Red Flags in the church

[cinder]

Are pastors allowed to say that? To name a person? Don't think they can in Canada. But I'd rather a pastor say vote Trump than a progressive liberal (who ever the nominee will be). Not to derail the thread but I think it's very important to discuss politics in the church. Issues like gay marriage/ transgender, abortion, supporting Israel are all issues Christians need to know about.

I'll agree that it's important for Christians to hold a clear Biblical opinion on the above issues, but it would be a red flag to me if in the church's discussions / teaching on such issues they were more concerned about society's laws than the redemption and spiritual rescue and restoration of the people who struggle with their identity or lives in such ways. I don't think we can be faithful proclaimers of "the good news" if all we have to offer the most struggling and hurting among us is " well you shouldn't have done all that stuff you've already done that got you into this situation in the first place". Now when they come into the fold absolutely we expect a process of change to take place, but there's still going to be challenges from their pre-Church life that the church needs to compassionately help them out with.

And all too often I find among older Christians this idea that people who sin like sit down and make this logical choice that they want to do wrong and rebel against God. Like people could clearly see that they had a lot of options and deliberately chose the most sinful and destructive one because they aren't interested in God in the least. The older I get and the more people I actually like interact with and get to know; the more ridiculous that position seems. Understanding doesn't justify sin, but it might just help us be a bit more gracious and a bit wiser in helping people get out of the sin they're trapped in.

 

[17Bees]

Do you believe in God according to John 3:16? If so, you’re not guilty.

BrotherMike - I believe guilt is a kind of two edged sword; the spiritual edge paid by blood and the physical edge paid by consequence. And since I"m a current occupant of both "edges" by faith and by body, it'd probably be wise to recognize both payments.

A favorite line from the movie "O'Brother Where Art Thou" was made after the character Delmar found redemption of his past sins and salvation through Christ, but didn't fully comprehend his total redemption in a more physical sense:

Delmar: "But the Preacher was witness! They seen me redeemed!"
Ulysses "That's not the issue Delmar. Even if that did square you with the Lord, the State of Mississippi is a little more hard nosed."

 

[Kojikun]

Theres a big panic when the Church runs out of Miller Lite (not farfetched where im from)

 

[morefaithrequired]

If the male pastor wears a mini skirt when giving a sermon

 

[morefaithrequired]

If muscle men crowd controllers greet you when you arrive at the door

 

[morefaithrequired]

If a video is shown at Church how to encourage your child to question their gender choice

 

[Lynx]

The major red flags are the signs that the church is ignoring either grace or truth. You gotta have both.

If the church ignores grace, life becomes a list of rules to live by. If you don't toe the line you're going to hell.
I know a few churches like that. You can always tell who the members-in-good-standing are, because they always talk about the people they know who are not up to par. They seem to take pleasure in recounting how other people have failed, because it makes them feel better about themselves. Life becomes a contest to see who can be the most holy.

If the church ignores truth, everybody is going to Heaven no matter what they do. There's no real need to live righteously... I mean yeah, it's better to live that way, but you don't really have to if you don't want to... because God loves you just as you are. You can always tell who the experts are at this church because they are really good at finding ways to explain away sin. I mean freaky good - they are like rationalization ninjas. They are also very good at making you feel guilty if you every say somebody is doing something wrong.

And of course the people from each kind of church irritate the crap out of the other church's people. The church that ignores grace can't stand it when anybody tries to be understanding, and the church that ignores truth calls you legalistic if you dare mention anything about standards, doctrine or hell.

But secretly, both kinds of churches are glad that the other kind exists. It makes it really easy to pigeon-hole anybody they don't agree with. If you don't agree with me, oh you must be like those people at THAT church. Forget it man, I don't want to talk to you any more.

 

[Lynx]

And one other question I'm currently wondering about, " What does it say about church and christians in general if this thread has more response and discussion and input than the one about the good things in the church?"

I'm waiting to see that too. Should we keep score by post count or word count? Either way this thread is already more than double the size of the other thread, but it will be interesting to see the factor by which it multiplies. I'm betting on a factor of 4x at least.

 

[Lanolin]

I'll agree that it's important for Christians to hold a clear Biblical opinion on the above issues, but it would be a red flag to me if in the church's discussions / teaching on such issues they were more concerned about society's laws than the redemption and spiritual rescue and restoration of the people who struggle with their identity or lives in such ways. I don't think we can be faithful proclaimers of "the good news" if all we have to offer the most struggling and hurting among us is " well you shouldn't have done all that stuff you've already done that got you into this situation in the first place". Now when they come into the fold absolutely we expect a process of change to take place, but there's still going to be challenges from their pre-Church life that the church needs to compassionately help them out with.

And all too often I find among older Christians this idea that people who sin like sit down and make this logical choice that they want to do wrong and rebel against God. Like people could clearly see that they had a lot of options and deliberately chose the most sinful and destructive one because they aren't interested in God in the least. The older I get and the more people I actually like interact with and get to know; the more ridiculous that position seems. Understanding doesn't justify sin, but it might just help us be a bit more gracious and a bit wiser in helping people get out of the sin they're trapped in.

Yea how is anyone supposed to know when they sin, what it entails, the thing is people sin mostly because they are ignorant and dont know any better as well as some who sin as rebellion. I dont think its fair to paint everyone in the same brush, cos sin can be quite attractive at the time or the easiest way out or they just didnt know how to do it Gods way.

You cant run before you can walk is what im saying and there will always be some people that have perfectionist tendencies and expect everyone else to be as they are, not accounting that even they themselves had to start somewhere. Its always easier for an older person to say in hindsight you should have done this.

 

[Lanolin]

I was checking out a .quaker church for a while but found that the whole sitting down in silence for worship for a whole hour not really my thing.

I like the silence but then I ended up falling asleep. At least in other churches you get to stand up and sit down so theres some movement.

I was talking to a younger girl there as everyone else seemed retired or already knew each other, from the Uk where they bounce around quaker meeting houses (they call it staying with friends) and she was very enthusiastic until I asked her and how does the worship help you in your spiritual walk with God? And she was like well Im actually more of a goddess person.

I was like hmm ok she must be seeker do next time I show her the Holy Bible that they leave on the table and explain to her who Jesus is?

 

[Brandon123]

Red flags
-if it in any way meets criteria for a cult..
-how much do they emphasise donating money to them
-too much emotionalism
-too fundamentalist
-too loosey goosey hippie new age anything is cool man hip

I agree entirely 😬

 

[Tinkerbell725]

 

[LordsHandmaiden]

Wow
Thank you @Tinkerbell725 !

Some of these feel goods people I used to like but God allowed the scales to fall from my eyes!

I follow NO MAN NOW!

 

[Mel85]

I once attend this church conference that some really big international key speakers speak at annually, everything went well from the worship at the beginning to the sermons and then, just as they were wrapping things up at the end , they wanted to promo next years theme conference and used the kid’s ministry to do it. I was confused with what they were trying to do because they brought out kids dressed in sports outfits, entertainment outfits and then, the major red flag they had was when they had kids dressed in ufo and alien type of costumes parading around like it was okay.

This all didn’t sit with me well, because they were happily mixing worldly stuff with God.

That was the last time I attended this church.

Also, during the intermissions the hosts were interviewing random people from the audience and were being matchmakers - come on, are we here to hear about the Gospel or watch single people hook up with others. I felt their priorities weren’t right.