Israel Declares War

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Paul was writing to the believers in Rome and the surrounding area of his day, hence the title "Letter to the Romans" see that word YOU, he was writing about what was in their future but our past.

See that word Israel is was ancient Israel not present day Israel.

I really do believe Paul was not a liar.

In conclusion,
I side with truth
and not delusion!

Have a good day Mr. Gideon.

Unconditional, everlasting covenant. If you side with the "truth" then you side with that. Has the end of Romans 11 been fulfilled? Nope! So it's future.

 

[Smoke]

Somebody laughed at this? .

View attachment 257356

That was me, I meant to do the information emoji. Hit refresh. I do think it's an unfair comparison. I just wanted to repeat the same lines I keep hearing.

I do believe if it's war or a school shooting scenario, we should treat life as precious.

 

[Magenta]

Pointing out similarities is not suggesting they are the same. Hamas is a terrorist organization and I've said
I don't think Israel is a terrorist state, though they are committing war crimes which are terroristic in nature.

Yes, please, let's have a war with no fear or terror involved, and where nobody gets killed, raped, taken hostage, tortured etc.

 

[HeIsHere]

False Equivalence - the fallacy of apples and oranges:

1.) Although we should always have compassion for innocent life, it is nonetheless a false equivalence to compare a school shooting to a war.

2.) A war, just or unjust, is a different category, and should be debated according to the principles and issues which apply.

3.) I'm not claiming it's not open to debate; I'm claiming that logic still applies when everyone is upset... whether we like it or not.



It's a good time to remind everyone, that this absence of logic is the very reason that Jews around the world, who had no involvement in any of this, are suddenly being targeted and attacked.

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It was an analogy not an equivalency there is a difference.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Here you go....

Gen 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Gen 17:8
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

 

[Smoke]

Yes, please, let's have a war with no fear or terror involved, and where nobody gets killed, raped, taken hostage, tortured etc.

I was referencing the West Bank and East Jerusalem where there is illegal settling, detentions, and killings.

Apparently it's not a war crime to blow up more civilians than terrorists, so I wasn't referencing that.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

And here you go:

Deut. 28:15-68 (ESV)

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you. 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in all that you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and perish quickly on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken me. 21 The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought[a] and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And the heavens over your head shall be bronze, and the earth under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder. From heaven dust shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them. And you shall be a horror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And your dead body shall be food for all birds of the air and for the beasts of the earth, and there shall be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, and with tumors and scabs and itch, of which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of mind, 29 and you shall grope at noonday, as the blind grope in darkness, and you shall not prosper in your ways.[b] And you shall be only oppressed and robbed continually, and there shall be no one to help you. 30 You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall ravish her. You shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it. You shall plant a vineyard, but you shall not enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat any of it. Your donkey shall be seized before your face, but shall not be restored to you. Your sheep shall be given to your enemies, but there shall be no one to help you. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, while your eyes look on and fail with longing for them all day long, but you shall be helpless. 33 A nation that you have not known shall eat up the fruit of your ground and of all your labors, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually, 34 so that you are driven mad by the sights that your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you on the knees and on the legs with grievous boils of which you cannot be healed, from the sole of your foot to the crown of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and your king whom you set over you to a nation that neither you nor your fathers have known. And there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone. 37 And you shall become a horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away. 38 You shall carry much seed into the field and shall gather in little, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and dress them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes, for the worm shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil, for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall father sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours, for they shall go into captivity. 42 The cricket[c] shall possess all your trees and the fruit of your ground. 43 The sojourner who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, and you shall not lend to him. He shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you. 46 They shall be a sign and a wonder against you and your offspring forever. 47 Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the end of the earth, swooping down like the eagle, a nation whose language you do not understand, 50 a hard-faced nation who shall not respect the old or show mercy to the young. 51 It shall eat the offspring of your cattle and the fruit of your ground, until you are destroyed; it also shall not leave you grain, wine, or oil, the increase of your herds or the young of your flock, until they have caused you to perish.

52 “They shall besiege you in all your towns, until your high and fortified walls, in which you trusted, come down throughout all your land. And they shall besiege you in all your towns throughout all your land, which the Lord your God has given you. 53 And you shall eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your sons and daughters, whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemies shall distress you. 54 The man who is the most tender and refined among you will begrudge food to his brother, to the wife he embraces,[d] and to the last of the children whom he has left, 55 so that he will not give to any of them any of the flesh of his children whom he is eating, because he has nothing else left, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in all your towns. 56 The most tender and refined woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because she is so delicate and tender, will begrudge to the husband she embraces,[e] to her son and to her daughter, 57 her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears, because lacking everything she will eat them secretly, in the siege and in the distress with which your enemy shall distress you in your towns.

58 “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, the Lord your God, 59 then the Lord will bring on you and your offspring extraordinary afflictions, afflictions severe and lasting, and sicknesses grievous and lasting. 60 And he will bring upon you again all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Every sickness also and every affliction that is not recorded in the book of this law, the Lord will bring upon you, until you are destroyed. 62 Whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, you shall be left few in number, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.

64 “And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known. 65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the Lord will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see. 68 And the Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

Abrhamic Covenant, everlasting and unconditional.

 

[Magenta]

It was an analogy not an equivalency there is a difference.

It was a stupid comparison/analogy any way you look at it.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Yep, I understand you have no evidence to back up what you say, many thanks

The covenant was everlasting and unconditional, what's not to understand?! Romans 11 makes it 100% clear. The job fell to Christians to spread the Gospel, of course. Jews are blinded for a time. God will keep His promise to the Jews.

 

[maxwel]

It was an analogy not an equivalency there is a difference.

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An analogy, by definition, is used to show similarities... equivalences.



Sometimes people would be better served by just saying, "oops, this subject gets me riled up", and move on.

We're all human, and we all get emotional.
(I'm presuming we're all human. I've been wrong before.)


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[HeIsHere]

That was me, I meant to do the information emoji. Hit refresh. I do think it's an unfair comparison. I just wanted to repeat the same lines I keep hearing.

I do believe if it's war or a school shooting scenario, we should treat life as precious.

They can's see the analogy because they cannot accept there are innocent civilians.

In there mind everyone is culpable, everyone is guilty, along with this very uninformed view that Israel is trying to avoid civilians,
thinking everyone is guilty is a very dangerous view.

The irony here is this was the same narrative used pre WW II Germany.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It was an analogy not an equivalency there is a difference.

Doesn't work as an analogy either.

 

[Smoke]

.
An analogy, by definition, is used to show similarities... equivalences.



Sometimes people would be better served by just saying, "oops, this subject gets me riled up", and move on.

We're all human, and we all get emotional.
(I'm presuming we're all human. I've been wrong before.)


.

e·quiv·a·lence
/əˈkwiv(ə)ləns/
noun
plural noun: equivalences
the condition of being equal or equivalent in value, worth, function, etc.

I disagree that "similarities" and "equivalences" are the same thing though. You can compare to show similarities but acknowledge it's not an equivalence.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They can's see the analogy because they cannot accept there are innocent civilians.

In there mind everyone is culpable, everyone is guilty, along with this very uninformed view that Israel is trying to avoid civilians,
thinking everyone is guilty is a very dangerous view.

The irony here is this was the same narrative used pre WW II Germany.

Literally no one here has said that. So keep arguing with yourself.

 

[HeIsHere]

.
An analogy, by definition, is used to show similarities... equivalences.



Sometimes people would be better served by just saying, "oops, this subject gets me riled up", and move on.

We're all human, and we all get emotional.
(I'm presuming we're all human. I've been wrong before.)


.

They are similar but not identical.
When I see the word equivalent, I think of numbers.

Do as you please, I prefer to defend my beliefs and what are in the facts of the situation.

 

[Magenta]

Do as you please, I prefer to defend my beliefs and what are in the facts of the situation.

You misrepresent facts.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They are similar but not identical.
When I see the word equivalent, I think of numbers.

Do as you please, I prefer to defend my beliefs and what are in the facts of the situation.

It is not similar, it's not the same in any way. The point made no sense. Why are you defending it?

 

[maxwel]

e·quiv·a·lence
/əˈkwiv(ə)ləns/
noun
plural noun: equivalences
the condition of being equal or equivalent in value, worth, function, etc.

I disagree that "similarities" and "equivalences" are the same thing though. You can compare to show similarities but acknowledge it's not an equivalence.

1.) To be similar means to have some properties or attributes which are "in some way" THE SAME... otherwise no similarity would exist.

2.) When we use analogies we are by definition comparing things which are similar, meaning we are specifically comparing some particular aspects which are THE SAME in some way.


If we need to, I'll just go back through the previous posts, word by word, and show the false equivalence piece by piece, bit by bit.

But is that really necessary?


You posted about the school shooting thing, intentionally, to show an equivalence... you did that quite intentionally.
I get that you were upset.
Everyone here is upset.
It's alright.
How about we let it go.

.

 

[Smoke]

1.) To be similar means to have some properties or attributes which are "in some way" THE SAME... otherwise no similarity would exist.

2.) When we use analogies we are by definition comparing things which are similar, meaning we are specifically comparing some particular aspects which are THE SAME in some way.


If we need to, I'll just go back through the previous posts, word by word, and show the false equivalence piece by piece, bit by bit.

But is that really necessary?


You posted about the school shooting thing, intentionally, to show an equivalence... you did that quite intentionally.
I get that you were upset.
Everyone here is upset.
It's alright.
How about we let it go.

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1.) Yes, and I do think there are some similarities with her analogy. Namely, a terrorist pointing a gun at a child is not unlike Hamas doing the same thing.

2.) I also agree that analogies are comparison (not equivalences).

I didn't bring that analogy up. I did immaturely repeat common talking points in response. My apologies for that. I can't claim to speak for her own thoughts. I don't think she was trying to say it was an equivalence though.

 

[Handyman62]

Forums like this make it very easy to separate the wheat from the chaff and having wheat like
ThereRoseaLamb and others is a real blessing. I don't have the stomach to consume much chaff so I have put at least 5 members of the chaff brigade on hide since this forum started and more will soon follow.

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