Yoga is Dangerous to Christianity

GodFoundMe · Oct 5, 2020

Let me start off by saying that this is a great discussion and I love that you are sharing your perspective. SOO many Christians share your views and I am glad the discussion of this controversial topic has thus far been so respectful and without insult. The fruit of the Spirit

I think we can agree about a lot of things. We are all part of one body and serve in different ways, all for God’s purposes. You are right that as believers we should be pursuing mutual upbuilding. Division is definitely a problem in the church. However, it shouldn’t be at the cost of souls. If your brother is in sin, the Bible says to go to him alone, then with another person, and then with the church. Only then if he doesn’t listen then let him go. We’re supposed to gently correct each other. Not just shrug our shoulders and so we can stay unified let’s just ignore that and sing kumbaya. “Wickedness does not build up…” (Proverbs 12:3). I’m not saying that people that practice yoga are wicked, nor even that they’re willfully sinning. In ignoring the true origins of yoga and the poses, they are still participating in a Hindu and occult practice that has consequences either for them or others.

How many theological questions are there for people to divide over? Like does the Holy Spirit still act today or as cessationists believe no? Even ONE issue is answered differently. Like should infants be baptized or just adults? Do you sprinkle, pour, or immerse? Should it be in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Are any of those things truly important or not? Jesus prayed for us to be one, and yet how many Christian denominations exist? Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Anglican, Evangelical, Presbyterian, and the list goes on and on… And people can get really dogmatic about their specific beliefs. Calvinism has TULIP that they’re really adamant about as it’s central to them. Some people believe everybody has to speak in tongues, some that women can’t wear pants, some that you can only use the King James Version of the Bible, some that atonement is limited while others say it’s universal, and some Christians even today still get circumcised unnecessarily. The disciples met and settled that question and their decision applies to us today. Circumcision was not necessary for the Gentiles and yet some people back then were still doing and promoting it. Then and now, the same applies: “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm, therefore and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).

And all that’s not to mention politics. Republicans versus Democrats and there are Christians on both sides. And all the side issues in the world and the political ideologies people argue about. There are some terrible things going on in the world and people disagree with how to respond and are rude to people on the opposite side. Didn’t people in the Bible already go through that? People arguing that they followed Paul, Apollos, Peter, Christ and Paul asked “is Christ divided?” (see 1 Corinthians 1:10-17). The world should know us by our love. “If I have the gift of prophecy, and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:2). But is love just allowing people to do what they want? Do parents and God not have a discipline rod? And Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Is it bondage to obey? No, we do it because we love God and His commandments are not burdensome.

Notice I did not give answers to many of the above questions. That is for each believer to investigate, examine Scriptures, and decide on as the Spirit leads and convicts them. I agree we don’t need to have people be offended or confused, but instead like you said they do need wisdom and discernment. If you believe yoga is just stretching, then yes you could apply the rest of your logic to what you are saying. However, I believe the people that have come out of yoga who say it is tied to the spiritual realm and what’s on the other side is not God but demons. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Ephesians 6:12-13). There are people in positions of power that are promoting their agendas, and yet they will tell you it’s for good. “And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14).

In the end times most people will worship the antichrist and Luciferians today are getting the world ready. They think God is evil and Lucifer tried to help humanity by revealing the secrets in the tree of knowledge and so on. “You too shall be as gods” is still a lie perpetuated today by the same father of lies. Yoga tries to “yoke” your soul with Hindu gods or a universal consciousness. Why do you think these New Age beliefs get promoted on shows like Oprah, but not Jesus? Are there “many ways” to God or just “one way”? I believe yoga is spiritually dangerous for anybody, whether Christian or not. We’re warning anybody reading in love. Yoga could lead to actual bondage spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, etcetera. Look up the dark side of kundalini for evidence. It is not bondage to obey God who said not to do what the pagan nations do. “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you” (2 Corinthians 6:17).

AndyMaleh · Oct 6, 2020

Runningman said:

A rainbow flag doesn't mean LGBT. It's just a flag with a rainbow on it. The rainbow is one of God's creations mentioned in the Holy Bible (you probably have all seen it in the sky), and something young little girls like, which obviously has no sexual connotations whatsoever and nothing to do with the sin of homosexuality. You never have to accept any symbolisms or meanings from unbelievers, and it's wrong to do so anyways. Yoga is just stretching. It doesn't have any other meanings nor power, but must be avoided because it comes from Satan not from God and God doesn't protect followers of Satan from Satan's evil. As believers, we live in the Kingdom of God anyways where such things don't even exist. As such, they don't matter anyways and you may as well live your life as a believer with complete disregard for them. I avoid people who believe in them as reprobates (because sadly they are). If God inspires me to lead them towards his Kingdom, then I try to evangelize to them, but if they reject the Holy Spirit, then I wash my hands of them as God absolves me then from any responsibility towards them. Godspeed.

Runningman · Oct 6, 2020

GodFoundMe said:

Let me start off by saying that this is a great discussion and I love that you are sharing your perspective. SOO many Christians share your views and I am glad the discussion of this controversial topic has thus far been so respectful and without insult. The fruit of the Spirit

I think we can agree about a lot of things. We are all part of one body and serve in different ways, all for God’s purposes. You are right that as believers we should be pursuing mutual upbuilding. Division is definitely a problem in the church. However, it shouldn’t be at the cost of souls. If your brother is in sin, the Bible says to go to him alone, then with another person, and then with the church. Only then if he doesn’t listen then let him go. We’re supposed to gently correct each other. Not just shrug our shoulders and so we can stay unified let’s just ignore that and sing kumbaya. “Wickedness does not build up…” (Proverbs 12:3). I’m not saying that people that practice yoga are wicked, nor even that they’re willfully sinning. In ignoring the true origins of yoga and the poses, they are still participating in a Hindu and occult practice that has consequences either for them or others.

How many theological questions are there for people to divide over? Like does the Holy Spirit still act today or as cessationists believe no? Even ONE issue is answered differently. Like should infants be baptized or just adults? Do you sprinkle, pour, or immerse? Should it be in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Are any of those things truly important or not? Jesus prayed for us to be one, and yet how many Christian denominations exist? Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Anglican, Evangelical, Presbyterian, and the list goes on and on… And people can get really dogmatic about their specific beliefs. Calvinism has TULIP that they’re really adamant about as it’s central to them. Some people believe everybody has to speak in tongues, some that women can’t wear pants, some that you can only use the King James Version of the Bible, some that atonement is limited while others say it’s universal, and some Christians even today still get circumcised unnecessarily. The disciples met and settled that question and their decision applies to us today. Circumcision was not necessary for the Gentiles and yet some people back then were still doing and promoting it. Then and now, the same applies: “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm, therefore and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).

And all that’s not to mention politics. Republicans versus Democrats and there are Christians on both sides. And all the side issues in the world and the political ideologies people argue about. There are some terrible things going on in the world and people disagree with how to respond and are rude to people on the opposite side. Didn’t people in the Bible already go through that? People arguing that they followed Paul, Apollos, Peter, Christ and Paul asked “is Christ divided?” (see 1 Corinthians 1:10-17). The world should know us by our love. “If I have the gift of prophecy, and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:2). But is love just allowing people to do what they want? Do parents and God not have a discipline rod? And Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Is it bondage to obey? No, we do it because we love God and His commandments are not burdensome.

Notice I did not give answers to many of the above questions. That is for each believer to investigate, examine Scriptures, and decide on as the Spirit leads and convicts them. I agree we don’t need to have people be offended or confused, but instead like you said they do need wisdom and discernment. If you believe yoga is just stretching, then yes you could apply the rest of your logic to what you are saying. However, I believe the people that have come out of yoga who say it is tied to the spiritual realm and what’s on the other side is not God but demons. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Ephesians 6:12-13). There are people in positions of power that are promoting their agendas, and yet they will tell you it’s for good. “And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14).

In the end times most people will worship the antichrist and Luciferians today are getting the world ready. They think God is evil and Lucifer tried to help humanity by revealing the secrets in the tree of knowledge and so on. “You too shall be as gods” is still a lie perpetuated today by the same father of lies. Yoga tries to “yoke” your soul with Hindu gods or a universal consciousness. Why do you think these New Age beliefs get promoted on shows like Oprah, but not Jesus? Are there “many ways” to God or just “one way”? I believe yoga is spiritually dangerous for anybody, whether Christian or not. We’re warning anybody reading in love. Yoga could lead to actual bondage spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, etcetera. Look up the dark side of kundalini for evidence. It is not bondage to obey God who said not to do what the pagan nations do. “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you” (2 Corinthians 6:17).

Breathing is an integral part of yoga, too, not because people need to breathe to live, but because certain breathing exercises are required in it. If we are going to keep in step with your narrative then breathing is spiritually dangerous in the exact same way stretching and posing is for no other reason than it's in yoga.

The more this is scrutinized the more silly it sounds. If you're going to be against yoga because people have incorporated our body's ability to move and breath into mysticism then there is no limit to the restrictions you can find to place on believers.

In every place of worship, I want men to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy.
1 Timothy 2:8

In light of yoga what do you say to those in church who lift their hands in worship to God? Do you condemn them because hands are lifted in certain yoga poses?

Runningman · Oct 6, 2020

AndyMaleh said:

I agree with you, but we are also examining how symbols and body movements can be appropriated into non/anti-Christian systems.

It's about how a rainbow flag is perceived in the public eye or how yoga is perceived in the public eye and if it matters or not how good things can take on brand new meanings and therefore reflect poorly on Christians.

Not stopping there, of course, but also detailing a plan to upbuild believers, not cede God-given-ground to the devil, and taking back what was ours to begin with.

To me this is more than just about yoga. I don't even do yoga and probably never will. This is about the breaking yoke of restrictions imposed by self or others and leaving those chains of bondage on the floor where they belong.

GodFoundMe · Oct 8, 2020

AndyMaleh said:

You’re right that the rainbow is God’s and no we don’t have to accept that it symbolizes something else to the LGBT movement. God created it and chose what it means long before they were ever born. It’s good to evangelize because God may be calling them, but all we can do is plant seeds so don’t be discouraged if you don’t see any fruit for your effort. That may happen years later for that individual, only God knows and can finish the work He may have already started in their hearts.

As for other symbols, for varying reasons, some are probably wise to avoid. Like if you know a certain symbol is the logo of say a pedophile cult, why would you willingly choose to wear a shirt that seemingly supports that even if you don’t? But other things, like a shirt with say a pepperoni pizza is not bad just because someone says there’s an obesity problem in America so why are you wearing unhealthy food? If you like it and aren’t gluttonous, there’s nothing wrong with the food itself nor an image of it. And neither pizza nor the cult’s symbols would have any power, but occult practitioners sometimes like to chant over and put curses on certain symbols that could potentially have demons attached to those objects. “Could” being the key word. Do they? Maybe. Some might while others might not, but again why take that risk?

Satan invents many lies, including the one that yoga is “just stretching” and that it can be separated from its Hindu and occult ties. Believers have the Holy Spirit, but remember the book of Job? Did God not let Satan test Job with many trials? If believers don’t obey, we may not get possessed because of the Holy Spirit but we can still get demonically oppressed. By participating in occult or other religious practices we would be leaving the door open for demons. “You must no longer walk as the Gentiles do… and give no opportunity to the devil… Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:17, 27, 30). As believers, we follow certain guidelines given in Scripture for our collective good.

GodFoundMe · Oct 8, 2020

Runningman said:

Breathing is not spiritually dangerous because God invented it, made us breathe, and all way before yoga. The specific yoga poses have “gods” and stories behind them that directly oppose God. Shiva is the “god” of destruction and there are warrior poses that people make that act out killing and destroying that most people are ignorant of. Just because people don’t know what they’re doing doesn’t excuse them, otherwise Jesus never would have prayed “forgive them father for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34) and God through Hosea wouldn’t have said “my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” (Hosea 4:6). When the Israelites committed idolatry, God time and again accused them of harlotry and infidelity. They were not faithful to God. What are Christians today doing by participating in a Hindu practice?

It’s not about placing limits on people. We can stretch in many different ways. Why yoga? Did you ever read about what happened to the bronze serpent staff that Moses used? The Israelites were complaining against God so he sent serpents that killed many until they repented. God had meant it for good when He told Moses to make it for the Israelites to look at and get healed from the snake bites (see Numbers 21:5-9). However, the people later started to turn that good thing God had made and used into a bad thing when they committed the sin of idolatry. They even named it Nehushtan! The object itself wasn’t bad, but what the people did with it was. Hezekiah did right in the sight of the Lord and destroyed it (see 2 Kings 18:1-4).

So one could argue that a snake can symbolize good or bad. Satan the serpent or besides the original purpose of the one Moses made, the medical community uses snakes. I don’t think it’s bad to ride in an ambulance with that symbol, though that symbol apparently has to do with a Greek god. We live in the world though we’re not of it and will naturally encounter these things. One can have a pet snake that is neither good nor bad. I actually like looking at them in the pet store and held a corn snake once (or most of it anyway, it only partially went up my arm). But who is using the symbols and why?

Food is not bad, but gluttony is. Is it posing limits on people if the Bible says not to be gluttonous? Look at the commandments given in Exodus and specifically what it says about idols. “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God…” (Exodus 20:5). It’s not just don’t make idols, but physically don’t bow down to them. The physical act and spiritual allegiance is involved in the act of bowing down to them. I don’t think a person that culturally gives someone in Asia a small bow or taking a bow after a performance is bad because these people are not worshiping anyone. It’s a polite human custom. It only becomes bad when you bow and join in with other people that ARE worshiping.

There is nothing wrong with lifting your hands in worship, breathing, nor even in sitting with your legs crossed just because people who do yoga do it. If you notice though, they add putting your thumb and index fingers together which not coincidentally is also the “three sixes” symbol occult practitioners use, and often a chant or mantra as they call it to integrate when they practice meditating. Their definition and way of “meditating” is not what God means when he says to meditate on His word day and night. We mean think about it, they mean clear your mind and become enlightened by opening your third eye and so on. Helena Blavatsky was another occultist that visited India and brought yoga back to America. The super popular Beatles got into it. Why are these things promoted and not Jesus?

Doing a specific yoga pose and thinking it honors God is a mistake and I’m not one to judge or condemn. God is the judge. I’m not judging people if they practice yoga, I’m trying to warn them because I think it’s spiritually dangerous and I care about them. Other acts did not originate with nor are exclusive to yoga. So no, they do nothing wrong and are not condemned if in lifting their hands they resemble a yoga pose. Nobody should be overly paranoid and be afraid to move or stretch because they might accidentally do a yoga pose. I think the intention matters. Like a normal person doing the “okay” symbol does nothing wrong, but a celebrity deliberately signaling this “three sixes” symbol means it in the way the Bible says, as the number of the beast (see Revelation 13:18). They were told to do it to get ahead and accepted, whether they believe in the spiritual realm or not.

The Bible says one day Jesus will return and separate the sheep from the goats. Is a farmer owning a goat bad? No. Is eating goat cheese or drinking goat milk bad? No. Is using a goat in your music video because you are anti-God and worshiping Satan bad? Yes. It’s often (for them) a direct reference to Baphomet and not just a regular goat. God didn’t make bad things (goats are good), but people twist things in our fallen world (and we get things like Baphomet). They use the goat symbol and three sixes on purpose, in direct opposition to God. Many of them may even be ignorant of it, but the people that told them to do those things to get rich and famous are not ignorant but direct enemies of God. Jesus didn’t come to condemn, the world is already condemned. Jesus came to save (see John 3:17-18).

Jesus died on a cross, yet another symbol. Are crosses bad? No. Can a Satanist and a Christian use the same cross for different purposes? Yes. We use it for good, remembering the sacrifice Jesus made, and honor God. They turn it upside down and perform occult rituals, often breaking it or doing other things. Is prayer bad because Muslims or Hindus do it? No. We pray to God and not facing Mecca nor the sun. Is it bad to pray if you are facing the sun so you have to turn away from it? No. But it’s not done on purpose like they do it to their gods. So it’s not about legalistically following a set of rules nor about imposing limits, and sometimes not even about the symbols themselves but the people behind them using them for other purposes. Are pillars bad? No. We use them to hold up buildings and that’s good. However, the Bible condemns using “sacred pillars,” ones that were used to worship other gods. Yoga is not just stretching. It is doing poses that worship other gods. These gods are not real but a satanic deception. It’s spiritual warfare. Don’t give Satan an opening in your life.

Runningman · Oct 8, 2020

GodFoundMe said:

Breathing is not spiritually dangerous because God invented it, made us breathe, and all way before yoga. The specific yoga poses have “gods” and stories behind them that directly oppose God. Shiva is the “god” of destruction and there are warrior poses that people make that act out killing and destroying that most people are ignorant of. Just because people don’t know what they’re doing doesn’t excuse them, otherwise Jesus never would have prayed “forgive them father for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34) and God through Hosea wouldn’t have said “my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” (Hosea 4:6). When the Israelites committed idolatry, God time and again accused them of harlotry and infidelity. They were not faithful to God. What are Christians today doing by participating in a Hindu practice?

It’s not about placing limits on people. We can stretch in many different ways. Why yoga? Did you ever read about what happened to the bronze serpent staff that Moses used? The Israelites were complaining against God so he sent serpents that killed many until they repented. God had meant it for good when He told Moses to make it for the Israelites to look at and get healed from the snake bites (see Numbers 21:5-9). However, the people later started to turn that good thing God had made and used into a bad thing when they committed the sin of idolatry. They even named it Nehushtan! The object itself wasn’t bad, but what the people did with it was. Hezekiah did right in the sight of the Lord and destroyed it (see 2 Kings 18:1-4).

So one could argue that a snake can symbolize good or bad. Satan the serpent or besides the original purpose of the one Moses made, the medical community uses snakes. I don’t think it’s bad to ride in an ambulance with that symbol, though that symbol apparently has to do with a Greek god. We live in the world though we’re not of it and will naturally encounter these things. One can have a pet snake that is neither good nor bad. I actually like looking at them in the pet store and held a corn snake once (or most of it anyway, it only partially went up my arm). But who is using the symbols and why?

Food is not bad, but gluttony is. Is it posing limits on people if the Bible says not to be gluttonous? Look at the commandments given in Exodus and specifically what it says about idols. “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God…” (Exodus 20:5). It’s not just don’t make idols, but physically don’t bow down to them. The physical act and spiritual allegiance is involved in the act of bowing down to them. I don’t think a person that culturally gives someone in Asia a small bow or taking a bow after a performance is bad because these people are not worshiping anyone. It’s a polite human custom. It only becomes bad when you bow and join in with other people that ARE worshiping.

There is nothing wrong with lifting your hands in worship, breathing, nor even in sitting with your legs crossed just because people who do yoga do it. If you notice though, they add putting your thumb and index fingers together which not coincidentally is also the “three sixes” symbol occult practitioners use, and often a chant or mantra as they call it to integrate when they practice meditating. Their definition and way of “meditating” is not what God means when he says to meditate on His word day and night. We mean think about it, they mean clear your mind and become enlightened by opening your third eye and so on. Helena Blavatsky was another occultist that visited India and brought yoga back to America. The super popular Beatles got into it. Why are these things promoted and not Jesus?

Doing a specific yoga pose and thinking it honors God is a mistake and I’m not one to judge or condemn. God is the judge. I’m not judging people if they practice yoga, I’m trying to warn them because I think it’s spiritually dangerous and I care about them. Other acts did not originate with nor are exclusive to yoga. So no, they do nothing wrong and are not condemned if in lifting their hands they resemble a yoga pose. Nobody should be overly paranoid and be afraid to move or stretch because they might accidentally do a yoga pose. I think the intention matters. Like a normal person doing the “okay” symbol does nothing wrong, but a celebrity deliberately signaling this “three sixes” symbol means it in the way the Bible says, as the number of the beast (see Revelation 13:18). They were told to do it to get ahead and accepted, whether they believe in the spiritual realm or not.

The Bible says one day Jesus will return and separate the sheep from the goats. Is a farmer owning a goat bad? No. Is eating goat cheese or drinking goat milk bad? No. Is using a goat in your music video because you are anti-God and worshiping Satan bad? Yes. It’s often (for them) a direct reference to Baphomet and not just a regular goat. God didn’t make bad things (goats are good), but people twist things in our fallen world (and we get things like Baphomet). They use the goat symbol and three sixes on purpose, in direct opposition to God. Many of them may even be ignorant of it, but the people that told them to do those things to get rich and famous are not ignorant but direct enemies of God. Jesus didn’t come to condemn, the world is already condemned. Jesus came to save (see John 3:17-18).

Jesus died on a cross, yet another symbol. Are crosses bad? No. Can a Satanist and a Christian use the same cross for different purposes? Yes. We use it for good, remembering the sacrifice Jesus made, and honor God. They turn it upside down and perform occult rituals, often breaking it or doing other things. Is prayer bad because Muslims or Hindus do it? No. We pray to God and not facing Mecca nor the sun. Is it bad to pray if you are facing the sun so you have to turn away from it? No. But it’s not done on purpose like they do it to their gods. So it’s not about legalistically following a set of rules nor about imposing limits, and sometimes not even about the symbols themselves but the people behind them using them for other purposes. Are pillars bad? No. We use them to hold up buildings and that’s good. However, the Bible condemns using “sacred pillars,” ones that were used to worship other gods. Yoga is not just stretching. It is doing poses that worship other gods. These gods are not real but a satanic deception. It’s spiritual warfare. Don’t give Satan an opening in your life.

How ever our body can move within the limits of God's design is within the scope of his created purposes. God's design of the human body offers full range of motion: stretching, posing, bending, etc. He also gives people creative abilities to invent new ways to move. Those sorts of body movements are integral parts of physical fitness. If you don't move then no work is done and therefore no exercise is done.

Yes, lifting hands upwards in worship is invented by God. That's exactly my point, but if you are going to fully reject yoga then a consistent position is to also for you to reject lifting hands upwards.

Yes, breathing is invented by God too; that's my point. Yoga involves breathing exercises so you have to reject breathing to remain consistent.

You should now know that God made our bodies to be able to move and breath. You can't cherry pick what's acceptable from yoga. Either it all applies or it doesn't.

You give way too much power to the "gods" that are not even gods at all. They are non-gods, pure myth. They hold no actual power. I strongly feel that because they are not real then supplementing a point by mentioning them is a non-point.

If you feel you are worshipping non-existent false gods and idols by doing yoga then that's where it gets dangerous.

Otherwise yoga is just body movements and breathing. Each person should follow their convictions on it.

So I think we agree on several points, but disagree on the underlying theory.

GodFoundMe · Oct 8, 2020

Runningman said:

You are free to move by bowing your body, but as I said above that depends where and how you are doing it. We still cannot physically bow our bodies in the worship or seeming worship of idols because God commanded us not to. I think our basic disagreement lies in our underlying assumptions. I am claiming yoga is tied to the spiritual realm and you are claiming it is just a physical exercise. Based on that, I advise not participating and you, though you said you don’t do yoga, would seemingly be encouraging it in others either for the possible physical benefits or just to defend their right to out of principal to not set limits on people. Is that a correct assessment?

I’m not following your logic though about the lifting up your hands bit. It’s not inconsistent to reject that because as you said, God invented lifting our hands up. Even Moses did it in the Bible that time Aaron had to help hold up Moses’ arms till the Israelites won the battle. I’m not cherry-picking from yoga. Are you saying Hindus own lifting up your hands and breathing? No. So we’re saying the same thing here and can agree these things are from God and not Hindus.

By false “gods” that aren’t gods at all, even Paul when he said they are nothing said you can’t share the cup with devils. Basically, the “gods” don’t exist but Satan does. It’s a Satanic deception. Satan fell, got humanity to fall in the garden, and is still around attacking people with the other fallen angels aka demons that fell with him. He came to steal, kill, and destroy. He doesn’t actually need to do too much if non-believers are already sinning, but to enter and attack the church directly? Yoga, meditation, mysticism… All are present in some churches today.

You believe in God but do you not believe in demons? They were around in Jesus’ time and they’re still around today or there wouldn’t be deliverance ministries and such. I’d then ask are you cherry-picking from the Bible because demons make you uncomfortable or what made you think or conclude that demons are not real?

Runningman · Oct 8, 2020

GodFoundMe said:

At some point we are not even talking about the same thing. Exercise and idol worship are two entirely different things. Let exercise be exercise and idol worship be idol worship.

Worship involves some commitment on a spiritual level, drawing close with heart, mind, and soul to a real or perceived object.

Moving and breathing for the intent of exercise isn't idol worship.

I think the disconnect is that you're trying to connect two unrelated things and apply them to Christians. Body movements and breathing were appropriated into a false religion with non-existent false gods. Hinduism does not apply to Christians and never will.

Hindus represent their religion as having real deities. I am saying that those deities aren't real because there is only one God which is the Lord Almighty. Any other spiritual entities are not gods in the same sense that God is, but lesser beings entirely.

Demons and spiritual warfare are real things, but they aren't gods who get summoned out the blue to terrorize and possess people when they exercise.

Happy2020 · Oct 8, 2020

Runningman said:

At some point we are not even talking about the same thing. Exercise and idol worship are two entirely different things. Let exercise be exercise and idol worship be idol worship.

Worship involves some commitment on a spiritual level, drawing close with heart, mind, and soul to a real or perceived object.

Moving and breathing for the intent of exercise isn't idol worship.

I think the disconnect is that you're trying to connect two unrelated things and apply them to Christians. Body movements and breathing were appropriated into a false religion with non-existent false gods. Hinduism does not apply to Christians and never will.

Hindus represent their religion as having real deities. I am saying that those deities aren't real because there is only one God which is the Lord Almighty. Any other spiritual entities are not gods in the same sense that God is, but lesser beings entirely.

Demons and spiritual warfare are real things, but they aren't gods who get summoned out the blue to terrorize and possess people when they exercise.

Good stuff! Case closed? Time for popcorn?

GodFoundMe · Oct 10, 2020

Runningman said:

I’m glad you think demons and spiritual warfare are real, but I’m not sure what is stopping you from connecting them to yoga. Are you saying that yoga is only a Hindu practice if you are Hindu but if you are Christian then their beliefs behind the poses don’t apply to us? Even if that is what you are saying (correct me if I’m misunderstanding you there), then where does one draw the line in what constitutes participating in Hindu worship versus “just stretching”? There is a way that seems right to man but which leads to death. You (this is a general you, not you specifically as you admitted you don’t do yoga) are purchasing materials like books, DVDs, going to yoga centers/classes etcetera. Besides contributing financially to their organizations, you encourage others to participate as well. Perhaps you even invite them over to your house to join you for a yoga session? Yet, “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed” (2 John 1:10). If you try to call it Christian yoga, then is there anything you would not do? Are you going to do the warrior poses re-enacting a bloody beheading and claim it honors God? Are you going to chant the common mantra “om” which they think is sacred and used to connect to their Brahman “god”? Even though God says not to bow down to the sun, are you going to do the sun salutation poses?

“And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars- all the heavenly array – do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven” (Deuteronomy 4:19).
“and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky” (Deuteronomy 17:3).
“He then brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord, and there at the entrance to the temple, between the portico and the altar, were about twenty-five men. With their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, they were bowing down to the sun in the east” (Ezekiel 8:16).

Interesting to note that Muslims also bow down facing Mecca when they pray, another thing against the commands given to us in Scripture. Coincidence? I’ll come back to that idea. Our mind body and soul are connected. If you have epilepsy, strobing lights can cause a seizure. Whispering can cause an ASMR sensation. The goal of yoga and meditation is to manipulate “chakras” through “asanas” to join and become one with Brahman, an impersonal energy consciousness “god.” It’s essentially the lie of the garden that we too would be as gods if we ate the forbidden fruit. Many achieve an altered state of consciousness as if they were on LSD, weed, or high on some other drug. They enter strange trances, have weird uncontrollable movements, temporary or lasting insanity, bursts of anger, panic attacks, fear, depression, anxiety... If yoga is just exercise, then Ouija boards are just physical materials. My dad’s friend got thrown across the room when he played, so it’s more than that. Did you know there’s a “game” called Charlie Charlie where all you need is a pencil and paper and the “players” see if anybody answers? Just as “stretching” in general is nothing, a pencil and paper are nothing, but how are they being used? There are many passages against necromancy (talking with the dead), sorcery, witchcraft, etcetera. Here’s one:

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you” (Deuteronomy 18:9-12).

Demons and even the Holy Spirit working today can be a hard thing for people to believe, even for those of us that believe in God. I never really thought about it much before nor took it 100% seriously before my own experiences. Skeptical doubting Thomas or had no opinion, but I did believe in God so why did it surprise me to find supernatural stuff going on today? I was a psychology major so I even thought it might be suggestion. I looked these things up starting back about 8 years ago. I found out a lot of things and asked how do you know it’s from God? Compare everything to Scripture and test everything. That’s how I first found out about the Holy Spirit, the charismatic movement, and false “spirits,” aka demons that can only counterfeit the real thing. Both are present and act today.

These other religions don’t have true gods, but who is behind them? Many have commonalities and often a supernatural origin and/or influence. Did you know Muhammad foamed at the mouth and got thrown against the wall by the so-called “angel” Gabriel? Satan can present himself as an angel of light. Read parts of the Koran and other Muslim sources that record these and other things and see the red flags for possession. I don’t think Islam was a mere man-made religion, but that it was Satanically inspired. Helena Blavatsky and other occultists would “channel spirits” and use “automatic writing” when coming up with some of their doctrines like her and Theosophy. Again, compare what their writings say to what the Bible says and you’ll find many things in direct opposition to God and His word. It’s no coincidence (nor mere symbol) that Blavatsky used “Lucifer” in her writings and magazine.

Then there’s all these snakes involved. Satanist Anton Lavey is photographed with snakes, but he’s obviously in direct opposition to God. But what about those religions even before Christ? Like why are there snakes behind Buddha and Krishna statues and paintings? Serpents seem to often be involved and pop up when, since Genesis, God cursed the serpent/Satan. And did you know that in Acts 16:16, though most Bible translations say “spirit of divination” the Greek concordances and some translations say “python spirit”? Why do they use serpent imagery in kundalini yoga, with a snake coiled up in your spine? Too many serpents in these beliefs to think it’s all a coincidence.

These “gods” are not real, but Satan and demons are. They’re not “summoned out of the blue,” but people open the way for them to attack when we disobey God. We are to put our spiritual armor on and pray. Jesus went apart many times to pray. Prayer is not ineffective and also seems to have a spiritual realm aspect to it. “and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel” (Revelation 8:4). Though the way to life is narrow, God wishes everyone to be saved and is very patient with us. Yet there often comes a point where for each person or group He decides enough is enough. “My people do not understand…They have forsaken the Lord… Why will you continue to rebel? I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly… I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many payers, I will not listen… Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes…” (see Isaiah 1:3-5, 13-16). So is it “just stretching,” or is doing yoga actually participating in an occult Hindu practice whether one knows it or not? You may disagree, but I still believe it’s the latter.

GodFoundMe · Oct 10, 2020

For those of you that may be reading the thread and either don’t believe in the spiritual realm, demons, the Holy Spirit, or even God for that matter, what do you make of the following video? It shows something they call false “kundalini spirits” which are really demons and how they appear not only in other religions (Hindu yoga included) but have even entered some churches. The Holy Spirit is not like what happens in this video, so don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The fruit of the Spirit includes self-control and the Bible says be sober-minded. God does not contradict Scripture. Test everything. If you are easily scared, maybe don’t watch. But if you are skeptical, curious, and/or want to be shown the truth about these things then click play and maybe you’ll start to see that these ideas aren’t really that crazy and do a little more research for yourself.

Heed the warning. It’s not done to scare for God hasn’t given us a spirit of fear but instead the Holy Spirit which has the power to cast out demons. Don’t risk spiritual bondage by deliberately going against what God commands. Be ye separate. Don’t be unequally yoked. Don’t love the world. Don’t do as the pagan nations do. Do love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. If you love him, you will keep his commands. You cannot partake of the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. Do some more research for yourselves. On my Youtube channel I even have a few video links from other people under my “Supernatural” playlist that include speaking in tongues, a healing, a deliverance from demons, how prayer stopped a tornado, a guy who talks about his own experience with the “dark side of kundalini,” and even a few clips from Sufism and Hindu sects. If you watch the one about Cash Luna, you’ll see that there is a lady who told the false teacher that he could not control her mind and he gets mad that he couldn’t. God protects his discerning people, but the rest in the crowd that had itching ears? May God be patient with us as hopefully more people learn the truth about these things.

Runningman · Oct 10, 2020

Worshipping other gods requires intention. It isn't something that someone can accidentally do.

Ever stretched when you got out of bed first thing on the morning? A lot of people do. Are they worshipping demons when they touch their toes? Are they praising a sun god when they lift their arms to the sky? Absolutely not.

It doesn't mean someone is commiting spiritual adultery. I'm just trying to help people see that.

Worship requires intention. Jesus said "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24).

We learn from the Bible that worshipping God requires spirit and truth. So it is an intentional an deliberate action involving our spirit and truth. Jesus came to teach people the truth because the world was spiritually blind and lost.

“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up."
1 Corinthians 10:23

Paul states that all things are permissable, but not all things are helpful or build up. Then the next question to ask if exercise, even if it is yoga (which is really just strength and flexibility training), is helpful or builds up:

"She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong."
Proverbs 31:17

"For while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come."
1 Timothy 4:8

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20

"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
1 Corinthians 9:27

"Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul."
3 John 1:2

And many, many, more...

So being physically fit and in good health is both Permissable and Builds Up.

Good:

- God made people with the ability to move and breath.

- There are no express restrictions on body movements.

- Unless otherwise stated, all things are permissable.

- We can move and breath any way we want.

- In matters of worship, worship requires engaging ones spirit with that object.

- Doing yoga for the purpose of physical fitness, body training, weight loss, muscle strengthening is not forbidden but actually both permissable and builds up a person.

GodFoundMe · Oct 10, 2020

Yes, I agree. As we had already established some posts ago, nobody is worshiping demons by stretching to touch their toes, lifting their arms, or sitting cross-legged. Those are not the same thing as yoga, a Hindu practice.
Yes, worship God “in spirit” so not just physically and “in truth.” Do not be spiritually yoked with unbelievers. Are Hinduism and occultism the truth? No, therefore we cannot join nor mimic the pagan nations in how they worship.
“Take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise’” (Deuteronomy 12:30).

Let’s say that a person is a Christian with the Holy Spirit and, ignorant of the Hindu roots of yoga, practices it for years. Does that mean God approves or instead that He is merciful?
true_believer shared a link from Doreen Virtue that had a guest talk about just that. She is a Christian that practiced and taught yoga for years before becoming convicted and leaving it behind. For her it led to sleep paralysis and other spiritual warfare, even as a Christian. Not all people get possessed and as Christians if we are born again with the Holy Spirit I don’t think we can be possessed as God is more powerful than demons. However, we can get demonically oppressed and attacked as Christians.

And if we sin, who’s to say the Holy Spirit can’t leave us? God will not dwell with the unclean. If you recall, in the Bible when the ark was tipping over and a man without the proper sanctification Levite rituals straightened it, he died as soon as he touched it. God is holy. If he finds idolatry abominable, why would he be okay with people disobeying Him and doing yoga anyway? Despite all the souls lost to the movement because it does not have the truth in it. Thou shalt not lie, so why participate in lies? We know there is no truth in the other faiths. Jesus is the only way to God.

How does yoga build up? We can stretch or exercise (together or alone) in any other way. Jogging, basketball, step aerobics, almost anything other than yoga. Yoga leads more people to be spiritually lost in the New Age, occult, or Hindu false beliefs instead of pointing them toward Christ. By participating we are participating in their destruction rather than building them up and showing them the truth in Christ. The New Age actually believes in a false Christ consciousness where we are like mini gods. The world is spiritually blind and lost now and yoga does not help.

Physical fitness is good, but as you quoted only “of some value” or in another translation it only “profits a little” whereas “godliness is profitable for all things” and therefore superior (see 1 Timothy 4:8). In our list of priorities, including love God and love your neighbor, godliness, being Christ-like, that’s our goal. Nobody is holy or good but God, but it’s what we strive for.

Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, which again cannot dwell with sin. So if we deliberately sin, what happens to the Spirit in us? “Do not quench the Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:19).

Can we glorify God in our body if we are using it deliberately as the pagans do? Can you teach yourself yoga without first learning it from someone else? No. Each person learned it from somebody else. Do not inquire after pagan nations, yet people inquire of them how do you worship your Hindu gods? Oh well I’m going to do the same but call it Christian. Or nah, I’ll just copy your poses but ignore the other things you’re saying/teaching. You’re still inquiring how they do it and copying it, bowing down etc. Invent your own stretches, or pick another way to stretch that is not specifically yoga which is Hindu/occult/New Age. “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness” (Isaiah 5:20).

By all means, discipline the body and keep it under control by not being gluttonous, lustful, drunk, violent, etcetera. Add also by denying yourself and not practicing yoga. Did you read the passage I shared from Isaiah 1? God turned away his ears when he got tired of the Israelites for not being faithful to Him.

“For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come” (1 Timothy 4:8).

No express restrictions? What about not bowing to idols? There are some restrictions, so we can’t move and breathe any way we want. The flesh and pride may say as the world and even Satanists say, “do as thou wilt.” They do whatever they want, and God will judge those outside, not us. For believers though, God says to do His will. “Instead you ought to say, ‘If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that’” (James 4:15).

The Bible says build each other up, strengthen and encourage one another. Not build up your muscles. And it doesn’t mean physical strength. It means in our trials, comfort others going through the same. It means equip your brothers and sisters with the Word, Spirit, and courage to go be bold for the Lord and share the gospel. Not be vain and build up your physical body which almost doesn’t even matter in the grand scheme of things. Physical health is one thing, body building is another. We should be looking out for each other and that includes in spiritual matters because the devil is roaming around seeking who to devour (see 1 Peter 5:8).

So in order to build up your own body, it’s okay to forsake the souls of countless others? Do you not care about them? It seems you are a caring person to be defending what you believe is one of our freedoms in Christ, but yoga does not profit or build up. You are forgetting and risking your neighbor. You have not watched the kundalini link and seem to have skipped over many of my previous points. Christians can also be demonically oppressed, so how is that building up? That’s allowing the devil in to steal, kill, and destroy. Kill because some become suicidal after opening up their “third eye.” I don’t think exercise is worth that risk.

If you’re reading this, maybe God is trying to reach your heart and see if you value Him above everything, including yoga. Have you made yoga into an idol? Seek Him first and everything else will follow. He can lead you to a safer and better way to exercise. It doesn’t have to be yoga.

“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves” (Philippians 2:3).

Runningman · Oct 10, 2020

GodFoundMe said:

In post #51 you attempted to link the semblance of the "sun salutation pose" to idolatry by referencing Deuteronomy 4:19. I am saying that when someone stretches, though it may look visually similar to something one might see in yoga, it isn't actually the same thing unless that is what the person intended. Yoga does not maintain a monopoly on stretches and poses.

"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,"
Colossians 3:23

Whatever we do should be done with some heart-consciousness of God, even exercise.

The Deuteronomy 12:30 verse you mentioned would require someone getting ensnared into Hinduism and then inquiring about how to do yoga to worship their gods. Again, it would need to be an intentional and deliberate action. If someone is a Christian they aren't going to be worshipping another god.

While what you are saying might be true for one individual, I think it's more like anti-yoga propaganda. It's kind of what people do: find one isolated incident and then put it on a pedestal and scream about it real loud so everyone pays attention. It's called a strawman argument and doesn't actually prove that yoga is demonic. It's an effective way to push an agenda, but we are just going to look at what the Bible actually says.

By the way, all Christians have the Holy Spirit, once forever and always:

13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:13-14

Again, the Holy Spirit does not leave believers unless you are saying that people can lose their salvation. That is an entirely different discussion. Christians do occasionally sin, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little, but they still sin. After having believed in the once and for all, "It is finished," sacrifice of Christ. People should use confession to God if they sin, but the Holy Spirit does not leave a Christian. Where does it say in the Bible the Holy Spirit leaves a believer if they sin?

13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:13

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified."
Hebrews 10:14

Yoga is actually just strength and flexibility training as long as it isn't used in conjunction with Hinduism - and yes they can be separated. What makes it useful for upbuilding is that there are progressing levels of difficulty that allow for advancement. Gradually, people get stronger and more flexible.

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30

The Bible says that believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Doing yoga is not bowing to an idol. Maybe avoid yoga gyms with a large golden calf statue at the front of the studio.

Many verses are vague enough to give the Christian enough creative room to decide how they are going to glorify God in their body, how to be healthy, how to physically train their body. Strength and flexibility training is good for the body and can help Christians more effectively honor God in their work for Him.

No it is not okay to forsake the souls of others, but I think we disagree that in doing yoga as an exercise that that is what is happening. If that is happening then Christians should make concessions for those weaker in the faith, at first, until they have the same talk we are having now and their faith is built up to not be offended.

I am also not trying to really skip over anything. I am trying to address the points I think are most important. If there is anything else you want to say or think I should clarify then I will gladly do that.

GodFoundMe · Oct 14, 2020

It’s not just one pose, but a sequence of sun salutation poses. I agree with you that a stretch one does that may seem similar to (or may even unknowingly match) a yoga pose isn’t the same thing as a person intentionally doing yoga. Some people are worshiping while doing yoga. Why should a Christian join them? Why learn a sequence of steps originally intended to worship false gods if we believe there is only one God?

In Isaiah 1 the people were sacrificing animals, but God would not hear them. He knows our hearts and minds and desires to be loved and worshiped with all our heart, soul, mind, and body. Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and our God is a jealous God. Even if a person tried to use yoga to worship God, would He like that? Or prefer we find something else because He never asked this of us.

A true born-again Christian would not be worshiping other Gods, but those that go out from us that were never from us are getting ensnared. How many people are just going though the motions in church but are spiritually lost? They have head knowledge but aren’t applying or truly believing it and God is not in their hearts? Some churches offer yoga classes. For those, instead of hearing the gospel, they go into the New Age, Islam, Buddhism, or whatever beliefs satisfy their itching ears. Yoga might profit a little in your own body, but saving faith comes by hearing the gospel. A potential new believer that likes how yoga feels often only goes deeper into the New Age or occult beliefs. Yoga does not point toward Christ.

A straw man argument is when you misrepresent what the other person is saying, knock it down seemingly “winning,” but your opponent never actually said that. I’ve felt that when in this post and above I agree with you on certain points and say “yes, I agree. It’s not that” but you re-state it later as if I said it and I thought we’d settled that… I don’t think you’re doing it on purpose, or I give you the benefit of the doubt and hope not…

If you believe I did that anywhere then forgive me and point it out, but in this case I don’t see it. In that Doreen Virtue video it is one individual, but if you research it there are many. Often people who were into yoga and New Age for years. Nothing really “proves” something, but instead shows evidence for a position. If there’s enough evidence, then it’s time to revise your hypothesis. The kundalini video shows many people reacting to the spiritual realm in not only Hindu yoga gatherings but also at Christian churches. What do you think is happening there? More propaganda? I think he cares about people enough to try to warn them, though we shouldn’t think that there’s only evil “spirits” and throw the Holy Spirit out the window as well.

And thank you for clarifying that about the Holy Spirit. You helped me come to a new understanding and I actually spent a while reading about it. Some translations use words like “pledge, earnest, down payment, or first installment” while others like the verse you shared say “guarantee” and I spent some time thinking about it and this concept of being “sealed” with the Holy Spirit. Actually the verse after the one you shared adds to the seal part “guarantee” in Ephesians 1:14. God also chose to have it highlighted for me in other places as well, and one person randomly shared 2 Corinthians 5:5. If I didn’t believe in God I’d think it was a crazy coincidence, but I know God works all things for the good of them that love Him and that in His sovereignty He is working in everything. Even here.

How that applies to yoga, then I’d revise and say a born-again believer would not lose the Holy Spirit they were sealed with, but they could still quench it and stop it from working in their life and the lives of others. We can walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16), pray in the Spirit (Ephesians 6:18), be filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4)… So the reverse should be true as well, that we are not walking, praying nor being filled with it. If yoga were just a physical exercise, then like you said it wouldn’t matter. If people are spiritually misled into false doctrines and some people are demonically oppressed and attacked (non-believers even possessed), then that is bad fruit to say the least. We fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness in this world.

Yoga builds the physical body, but not the spiritual Christian body which is what the passages mean because our physical body is of less value. Glad we can agree for Christians not to go to yoga studios with pagan statues, but again there should be discernment in buying yoga DVDs, books, magazines etc that promote the New Age or Hindu beliefs that often accompany yoga and even in finding a yoga teacher. Contributing financially to them is participating in them.

Meditation and yoga have entered schools and the workers themselves say they don’t like to call it “meditation” or “yoga” because they could get backlash from parents. Instead, they often just call it “being mindful” or “stretching” and give the poses cute names for the kids. Getting them into spiritual practices with Hindu roots while they are young, yet not allowing Creationism to be taught in schools seems like a double standard. Who is behind the promotion of one but negation of the other? I don’t think it’s a coincidence that yoga is so popular today and anybody that speaks against it is criticized, attacked, mocked, hated, or scoffed at.

They have introduced yoga into schools as merely an exercise, but do you think that won’t have repercussions on all of those children who one day will grow up and without a firm foundation in Christ be carried away by another doctrine or gospel into these New Age, Hindu, or occult beliefs? Parents should be training up their child in the way they should go, but how many parents don’t even check their kid’s homework? How many were raised in Christian homes and yet don’t attend church? How many were raised without a faith, without any hope in the world, until they find something to cling to and they think that meditation/yoga/Eastern religions are the answer instead of Jesus? Even the adults can get involved in the programs and many do. Many people are lost and they’re seeking in the wrong places. I don’t see good fruit there.

Thank you, I try to do the same. The parts you seem to have mainly skipped over are the ones having to do with the supernatural, symbols, demons, occult, other religions, etcetera. Perhaps it’s because you have not seen or experienced anything about those. I know I try not to speak on things I don’t know about and admit I don’t know. That would at least clarify if that’s why you skipped over those or do let me know what you think about those and then maybe I’ll have a better understanding of where you’re coming from as well. You said you do believe in demons and spiritual warfare, yet you don’t connect them to yoga. Did you see the kundalini video?

Runningman · Oct 14, 2020

GodFoundMe said:

It’s not just one pose, but a sequence of sun salutation poses. I agree with you that a stretch one does that may seem similar to (or may even unknowingly match) a yoga pose isn’t the same thing as a person intentionally doing yoga. Some people are worshiping while doing yoga. Why should a Christian join them? Why learn a sequence of steps originally intended to worship false gods if we believe there is only one God?

In Isaiah 1 the people were sacrificing animals, but God would not hear them. He knows our hearts and minds and desires to be loved and worshiped with all our heart, soul, mind, and body. Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and our God is a jealous God. Even if a person tried to use yoga to worship God, would He like that? Or prefer we find something else because He never asked this of us.

A true born-again Christian would not be worshiping other Gods, but those that go out from us that were never from us are getting ensnared. How many people are just going though the motions in church but are spiritually lost? They have head knowledge but aren’t applying or truly believing it and God is not in their hearts? Some churches offer yoga classes. For those, instead of hearing the gospel, they go into the New Age, Islam, Buddhism, or whatever beliefs satisfy their itching ears. Yoga might profit a little in your own body, but saving faith comes by hearing the gospel. A potential new believer that likes how yoga feels often only goes deeper into the New Age or occult beliefs. Yoga does not point toward Christ.

A straw man argument is when you misrepresent what the other person is saying, knock it down seemingly “winning,” but your opponent never actually said that. I’ve felt that when in this post and above I agree with you on certain points and say “yes, I agree. It’s not that” but you re-state it later as if I said it and I thought we’d settled that… I don’t think you’re doing it on purpose, or I give you the benefit of the doubt and hope not…

If you believe I did that anywhere then forgive me and point it out, but in this case I don’t see it. In that Doreen Virtue video it is one individual, but if you research it there are many. Often people who were into yoga and New Age for years. Nothing really “proves” something, but instead shows evidence for a position. If there’s enough evidence, then it’s time to revise your hypothesis. The kundalini video shows many people reacting to the spiritual realm in not only Hindu yoga gatherings but also at Christian churches. What do you think is happening there? More propaganda? I think he cares about people enough to try to warn them, though we shouldn’t think that there’s only evil “spirits” and throw the Holy Spirit out the window as well.

And thank you for clarifying that about the Holy Spirit. You helped me come to a new understanding and I actually spent a while reading about it. Some translations use words like “pledge, earnest, down payment, or first installment” while others like the verse you shared say “guarantee” and I spent some time thinking about it and this concept of being “sealed” with the Holy Spirit. Actually the verse after the one you shared adds to the seal part “guarantee” in Ephesians 1:14. God also chose to have it highlighted for me in other places as well, and one person randomly shared 2 Corinthians 5:5. If I didn’t believe in God I’d think it was a crazy coincidence, but I know God works all things for the good of them that love Him and that in His sovereignty He is working in everything. Even here.

How that applies to yoga, then I’d revise and say a born-again believer would not lose the Holy Spirit they were sealed with, but they could still quench it and stop it from working in their life and the lives of others. We can walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16), pray in the Spirit (Ephesians 6:18), be filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4)… So the reverse should be true as well, that we are not walking, praying nor being filled with it. If yoga were just a physical exercise, then like you said it wouldn’t matter. If people are spiritually misled into false doctrines and some people are demonically oppressed and attacked (non-believers even possessed), then that is bad fruit to say the least. We fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness in this world.

Yoga builds the physical body, but not the spiritual Christian body which is what the passages mean because our physical body is of less value. Glad we can agree for Christians not to go to yoga studios with pagan statues, but again there should be discernment in buying yoga DVDs, books, magazines etc that promote the New Age or Hindu beliefs that often accompany yoga and even in finding a yoga teacher. Contributing financially to them is participating in them.

Meditation and yoga have entered schools and the workers themselves say they don’t like to call it “meditation” or “yoga” because they could get backlash from parents. Instead, they often just call it “being mindful” or “stretching” and give the poses cute names for the kids. Getting them into spiritual practices with Hindu roots while they are young, yet not allowing Creationism to be taught in schools seems like a double standard. Who is behind the promotion of one but negation of the other? I don’t think it’s a coincidence that yoga is so popular today and anybody that speaks against it is criticized, attacked, mocked, hated, or scoffed at.

They have introduced yoga into schools as merely an exercise, but do you think that won’t have repercussions on all of those children who one day will grow up and without a firm foundation in Christ be carried away by another doctrine or gospel into these New Age, Hindu, or occult beliefs? Parents should be training up their child in the way they should go, but how many parents don’t even check their kid’s homework? How many were raised in Christian homes and yet don’t attend church? How many were raised without a faith, without any hope in the world, until they find something to cling to and they think that meditation/yoga/Eastern religions are the answer instead of Jesus? Even the adults can get involved in the programs and many do. Many people are lost and they’re seeking in the wrong places. I don’t see good fruit there.

Thank you, I try to do the same. The parts you seem to have mainly skipped over are the ones having to do with the supernatural, symbols, demons, occult, other religions, etcetera. Perhaps it’s because you have not seen or experienced anything about those. I know I try not to speak on things I don’t know about and admit I don’t know. That would at least clarify if that’s why you skipped over those or do let me know what you think about those and then maybe I’ll have a better understanding of where you’re coming from as well. You said you do believe in demons and spiritual warfare, yet you don’t connect them to yoga. Did you see the kundalini video?

I do have extensive experience with the supernatural.

What I have been trying to tell you is that yoga is just a name they are giving to it and that it's perceived power comes from power it is assigned. I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree that people have freedom to exercise any way they want to. I do appreciate you discussing it with me. I hope you didn't perceive it as an attack or being mocked because you hold an anti-yoga position.

I honestly don't think it's wrong at all for you to be overwhelmingly opposed to yoga or even the appearance of yoga.

What I do have a problem with is when others are wrongly condemned for doing yoga exercises then I'll speak up every single time even if I am standing alone.

I watched some of the kundalini video, but not all of it. I didn't find it helpful. What did you want me to learn from the video?

We don't know how someone is going to turn out. We don't know if someone will get ensnared by false teachings or if they will eventually come to Christ or if they never will at all. We don't know the decisions people will make. I don't worry about things like that.

If you want to get away from anti-Christian influences then you'll have to leave Earth. All anyone who is a Christian can hope to do is equip people with wisdom and discernment to make good decisions.

GodFoundMe · Oct 17, 2020

Ouija boards, tarot cards, and even the pencil and paper for the Charlie Charlie game are just objects, but when people use them for things God calls abominations like trying to talk to dead spirits, I do think demons can get attached to objects/places. Demons interact with people and objects. Yoga isn’t anything by itself. It goes back to whether we believe it’s just a physical exercise or that it’s tied to the spiritual realm because of its origin and nature.

No, though some people do scoff/ridicule etc, I didn’t feel attacked or mocked. I’m glad you appreciate the discussion as well. Not everyone is willing to engage with someone that holds a view opposite to them, let alone do it so politely. Vain arguments don’t profit anything, but in open discussions one or both sides can always learn something, or at least broaden their view of the opposing perspective. Things aren’t always as simple, black or white, but instead often gray, or colorful depending on how you look at it.

I’m not condemning anyone for doing yoga, only trying to warn people of the possible dangers and consequences. The world is already condemned and God’s the one that saves through Jesus. “The crucible is for silver, and the furnace for gold, but the tester of hearts is the Lord” (Proverbs 17:3). Nobody but God knows our hearts. A person could look fabulous on the outside but inside be a white-washed tomb like the Pharisees. Another person could look terrible to others and yet that’s the lost sheep that Jesus left the 99 for. We don’t know.

We can hate or dislike smoking and cigarettes without hating the person that smokes. We can lovingly try to warn them that smoking affects your lungs and they could get cancer, but it’s up to each person whether they decide to quit or not. Will everybody that smokes get cancer? No. But some do. That is what I’m saying. Will everybody that does yoga have spiritual consequences like getting demonically oppressed or attacked? No, but some do. Maybe it depends how often you do it, whether it becomes an idol or not, which version of yoga the person does, the person’s relationship with God and whether they are born-again or not, etcetera. If there is any risk though, is that worth it? For the individual or the other souls that are steered toward Eastern religions including Hinduism or Buddhism, New Age Christ-consciousness “we are all gods” beliefs, or even occult beliefs like Theosophy and following Lucifer for some.

The video shows how what they refer to as “kundalini spirits” are found also in followers of other Eastern religions when they meditate and do yoga. Why do they experience those things? I found some non-propaganda clips from the yoga practitioners themselves that warn against the dangers of a “kundalini awakening,” so it’s not just Christians that warn about being careful. Why do they need to warn people if yoga/meditating are good? And why should Christians copy Hindu yoga poses to stretch? Instead, be “imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises” (Hebrews 6:12). Is it just that Christians should avoid the kundalini branch of yoga and do another type? Can it really be separated from the Hindu beliefs? Or why do some like the Christian in Doreen Virtue’s video say that they practiced it without believing or thinking it was anything other than stretching and yet they experienced demonic oppression or attacks? Then it can’t just be a matter of whether you believe/perceive it to be wrong or not because she and others never thought it was wrong to practice yoga/meditation when they were doing it.

You’re right that we don’t know how individuals will turn out and if they’ll get misled into other doctrines or if they do, whether they’ll return like the prodigal son or not. All we can do is plant seeds and if they have ears to hear, they were planted on good soil and God makes them grow. If they don’t have ears to hear, then at least we did our part and they heard about Jesus. I don’t think yoga helps point people to Jesus, but leads more people away from him.

We can’t escape anti-Christian influences, but training them up the way they should go includes reading Scripture that will help them discern. It’s not people that convict people, but God that convicts people through the Spirit. Nobody can call Jesus Lord unless it’s through the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12:3). Paul was killing Christians until Jesus appeared to him on the way to Damascus. A person could be doing something for years, like that ex-yoga teacher in the clip, and yet God will eventually convict them. We all fall short of the glory of God and our sanctification is a process. God convicts us all of things, but He often uses people and things as His instruments to accomplish that. Ananias was the one that God used to take the scales off Paul’s eyes and heal his temporary blindness.

For us believers, you can read Scripture, hear it in church through a pastor, have a friend share something that was on their heart or seemingly random but it was meant for you, have your prayer answered, see it in a documentary or any number of ways before something hits you and that’s because God wanted it to. We can see without seeing or hear without hearing and then one day understand what God had been trying to tell us or something He had not yet revealed to us. It’s all on His timing, but we should all be seeking God and His truth first. Ask and you will receive. Seek to do His will, not ours. He’ll show us.

“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved” (Ephesians 2:1-5).

So am I saying if someone does yoga that they are condemned? No. I am saying I’ve tried to warn them in love and concern, but ultimately the decision will be up to them. There is nothing I can say or do to convince anyone. It’s God that will lead each person to their conclusion and hopefully it works out. I personally would not risk myself or others by participating and anybody can ask me why and perhaps that becomes an opportunity to share about Jesus?

After the fall, the world became corrupt. Jesus died for us when we were still sinners, but rose again and reconciled us to God. If we repent and believe in him, our sins are forgiven and we can have eternal life. All of that is part of the gospel and the basics of what Christians should be able to agree on no matter what denomination or non-denomination they come from or what other beliefs they have about other things. This is where we get our unity, that we all believe in Christ and we can rejoice in that.

However, as different parts of the body have different functions we will each go about our walk differently. If you are choosing to focus on our freedom in Christ, that is good. We will just have to agree to disagree about what we can/can’t do within that freedom. Like Paul said, are we free to sin then? No. But what is a sin and what isn’t? Christians will disagree about various things there and this is just one of them. That’s why it’s so important to look at the context of the Scripture, not just a verse in isolation which can then be misinterpreted and lead to false teachings. Some people twist them on purpose, while for others it’s accidental but happens.

I think yoga is an important topic because it can have terrible consequences, the most terrible being that a person could be misled away from God and salvation in Jesus. Yet you and others believe it’s just stretching. It might depend on a lot of factors. However, should we follow the desires of our minds and bodies and live in the flesh to gratify ourselves, in this case build our physical body, regardless of the spiritual cost to others? Or should we deny ourselves for the sake of building up the spiritual body of believers and loving our neighbor by instead sharing Christ? Is yoga just stretching or are there in fact spiritual consequences for people? The individual can decide for themselves what they think and whether they think it’s worth it or not.

“Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you” (1 Timothy 4:16).
“What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, ‘I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people’” (2 Corinthians 6:16).
“But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the Spirit. Keep yourselves in the love of God and wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life” (Jude 1:20-21).

Runningman · Oct 17, 2020

Body exercise is body exercise. Spirituality is spirituality. They are entirely separate and the Bible exhaustively makes every effort to distinguish the material world from the unseen world of the spirit realm.

I think we agree on your final conclusion that it's up to the individual to decide if yoga exercises are a stumbling block to themselves or others.

You are right that all we do should be done with love. We also can have wisdom and discernment - if we have something that our brother or sister needs and do not do the things necessary to equip them then we've done them a disservice. Not doing the right thing when we should have can be a sin. You may recall the story of the good Samaritan.

If our way of building others up is giving them a long checklist of things they can't do, micromanaging the list down to which body movements they can perform, someone has effectively been brought under the yoke of control with the Bible being used as an appeal to authority. With the listeners being afraid God is looking down on them with furrowed brow because they stretched the wrong way. It's more important to prevent that than to give people egg shells and thin ice to walk on.

I also think you should look into religious symbols in art, icons, music, literature, gestures, postures, and vocal sounds. You'll find that nearly everything has been used for some other purpose, besides Christian purposes, through time.

There are a cornucopia of postures and gestures that may be loosely or closely affiliated with various religions and faiths. Again, the material and spiritual world separable. It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles someone, but what comes out of their heart. Does that make sense?

Anyway, yes just ping me if you feel like there is anything else to talk about. I wager you have enough material and ideas to write a book on this subject.

GodFoundMe · Oct 22, 2020

Runningman said:

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that the Bible distinguishes between the unseen spirit realm and the material world. It seems connected to me when we read about how we wrestle not against physical flesh and blood but against spiritual powers of darkness (Ephesians 6:12), when Paul encountered Jesus on the way to Damascus and physically fell and became blind like he’d been spiritually fallen and blind (see Acts 9), how Paul’s blindness wasn’t healed until Ananias physically laid his hands on him (still Acts 9), or when if you physically eat the body or drink unworthily you eat and drink spiritual judgment on yourself (1 Corinthians 11:27-29).

There’s an encounter with an evil spirit in the Bible where Jesus casts out a demon that had been causing a boy to physically convulse, foam at the mouth, gnash his teeth, become rigid, and caused the boy to be deaf and mute. The disciples couldn’t cast it out and asked Jesus why, to which Jesus answered that it had to be done with prayer and fasting (Mark 9:14-29). The spiritual realm can affect the material world and we by praying and fasting can also affect the spiritual realm.

The Holy Spirit that cannot be seen is also connected to the physical world by laying physical hands on people. “Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you” (1 Timothy 4:14). “And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying” (Acts 19:6). Jesus “laid his hands on every one of them and healed them” (Luke 4:40).

The physical and spiritual are connected even in the Old Testament. “And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands on him” (Deuteronomy 34:9). Moses, a physical man, was used by God to complete the miracles. People could see the physical miracles caused by spiritual means as God caused water to come out of the rock, the Red sea to part, and so on. Moses just had to physically tap on the rock for the water or lift up his rod and stretch out his hand for God to then part the sea. When there was a physical battle going on, Aaron had to help keep Moses’ arms raised so that God would grant them the victory. Physical connected to the spiritual.

Yes, I don’t think it’s good to micromanage nor set our own list of rules people have to follow. God convicts each believer in their walk, but the Bible does say to use Scripture to correct, warn, exhort, etcetera. Many might not know. Years ago, I certainly didn’t know God thought magic, fortune telling, astrology, or talking to ghosts was an abomination to God. It’s presented so innocently in popular culture, but God’s word is clear. We are to inquire of God and not go seeking those things which he hates.

Again, it’s not about legalism and a list of do’s and don’ts but about how much you love God. When you love God, you seek to do His will. You’re not cowering in fear because you might accidentally sin. Then we’d never do anything. We’re walking in faith by God’s side as his children and if we happen to sin we repent as soon as God helps us realize it. We should never be afraid of accidentally sinning.

Posing your body a particular way is not yoga. Yoga involves a series of poses done on purpose, that somebody taught you, and originally were and fundamentally still are Hindu. Some poses, like sitting cross-legged, are not just done in yoga but outside it. For example, kindergarten classrooms have kids sit cross-legged and that is not yoga. However, some classroom teachers are directly showing their kids yoga poses and even have yoga mats and that is doing yoga.

There are people today that still follow the Torah law and claim to be Christians, but in the Bible that has already been discarded because then we’d be guilty of the whole law and under the old yoke and covenant again. After Christ we are under a new covenant. But in that freedom it’s still not a license to sin. Is it a yoke of control to say a Christian cannot get drunk when the Bible says not to? Drinking is permissible, but drunkenness is not.

You’re right that many symbols are used by various groups for different purposes. And there are even differences between different cultures or subcultures. For one your thumb between your fingers is the “got your nose” gesture, for another it’s the ASL letter “t” sign, for another it’s an insult, and to another it’s used to signal getting a tissue in the classroom.

Nothing spiritual in those cases by the way, just agreeing that symbols can have different meanings for different groups. But I’d add that not all of those are innocent. And if you travel and want to avoid problems, you have to be careful not to use, say, or do certain things that are offensive in that culture even though those things mean nothing or something else to you.

Some postures and gestures are done with spiritual purposes, but they may or may not be effective in achieving those purposes. There is still that intention behind them though and it may have a spiritual effect. Yoga is the same. It was invented or created to worship Hindu gods and whether that can be separated from the original intent or not, I’d say not and wouldn’t risk it.

The verse you quoted (what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart and defiles a person), in context, refers to what Jesus was saying to and about the Pharisees. Rather than focus on what you can and cannot eat or whether you can or can’t wash your hands like the Pharisees did, they should’ve been focusing on honoring God and his commandments rather than human tradition. And out of the mouth come things that show what’s in their heart, like evil thoughts, immorality, lies etc (see Matthew 15:1-20). When Peter and the Jews were struggling with eating what they considered unclean and allowing the Gentiles in, God showed them that they couldn’t call unclean what God had made clean and with thanksgiving should eat it. Also that the Gentiles, when everyone saw them speaking in tongues and baptized with the same Holy Spirit, could not be denied a formal water baptism. For all of that see Acts 10.

So with that context, I’m not sure how you are connecting the mouth defiling quote to the symbols. Please do elaborate on your thought process and explain how you are connecting them.

A book eh? I’ll take that as a compliment haha I do tend to write a lot, but they’re just ideas that come up as we go. “Do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour” (Matthew 10:19). The Holy Spirit also will “bring all things to your remembrance” (John 14:26). I honestly have kept thinking from early on that we’d be wrapping up because what else is there to possibly say and then it just keeps going. I think the person that mentioned the popcorn thought that too and they may have already checked out. I again think we’re almost done now, but you may surprise me again with another reply that continues the thread. It’s certainly the longest conversation I’ve ever had on here so far, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Though it seems unrelated and other topics come up as well, knowing everything works for the good of those that love God, I can’t help but think it serves some purpose. At the very least to plant a seed and get people thinking. Even if it’s only for one person, and even if it were just me, it’s still beneficial. Like I said, you already helped me come to a new understanding about the Holy Spirit which God confirmed elsewhere. That’s not related to yoga, but still beneficial and upbuilding. Things that happen as God says where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name, He is there (Matthew 18:20).

Yoga is Dangerous to Christianity

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