This Corona virus pandemic could be the weapon that takes our liberties away , all in the name of saving lives?

[Janeaux]

And where has this person indicated they do not stand for Christ?

And how does differing views on this virus and epidemiology even remotely connected to standing for Christ?

I believe the person being referred to is me. It seems that if I disagree with the general sentiments here, my Christianity is questioned. I must believe the right things or I am no "christian". To me the right thing is to focus on what Jesus taught us to do: To love one another and to love our neighbour as ourselves. I do believe he meant all of them: black, white, brown, yellow +++ AND those who believe as I do as well as those who do not which would include: Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and even Atheists. My focus is on THIS.

My dear mother really put Jesus into her life so much. She gave and gave of herself & she did not discriminate against people who were different. She forgave. She loved all. She had so much compassion & empathy. And my goal is that if I can do a fraction of what she did, I will have done a lot. For me, it is not about "rules", it is about being a decent human being. If you really follow Jesus, you have done well. My dear Mom passed away and her anniversary is coming soon. I will always miss her, but I carry what she taught me and I try every single day to do some of what she did. And, for this, Catholic Christian, that is enough.

If you can respond to these words with anger, here is just a little of what Jesus Said:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”
— Jesus (Matthew 5:3-10)
​

My point is: Jesus death did matter. His life, though, is where we can learn. No one can be anything like He was, but we can try. I pray to Him daily to be able to do just a fraction of all of this. And it is what gets me through in life.

 

[EleventhHour]

I believe the person being referred to is me. It seems that if I disagree with the general sentiments here, my Christianity is questioned. I must believe the right things or I am no "christian". To me the right thing is to focus on what Jesus taught us to do: To love one another and to love our neighbour as ourselves. I do believe he meant all of them: black, white, brown, yellow +++ AND those who believe as I do as well as those who do not which would include: Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and even Atheists. My focus is on THIS.

My dear mother really put Jesus into her life so much. She gave and gave of herself & she did not discriminate against people who were different. She forgave. She loved all. She had so much compassion & empathy. And my goal is that if I can do a fraction of what she did, I will have done a lot. For me, it is not about "rules", it is about being a decent human being. If you really follow Jesus, you have done well. My dear Mom passed away and her anniversary is coming soon. I will always miss her, but I carry what she taught me and I try every single day to do some of what she did. And, for this, Catholic Christian, that is enough.

If you can respond to these words with anger, here is just a little of what Jesus Said:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”
— Jesus (Matthew 5:3-10)
​

My point is: Jesus death did matter. His life, though, is where we can learn. No one can be anything like He was, but we can try. I pray to Him daily to be able to do just a fraction of all of this. And it is what gets me through in life.

Janeaux, I understand the sentiment truly I do as some one raised Catholic, but to be clear good works do not save.

Only faith in Christ for salvation, the gift of eternal life is what saves.
Jesus is the source of salvation, not good works.

I hope you have this correct understanding, the Gospel is not divided, there is only one Gospel.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Ephesians 2:8

 

[1ofthem]

Now protest are going on across many states in US to lighten the restrictions in place. The Gov. of KY always gives a 5 pm debriefing daily of the coronavirus situation. Yesterday there were protests going on outside the state capitol and they could be heard loud and clear while the Gov. was giving his daily debriefing. Protesters were yelling things such as "we want to work" .... Not sure how this is going to go now. Guess, all we can do is just wait and see how it's going to go. I

I'm not even sure which side to take in this situation. Seems like a darned if you do darned if you don't situation going on now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/us/coronavirus-rules-protests.html

 

[PennEd]

THIS!!!!!!

Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern

Marina Medvin

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel of Tel Aviv University, who also serves on the research and development advisory board for Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, plotted the rates of new coronavirus infections of the U.S., U.K., Sweden, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, France, Germany, and Spain. The numbers told a shocking story: irrespective of whether the country quarantined like Israel, or went about business as usual like Sweden, coronavirus peaked and subsided in the exact same way. In the exact, same, way. His graphs show that all countries experienced seemingly identical coronavirus infection patterns, with the number of infected peaking in the sixth week and rapidly subsiding by the eighth week.

The Wuhan Virus follows its own pattern, he told Mako, an Israeli news agency. It is a fixed pattern that is not dependent on freedom or quarantine. “There is a decline in the number of infections even [in countries] without closures, and it is similar to the countries with closures,” he wrote in his paper.

“Is the coronavirus expansion exponential? The answer by the numbers is simple: no. Expansion begins exponentially but fades quickly after about eight weeks,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concluded. The reason why coronavirus follows a fixed pattern is yet unknown. "I have no explanation,” he told Mako, “There are is kinds of speculation: maybe it's climate-related, maybe the virus has its own life cycle.”
But what about Italy and their staggering 12% mortality rate? “The health system in Italy has its own problems. It has nothing to do with coronavirus. In 2017 it also collapsed because of the flu,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel told the news agency. Indeed, Italy’s exceptionally high coronavirus mortality rate is eerily reminiscent of their unusually high flu mortality rates. Supportive of this theory, Germany, has low flu infection and mortality rates and similarly low coronavirus rates.

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concludes in his analysis summary paper that the data from the past 50 days indicates that the closure policies of the quarantine countries can be replaced by more moderate social distancing policies. The numbers simply do not support quarantine or economic closure.
On the reasonableness of Israel’s unprecedented quarantine and closure, he commented to the news agency, “I think it's mass hysteria. I have no other way to describe it. 4,500 people die each year from the flu in Israel because of complications, so close the country because of that? No. I don't see a reason to do it because of a lower-risk epidemic.”
While the American policies remain less restrictive than those of Israel, it is important to understand the origins of our own “mass hysteria” response. President Trump urged a strong coronavirus response after consulting with Dr. Fauci and his team, who relied on a British model predicting 2.2 million deaths in the United States and 500,000 deaths in the U.K. But that model was developed by Professor Neil Ferguson, who had a history of wildly overestimating death rates through his prediction models. Professor Ferguson was not known for his reliability, and his 2001 disease model was criticized as “not fit for purpose” after it predicted that up to 150,000 people could die in the U.K. from mad cow disease (177 deaths to date). Ferguson’s U.K. coronavirus deaths prediction is now down to 20,000 people, 4% of the original prediction.
Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel has mathematically shown us that coronavirus closures were a mistake. It's a tough reality. Americans lost their jobs and businesses went under because the United States, along with most first world nations, acted on the chilling predictions of a severely flawed model, a reading of Professor Ferguson’s tarot cards. Hindsight is 20/20, so we have to be realistic with our criticism. President Trump did not want 2.2 million Americans to die and did what he thought was necessary to save our lives, relying on a model his advisors told him was trustworthy. It's done. It happened. But it doesn't mean that he should continue the course.

 

[Janeaux]

I believe the person being referred to is me. It seems that if I disagree with the general sentiments here, my Christianity is questioned. I must believe the right things or I am no "christian". To me the right thing is to focus on what Jesus taught us to do: To love one another and to love our neighbour as ourselves. I do believe he meant all of them: black, white, brown, yellow +++ AND those who believe as I do as well as those who do not which would include: Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and even Atheists. My focus is on THIS.

My dear mother really put Jesus into her life so much. She gave and gave of herself & she did not discriminate against people who were different. She forgave. She loved all. She had so much compassion & empathy. And my goal is that if I can do a fraction of what she did, I will have done a lot. For me, it is not about "rules", it is about being a decent human being. If you really follow Jesus, you have done well. My dear Mom passed away and her anniversary is coming soon. I will always miss her, but I carry what she taught me and I try every single day to do some of what she did. And, for this, Catholic Christian, that is enough.

If you can respond to these words with anger, here is just a little of what Jesus Said:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
​

 

[EleventhHour]

THIS!!!!!!

Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern

Marina Medvin

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel of Tel Aviv University, who also serves on the research and development advisory board for Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, plotted the rates of new coronavirus infections of the U.S., U.K., Sweden, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, France, Germany, and Spain. The numbers told a shocking story: irrespective of whether the country quarantined like Israel, or went about business as usual like Sweden, coronavirus peaked and subsided in the exact same way. In the exact, same, way. His graphs show that all countries experienced seemingly identical coronavirus infection patterns, with the number of infected peaking in the sixth week and rapidly subsiding by the eighth week.

The Wuhan Virus follows its own pattern, he told Mako, an Israeli news agency. It is a fixed pattern that is not dependent on freedom or quarantine. “There is a decline in the number of infections even [in countries] without closures, and it is similar to the countries with closures,” he wrote in his paper.

“Is the coronavirus expansion exponential? The answer by the numbers is simple: no. Expansion begins exponentially but fades quickly after about eight weeks,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concluded. The reason why coronavirus follows a fixed pattern is yet unknown. "I have no explanation,” he told Mako, “There are is kinds of speculation: maybe it's climate-related, maybe the virus has its own life cycle.”
But what about Italy and their staggering 12% mortality rate? “The health system in Italy has its own problems. It has nothing to do with coronavirus. In 2017 it also collapsed because of the flu,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel told the news agency. Indeed, Italy’s exceptionally high coronavirus mortality rate is eerily reminiscent of their unusually high flu mortality rates. Supportive of this theory, Germany, has low flu infection and mortality rates and similarly low coronavirus rates.

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concludes in his analysis summary paper that the data from the past 50 days indicates that the closure policies of the quarantine countries can be replaced by more moderate social distancing policies. The numbers simply do not support quarantine or economic closure.
On the reasonableness of Israel’s unprecedented quarantine and closure, he commented to the news agency, “I think it's mass hysteria. I have no other way to describe it. 4,500 people die each year from the flu in Israel because of complications, so close the country because of that? No. I don't see a reason to do it because of a lower-risk epidemic.”
While the American policies remain less restrictive than those of Israel, it is important to understand the origins of our own “mass hysteria” response. President Trump urged a strong coronavirus response after consulting with Dr. Fauci and his team, who relied on a British model predicting 2.2 million deaths in the United States and 500,000 deaths in the U.K. But that model was developed by Professor Neil Ferguson, who had a history of wildly overestimating death rates through his prediction models. Professor Ferguson was not known for his reliability, and his 2001 disease model was criticized as “not fit for purpose” after it predicted that up to 150,000 people could die in the U.K. from mad cow disease (177 deaths to date). Ferguson’s U.K. coronavirus deaths prediction is now down to 20,000 people, 4% of the original prediction.
Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel has mathematically shown us that coronavirus closures were a mistake. It's a tough reality. Americans lost their jobs and businesses went under because the United States, along with most first world nations, acted on the chilling predictions of a severely flawed model, a reading of Professor Ferguson’s tarot cards. Hindsight is 20/20, so we have to be realistic with our criticism. President Trump did not want 2.2 million Americans to die and did what he thought was necessary to save our lives, relying on a model his advisors told him was trustworthy. It's done. It happened. But it doesn't mean that he should continue the course.

I love stuff like this.......... the best part is the comment section they always provide a good counter balance

1) Terry Chambers - Except this is not a case of mathematical calculations, or haven't you noticed? Math only produces answers on the basis of the figures fed into the equation. This character's theories are based solely on guesswork, nothing else.


2) Several other commentators have pointed out the mistakes, but I will try to expound on them.

First, it was NEVER about the number of days of an outbreak, but how fast and far the contagion spreads and how many die during it. Social distancing w/ closures of public gatherings, businesses, etc. absolutely have been shown to make a difference as was seen during the 1918-20 flu outbreak. It too had waves of about 70 days, several of them, with the second, the one in the fall of 1918 through the winter, being the deadliest.

A mathematician should know how a classic differential equation models (describes / predicts) how an outbreak proceeds, and how one of the terms in the equation is influenced by social distancing / business / school closures. This mathematician wrongly used post hoc analysis using statistics w/o reference to the differential equation model and drew a risible conclusion.


3)
The data and statistics prove otherwise that this virus can not be contained in 70 days as...

Singapore did a u turn in their liberal policy by bringing in new stricter lock downs due to exponential growth... hence artificial methods and human intervention was needed ..

China 🇨🇳 has clearly passed the 70 day mark and after close to 90 days they have a resurgence of close to 200 cases in a different province!

Herd immunization sounds great theoretically and is yet to be proven as close to over 100 of patients discharged from hospitals are returning with the resurgence of this disease.. hence it is too early in the day to theories on the behavior of this deadly virus 🦠

Finally there could also be a scenario of not being able to find a 💯 effective antidote come a vaccine ie similar to HIV where the world would have to live with this phenomenon, the difference being that it is more infectious and may become seasonal like influenza although with a 10 times higher fatality..

I feel that no individual or scientist is equipped to theories on the behavior of this virus at this point of time as A . It’s too early in the day plus we are yet to find a vaccine and lack adequate information on its characteristics and behavior... due to the resurgence of the disease plus patients falling sick again.



https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ts-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

My comment ... yup .....a mathematician should know classical differential equations and exponential growth .. key epidemiological concepts.

 

[Gregoryp]

Is it verifiable...no

??? Donald Trump was there along with others at a press conference, it is easily verifiable . She admitted thats exactly what she was doing then walked away and wouldn't answer any more questions

 

[PennEd]

I love stuff like this.......... the best part is the comment section they always provide a good counter balance

1) Terry Chambers - Except this is not a case of mathematical calculations, or haven't you noticed? Math only produces answers on the basis of the figures fed into the equation. This character's theories are based solely on guesswork, nothing else.


2) Several other commentators have pointed out the mistakes, but I will try to expound on them.

First, it was NEVER about the number of days of an outbreak, but how fast and far the contagion spreads and how many die during it. Social distancing w/ closures of public gatherings, businesses, etc. absolutely have been shown to make a difference as was seen during the 1918-20 flu outbreak. It too had waves of about 70 days, several of them, with the second, the one in the fall of 1918 through the winter, being the deadliest.

A mathematician should know how a classic differential equation models (describes / predicts) how an outbreak proceeds, and how one of the terms in the equation is influenced by social distancing / business / school closures. This mathematician wrongly used post hoc analysis using statistics w/o reference to the differential equation model and drew a risible conclusion.


3)
The data and statistics prove otherwise that this virus can not be contained in 70 days as...

Singapore did a u turn in their liberal policy by bringing in new stricter lock downs due to exponential growth... hence artificial methods and human intervention was needed ..

China 🇨🇳 has clearly passed the 70 day mark and after close to 90 days they have a resurgence of close to 200 cases in a different province!

Herd immunization sounds great theoretically and is yet to be proven as close to over 100 of patients discharged from hospitals are returning with the resurgence of this disease.. hence it is too early in the day to theories on the behavior of this deadly virus 🦠

Finally there could also be a scenario of not being able to find a 💯 effective antidote come a vaccine ie similar to HIV where the world would have to live with this phenomenon, the difference being that it is more infectious and may become seasonal like influenza although with a 10 times higher fatality..

I feel that no individual or scientist is equipped to theories on the behavior of this virus at this point of time as A . It’s too early in the day plus we are yet to find a vaccine and lack adequate information on its characteristics and behavior... due to the resurgence of the disease plus patients falling sick again.



https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-i...ts-show-virus-plays-itself-out-after-70-days/

My comment ... yup .....a mathematician should know classical differential equations and exponential growth .. key epidemiological concepts.

Expert lady is relying on the comment section of an article by an expert! Too too funny!

 

[EleventhHour]

Expert lady is relying on the comment section of an article by an expert! Too too funny!

I thought so ...now I am not the expert in this field....but there is one in the family in Montreal analysing on the data.
So far has been spot on...mitigation and containment were absolutely necessary.
Herd immunity not a good goal in the absence of a strong health care system.
South Korea and Taiwan very prepared .....economic loss far less than what what is happening here.

 

[EleventhHour]

Expert lady is relying on the comment section of an article by an expert! Too too funny!

Btw only an epidemiologist would be an expert...he is a mathematician who would lack significant knowledge in the area of virology.

 

[Janeaux]

Janeaux, I understand the sentiment truly I do as some one raised Catholic, but to be clear good works do not save.

Only faith in Christ for salvation, the gift of eternal life is what saves.
Jesus is the source of salvation, not good works.

On this point, we will have to disagree, I am afraid. Faith without works is dead. What is a man if he has faith, but not works? I could go on.

All the Abrahamic faiths are based on both faith and works, except for Protestants. What a sweet deal, but really we are actionable, or Jesus was teaching for three years for nothing.
And, so we are at an impasse over Doctrine.

Once again, let us be inclusive and accept that there is no one truth. Most churches disagree on so many things.

 

[PennEd]

On this point, we will have to disagree, I am afraid. Faith without works is dead. What is a man if he has faith, but not works? I could go on.

All the Abrahamic faiths are based on both faith and works, except for Protestants. What a sweet deal, but really we are actionable, or Jesus was teaching for three years for nothing.
And, so we are at an impasse over Doctrine.

Once again, let us be inclusive and accept that there is no one truth. Most churches disagree on so many things.

No. You are at an impasse over THE gospel! You do not rely SOLELY on Jesus Sacrificial death, burial and resurrection for Salvation.

 

[EleventhHour]

let us be inclusive and accept that there is no one truth.

Jesus stated I am the Way, The Truth and the The Life. No one comes to the Father but through me.

There is only one Truth.

I pray you will see that James is not contradicting Paul he is addressing justification before men, works that give evidence of our salvation.

As a critical thinker you really need to think this through.
If there is more than one way to salvation, then Jesus Christ died in vain.

 

[EleventhHour]

What a sweet deal,

It is.
Believe it.

 

[Absolutely]

 

[wolfwint]

On this point, we will have to disagree, I am afraid. Faith without works is dead. What is a man if he has faith, but not works? I could go on.

All the Abrahamic faiths are based on both faith and works, except for Protestants. What a sweet deal, but really we are actionable, or Jesus was teaching for three years for nothing.
And, so we are at an impasse over Doctrine.

Once again, let us be inclusive and accept that there is no one truth. Most churches disagree on so many things.

So what is the Motivation for the works you do? Is it because you are saved?
For To be saved you need only faith in Christ.
The works are an consequence of it.
Its a different to when you say for to be saved you need faith and works. For the Last understanding Jesus death at the cross was not sufficient.
Is this what you believe?

 

[Janeaux]

I believe what I was taught as a Roman Catholic: Jesus died for my sins. And, that I must follow what Jesus taught while he LIVED, or he LIVED IN VAIN.

Intolerence is an awful thing. Many people leave their faith because of it and that is very sad.
PS: Faith means belief. You either do or you do not. I DO. That said, I do not judge anyone here and it makes me sad that I am being judged for what I was taught and what I believe as a result of those teachings. Jesus did not die in vain. His teachings are central and paramount and if we do not try to follow those teachings, then we cannot call ourselves real Christians. I never see ONE word about Jesus's life and teachings .. why is that? If Jesus thought we couldn't do it/be good enough, then why did He teach about love, compassion, and how we are to BEHAVE. I really believe we have to live our Faith. Faith and works (works to me means trying to do as Jesus asked us) go together.

This will be my last post and I am sure no one will be sorry to see me leave. I wish you all well.

 

[EleventhHour]

I believe what I was taught as a Roman Catholic: Jesus died for my sins. And, that I must follow what Jesus taught while he LIVED, or he LIVED IN VAIN.

Intolerence is an awful thing. Many people leave their faith because of it and that is very sad.
PS: Faith means belief. You either do or you do not. I DO. That said, I do not judge anyone here and it makes me sad that I am being judged for what I was taught and what I believe as a result of those teachings. Jesus did not die in vain. His teachings are central and paramount and if we do not try to follow those teachings, then we cannot call ourselves real Christians. I never see ONE word about Jesus's life and teachings .. why is that? If Jesus thought we couldn't do it/be good enough, then why did He teach about love, compassion, and how we are to BEHAVE. I really believe we have to live our Faith. Faith and works (works to me means trying to do as Jesus asked us) go together.

This will be my last post and I am sure no one will be sorry to see me leave. I wish you all well.

No one wants you to leave.
What you are feeling is a rejection of truth because you think your works are important and part of salvation.
They are not part of salvation.
We we do good but never to be saved... our righteousness is as filthy rags....only Jesus is righteous.

Faith needs an object........Jesus is the object of our faith, we have faith/trust IN Him to save us and give us eternal life as He promised.

You will only be able to do this once you are fully persuaded of His gift of salvation for you and when you know you cannot earn salvation..... because a gift can never be earned.

 

[EleventhHour]

I believe what I was taught as a Roman Catholic: Jesus died for my sins. And, that I must follow what Jesus taught while he LIVED, or he LIVED IN VAIN.

Intolerence is an awful thing. Many people leave their faith because of it and that is very sad.
PS: Faith means belief. You either do or you do not. I DO. That said, I do not judge anyone here and it makes me sad that I am being judged for what I was taught and what I believe as a result of those teachings. Jesus did not die in vain. His teachings are central and paramount and if we do not try to follow those teachings, then we cannot call ourselves real Christians. I never see ONE word about Jesus's life and teachings .. why is that? If Jesus thought we couldn't do it/be good enough, then why did He teach about love, compassion, and how we are to BEHAVE. I really believe we have to live our Faith. Faith and works (works to me means trying to do as Jesus asked us) go together.

This will be my last post and I am sure no one will be sorry to see me leave. I wish you all well.

Perfection.

If you sin just once. Here is the verdict

rom 3: 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..

Here is the good news.

Rom 3: 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Thank you @eternally-gratefull

 

[kaylagrl]

On this point, we will have to disagree, I am afraid. Faith without works is dead. What is a man if he has faith, but not works? I could go on.

All the Abrahamic faiths are based on both faith and works, except for Protestants. What a sweet deal, but really we are actionable, or Jesus was teaching for three years for nothing.
And, so we are at an impasse over Doctrine.

Once again, let us be inclusive and accept that there is no one truth. Most churches disagree on so many things.

Saved BY faith FOR good works. Works save no one, but it is a fruit every Christian should have.