Civil war coming to America?

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In the event of a coup or a takeover, would you take up arms to restore lawful authority to America?

  • Yes. I would take up arms until every last traitor was rounded up and put on trial.

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • Yes, but in a limited manner. I would take up arms to protect my community from traitors.

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • No, I would not take up arms, unless my family was directly threatened.

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • No, I would not take up arms. All forms of killing are sin.

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Other. The above actions do not properly describe the action I would take.

    Votes: 15 51.7%

  • Total voters
    29

rastai

Active member
Aug 15, 2020
208
70
28
#61
No. The assassination of Ferdinand and his wife was just lighting a very short fuse. It's convenient you'd leave out Britain's imperial colonization of countries spanning 5 continents at the time not to even mention France and their role in European nationalism. Germany was all to eager to join a fight, especially against France (after the Prussian war) and Russia. Britain joined France after the invasion through and the dominos fell, not because of Franz and his lovely wife, but because of independence. Freedom. Or at least a perception of freedom if nothing else.

Which brings me to another short fuse. President Trump lost the election and did an historically horrible stupid thing and instigated what turned into a riot on the Capitol building - something everyone resoundingly condemned But instead of understanding Trump's or his 73 million supporter's anger or suspicions in the process or remembering the 4 years of constant investigations and impeachment proceedings and condemnation of everything the party and the man has done, President elect Biden condemns all the people involved in the march on Washington and refers to them as stupid and misinformed. Then the Speaker of the House plans to impeach Trump of his 12 remaining days left in the office of insurrection.

This may not light a fuse - I don't know. But it doesn't help. It doesn't teach. It isn't leadership. It doesn't look inward nor does it forgive. But it is the history that repeats itself.
Without serious consequences people will think you can storm the capital and attempt a resurrection and get away with it. Reports are trump was giddy when the rioters started to storm the capital and he was confused why no one else was. Seems like was in favor of the attempted execution of Pence, Pelosi and others. If so should it be forgiven without consequence?
 
Nov 15, 2020
1,897
362
83
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
#62
Maybe we were hoping evil wouldn’t win?
not having a go at you, but everytime something happens in America, the people react.
It's a repeat cycle.
For the people to enter the white house maybe not the best idea, but they did something.
I find American politics difficult to fully understand anyway, but looking in, from the outside, I think something has to change, or something has to be done.
Change the voting system to the one used here in Australia and Britain ?
I dunno maybe.
What would it take to actually unite, a "United" states of America ?
For me, Biden is a step backwards.
So an example of what i mean, is Australia's liberal party gets stuff done, whereas labour wants to go backwards.
The liberal party would be trump, and labour is Biden.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,398
6,737
113
#63
right now, there is little to nothing that would make us the untied states again..
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#64
No he hasn't, Trump inherited an economy that was on the rebound during Pres. Obama's terms of office after the 2008 crash.

The stimulus package that the Obama admin brought in that was administered by Joe Biden shows an upward swing when Agent Orange came into office:

View attachment 224293
If you want to believe that lie...
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#66
not having a go at you, but everytime something happens in America, the people react.
It's a repeat cycle.
For the people to enter the white house maybe not the best idea, but they did something.
I find American politics difficult to fully understand anyway, but looking in, from the outside, I think something has to change, or something has to be done.
Change the voting system to the one used here in Australia and Britain ?
I dunno maybe.
What would it take to actually unite, a "United" states of America ?
For me, Biden is a step backwards.
So an example of what i mean, is Australia's liberal party gets stuff done, whereas labour wants to go backwards.
The liberal party would be trump, and labour is Biden.
80 million to 100 million people voted for trump..not sure what else we could have done. I don’t think anyone really thought they would resort to actually stealing the election...but why not? They have the msm in their back pockets and that has worked spectacularly well for them.

Look how the msm takes people they don’t agree with down and gives a pass to o, lets say blm or antifa..those people can riot and loot for months on end..the revolving door of arrests and releases. Yet..people enter the capital building and they are the worst criminals in history...lol! No thinking person believes that. Unfortunately some people really do live their lives off the msm and believe all their lies and nonsense. How does one get that person to see it differently? That’s the question I think.

I don’t know how its done in Australia or Britain..but it seems like, at least in Britain, its as big a joke. Most Britains voted for Brexit and yet how many years later...are they haggling over it? Barely able to finally get it moving with Boris Johnson..and he comes up with covid and is a different Boris to the one who was fighting for Brexit? Did they threaten him while he was quarantined? Is that why Britain is on a strict lockdown now...punishment for Brexit?

I saw a video about a lady who questioned covid maybe? Can’t remember the details but the police went to her house and arrested her..she was pregnant..this was in Australia..it seems to me that you have police who are willing to arrest otherwise law abiding citizens for the crime of saying what they think. Australia seems to me to be on the way to just agreeing with the leftists who they elect.

I think the media and the politicans in America do a good job in setting people against each other..if we are too busy fighting each other...we’ll leave them alone. But then again...how can you fight the state who can destroy your life? One would have to be desperate with no where else to go...and I wonder what will happen when they lift the moratorium on eviction and foreclosures..
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#67
Facts are facts, you can search for the data yourself.
https://apnews.com/article/c7c4ee4c39394b5cbbad6a432d86dcc1

However...if Obama was really all that good...why did it take more than 8 years and into trumps term for his policies to start to work and America become great again? He presided over the presidency he and the swamp wanted...America in decline and never great again. Is it any wonder that the person running to make America great again...made America prosperous again...I don’t think so.
 
K

KT88

Guest
#68
That's an opinion piece by a right wing writer.

However...if Obama was really all that good...why did it take more than 8 years and into trumps term for his policies to start to work and America become great again? He presided over the presidency he and the swamp wanted...America in decline and never great again. Is it any wonder that the person running to make America great again...made America prosperous again...I don’t think so.
Because you don't undo the effects of something like the 2008 crash overnight. As soon as Pres. Obama office the Gop party vowed to fight tooth and nail against everything he tried to do.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#69
That's an opinion piece by a right wing writer.



Because you don't undo the effects of something like the 2008 crash overnight. As soon as Pres. Obama office the Gop party vowed to fight tooth and nail against everything he tried to do.
Lol! Trump got into office and was able to grow the ecconomy almost right away..but he did it will ending trade deals that hurt America and brought back companies to America...while obama and biden sold out to China. Makes sense really when you look at it the correct way.
 
K

KT88

Guest
#70
Lol! Trump got into office and was able to grow the ecconomy almost right away..but he did it will ending trade deals that hurt America and brought back companies to America...while obama and biden sold out to China. Makes sense really when you look at it the correct way.
Not really, the trend in GNP was heading upwards during Pres. Obama office, trump inherited that. That's what the graph I posted shows.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#71
Lol! Trump got into office and was able to grow the ecconomy almost right away..but he did it will ending trade deals that hurt America and brought back companies to America...while obama and biden sold out to China. Makes sense really when you look at it the correct way.
First of all the President cannot bring back companies to America.
It has to do with monetary policy and with regards to economy the president has far less control than you realize.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#72
Not really, the trend in GNP was heading upwards during Pres. Obama office, trump inherited that. That's what the graph I posted shows.

Tell us more about how Obama created recovery

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal has been widely ridiculed for its massive disruption to the economy and a price tag of tens of trillions of dollars.

Now some Democrats are countering that this isn’t the first Green New Deal in America. They point to President Obama’s fiscal stimulus plan of 2009-2010 as an example of how spreading around tax dollars for green energy programs can be good for the environment and the economy.

Think again. By every objective criteria confirmed by every independent investigation, the avalanche of green dollars in Obama’s first term was a colossal waste of money. In all, Obama (and George W. Bush before him) spent some $100 billion on giveaways to wind and solar power producers, electric cars and for weatherizing homes and buildings. It was arguably one of the largest corporate welfare experiments in American history, enriching an industry and its investors. Most of this money went for research to speed up commercial applications of green energy or was pipelined into bank accounts of individual companies.

The most infamous of these was, of course, Solyndra, the solar energy company that received $530 million of taxpayer handouts and was touted many times by Obama, and Vice President Joe Biden, as the next big thing in green energy. It never produced any energy to speak of before it went bankrupt.

This is an article by CNN


$500 million down the tubes. Quite a recovery. And that is just one of many financial scandals the Obama gov created
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#73
First of all the President cannot bring back companies to America.
It has to do with monetary policy and with regards to economy the president has far less control than you realize.
He can make policies and trade agreements that would help companies here in American...so in that sense he can bring them back.

Not really, the trend in GNP was heading upwards during Pres. Obama office, trump inherited that. That's what the graph I posted shows.
No..trump inherited a declining America..hence the make America great again maga campaign that got trump elected in the first place...and the guy delivered...
U.S. Unemployment Rate Falls to 50-Year Low
The Trump Administration’s pro-growth agenda provides job creators with the framework they need to expand their businesses and offer more opportunities for workers.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/u-s-unemployment-rate-falls-50-year-low/

This is what the left has hated trump for....he was able to make America great again.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#74
They point to President Obama’s fiscal stimulus plan of 2009-2010 as an example of how spreading around tax dollars for green energy programs can be good for the environment and the economy.
Was that the bill they had to pass to see what was in it?
 
K

KT88

Guest
#75
Lol! Trump got into office and was able to grow the ecconomy almost right away..but he did it will ending trade deals that hurt America and brought back companies to America...while obama and biden sold out to China. Makes sense really when you look at it the correct way.
Here's another chart showing unemployment rate, they peak after after the 2008 crash then the rate declines all the way into trumps term of office, it then shoots right up due to covid.

Them's the facts based on data.

unem.jpg
Source:

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm
 
K

KT88

Guest
#76
No..trump inherited a declining America..hence the make America great again maga campaign that got trump elected in the first place...and the guy delivered...
No he didn't, the economy was rising and unemployment rates were declining. The Graph from the whitehouse article you gave shows that:



U.S. Unemployment Rate Falls to 50-Year Low
The Trump Administration’s pro-growth agenda provides job creators with the framework they need to expand their businesses and offer more opportunities for workers.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/u-s-unemployment-rate-falls-50-year-low/

This is what the left has hated trump for....he was able to make America great again.
Wrong conclusion.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#77
He can make policies and trade agreements that would help companies here in American...so in that sense he can bring them back.
Believe as you will, but from an economics point of view Trump's tax cuts
on corporate profits incentivized offshoring for some types of production and it also raised after-tax profits causing a surge in the American dollar.
Overvaluation of the American dollar counters any attempt to reshore American manufacturing.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#78
Capitol Report
Obama alumni shed light on why so little was done to aid homeowners in crisis
Published: Feb. 11, 2016 at 4:45 p.m. ET
By
Greg Robb
Neither banks nor government had $750 billion to fund the program

A foreclosure eviction in Milliken, Colo.
Getty Images
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WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — It is widely known that the Obama administration considered helping underwater homeowners in the wake of the financial crisis but backed away from doing all that much. Administration officials have been tight-lipped about the closed-door deliberations involved.
But now, in the waning days of the administration, some former officials are being more forthright.
“The reasons the actions weren’t bigger and bolder is we didn’t have $800 billion,” said Austan Goolsbee, Obama’s first Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, at an event sponsored by the Brookings Institution. “All of the issues we knew about, we were talking about them,” Goolsbee said.
But, he said, there was $750 billion of negative equity in the system. Congress made clear that it wouldn’t foot the bill, and “you couldn’t stick $750 billion of losses onto the banks — that would have wiped them out,” Goolsbee said.
Instead, the administration settled on a $50 billion Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP, to help struggling homeowners at risk of foreclosure, Goolsbee said. The administration also started the Home Affordable Refinance Program, or HARP.
Alan Krueger, who was chief economist at the Treasury Department before replacing Goolsbee at the CEA, said he would have opposed any massive bailout of underwater homeowners.
He argued that the Tea Party was launched as a result of the smaller HAMP program and a bigger problem would have caused more trouble.
“It would have been extremely unfair, and created problems down the road, to bail out homeowners who were irresponsible and took on homes they couldn’t afford,” Krueger said. “Think about what the public reaction would have been to writing checks to your brother-in-law with the expectation that the value would always go up.”


So Solyndra got 500 million. And the money disappeared. Just one of many failed and embarrassingly acute dismissals of the truth of the corrupt Obama admin.

Now let's talk about gun running. In which American guns were used to kill Americans by non-Americans
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#79
Here's another chart showing unemployment rate, they peak after after the 2008 crash then the rate declines all the way into trumps term of office, it then shoots right up due to covid.

Them's the facts based on data.

View attachment 224388
Source:

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm
They crashed...when Obama became president....he and Biden were too busy with China to make America great again...but when trump came..he renegotiated a better trade deal with China..one that was starting to maga!!
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#80
No he didn't, the economy was rising and unemployment rates were declining. The Graph from the whitehouse article you gave shows that:





Wrong conclusion.
You have the wrong conclusion...those are unemployment rates...you want them to go down and not up..when they go up you have high unemployment.

Additionally, the unemployment rate for people without a high school diploma fell to 4.8 percent, the lowest rate since the series began in 1992 and much lower than the 7.8 percent rate in November 2016 (figure 1). Since President Trump’s election, the unemployment rate for those without a high school degree has fallen at a faster rate than the unemployment rate for those with a bachelor’s degree or higher. The decrease has narrowed the gap between the unemployment rate for non-high school graduates and the unemployment rate for college graduates to 2.8 percentage points, matching the lowest gap ever seen in the series.