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Posted on: March 3rd, 2011 by you,
'I'm fine with YOU having your opinion, just as I'm fine with a person who thinks blacks and whites shouldn't marry having their opinion. But your opinion should not become a law that blocks my roommate from falling in love and marrying someone he wants to marry. And no, it's not pedophilia or beastiality. It's an adult consensual relationship that, yes, is based on love. I don't honestly care if you think it's sinful. I don't. So let's agree to disagree. But religion + law = no bueno. I'm a Quaker, we (groups of us) believe that gay marriage is perfectly fine. A law blocking gay marriage discriminated us, many Jews, Universalists, United Church of Christ, some Methodists, some Lutherans, Buddhists, some Native American faiths, most Neo-Pagans, who all accept and WANT to perform religious marriage ceremonies for gays.. This isn't a "Christian issue." It's an American issue. Believing it is sinful is one thing, but forcing your religion upon people by law is wrong. As far as religion goes, it's not, but as an American citizen you should be able to see why it's so wrong for you to do so.
But also, I pose this question.... So it's okay for a man and a woman who don't love each other to get married, but it's not okay for a woman and woman who REALLY do love each other to get married. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of the first..."
Your comparing homosexuals' "rights" to get married to blacks and whites rights to get married is a dead giveaway -- you are NOT okay with God: the Holy Spirit would teach you differently -- you do NOT know God; you are deceived.
NOT ALL QUAKERS believe in gay marriage: tell the WHOLE truth; not just PART of the truth.
"For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4
"...understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane... for the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality... and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine," 1 Ti 1:9
"They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work." Titus 1:16
You profess you know God, but your words betray your true state: you profess Him with your mouth, and with your works you deny Him -- your condemnation has been marked out long ago.
'I'm fine with YOU having your opinion, just as I'm fine with a person who thinks blacks and whites shouldn't marry having their opinion. But your opinion should not become a law that blocks my roommate from falling in love and marrying someone he wants to marry. And no, it's not pedophilia or beastiality. It's an adult consensual relationship that, yes, is based on love. I don't honestly care if you think it's sinful. I don't. So let's agree to disagree. But religion + law = no bueno. I'm a Quaker, we (groups of us) believe that gay marriage is perfectly fine. A law blocking gay marriage discriminated us, many Jews, Universalists, United Church of Christ, some Methodists, some Lutherans, Buddhists, some Native American faiths, most Neo-Pagans, who all accept and WANT to perform religious marriage ceremonies for gays.. This isn't a "Christian issue." It's an American issue. Believing it is sinful is one thing, but forcing your religion upon people by law is wrong. As far as religion goes, it's not, but as an American citizen you should be able to see why it's so wrong for you to do so.
But also, I pose this question.... So it's okay for a man and a woman who don't love each other to get married, but it's not okay for a woman and woman who REALLY do love each other to get married. I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of the first..."
Your comparing homosexuals' "rights" to get married to blacks and whites rights to get married is a dead giveaway -- you are NOT okay with God: the Holy Spirit would teach you differently -- you do NOT know God; you are deceived.
NOT ALL QUAKERS believe in gay marriage: tell the WHOLE truth; not just PART of the truth.
"For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." Jude 1:4
"...understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane... for the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality... and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine," 1 Ti 1:9
"They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work." Titus 1:16
You profess you know God, but your words betray your true state: you profess Him with your mouth, and with your works you deny Him -- your condemnation has been marked out long ago.
You're one of the people that made me want to deny being a Christian for so long. I'm FINE with Jesus, it's people i can't stand. Only He knows what's in my heart, so back off me. And clearly you're an uneducated child who can't read b/c if you READ MY POST I never said ALL Quakers believe that, it says "groups of us" in parenthesis. You can believe whatever you want, I do not care. But religion SHOULD NOT BE LAW. I don't care what you say or how you twist it, you're crazy hatred for homosexuals has no foundation to be a law. It's illogical and breaks two lines in the Constitution of the United States. Also, you have no right to condemn someone to Hell (you did, read the last line of your post.) God will surely NOT be pleased with that.
Once again, you are at war with the standard of Truth set by Scripture -- you are NOT "fine" with Jesus, since you "can't stand" people.
"By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:10
"If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother." 1 John 4:20-21
According to this, you are not born of God, and you are not "fine" with Jesus; He is going to destroy you if you do not repent, so He is not "fine" with you.
Why attack me for making a mistake? I made a mistake in reading, and I admit that.
Sorry, I misread.
That's not the point; the point is that you, in your heart, ACCEPT this sinful practice, and wish to bless something that God CURSES.
Why are you branding me a hater? I am opposed to homosexuality in the same way as stealing or lying -- it is a sin that can get someone damned; if I "hate" homosexuality, itself (not the people), there is a good reason for it! It can get someone damned! I hate satan; I feel sorry for people who sin, and I want to make it CLEAR that it IS a sin; but NOT condemn people who practice it -- just tell them that God wants us to REPENT of ALL sins (homosexuality, included). If we don't even admit that it is a sin, then we'll never repent, and we will be under the wrath of God; therefore, I would say that I am LOVING people by telling them the Truth so that they can ESCAPE the wrath of God ON SINNERS WHO SIN.[/quote]
What is "illogical" is sin; it is not "illogical" to tell the Truth. If you like to talk about the Constitution (our Laws), here are some words from John Adams, a Founding Father, on what kind of people our Constitution and Laws were made for:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to be the government of any other." --John Adams October 11, 1798
(i.e.: religious morality must make the people righteous in order for our Laws to work -- because the Law was intended only for a religious/righteous people; but if the people became lawless/unrighteous, nothing in our Laws would be able to fix that, because the Law's place is to preside over a RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE. He left NO space -- it was a GIVEN that people had to be made moral BY FAITH -- for immorality in the Law; He just said that the people HAD to be HOLY, APART from the Law, and that the Law of the Land would rule peacefully over such people. He never said that a people could be irreligious and unholy and still enjoy liberty and Law.)
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] Secularists often lift a quote, out of context, from this same letter: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" He was making a point, and reading the quote in context, no one would misunderstand it. The Secularists know exactly what they are doing--they are trying to deceive gullible people.
(...and the Bible condemns homosexuality)
I didn't condemn you; the SCRIPTURE condemns people like you that turn the grace of God into a license for sin, and thereby deny the Lord with your works ("They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work." Titus 1:16), and I am warning you OUT OF LOVE, so that you will REPENT and NOT PERISH.
"By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:10
"If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother." 1 John 4:20-21
According to this, you are not born of God, and you are not "fine" with Jesus; He is going to destroy you if you do not repent, so He is not "fine" with you.
Why attack me for making a mistake? I made a mistake in reading, and I admit that.
Sorry, I misread.
That's not the point; the point is that you, in your heart, ACCEPT this sinful practice, and wish to bless something that God CURSES.
Why are you branding me a hater? I am opposed to homosexuality in the same way as stealing or lying -- it is a sin that can get someone damned; if I "hate" homosexuality, itself (not the people), there is a good reason for it! It can get someone damned! I hate satan; I feel sorry for people who sin, and I want to make it CLEAR that it IS a sin; but NOT condemn people who practice it -- just tell them that God wants us to REPENT of ALL sins (homosexuality, included). If we don't even admit that it is a sin, then we'll never repent, and we will be under the wrath of God; therefore, I would say that I am LOVING people by telling them the Truth so that they can ESCAPE the wrath of God ON SINNERS WHO SIN.[/quote]
What is "illogical" is sin; it is not "illogical" to tell the Truth. If you like to talk about the Constitution (our Laws), here are some words from John Adams, a Founding Father, on what kind of people our Constitution and Laws were made for:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to be the government of any other." --John Adams October 11, 1798
(i.e.: religious morality must make the people righteous in order for our Laws to work -- because the Law was intended only for a religious/righteous people; but if the people became lawless/unrighteous, nothing in our Laws would be able to fix that, because the Law's place is to preside over a RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE. He left NO space -- it was a GIVEN that people had to be made moral BY FAITH -- for immorality in the Law; He just said that the people HAD to be HOLY, APART from the Law, and that the Law of the Land would rule peacefully over such people. He never said that a people could be irreligious and unholy and still enjoy liberty and Law.)
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] Secularists often lift a quote, out of context, from this same letter: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!" He was making a point, and reading the quote in context, no one would misunderstand it. The Secularists know exactly what they are doing--they are trying to deceive gullible people.
(...and the Bible condemns homosexuality)
I didn't condemn you; the SCRIPTURE condemns people like you that turn the grace of God into a license for sin, and thereby deny the Lord with your works ("They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work." Titus 1:16), and I am warning you OUT OF LOVE, so that you will REPENT and NOT PERISH.
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If a person can make you not want to be a Christian, you never knew the Lord in the first place; you were just a nominal believer -- especially if it is someone who is zealous for the Truth and for God's work; a person who LOVES others, and therefore tells them the Truth.
Jesus didn't shy away from telling the woman at the well about her promiscuity (in order to SAVE her); but, she admitted it, humbly, and repented -- on the other hand, people who REJECT His Word will "not see life, but the wrath of God abides on [them]."
Now, when people like you, who CLAIM to be a Christian come and try to LIE to people, as if you represent the Truth, that is what gets me angry -- "who is not caused to stumble, and I do not BURN with indignation?" 2 Cor 11:29
It isn't enough that you are deceiving yourself; but you are spreading it to others.
Jesus didn't shy away from telling the woman at the well about her promiscuity (in order to SAVE her); but, she admitted it, humbly, and repented -- on the other hand, people who REJECT His Word will "not see life, but the wrath of God abides on [them]."
Now, when people like you, who CLAIM to be a Christian come and try to LIE to people, as if you represent the Truth, that is what gets me angry -- "who is not caused to stumble, and I do not BURN with indignation?" 2 Cor 11:29
It isn't enough that you are deceiving yourself; but you are spreading it to others.
Since the post before this literally just repeated the same rubbish...
I am not ashamed of Jesus. I love Him with ALL of my heart. The TITLE of Christian is what I was ashamed of. I referred to myself either as a Quaker or just a follower of Christ, not a Christian b/c that lumps me together with the hatred and ignorance that is spewed from the mouths of so many good "Christians" that use the Bible as a tool to attack people that they don't agree with b/c of their "choice." (NOT A CHOICE.) Stop using God's word for political purposes. It's disgusting.
I don't agree with it personally, but like I said, law should not reflect religious law. It greatly depends on the opinions of the people in that country. I don't think brothers and sisters should marry and have kids, it's quite dangerous to do so, all of the negative psychological and physical genes can pass down and make their child come out messed up in more ways than one. Incest DOES have physical effects on another life. Homosexuality does not have that. And you CANNOT compare inbreeding to gay sex. Gay sex is the equivalent of straight sex. Two people that are of consenting age, not related to each other and love each other. Incest is two people that are RELATED. Very different situations.
As usual, you have no Scripture to undergird your beliefs, just your human emotions -- "cursed is the man who trusts in man, and leans on the arm of flesh": like I said, I speak the Truth from LOVE, and you disdain the Truth, because the love of God is not in you. Whoever is of Him HEARS others who are of Him; those who are of the world, reject His Word, and those who bear His Words.
Ofcourse, you have none of His Words to justify your position, at all. You have nothing to stand on, except your fleshly emotions and opinions -- and they will all fade, as grass.
Once again, you cannot be ashamed of Jesus, because you don't even KNOW Jesus.
Ofcourse, you have none of His Words to justify your position, at all. You have nothing to stand on, except your fleshly emotions and opinions -- and they will all fade, as grass.
Once again, you cannot be ashamed of Jesus, because you don't even KNOW Jesus.
M
What if it were two brothers?
Not really sure what you mean by 'equivalent'. It's substantively different.
So if we remove the complications that may result from interbreeding and stick to same sex relationships, do you believe there's anything wrong or disordered about two family members marrying and having sex?
Not really sure what you mean by 'equivalent'. It's substantively different.
So if we remove the complications that may result from interbreeding and stick to same sex relationships, do you believe there's anything wrong or disordered about two family members marrying and having sex?
Personally, I wouldn't do it and I don't think other people should, BUT religion and personal opinion have no right to tell someone that they can't live their life a certain way in America (you're not America, but you're country has similar beliefs on that matter.) You can hate black people and want all black people to only marry other black people, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't get to marry a white person just because you say so...