Poope Francis Blesses Homosexual Unions
- Thread starter HealthAndHappiness
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Vatican desperately tries to clean up a mess of its own making (msn.com)
"
The Vatican has entered full damage control mode less than a month after creating mass confusion in December through its document allowing Catholic priests to bless people in same-sex relationships.
On Thursday, the Vatican released a five-page press release attempting to clarify aspects of Fiducia Supplicans, the landmark document that was released last month allowing priests to bless those in gay partnerships outside of any context that could be considered similar to a wedding. The statement comes after a number of bishops conferences, especially from Africa, rebuked the Vatican by refusing to implement the document.
"
"
The Vatican has entered full damage control mode less than a month after creating mass confusion in December through its document allowing Catholic priests to bless people in same-sex relationships.
On Thursday, the Vatican released a five-page press release attempting to clarify aspects of Fiducia Supplicans, the landmark document that was released last month allowing priests to bless those in gay partnerships outside of any context that could be considered similar to a wedding. The statement comes after a number of bishops conferences, especially from Africa, rebuked the Vatican by refusing to implement the document.
"
-
1
-
1
- Show all
@Cameron143, @ZNP , @Smoke , @Nehemiah6, @cv5 @HealthAndHappiness I could swear someone posted recently (I thought I saw it in the "Would you vote for Trump if" thread) that there is research that determined homosexual attraction is a choice, or not genetic, something like that. I forgot to reply to that person up at the time, but now I can't find it. Did any of you write something along those lines or have info on that? thx in advance.
I didn't but I have read studies on the subject before and I found the studies credible, especially against studies from the other perspective. Some empirical evidence is clearly seen in societies where there is greater acceptance of it, there are more who identify as such. This is an argument for nurture over nature.
I did not.
But I'll give my thoughts on the subject. I don't know if finding someone attractive is necessarily a choice, but acting on it is a choice. If I was married, would I suddenly stop finding other women attractive? I don't think so. Does this mean that God consents to my acting on my physical attraction to other women? Absolutely not. Adultery is explicitly a sin. So if I was "born" finding women attractive, it does not make it morally acceptable to act on my attraction for any woman other than my wife.
I am sympathetic towards people who are only attracted to the same sex, but my sympathy doesn't mean I am going to contradict God. It's possible for someone to have same-sex attraction but not act on it just as it's possible for a married man to find other women attractive but not act on it. Ultimately, it's a question of where our morals are derived. If you're a Christian, they should come from Jesus Christ.
I think it's important to acknowledge that the mere attraction to someone is NOT a sin. Acting on it potentially could be though. And for the record, "acting on it" could also be the act of thinking lustful thoughts.
But I'll give my thoughts on the subject. I don't know if finding someone attractive is necessarily a choice, but acting on it is a choice. If I was married, would I suddenly stop finding other women attractive? I don't think so. Does this mean that God consents to my acting on my physical attraction to other women? Absolutely not. Adultery is explicitly a sin. So if I was "born" finding women attractive, it does not make it morally acceptable to act on my attraction for any woman other than my wife.
I am sympathetic towards people who are only attracted to the same sex, but my sympathy doesn't mean I am going to contradict God. It's possible for someone to have same-sex attraction but not act on it just as it's possible for a married man to find other women attractive but not act on it. Ultimately, it's a question of where our morals are derived. If you're a Christian, they should come from Jesus Christ.
I think it's important to acknowledge that the mere attraction to someone is NOT a sin. Acting on it potentially could be though. And for the record, "acting on it" could also be the act of thinking lustful thoughts.
-
1
- Show all
⚡ Lightning Strikes Icon of "Pope" and Blows Hand Off That Holds Keys Reported Day After Francis's Birthday!
As with many stories from the news group linked in blue above, it's pretty lame. But that's who reported on it. Even the RCs consider their father a wicked reprobate.
What do you all think of the lightning strike?
Was it perhaps a message from God, or just a coincidence?
As with many stories from the news group linked in blue above, it's pretty lame. But that's who reported on it. Even the RCs consider their father a wicked reprobate.
What do you all think of the lightning strike?
Was it perhaps a message from God, or just a coincidence?
[QUOTE="Sculpt, post: 5219760, member: ]@HealthAndHappiness[/USER] I could swear someone posted recently (I thought I saw it in the "Would you vote for Trump if" thread) that there is research that determined homosexual attraction is a choice, or not genetic, something like that. I forgot to reply to that person up at the time, but now I can't find it. Did any of you write something along those lines or have info on that? thx in advance.[/QUOTE]
I don't recall posting there.
Do you have a specific question?
I don't know, but maybe there's a Bible answer.
I don't recall posting there.
Do you have a specific question?
I don't know, but maybe there's a Bible answer.
Have any links?
I like to stay up on the research. It's an interesting subject. A biggy is 34.2% of identical twins has discordant sexual orientation. Seems it's a best epigenetic, genetically speaking.
I know the Exodus org had an array of results regarding changing or significantly reducing homosexual attraction. But by-in-large they said, at least with the techniques available at that time, it was a failure for the vast majority.
I like to stay up on the research. It's an interesting subject. A biggy is 34.2% of identical twins has discordant sexual orientation. Seems it's a best epigenetic, genetically speaking.
I know the Exodus org had an array of results regarding changing or significantly reducing homosexual attraction. But by-in-large they said, at least with the techniques available at that time, it was a failure for the vast majority.
-
1
- Show all
I didn't save them but they weren't hard to find.
The research you mention, the number sounded incredibly high compared to what I remember. But research is only as good as the researcher.
Ultimately, groups like Exodus have the same problem AA has: if God doesn't intervene, there will be little success. Changed hearts change lives.
The research you mention, the number sounded incredibly high compared to what I remember. But research is only as good as the researcher.
Ultimately, groups like Exodus have the same problem AA has: if God doesn't intervene, there will be little success. Changed hearts change lives.
Depends on what you mean by success.
I heard about Exodus International from listening to Focus and the Family and other christian radio shows over decades, they'd have guests from Exodus. From what I heard their core was following Christ and the power to do that was from God through Christ and the Holy Spirit. They promoted "change is possible" through Christ. They meant both not doing the behavior and ending homosexual desire. My understanding is there was general success in the former but not in the later.
A person can ask God to take away homosexual desire, but that doesn't mean it will or won't happen. I liken it to Paul asking for the thorn to be removed and being told 'my grace is sufficient'. Some in Exodus engaged in various conversion therapies on top of standard discipleship and prayer. In 2012 the President Alan Chambers apologized that they advertised "a cure" and/or endorsed any of the conversion therapies. And they shut Exodus down. The sub orgs still exist.
I heard about Exodus International from listening to Focus and the Family and other christian radio shows over decades, they'd have guests from Exodus. From what I heard their core was following Christ and the power to do that was from God through Christ and the Holy Spirit. They promoted "change is possible" through Christ. They meant both not doing the behavior and ending homosexual desire. My understanding is there was general success in the former but not in the later.
A person can ask God to take away homosexual desire, but that doesn't mean it will or won't happen. I liken it to Paul asking for the thorn to be removed and being told 'my grace is sufficient'. Some in Exodus engaged in various conversion therapies on top of standard discipleship and prayer. In 2012 the President Alan Chambers apologized that they advertised "a cure" and/or endorsed any of the conversion therapies. And they shut Exodus down. The sub orgs still exist.
A blessing would be an acknowledgement of the people living in what they call a mortal sin. A mortal sin is a big sin that condemns one to hell and a venal sin is what they consider a smaller one that can be atoned for through suffering in their prefatory and participating in the sacraments of the RC church while alive. They consider Marriage a sacrament. Another sacrament is their eucharist/ mass. They consider that an ongoing sacrifice of Christ where the literal body and blood, in mystical hidden form, is conveyed to the priest as he does his ritual.
That said, those who commit mortal sins are not allowed to participate in taking communion, participating in mass. That essentially condemns them to hell forever according to the RC teachings.
It's a works based religion that believes that people must work their way to heaven, or time off of pergatory (temporary hell.)
However, the Bible teaches,
"10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;...
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. "
Nobody can bless anyone else with eternal life except for God. He offers that blessing, that free gift, through the only sacrifice that matters to him. That sacrifice was Himself upon the cross. He then took His life back again on the third day and offers that same life to all who believe on Him. Any sacrament offered is null and void. God rejects every sacrament offered by Catholics, protestants and every other person.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that, not if yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works...."
I wasn't so sure if I would go to heaven if I died at that point.
When I read that for myself as a teenager, I decided that is exactly what I wanted.
Now I'm sure. How about you friend?
That said, those who commit mortal sins are not allowed to participate in taking communion, participating in mass. That essentially condemns them to hell forever according to the RC teachings.
It's a works based religion that believes that people must work their way to heaven, or time off of pergatory (temporary hell.)
However, the Bible teaches,
"10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;...
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. "
Nobody can bless anyone else with eternal life except for God. He offers that blessing, that free gift, through the only sacrifice that matters to him. That sacrifice was Himself upon the cross. He then took His life back again on the third day and offers that same life to all who believe on Him. Any sacrament offered is null and void. God rejects every sacrament offered by Catholics, protestants and every other person.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that, not if yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works...."
I wasn't so sure if I would go to heaven if I died at that point.
When I read that for myself as a teenager, I decided that is exactly what I wanted.
Now I'm sure. How about you friend?
-
1
- Show all
I agree that getting out of the lifestyle would be easier than the desire. But that's true of any sin. One is usually taken care of by salvation, and the other by ongoing sanctification. My only point was that apart from the circumcision of the heart, neither is possible. Salvation, not human discipline is the answer.
-
2
- Show all
Thanks, H&H! 1. So, is it a gay couple goes to their Priest and asks for a "blessing" of their living together and having sex, and then the Priest performs a ritual by which they are forgiven of this sin, they can continue doing it, and they are than allowed to partake in the sacraments?
2. Curious about a Mortal sin in the RC. If you commit it, can you ever be forgiven? If so, how?
3. Is it a Mortal sin to partake in the sacraments if you've committed a Mortal sin? Or is it a Mortal sin to have premarital sex? Or both?
4. I see someone wrote a Mortal sin has these three:
2. Curious about a Mortal sin in the RC. If you commit it, can you ever be forgiven? If so, how?
3. Is it a Mortal sin to partake in the sacraments if you've committed a Mortal sin? Or is it a Mortal sin to have premarital sex? Or both?
4. I see someone wrote a Mortal sin has these three:
- It is a grave matter.
- The person knows that it is wrong.
- The person freely chooses it anyways.
I can say that from first-hand experience, the only way to overcome sins that are beyond our own power to control is to surrender them to our Savior (i.e. the "sanctification" you reference). Salvation, release from this sinful body/mind/heart, is the ultimate answer as risen saints in Christ.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
It's been a long time since I left Catholicism, so I can't accurately speak to how the priests handle their openly homosexual members. A flaming homosexual married a cousin and he attended with her. He probably didn't go around his church proclaiming he's gay, but it was obvious at family reunions. The guys in the family didn't want anything to do with him or his boyfriend.
There's a program that requires a background check, references, and a long class with lots of testimonies by criminally convicted homos. It's called VIRTUS.
In the VIRTUS program for all employees, they basically give the queer priests a pass and make it sound like it's all normal with a percentage of the population and extremely exceptional with their priesthood, overblown by the protestants.
During a class, I asked the principal of a parochial school if the church officially considers sodomy a grave/ mortal sin these days or not. He said they teach same sex minor attraction is not considered a sin but rather a sickness. That's the latest.
There's a program that requires a background check, references, and a long class with lots of testimonies by criminally convicted homos. It's called VIRTUS.
In the VIRTUS program for all employees, they basically give the queer priests a pass and make it sound like it's all normal with a percentage of the population and extremely exceptional with their priesthood, overblown by the protestants.
During a class, I asked the principal of a parochial school if the church officially considers sodomy a grave/ mortal sin these days or not. He said they teach same sex minor attraction is not considered a sin but rather a sickness. That's the latest.
-
1
- Show all