Women don't deserve anything..................................

[Buff_Old_Guy]

I'm glad that there are men out there standing up for the women.

But there is truth to your thread here, Buff. If you truly believe that it's both men and women who think they deserve too much, then I'm for you. But if you're just picking on women, God will have to deal with you. I do believe we use the word deserve way too much in the wrong context. Deserving means that you've done something to earn something better. Some people use it to mean that God loves you so should have something better. Instead of telling them they "deserve" something better, tell them they can have something better. The word deserve can sometimes cause confusion because it's used in many different ways.

Hey Angel, I'm not sexist or anything. Women are on my mind right now and... while yeah both men and women can make the same mistake. Right now, I'm pointing out a trend that I think a lot of women tend to do. And that trend is that women say they "deserve" good treatment mainly because their women.

I'm not trying to be mean ok and don't admire men like zaoman... his not showing himself in a good light. I think you just feel like your being attacked and I'm sorry about that angel. The reason I made this post is because I have women on my mind right now and I actually care about you. People post about topics they care about, ok.

 

[Buff_Old_Guy]

Pride is pointing the finger at one gender and saying it's all their fault, or all their problem.

I get what you're saying, Buff, I really do. I don't agree with 100% of it, but I would encourage you to think about your approach next time. My hackles were already raised before I even entered the thread just because of the title. If you want people to listen to you, it's better to approach things like this in a more respectful manner and not gender bash. Men and women are BOTH fallen, and I, like MissCriss, am getting a bit tired of seeing "Here is why women suck" threads. I have seen some threads like that about men, but my point is that both are equally frustrating. We all have blame to take.

I never said it's all women's fault.

The reason it's gender specific is because the phrase, "I deserve to be treated better " (because of his/her sex) is something that women are much more likely to say. It's practically common knowledge say it so you can see why it's gender specific. And I think the source is pride. I'm sorry you feel attacked. I feel attacked too when there's threads about men too and yeah we all have blame.

 

[Buff_Old_Guy]

I get what you are saying, Buff. I truly do. I think the part that has put burrs under the saddles of some folks is that it is not only women who say and behave as if they are entitled to certain things and/or certain behaviors, and the title of this thread implies that it's a women only thing, brother.

I will confess that I have behaved this way a time or two myself, but I've learned a great deal in these forums and it has brought about some changes in my behavior.

There was a time when I would probably not have gone out with a guy again if he didn't open a door or two for me. There was a time when I refused to call a man because I was taught growing up that this was something ladies simply did not do. I am older now and I have learned that there are a lot of sweet, intelligent, loving, godly men out there who were raised differently. That doesn't make them damaged goods. Not looking BEYOND that makes me ignorant.

I'm reading between the lines here and do not want to presume to speak for you, but it appears what you are trying to say is that there are times when some women expect to not just be treated well, but expect (or even DEMAND) to be put up on a pedestal. Am I wrong?

If that is the case, as someone who HAS been a Christian woman for a very long time, I think much of this is caused by certain literature that circulates among Christian young ladies that is not received with prayer and godly wisdom. I think it can cause Christian ladies to get the idea that any guy who seeks their hand should be just like Jesus, forgetting sometimes that becoming like Jesus is a life-long process we ALL go through. We can't expect men who pursue us to get everything right all the time and cast them aside if they don't. We need to be asking ourselves how far along WE are in the process as well.

We ladies also need to remember that if we are going to bash guys from time to time, we need to be ready to eat a little humble pie of our own. We need to stop acting like we are all perfect little godly princesses swimming around with our crowns in the heart of Jesus and get a grip.

The demanding part is a symptom. The real problem is pride.. and out of pride... some women say they deserve/are entitled to good treatment JUST because they were born.

Imagine this....me.. here I'll say it.

I'm a man and a man deserves to be treated well.

Read that statement over and over again... does it sound right? It shouldn't and that's what some women have done. Again, pride is the real problem. Pride is the real problem. Pride is the real problem.

Anyways, I'm glad we're on the same page.

 

[livingepistle]

I never said it's all women's fault.

The reason it's gender specific is because the phrase, "I deserve to be treated better " (because of his/her sex) is something that women are much more likely to say. It's practically common knowledge say it so you can see why it's gender specific. And I think the source is pride. I'm sorry you feel attacked. I feel attacked too when there's threads about men too and yeah we all have blame.

Hey Buff, geographically, do they have "Quicksand" in your area? Just asking. LOL

 

[TheAristocat]

I'm NOT saying that Christian women or women in general shouldn't be treated nicely but just that they shouldn't use the word "deserve." Also, I know God wants us to treat each other nicely but that doesn't mean we deserve it.

We always hear women(in general) say that they "deserve" to be treated a certain(nice) way. And what I'm about to say is something only Christians can understand and if your not Christian then you have no right to say anything because you don't understand.... So here I go...

Women don't deserve anything, we're all sinners and what women deserve is actually hell. We know this as Christians. We know that mankind, both men and women deserve hell cause of the evil we are all guilty of. (Also, as Christians we know that we received forgiveness of this fault through Jesus Christ and thus Christians go to heaven not because we deserve it but because God loved us enough to die for us to pay for our crimes). So, why are women saying that they "deserve" to be treated nicely? That word tells us that women are entitled to be treated nicely... just because they were born. (That's clearly the context it's said in) I think pride is the reason why they use that word. And as we Christians know we're all born into sin. <---- please don't nitpick on that, just agree with me that we're not perfect and eventually sin someday.

Note: There is one circumstance where there's an exception. And I'm not sure if that's the only exception but it's honor your father and mother. I also remember scripture that says to give honor where honor is due. So, only a mother deserves to be treated a certain(with honor) way... and to make it more accurate... I think it's ACCORDING to how much honor she actually deserves. (due)

Romans 13:7
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

So, I think the solution is simple. I think Christian women should just stop saying the word "deserve" anymore. And I imagine most of you would agree with this... there's no argument here and if you want to argue... I won't argue much because of how clear and true this is. Unless... there's some point of truth (non-argument point) that I completely missed. I'll be happy to say to accept my mistake.

I pretty much agree. The phrase "human rights" is illogical when taken at face value, because it really doesn't mean anything within the grand scheme of things. But when people are talking about rights, they usually mean what rights other humans have in relation to other humans so that society will run smoothly and efficiently - not what rights they have or deserve on the basis of some absolute standard of morality.

 

[Buff_Old_Guy]

Hey Buff, geographically, do they have "Quicksand" in your area? Just asking. LOL

I live in California... and last time I checked.... California is technically dessert land.

 

[PrettyBelle]

Is it more edifying to tell people they don't deserve things, or is it more edifying to demonstrate God's love to people who don't deserve things? Don't get me wrong, I understand that we need to share the Truth, but your approach is absolutely terrible. Where do you get off on telling Seoulsearch that she's just wrong or telling Arwen she just doesn't understand? We need to be building each other up.

I just made a blog about this very subject.
Nice to know that others feel as I do.

I'm an abuse sufferer and have been abused sexually, verbally, and emotionally. So when I see some of the responses about this topic from you Old Buff Guy (who's only 25..interesting) I just caution you by saying this. I did not deserve to be abused. Saying this only puts a wedge between you and others on this board.

You seem to be going down the legalistic road with your comments and this is not fruitful. I'm sorry you have difficult women in your life. Maybe God put these women in your life to show you something just as God put abuse in my life. We either rise above it and let God heal us, or we get bitter and that bitterness skews our vision.

What we need to keep in mind is that God uses our past, and present to minister to someone else and bring Him glory. Every situation, person, trial and suffering is brought in our lives to be used for a specific purpose. We can go His way and it can be used for His glory, or chose our own and cut and wound others over things we think can help another but judges them. The latter path just ends up hurting others and ourselves.

Instead of admonishing us about the word deserve, pick a more edifying way to get your point across.
The truth should be wrapped in love to be effective. I didn't deserve to suffer the abuse that I did, but God chose to show His glory through it. He brings hurting people in my life that because of my past I can find a common thread with them to minister and love them through the healing process. There is beauty for my ashes. So my suffering was for a purpose...to help others and serve God.

If it was sin that caused it, then it was my sin...not yours to discuss. Taking some time to walk in another persons pain and helping them bear their burden proves more understanding and insight than telling them it was the sins in their live causing all the trouble.

 

[CatHerder]

I see on facebook many female affirmation posts such as "ever woman deserves......" going on about a guy adoring her and putting her on a pedestal. None of these ever detail what she is giving in this hypothetical relationship, only what she is getting.

Countless TV shows and commercials have the bumbling husband and the nagging wife. He wants to take care of the termite problem himself, but when the stuff he bought doesn't work, he finally gives in to his wife's nagging and calls the professionals (if she is so all-knowing and much more competent than him, why didn't she just call them in the first place?). He ends the commercial with a snivelly "you were right, Honey." ugh!

These are just a couple of examples of the view of men in our society. We live in a fallen world, with fallen men, and fallen women. Because men and women are different, they are not going to exhibit their fallen nature in the same way, though we are equally fallen. Even pride can look different in a man than it does a woman. Perhaps you are seeing women's fallen behavior more because of societal/pop culture influences in which loud-mouthed, hypercritical women seem to be celebrated?

It's not just confined to the secular though:

In Christian circles, there seems to be this "if momma ain't happy, then nobody's happy" attitude. I think this casts women in a horrible light. While it may seem to mean that "momma's" happiness directly affects the emotional state of the entire family, it really makes her out to be an emotionally tyrant, with the rest of the family walking on eggshells for fear of upsetting her. Maybe "momma" needs to grow up and realize that life ain't fair, like the rest of us have to.

Also, in church messages, when talking about wives being submissive to their husbands, I've noticed that they spend the entire sermon with the warning to men about what this does NOT mean and never seem to get what godly submission in a marriage DOES look like. Perhaps, since more women go to church than men, they are afraid of losing that portion of their audience too, I dunno.

If this is the attitude you mean, then I am in agreement with you...If I'm not getting your main message, please tell me that I'm "wrong" as you have done others.

 

[Fenner]

cathearder you make a lot of good points. Many things I've thought about myself, especially if the momma ain't happy mentality. It does make us seem like emotional tyrants. I've never liked that statement.

 

[livingepistle]

Something to Consider:

MY NICHOLS’ WORTH
UNDERSTANDING THE INCREASING AFFLUENCE OF WOMEN
Judith E. Nichols, Ph.D., CFRE

The American Association of Fundraising Council Trust for Philanthropy estimates that women’s charitable giving has increased by more than $15 billion since 1996. Yet, most organizations still focus their fundraising efforts more heavily on men.

Globally, women's economic power is soaring. Women make 80 percent of all buying decisions around the world. In the United States, for example:

• American women by themselves are, in effect, the largest national” economy on earth, larger than the entire (!) Japanese economy.
• Over the past three decades (1970-1998), men’s median income barely budged (+0.6 percent after adjusting for inflation), while women’s has soared +63 percent.
•Women bring in half or more of the household income in the majority of the United States.
•Women control 51.3 percent of the private wealth in the United States.
•Women control most of the spending in the household - about 80 percent.

Still not convinced? In The Power of the Purse: How Smart Businesses Are Adapting to the World’s Most Important Consumer -- Women, (Pearson/Prentice Hall 2006), author Fara Warner asserts that:
o Women account for more than 50 percent of all stock ownership in the United States. By 2010, women will account for half the private wealth in the country, or about $14 trillion. By 2020, you can expect that number to reach $22 trillion as wealth continues to shift from men to women.
o When women and men of equal education, abilities, and similar social status are compared, the pay disparity disappears. Those women make as much as, if not more than, their male counterparts. Forty-one percent of the 3.3 million Americans with incomes exceeding $500,000 are women.
o Women control or influence 67 percent of household investment decisions. Forty-three percent of Americans with $500,000 or more in investable assets are women.
o Women control 48 percent of estates worth more than $5 million.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. The largest wealth transfer in history is about to take place as the Baby Boomers inherit from their parents. In turn, because women generally outlive their husbands, the family assets will become concentrated in the hands of Boomer women. Older women are increasingly single. There are fourteen million single women older than 55 compared to only 4 million single men. Moreover, most women marry older men. As a result, nearly half of elderly women are widowed, compared with just l4 percent of elderly men. end of quote

 

[Jullianna]

Agree 100%! But girls should stop expecting a perfect man... and same for men wanting a Stepford wife. we should stop expecting perfection. Ladies, don't generalize about the state of men - there are guys like me who just want a lifelong companion to confide in and who loves us despite our faults... just like God

And I'm starting to realize that most girls could care less about chivalry lol but surprised Christian women don't mind anymore!

It's not that we don't care or don't like it. We simply realize that many women do not appreciate gentlemanly kindness and their rudeness and lack of appreciation has made men hesitant to be as courteous as they might otherwise desire. Some of us like it very much, but demanding it is an altogether different thing, isn't it?

 

[libertygirl]

BuffOldGuy, I remember a thread you created about how you have a bad view of women. What steps have you taken to overcome that? And I am curious to know what you do love about women.

 

[iTOREtheSKY]

I want to add more. I can be blunt and untactful.

I think what you would say, would be incorrect and misleading. Sure, it sounds sweet to say it but it's untruthful because people deserve worse... I know that might be a tough pill to swallow. But, I'm not trying to be mean. I sympathize and it's sad that bad things happen.

I think it would be better to say that... "That shouldn't have happened to you because that was sin" It's something touchy. I know but we gotta be careful with our minds... or we'll think we really do deserve better.

Well...I got this far into the thread & after what I have to say here & now,I won't be coming back to this thread...I don't even care if it resolves itself & fireworks with butterflies & flowers are shooting from it. I for one second cannot imagine Jesus saying to any woman (or man) in a terrible situation or if that person was in a place of utter despair,him saying,"By the way,you know technically you deserve all this & worse 'cause yer' a sinner & headed for hell." Jesus never whitewashed anything,but he also comforted people,showed a bit of compassion & love. They all knew they were sinners,as we know we have all fallen short. Women don't deserve anything??? I think what they need most from men is the love found in 1st Corinthians 13:1-13...maybe more of that & less of threads like these.

 

[MissCris]

I'm not trying to be mean ok and don't admire men like zaoman... his not showing himself in a good light.

Uhh...I don't think...that you understood what he was saying.

 

[PopClick]

Hey Angel, I'm not sexist or anything. Women are on my mind right now and... while yeah both men and women can make the same mistake. Right now, I'm pointing out a trend that I think a lot of women tend to do. And that trend is that women say they "deserve" good treatment mainly because their women.

I'm not trying to be mean ok and don't admire men like zaoman... his not showing himself in a good light. I think you just feel like your being attacked and I'm sorry about that angel. The reason I made this post is because I have women on my mind right now and I actually care about you. People post about topics they care about, ok.

I never said it's all women's fault.

The reason it's gender specific is because the phrase, "I deserve to be treated better " (because of his/her sex) is something that women are much more likely to say. It's practically common knowledge say it so you can see why it's gender specific. And I think the source is pride. I'm sorry you feel attacked. I feel attacked too when there's threads about men too and yeah we all have blame.

I probably ought to know better than to step in this.

But buff old guy, imagine that I started a thread that said "Men Should Not Lust!"
Would you say "yeah, that's right! They shouldn't!", or would you say "Women shouldn't lust, either!"

It's true enough. Men should not lust. But the whole truth is, NOBODY should lust. If I just point out something that men do wrong, when it's a sin committed by people in general, it's going to make men feel picked on.

Do you see where we're coming from?

 

[livingepistle]

I live in California... and last time I checked.... California is technically dessert land.

LOL Brother

But I get what you are saying; "Deserve”.

This is an emotional term and most, men and women, do not focus on semantics but respond with emotions instead of intellect; including me. The deserve is not universal as I have experienced in other countries during my limited travels throughout the North Pacific and Mexico. Women are often abused. Treated literally as dogs. It is a very sad situation and they "do deserve" better and "the best".

I do agree with the "deserve" when it is applied to "CONUS". The same I have found to be true in the US churches. The pastors preach very little about what the Bible has to say about women in churches. Again in U.S., the "Purse" rules. What is that proverbial saying, "He Who Has The Gold, Makes The Rules"? The majority of U.S. secular women and of Christendom know the power of the "Purse" and "Husbands Having To Sleep On The Living Room Couch".

I believe that additional education should be included and when not performed it can sometimes send the wrong subliminal messages to our Sisters in the Lord thus creating conflicting behavior among some;not all, male and female relationships.

Unfortunately, the Spirit Filled and Led Sisters in Christ are not treated fairly in many of the US congregations. According to the "Word" each woman in Jesus' circle were given great deference. As an example consider, that on the cross, Jesus did not speak directly to anyone else in the natural except concerning a woman; His mother. "When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son!'. Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!’" (John 19:26-27).

I count four times the term woman (feminine references for acknowledgement) is mentioned with deference; son and disciple (masculine) only once. When Jesus spoke to the disciple; masculine, He gave a command of preference for the feminine; mother. I also note that Jesus took the subordinate position to his mother, when referring to himself as "son".

I have learned something from your thread Buff that I never noticed before until today; e.g., while here on earth and based upon John 19:26-27, our Sisters in Christ do "deserve" special and favorable treatment. This is not a cop-out and I stress, "Sisters in submission to the Lord". The "Jezebels" of the OT and "Sapphiras" of the NT types are exempted from the "deserve" comments.

I have gained new insight and deeper understanding of Christian male and female relationships according to Jesus' example on the cross.

Sincerely, Great thread Buff. This is one of the best that I have participated in as a new comer to the CC.

Respectfully submitted by
Livingepistle

 

[leelee]

Previously in this very thread you have said that you meant neither men nor women deserve anything. Why is the title specific to women then?

I both agree and disagree with you, if I treat someone with kindness and respect I do deserve for them to trest me with kindness and respect. If I treat someone badly I do deserve the retaliation. Yes we all deserve hell but that is not an excuse to treat others badly. We do not deserve Gods love but we do, if respectful, deserve the respect of our peers. I do not mean out of pride but out of behaving in an appropriate and grown up manner.

 

[psychomom]

I think you seem off-topic and I'm not sure what your trying to say. Could you please rephrase it?

sure! (or do I mean I'll try and you let me know?)

since it's you who asked, I will say that in your OP you seem to be saying that you (and perhaps others) 'deserve' a better class of ladies than the ones being dished out to you right now.
granted, I have been ill, and this may simply be fatigue and low hemoglobin causing even poorer brain function. (lol)


I understand there's been a terrible change in some women since the 1950s...and perhaps especially since the 1980s.
And I concede I don't keep up with the ladies who post regularly in this forum, although most seem like lovely Christian women, from what I've seen.
I also grieve the fact men in western culture are dealing with wholesale disrespect in many ways, and it's as wrong as it used to be when secretaries were chased around a desk.

I hear that you are frustrated, but I wonder if you've given up? Or have thrown an entire group of women out of the running for your prayers and your help?
Our son (4th born) is your age. I am speaking to you as I would to him.
If you were a young woman complaining of men, I would be saying different things.

thanks for listening-
ellie

 

[Fighting4Him]

Hey Angel, I'm not sexist or anything. Women are on my mind right now and... while yeah both men and women can make the same mistake. Right now, I'm pointing out a trend that I think a lot of women tend to do. And that trend is that women say they "deserve" good treatment mainly because their women.

I'm not trying to be mean ok and don't admire men like zaoman... his not showing himself in a good light. I think you just feel like your being attacked and I'm sorry about that angel. The reason I made this post is because I have women on my mind right now and I actually care about you. People post about topics they care about, ok.

A do agree that women are acting that they deserve something. Especially because of the feminist movement. But just for future reference, you need to be careful in how you word things. You could actually hurt someone without meaning to.

And I only said what I did about Zaoman because to him it seemed like you were purposefully trying to hurt women.

I don't feel attacked, I just think that you need to know that to some it could seem that way. I would feel attacked if you were trying to put women down though.

 

[Buff_Old_Guy]

I just made a blog about this very subject.
Nice to know that others feel as I do.

I'm an abuse sufferer and have been abused sexually, verbally, and emotionally. So when I see some of the responses about this topic from you Old Buff Guy (who's only 25..interesting) I just caution you by saying this. I did not deserve to be abused. Saying this only puts a wedge between you and others on this board.

You seem to be going down the legalistic road with your comments and this is not fruitful. I'm sorry you have difficult women in your life. Maybe God put these women in your life to show you something just as God put abuse in my life. We either rise above it and let God heal us, or we get bitter and that bitterness skews our vision.

What we need to keep in mind is that God uses our past, and present to minister to someone else and bring Him glory. Every situation, person, trial and suffering is brought in our lives to be used for a specific purpose. We can go His way and it can be used for His glory, or chose our own and cut and wound others over things we think can help another but judges them. The latter path just ends up hurting others and ourselves.

Instead of admonishing us about the word deserve, pick a more edifying way to get your point across.
The truth should be wrapped in love to be effective. I didn't deserve to suffer the abuse that I did, but God chose to show His glory through it. He brings hurting people in my life that because of my past I can find a common thread with them to minister and love them through the healing process. There is beauty for my ashes. So my suffering was for a purpose...to help others and serve God.

If it was sin that caused it, then it was my sin...not yours to discuss. Taking some time to walk in another persons pain and helping them bear their burden proves more understanding and insight than telling them it was the sins in their live causing all the trouble.

(hugs)

I'm very sorry for what happened to you. I take the stance of... that the abuse you got is not something that should've happened because it's sin and the abuser shouldn't commit sin. The deserving part... that's a different area and shouldn't be mixed in.

You see there's two layers that you have to think about....

There's the layer that talks about what we all deserve... based on God's law... we deserve hell. So, the fact that we, you including... deserve hell... it overshadows any abuse you can muster up in a life time.

Now on the layer that talks about God's love... based on his will and sacrifice on the cross... it's clear that God wants better for your life and it's NOT because you deserve better. It's because God loves that much and much more than you realize since you didn't understand what I was saying. It is in God's heart that all men be saved and instead go to heaven.

Summing it up... men and women are to be treated nicely because that's Gods love and will for us... But, we don't deserve good things or to be treated nicely... we deserve hell.

There is what you deserve... and then there's God's love and the desire of his heart.

The legalistic thing you said. Thanks for saying that because I could be in danger of that. The women in my life did a few things to me sure but I didn't make this thread because of them. I like the title of my thread because it makes a great hook. It's a true thing aswell. But, the body of my OP could've been better and explained things much better.

Again, I'm sorry for the abuse you got... and I recommend you look for Powemm's post on page 3... She's been through abuse too and understands what I'm saying.