Signs of the Times

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Mii

Mii

Well-known member
#41
Mar 23, 2019
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#41
Magenta said:
Thank you, Mii :) Yeah, I was simply saying that Satan is a liar and Jesus did not explicitly say so at the time... He quoted Deuteronomy :D He certainly did proclaim that judgment at other times :D
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Thanks for confirming. This is where I find myself wanting more varied reactions...but I guess that'd get cluttered :p

I expect people to not see eye to eye on things sometimes, because it definitely occurred in scripture, but both in my personal life and online I've noticed somehow people are completely missing what is being said by another and jumping to conclusions that I find a disturbing trend.

This recently caused a pretty hot argument over the holidays and I just couldn't let it drop, I won't get into it but the other person heard one thing and totally missed what I was saying and with the "funk" in the air I tried to explain but I was wounded at the initial reaction, and this poisoned things in a way I haven't seen in a LONG time.

I know I mishear/misread people also, but I'm inclined to wait for clarification, because since little thing can set me off, I presume the same is true of others.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#42
Jul 24, 2016
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#42
Mii said:
Right it was what he actually did.

I've heard enough debate about each of the temptations to know that it happened that way for a reason. I think you drawing out that it was true that he had the power to give those things to him is quite a claim. Someone doesn't need to really be able to offer us something for us to be tempted into accepting.
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For an offer to be tempting and thus a Temptation the one being tempted MUST believe that the thing being offered is a deliverable item.. Jesus being God manifested in the flesh New if satan could deliver to Him all the Kingdoms of the world or if satan could not deliver Him all the Kingdoms of this world.. If Jesus knew that satan could not deliver to Him all the kingdoms of the world, Jesus would not have possibaly been tempted by satans offer and no temptation would have taken place..



I don't believe @Magenta is claiming that it didn't happen, merely challenging your assertion based off what did occur. I gather that since it was stated later his views on the enemy that doesn't mean he (the enemy) was telling the truth here and making that claim opens up a potential quagmire.
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And what quagmire would that be ?


I can't go deep into it at present, I'm just throwing this out there because your conditional statement is not within defined boundaries. If you care to start a thread and define those boundaries, perhaps more could be said.
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My statement is confined within the boundaries of the scripture detailing the attempt by satan to tempt Jesus.. If you wish to start another thread go for it..
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#43
Jul 24, 2016
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#43
Magenta said:
What? You have misunderstood. Your original claim was to my saying Satan was liar by asserting that Jesus would have said so if he was. Well, He did not in any of the three temptations, Jesus quoted Deuteronomy, as I said. Gosh, you thought I was saying Jesus did not resist Satan? Flabbergast :censored:
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And you have misunderstood.. My comment was in response to the idea that satan lied to Jesus when He offered all the kingdoms of the world. That satan had no ability to deliver all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus because satan did not have that power to do so..

My point was if satan lied and could not deliver the kingdoms of the world for Jesus to rule then Jesus having all knowledge ( Jesus can read minds and knows all the thoughts of satan ) would not have been tempted by satans offer.. Therefore it would not have been a temptation and scripture saying Jesus was tempted would then not be the truth.. Because you cannot be tempted by an offer you know can never be delivered..

At no time in my post was i ever saying or inferring that you Magenta where stating that Jesus did not resist satan.. I believe Jesus did resist satan because satan's offer was a real one.
 
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17Bees

Senior Member
#44
Oct 14, 2016
1,380
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#44
Adstar said:
And you have misunderstood.. My comment was in response to the idea that satan lied to Jesus when He offered all the kingdoms of the world. That satan had no ability to deliver all the kingdoms of the world to Jesus because satan did not have that power to do so..

My point was if satan lied and could not deliver the kingdoms of the world for Jesus to rule then Jesus having all knowledge ( Jesus can read minds and knows all the thoughts of satan ) would not have been tempted by satans offer.. Therefore it would not have been a temptation and scripture saying Jesus was tempted would then not be the truth.. Because you cannot be tempted by an offer you know can never be delivered..

At no time in my post was i ever saying or inferring that you Magenta where stating that Jesus did not resist satan.. I believe Jesus did resist satan because satan's offer was a real one.
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That is kind of an interesting question. I'm leaning towards the concept that Jesus (because of his earthly body) had all the emotions, worldly passions, and bodily functions including fears and doubts, that any human would, but was endowed with the Spirit of God. What a dichotomy that had to have been! And if that's true, then Christ could have known that satan was lying but could have also felt doubt. Otherwise, why would He have never have expressed Himself as the Father and known what the Father knows? He asked why God had forsaken Him in the throes of death.

All this goes to the heart of the trinity of God and the mysteries associated with that. Jesus may very well have had doubt at his most vulnerable moments in the desert. He could have had passion at His most passionate moments or temptations when He was most tempted. But He never transgressed the commandments of God which made Him sinless in the eyes of the Father so that he could leave His life - the blood - at Calvary and flesh and bone could make its ascension to Heaven.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#45
Jul 3, 2015
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#45
Adstar said:
If satan had lied Jesus would have called him out on that lie.. But Jesus just refused satans temptation.. If satans offer was false it would not have been a real temptation for Jesus to refuse..
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I would ask you to please reconsider your positional claim that a person cannot be temped by a lie. You may as well say Satan did not lie to Eve when he tempted her, that the temptation was not real because Satan lied to her. She was deceived because he LIED and she believed him. The temptation was not any less real due to it being based on a falsehood.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#46
Nov 19, 2019
1,772
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#46
HAHA somewhere else I said twice today.. I am looking up more then ever now. Did you know when Jesus raised lazareth He looked up? Praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS.. I'll say it ALSO..come lord JESUS!
 
Mii

Mii

Well-known member
#47
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
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#47
Blade said:
HAHA somewhere else I said twice today.. I am looking up more then ever now. Did you know when Jesus raised lazareth He looked up? Praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS.. I'll say it ALSO..come lord JESUS!
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As did stephen :)
 
B

bojack

Well-known member
#48
Dec 16, 2019
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#48
Adstar said:
There is a spiritual element to the hatred of the Jews.. Having said that there are some justifiable opposition to the modern zionist movement.. But the real hatred of the Jews i believe is inspired by spirits.. Evil Spirits..

God promised that the descendants of Abraham would inherit a Kingdom that includes an area far greater then the modern day state of Israel and is also greater in area then the Kingdom of Israel / Judea in OT times..

I believe satan desires to prove God a liar in regard to His promise to Abraham.. How can satan and his demons attempt to do this? By exterminating all decendants of Abraham.. If all the decendants of Abraham have been killed then there are no decendants for God to give the promised Kingdom to..

The Bible says that the children of disobedience are guided by unGodly spirits..

Ephesians 2: KJV
1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; {2} Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

So why do so many people have a seemingly illogical, pathological hatred for Jews? Because they are being inspired and moved to this level of hate by the spirit that is working on them..
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Well just another day Bro, the Iranian Regime has the official stance to see Israel cease to exist and have attacked US positions in Iraq today .. They have cursed their own heads for cursing Israel ..Tomahawks are being loaded on a ship since last week bound for Iran with more scheduled and the 82nd Airborne from Ft Brag has been deployed ..
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#50
Jul 24, 2016
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#50
Magenta said:
I would ask you to please reconsider your positional claim that a person cannot be temped by a lie. You may as well say Satan did not lie to Eve when he tempted her, that the temptation was not real because Satan lied to her. She was deceived because he LIED and she believed him. The temptation was not any less real due to it being based on a falsehood.
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The difference between Eve and Jesus is that Eve not having to ability to read minds could have been genuinely tempted by satans temptation because she could and did come to the conclusion that satan was telling her the truth about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden..

Jesus on the other hand having the ability to know satans thoughts could never be tempted by a lie from satan.. Jesus would never have been tempted by an offer he knew satan could not deliver on..

If i tried to tempt you Magenta and offered as my temptation to send you $1000 dollars via the internet.. Maybe you would be tempted because you could reasonable come to the conclusion that i could send you $1000 dollars..

But if i offered to drive my car over to the USA and give you a joy rise to Mars in it you would know that cars do not do so good driving over the Pacific Ocean and you would know for certain that no car is going to drive from Earth to the planet Mars.. You would roll your eyes at that offer and would not be tempted by it at all..
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#51
Jul 24, 2016
7,577
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#51
bojack said:
Well just another day Bro, the Iranian Regime has the official stance to see Israel cease to exist and have attacked US positions in Iraq today .. They have cursed their own heads for cursing Israel ..Tomahawks are being loaded on a ship since last week bound for Iran with more scheduled and the 82nd Airborne from Ft Brag has been deployed ..
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Yeah seems like another war is starting up in the middle east... They will never know peace in the islamic world only strife and conflict.. If not with outsiders then between themselves..
 
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