted being suffocated by a police officer for nearly 9 minutes. Your comments about Fentanyl are yours alone if they do not comport with CoD in the first autopsy.

Definitely not as black and white as this new footage shows. The man was having breathing problems before they did anything to him. He also was having a hard time walking, talking to his moma who had been dead for 2 years, and was fighting to not get put in the car when he was just fine sitting in his own car. And no it is a fact he had had 11 ng of fentanyl in his blood. When terminal cancer patients die usually unconscious they average 12 ng. It is also fact you can look up the side effects of fentanyl. It suppresses breathing.

Chauvin has a previous citizen assault history,

Yes, bad cop. Should of been fired a long time ago. But this doesn't prove the BLM narrative. Racist cop, racist system, and the evidence seems to say it wasn't solely Chauvin that killed Floyd. It looks to be his drug use is what killed Floyd.

By whom? When it was in an American District Attorney of Minneapolis Minnesota's custody first?

They allowed someone to privately see the video but whoever leaked it, recorded it on their phone or some device. Then they leaked it to the press. Some people have already seem the footage including CNN who said they saw it months ago and wrote of course a nice bias piece of work.

The Daily Mail has a HQ in New York, NY.

Still a foreign newspaper.
The Daily Mail is a British daily middle-market newspaper published in London in a tabloid format. Founded in 1896, in 2020 it overtook The Sun to become the United Kingdom's highest-circulation daily newspaper.

They're not silent.

Oh but they are silent in the bias of what they say. Here is how MSN started their news article out.

"The more video evidence you see, the more unjustifiable George Floyd's torture and death at the hands of the police becomes," Attorney Ben Crump said in a statement after the videos leaked.
MINNEAPOLIS, MN — The attorney to George Floyd's family says that body camera footage leaked by a British tabloid Monday further indicates the injustice of Floyd's death. The Daily Mail published the footage from the bodycams worn by former officers Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng.

"The more video evidence you see, the more unjustifiable George Floyd's torture and death at the hands of the police becomes," Attorney Ben Crump said in a statement after the videos leaked.

"Although the allegation against George was for a non-violent offense involving a $20 bill, the police officers approached him with guns drawn, simply because he was a Black man. As this video shows, he never posed any threat. The officers' contradictions continue to build. If not for the videos, the world might never have known about the wrongs committed against George Floyd."

 

[soggykitten]

Relevant to police reform. Sadly? It is good. The data shows that systematic racism is false. I have another thread on here with the many different studies to prove it. In fact just studying last years police unarmed shootings will show almost all was justified.

LawOfficer.com The Problem with Using Statistics to Disprove Police Racism

Definitely not as black and white as this new footage shows. The man was having breathing problems before they did anything to him.

All the more reason for Chauvin not to compress his thorax and throat for nearly nine minutes.

He also was having a hard time walking,

Given how police were handling him, not surprising.

talking to his moma who had been dead for 2 years,

There have been people ask Jesus aloud to help them when they're encountering police. This does not mean they see Jesus there nor does it mean George Floyd saw him mom. The implication is he was hallucinating. We do not know and never shall, so why imply such a thing.

and was fighting to not get put in the car when he was just fine sitting in his own car.

Already discussed.

And no it is a fact he had had 11 ng of fentanyl in his blood. When terminal cancer patients die usually unconscious they average 12 ng. It is also fact you can look up the side effects of fentanyl. It suppresses breathing.

So does compressing someones chest and throat under body weight for nearly nine minutes.
I never said GF was not on drugs.

Yes, bad cop. Should of been fired a long time ago. But this doesn't prove the BLM narrative. Racist cop, racist system, and the evidence seems to say it wasn't solely Chauvin that killed Floyd.

I do not recognize BLM's narratives and do not knowingly repeat them.

It looks to be his drug use is what killed Floyd.

A personal opinion as the first coroners report did not state that.

They allowed someone to privately see the video but whoever leaked it, recorded it on their phone or some device. Then they leaked it to the press. Some people have already seem the footage including CNN who said they saw it months ago and wrote of course a nice bias piece of work.

I try to avoid CNN when possible, though I have posted some of their videos in other discussions. Daily Mail nor anyone else at least in reporting knows how this footage was recorded so as to be leaked to DM.

Still a foreign newspaper.
The Daily Mail is a British daily middle-market newspaper published in London in a tabloid format. Founded in 1896, in 2020 it overtook The Sun to become the United Kingdom's highest-circulation daily newspaper.

And why is it being a foreign newspaper mean anything here? Headquartered in America and also published here.

Oh but they are silent in the bias of what they say. Here is how MSN started their news article out.

"The more video evidence you see, the more unjustifiable George Floyd's torture and death at the hands of the police becomes," Attorney Ben Crump said in a statement after the videos leaked.
MINNEAPOLIS, MN — The attorney to George Floyd's family says that body camera footage leaked by a British tabloid Monday further indicates the injustice of Floyd's death. The Daily Mail published the footage from the bodycams worn by former officers Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng.

"The more video evidence you see, the more unjustifiable George Floyd's torture and death at the hands of the police becomes," Attorney Ben Crump said in a statement after the videos leaked.

"Although the allegation against George was for a non-violent offense involving a $20 bill, the police officers approached him with guns drawn, simply because he was a Black man. As this video shows, he never posed any threat. The officers' contradictions continue to build. If not for the videos, the world might never have known about the wrongs committed against George Floyd."

Not all reporting sources in the link are MSM. Further, in the leaked video Officer Lane did have his weapon drawn when Floyd was still in the car. https://www.startribune.com/read-the-transcript-of-thomas-lane-s-body-camera-footage/571678791/

 

[Roughsoul1991]

LawOfficer.com The Problem with Using Statistics to Disprove Police Racism




All the more reason for Chauvin not to compress his thorax and throat for nearly nine minutes. Given how police were handling him, not surprising. There have been people ask Jesus aloud to help them when they're encountering police. This does not mean they see Jesus there nor does it mean George Floyd saw him mom. The implication is he was hallucinating. We do not know and never shall, so why imply such a thing. Already discussed. So does compressing someones chest and throat under body weight for nearly nine minutes.
I never said GF was not on drugs.

I do not recognize BLM's narratives and do not knowingly repeat them. A personal opinion as the first coroners report did not state that.



I try to avoid CNN when possible, though I have posted some of their videos in other discussions. Daily Mail nor anyone else at least in reporting knows how this footage was recorded so as to be leaked to DM.

And why is it being a foreign newspaper mean anything here? Headquartered in America and also published here.





Not all reporting sources in the link are MSM. Further, in the leaked video Officer Lane did have his weapon drawn when Floyd was still in the car. https://www.startribune.com/read-the-transcript-of-thomas-lane-s-body-camera-footage/571678791/

LawOfficer.com The Problem with Using Statistics to Disprove Police Racism

Like what incidents are not reported? The burden of proof is still on those who claim systematic racism. If you research it, they collect a lot of data. Granted they should classify unarmed better because many of the unarmed killings was the criminal driving a car, choking the officer, trying to steal the officers gun or tazer, beating the officer, or holding a brick. Shoot. Just study the unarmed killings of 2019. Out of millions of police interactions in 2019 it was like 14 African Americans, 23 whites in unarmed killings. And like 2 went to trial, 1 did end with the officer charged while the other the officer was found not guilty.

Even Washington Post keeps its own record.

In 2019, police shot and killed 1,003 people in the US, according to the Washington Post’s Fatal Force database. Of those, 250 were black and 405 white. Police shot and killed 55 unarmed suspects, including 25 whites and 14 blacks.

According to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR), there were 686,665 sworn police officers in the United States in 2018. That’s one unarmed black male shot and killed for every 49,047 sworn police officers.

Then you have to prove the motive was racist. Just because a different race shoots another race doesn't prove racism. The narrative is false.

Plus we can go into the many different private data studies that also shows we do not have a race problem but a culture problem.

All the more reason for Chauvin not to compress his thorax and throat for nearly nine minutes.

Obviously, they thought he was just being defiant because straight from the start he wouldn't show his hands, forcing the officer to pull his gun. Many people have been shot for doing just that. An officer has been shot too many times while walking up the car door.

Given how police were handling him, not surprising.

Actually the officers did a good job until the neck incident. Floyd was crying in pain while the officer just held his arm.

This does not mean they see Jesus there nor does it mean George Floyd saw him mom. The implication is he was hallucinating. We do not know and never shall, so why imply such a thing.

Circumstantial evidence. It happened and could be related to the different drugs in his system or organ failure.

I do not recognize BLM's narratives and do not knowingly repeat them.

But you agree with their narrative of systematic racism?

A personal opinion as the first coroners report did not state that.

Organ failure could be influenced by many different things. The report listed the drugs and amounts. 11ng of fentanyl can kill you. The report speaks of organ failure complicating the police restraints. Either way, it will come out in court.

Further, in the leaked video Officer Lane did have his weapon drawn when Floyd was still in the car.

Good. I would of too.

Both Floyd and the officer we're criminals. Justice should be on both sides. The family could sue over the illegal restraint. While the officer should lose his job but it will be hard to prove murder especially with the new footage showing that Floyd was having breathing problems before. The only question then should be motive.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'll take your response there sort of point for point starting before the enumerated points you made. The autopsies. The private autopsy by Dr.Baden, this was in the other discussion that contained the original civilian camera phone and CCTV footage, was not able to be as thorough as the "official" one. As Baden even admitted and due to Baden not having what amounts to, all of George Floyd to examine. That is something I would think will come into play also in the trial.
2. No one can say if this assault and death was an act of Racism on Chauvin's part. And I doubt he'll answer that. What we know is he and Floyd knocked heads before this on numerous occassions. 3.Not relevant to the actual case against Chauvin and the other charged officers. The data on systematic racism speaks for itself. Sadly enough.
4. There is not a thing Floyd did that warranted being suffocated by a police officer for nearly 9 minutes. Your comments about Fentanyl are yours alone if they do not comport with CoD in the first autopsy.

Most everyone knows that already about the DA is not the jury and it being a jury trial. The new leaked footage in my view won't change the culpability after the fact, of that footage we saw, as pertains to the footage of Chauvin's compressing George Floyds airways for nearly nine full minutes. The last three of those after George Floyd was unresponsive. And also, remember, during those nearly three minutes another officer walked over after Floyd was quiet and checked his pulse in his neck and walked off. That footage is in my view damning. That fact compounded with the other fact that what precipitated Floyd dying in that manner was that Chauvin put Floyd into an illegal hold, which he knew was illegal, and Chauvin has a previous citizen assault history, multiple counts, for nearly nine full minutes! There is absolutely zero cause for this! There is no lawful excuse to be proffered. None.



By whom? When it was in an American District Attorney of Minneapolis Minnesota's custody first? The Daily Mail has a HQ in New York, NY. They're not silent. https://www.bing.com/search?pc=COSP...ootage+offered+to+american+news+outlets+first

According to USA Today, the Daily Mail put out the extra footage. "Judge Peter Cahill has not yet ruled on a motion by a coalition of news organizations seeking public access to the videos", according to the report.Hennepin County District Court spokesman Spenser Bickett told USA TODAY the court is working with police to investigate how the Daily Mail obtained the copies of the two videos, which were submitted to the court on July 7, but declined further comment.

 

[soggykitten]

Like what incidents are not reported?

Like, per your Washington Post source later on in your post, Washington Post’s tally doesn’t account for off-duty police or the use by on-duty officers of other force that can be lethal, such as tasers or physical restraint. The burden of proof is still on those who claim systematic racism. If you research it, they collect a lot of data. Granted they should classify unarmed better because many of the unarmed killings was the criminal driving a car, choking the officer, trying to steal the officers gun or tazer, beating the officer, or holding a brick. Shoot. Just study the unarmed killings of 2019. Out of millions of police interactions in 2019 it was like 14 African Americans, 23 whites in unarmed killings. And like 2 went to trial, 1 did end with the officer charged while the other the officer was found not guilty.[/quote]I wouldn't think the burden of proof is on those who refer tosystemic racism so when, as with the WP evidence, it can't be proven reports and statistics concerning the incindiary topic of police and the deaths of individuals encountered, are incomplete or skewed.

Even Washington Post keeps its own record.

In 2019, police shot and killed 1,003 people in the US, according to the Washington Post’s Fatal Force database. Of those, 250 were black and 405 white. Police shot and killed 55 unarmed suspects, including 25 whites and 14 blacks.

The article linked earlier addresses WP's record. Linked here again. https://www.politifact.com/factchec...elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/

According to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR), there were 686,665 sworn police officers in the United States in 2018. That’s one unarmed black male shot and killed for every 49,047 sworn police officers.

Then you have to prove the motive was racist. Just because a different race shoots another race doesn't prove racism. The narrative is false.

I myself wouldn't make an untenable blanket claim like that, thinking I am able to speak for the mentality of every police officer of those more than six hundred thousand in service. I think you're reaching to sponsor a narrative you prefer. Rather than realizing there are racist police and they act on that under color of law.

Plus we can go into the many different private data studies that also shows we do not have a race problem but a culture problem.

If those private studies extricated race as a matter pertaining to that cultural problem, they're not credible. Race is an issue in the American culture.

Obviously, they thought he was just being defiant because straight from the start he wouldn't show his hands, forcing the officer to pull his gun. Many people have been shot for doing just that. An officer has been shot too many times while walking up the car door.

Oh, so now the officer did pull his gun when GF was in the car? Some have said the officers were polite and respectful from the start and there was no gun.
What happened in this incident is the issue. Other encounters with police are not. No cop was shot approaching the car Floyd and his passengers were in.

Actually the officers did a good job until the neck incident. Floyd was crying in pain while the officer just held his arm.

Really? A good job until the neck incident? How the arm was held is a restraint hold meant to impart pain and compliance.

Circumstantial evidence. It happened and could be related to the different drugs in his system or organ failure.

Coroner's finding per Cause of Death. CoD

But you agree with their narrative of systematic racism?

I can't say absolutely there is systemic racism in the police force because the data is not consistent. However, I will say that racism is extant in the culture of America. And when an American happens to join the police force and they are also racist, there will be issues. Just to clear a hurdle before it appears, racists come in all colors.

Organ failure could be influenced by many different things. The report listed the drugs and amounts. 11ng of fentanyl can kill you. The report speaks of organ failure complicating the police restraints. Either way, it will come out in court.

Yes, I know. However, the CoD by the original coroner, when Baden as he admitted did not have all of GL's tissues to test, will too.

Good. I would of too.

I'm so glad you're not a cop.

Both Floyd and the officer we're criminals. Justice should be on both sides. The family could sue over the illegal restraint. While the officer should lose his job but it will be hard to prove murder especially with the new footage showing that Floyd was having breathing problems before. The only question then should be motive.

There's one problem with your perspective. When George Floyd was having breathing problems before, which the officers attending would know, it makes it more premeditated an act that Chauvin, being aware of the breathing problems, would throw George Floyd to the pavement and then compress his breathing organs with his own body weight for nearly nine minutes.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Like, per your Washington Post source later on in your post, Washington Post’s tally doesn’t account for off-duty police or the use by on-duty officers of other force that can be lethal, such as tasers or physical restraint. The burden of proof is still on those who claim systematic racism. If you research it, they collect a lot of data. Granted they should classify unarmed better because many of the unarmed killings was the criminal driving a car, choking the officer, trying to steal the officers gun or tazer, beating the officer, or holding a brick. Shoot. Just study the unarmed killings of 2019. Out of millions of police interactions in 2019 it was like 14 African Americans, 23 whites in unarmed killings. And like 2 went to trial, 1 did end with the officer charged while the other the officer was found not guilty.

I wouldn't think the burden of proof is on those who refer tosystemic racism so when, as with the WP evidence, it can't be proven reports and statistics concerning the incindiary topic of police and the deaths of individuals encountered, are incomplete or skewed.

The article linked earlier addresses WP's record. Linked here again. https://www.politifact.com/factchec...elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/

I myself wouldn't make an untenable blanket claim like that, thinking I am able to speak for the mentality of every police officer of those more than six hundred thousand in service. I think you're reaching to sponsor a narrative you prefer. Rather than realizing there are racist police and they act on that under color of law.

If those private studies extricated race as a matter pertaining to that cultural problem, they're not credible. Race is an issue in the American culture.



Oh, so now the officer did pull his gun when GF was in the car? Some have said the officers were polite and respectful from the start and there was no gun.
What happened in this incident is the issue. Other encounters with police are not. No cop was shot approaching the car Floyd and his passengers were in.




Really? A good job until the neck incident? How the arm was held is a restraint hold meant to impart pain and compliance.


Coroner's finding per Cause of Death. CoD



I can't say absolutely there is systemic racism in the police force because the data is not consistent. However, I will say that racism is extant in the culture of America. And when an American happens to join the police force and they are also racist, there will be issues. Just to clear a hurdle before it appears, racists come in all colors.


Yes, I know. However, the CoD by the original coroner, when Baden as he admitted did not have all of GL's tissues to test, will too.



I'm so glad you're not a cop.


There's one problem with your perspective. When George Floyd was having breathing problems before, which the officers attending would know, it makes it more premeditated an act that Chauvin, being aware of the breathing problems, would throw George Floyd to the pavement and then compress his breathing organs with his own body weight for nearly nine minutes.[/QUOTE]

Like, per your Washington Post source later on in your post, Washington Post’s tally doesn’t account for off-duty police or the use by on-duty officers of other force that can be lethal, such as tasers or physical restraint.

I was examining the unarmed narrative just like Floyd to see how often the unarmed are innocent and not a threat who was killed. If you want to study if a taser or car was used then you have to study each case.

I wouldn't think the burden of proof is on those who refer tosystemic racism so when, as with the WP evidence, it can't be proven reports and statistics concerning the incindiary topic of police and the deaths of individuals encountered, are incomplete or skewed.

Oh but it is. They made the claim. We have lots of current data even if some are lacking. Also just because one race for example white people are killed more than blacks by cops doesn't mean racism. It means the white population is bigger. Now by percentage black people by population is in a high crime problem based on many variables but are not targeted for race. These areas are just high crime areas. It is only nationally recognized when the white cop kills an innocent black guy narrative pops up. We have all races of cops who rarely have to kill other races. Yes, it is rare by the data.

Rather than realizing there are racist police and they act on that under color of law.

Again you have to prove the motive to be racist.

If those private studies extricated race as a matter pertaining to that cultural problem, they're not credible. Race is an issue in the American culture.

Here I'll post the link so you can read the studies. Just scroll down to find the ones I posted.

https://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/us-police-data.192633/

Here is one from MSU.edu.

“We found that the race of the officer doesn’t matter when it comes to predicting whether black or white citizens are shot," Cesario said. "If anything, black citizens are more likely to have been shot by black officers, but this is because black officers are drawn from the same population that they police. So, the more black citizens there are in a community, the more black police officers there are.”

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/

Racism of course will always exist. But it isn't the main problem. It is a political division. The minorities largely vote Democrat while whites largely vote Republican. All of this is a political stunt. They have to create false racist narratives just to promote the Marxist tactic of creating class wars or race wars. It is the communist way. It is how the Russia revolution began, the Cuban takeover, or the German Naxi regime.

Oh, so now the officer did pull his gun when GF was in the car? Some have said the officers were polite and respectful from the start and there was no gun.
What happened in this incident is the issue. Other encounters with police are not. No cop was shot approaching the car Floyd and his passengers were in.

I never said he didn't. It is in the video. The gun wasn't drawn until he was not compliant with the officer's order to see his hands. You can watch the video below. Once he does what he is told, the officer puts his gun away.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-moment-moment-arrest-George-Floyd-time.html

George Floyd could have had a gun in the other hand. As to why police are trained to get control. Floyd was immediately not listening. The officer asked like 3 times before drawing his sidearm.

How the arm was held is a restraint hold meant to impart pain and compliance.

No. It was a typical behind the back handcuffing.

I will say that racism is extant in the culture of America.

Okay, to what extent? 1850s bad? 1970s bad?

There's one problem with your perspective. When George Floyd was having breathing problems before, which the officers attending would know, it makes it more premeditated an act that Chauvin, being aware of the breathing problems, would throw George Floyd to the pavement and then compress his breathing organs with his own body weight for nearly nine minutes.

It was to there understanding if you can talk then you can breathe. Have you never watched live pd? Criminals say things all the time to try and manipulate the situation.

But im not debating rather Chauvin is innocent or guilty. Floyd's cause of death will determine that. I'm attacking the narrative behind the incident. The evidence says this case is much more complicated, racism so far wasn't a factor, and systematic racism has not been proven but in my research disproven.

 

[soggykitten]

I wouldn't think the burden of proof is on those who refer tosystemic racism so when, as with the WP evidence, it can't be proven reports and statistics concerning the incindiary topic of police and the deaths of individuals encountered, are incomplete or skewed.

As already noted and outlined in a previous linked article, the WP evidence is not conclusive.

The article linked earlier addresses WP's record. Linked here again. https://www.politifact.com/factchec...elder-mislabels-statistics-fatal-shootings-p/

Thanks.

I'm going to leave it here becasue when I hit Reply to your rather long post in response to my really long post, what showed was my really long post starting with "I myself" below and continuing while interjecting your remarks as well and all the way to the end. That's odd. I'm not in the mood to go and extricate your responses that I thought I could reply to had the system worked right.

Where the "Reply" button stopped showing your posts alone:
I myself wouldn't make an untenable blanket claim like that, thinking I am able to speak for the mentality of every police officer of those more than six hundred thousand in service. I think you're reaching to sponsor a narrative you prefer. Rather than realizing there are racist police and they act on that under color of law.

If those private studies extricated race as a matter pertaining to that cultural problem, they're not credible. Race is an issue in the American culture.



Oh, so now the officer did pull his gun when GF was in the car? Some have said the officers were polite and respectful from the start and there was no gun.
What happened in this incident is the issue. Other encounters with police are not. No cop was shot approaching the car Floyd and his passengers were in.




Really? A good job until the neck incident? How the arm was held is a restraint hold meant to impart pain and compliance.


Coroner's finding per Cause of Death. CoD



I can't say absolutely there is systemic racism in the police force because the data is not consistent. However, I will say that racism is extant in the culture of America. And when an American happens to join the police force and they are also racist, there will be issues. Just to clear a hurdle before it appears, racists come in all colors.


Yes, I know. However, the CoD by the original coroner, when Baden as he admitted did not have all of GL's tissues to test, will too.



I'm so glad you're not a cop.


There's one problem with your perspective. When George Floyd was having breathing problems before, which the officers attending would know, it makes it more premeditated an act that Chauvin, being aware of the breathing problems, would throw George Floyd to the pavement and then compress his breathing organs with his own body weight for nearly nine minutes.[/QUOTE]


I was examining the unarmed narrative just like Floyd to see how often the unarmed are innocent and not a threat who was killed. If you want to study if a taser or car was used then you have to study each case.



Oh but it is. They made the claim. We have lots of current data even if some are lacking. Also just because one race for example white people are killed more than blacks by cops doesn't mean racism. It means the white population is bigger. Now by percentage black people by population is in a high crime problem based on many variables but are not targeted for race. These areas are just high crime areas. It is only nationally recognized when the white cop kills an innocent black guy narrative pops up. We have all races of cops who rarely have to kill other races. Yes, it is rare by the data.



Again you have to prove the motive to be racist.



Here I'll post the link so you can read the studies. Just scroll down to find the ones I posted.

https://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/us-police-data.192633/

Here is one from MSU.edu.

“We found that the race of the officer doesn’t matter when it comes to predicting whether black or white citizens are shot," Cesario said. "If anything, black citizens are more likely to have been shot by black officers, but this is because black officers are drawn from the same population that they police. So, the more black citizens there are in a community, the more black police officers there are.”

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/

Racism of course will always exist. But it isn't the main problem. It is a political division. The minorities largely vote Democrat while whites largely vote Republican. All of this is a political stunt. They have to create false racist narratives just to promote the Marxist tactic of creating class wars or race wars. It is the communist way. It is how the Russia revolution began, the Cuban takeover, or the German Naxi regime.



I never said he didn't. It is in the video. The gun wasn't drawn until he was not compliant with the officer's order to see his hands. You can watch the video below. Once he does what he is told, the officer puts his gun away.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-moment-moment-arrest-George-Floyd-time.html

George Floyd could have had a gun in the other hand. As to why police are trained to get control. Floyd was immediately not listening. The officer asked like 3 times before drawing his sidearm.



No. It was a typical behind the back handcuffing.



Okay, to what extent? 1850s bad? 1970s bad?



It was to there understanding if you can talk then you can breathe. Have you never watched live pd? Criminals say things all the time to try and manipulate the situation.

But im not debating rather Chauvin is innocent or guilty. Floyd's cause of death will determine that. I'm attacking the narrative behind the incident. The evidence says this case is much more complicated, racism so far wasn't a factor, and systematic racism has not been proven but in my research disproven.[/QUOTE]

 

[Roughsoul1991]

UPDATE:
MINNEAPOLIS (FOX 9) - In a new filing in the case against a now-fired Minneapolis police officer involved in the killing of George Floyd, the officer’s attorney alleged that Floyd overdosed on fentanyl while resisting arrest and in doing so contributed to his own death, arguing the charges against the officer should be dropped.

Thomas Lane is charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter in connection with Floyd’s Memorial Day death. In July, his attorney, Earl Gray, filed a motion to dismiss the charges against Lane, arguing there is not enough evidence to establish probable cause that the former rookie officer committed a crime.

https://www.fox9.com/news/minneapol...ed-on-fentanyl-says-charges-should-be-dropped

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Another Update:
New court documents have uncovered two memorandums, dated May 26 and June 1, that suggest Chief Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker concluded George Floyd likely died from a fentanyl overdose and found “no physical evidence suggesting” that he died of asphyxiation.

“AB (Andrew Baker) said that if Mr. Floyd had been found dead in his home (or anywhere else) and there were no other contributing factors he would conclude that it was an overdose death,” says a memo dated June 1, outlining a May 31 virtual with Dr. Baker

The memos seemingly run contrary to the Armed Forces medical examiner and Hennepin County medical examiner’s final conclusion that Floyd’s death was a homicide.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/medi...ook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

 

[soggykitten]

The Pernicious Myth Of "If You Can Speak You Can Breathe"

 

[kaylagrl]

The Pernicious Myth Of "If You Can Speak You Can Breathe"

He said he couldn't breathe before anyone touched him. He died of an overdose, plain and simple.