Basic income

[Smoke]

The only people who want extremely complicated tax codes that we have are the wealthy (they can afford tax consultants that know the loopholes), CPA's being an expert in this justifies their high salaries, and the IRS (again the code requires quite a few extra jobs)

Sales tax is simple, would all but eliminate CPA's and IRS and the loopholes that the Billionaires use.

It is stupid to tax corporations which is why there are "tax havens". What you want are corporations to be successful, to be profitable, and to employ a lot of people. It is stupid to have complicated income tax rules. Property tax makes sense and sales tax makes sense.

You can discourage people from buying luxury items or hummers, or some other item that is deemed harmful by simply putting a higher sales tax on it. Billionaires who don't want to pay tax on multimillion dollar yachts and mansions can instead invest the money which in turn creates jobs and helps the economy.

Sales tax is simple to administer and is transparent to the people. If you want to buy a Mercedes and they are charging 50 or 60% tax on the car the people will be wondering why the government is spending so much money. It is a naturally regulating system where those who are generally the best educated and tuned into politics would see the biggest cost from big government.

Our current tax code is upside down where Warren Buffet pays less in tax than his secretary.

I agree with virtually everything you wrote with the exception of one thing (and even then we might actually agree)... If we did a higher commercial tax it would drastically simplify the tax code and all corporations would be on equal footing. However, it's not stupid to tax the current tax-free corporations as long as we are taxing mom and pop shops. Ideally we both agree neither should be taxed, but if one is being taxed, the other should as well.

The government shouldn't have the right to pick winners and losers, yet it does.

 

[ZNP]

I agree with virtually everything you wrote with the exception of one thing (and even then we might actually agree)... If we did a higher commercial tax it would drastically simplify the tax code and all corporations would be on equal footing. However, it's not stupid to tax the current tax-free corporations as long as we are taxing mom and pop shops. Ideally we both agree neither should be taxed, but if one is being taxed, the other should as well.

The government shouldn't have the right to pick winners and losers, yet it does.

The problem with taxing corporations is you give places like the Bahamas and Ireland an opportunity to set up tax havens.

You encourage the corporations to move off shore taking their jobs with them. If you are exclusively a sales tax you encourage people to cross the border to buy stuff, for 90% of us that is far too difficult and costly to be a real issue. Still, to make it more effective you would want Canada and Mexico to have the same tax structure.

This will lead to "one world government". When you have one leader, one currency, they will be selling the mark of the beast as a much more efficient and equitable way to do this.

 

[ZNP]

Consider Google as an example

Google is a company composed of many server farms filled with computers. They would have paid sales tax on everything they bought.

Then Google makes money by selling ad space, that would also be taxed with a a sales tax.

If you buy the servers in the US or build your server farm in the US all of those things you buy would be taxed with sales tax. If you sell ad time that is seen in the US that also would be taxed.

 

[DWR]

What all seem to ignore is that in the end the consumer pays ALL taxes.
Every company and corporation invest money with the hope of a certain return on that investment. People invest in corporations with the hope of that investment growing in value.
Any increase in expenses, being it labor cost, material cost, or taxes, must be added to the selling price so as to keep that return on investment where needed.
I know this is true because I spent 45 years in the construction business and am a silent partner with my daughter in a fast food business.
ALL taxes are paid by the consumer.

 

[ZNP]

What all seem to ignore is that in the end the consumer pays ALL taxes.
Every company and corporation invest money with the hope of a certain return on that investment. People invest in corporations with the hope of that investment growing in value.
Any increase in expenses, being it labor cost, material cost, or taxes, must be added to the selling price so as to keep that return on investment where needed.
I know this is true because I spent 45 years in the construction business and am a silent partner with my daughter in a fast food business.
ALL taxes are paid by the consumer.

Exactly, so what you want is the simplest tax code eliminating layers and layers of bureaucracy and waste and the most transparent tax so that everyone on a daily basis can see the tax the government is taking. Sales tax does that.

You also want a very flexible tax code so that milk and bread can have 0% sales tax while a Hummer can have 50% sales tax. Sales tax is the most flexible.

It is also the most transparent. A tax on billionaires is not a sales tax on milk, or diapers, it is a tax on yachts, private planes, etc.

 

[DWR]

So back to basic income.
The Scripture says one who does not work should not eat.
So zero to those who are to lazy to work.
But what is basic? What is included in basic?
I am sure those supporting this have a different idea than I do.

I live in Arkansas that has a very low cost of living in you stay away from the NW corner of the state.
The state minimum wage is $11 per hour. That is $23,000 per year.
Seems every business ignore that and is paying $14 per hour and more trying to find help.
The local McDonald is offering $14 to $17 to start and can not find help.

My point is that there is no need for a basic income.
People just need to get off their lazy butts and go to work.

 

[ZNP]

So back to basic income.
The Scripture says one who does not work should not eat.
So zero to those who are to lazy to work.
But what is basic? What is included in basic?
I am sure those supporting this have a different idea than I do.

I live in Arkansas that has a very low cost of living in you stay away from the NW corner of the state.
The state minimum wage is $11 per hour. That is $23,000 per year.
Seems every business ignore that and is paying $14 per hour and more trying to find help.
The local McDonald is offering $14 to $17 to start and can not find help.

My point is that there is no need for a basic income.
People just need to get off their lazy butts and go to work.

I would add a little NT compassion to this verse as no verse is of its own interpretation.

Matthew 20:
20 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

1. Instead of an hourly wage people should be paid a daily wage, now this is not for someone who chooses to be part time but rather for those who wish to be full time. If you pay someone for four hours of work at minimum wage it is almost not worth it. How do you pay for someone to watch you kids, pay for your transportation, pay for your lunch, and then all you get is your measly pay minus the taxes and social security and you don't qualify for health benefits.

2. Pay everyone a minimum daily wage regardless of capability. We have special ed people who want to work, there is dignity in working. It is something society should do.

 

[DWR]

I would add a little NT compassion to this verse as no verse is of its own interpretation.

Matthew 20:
20 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

1. Instead of an hourly wage people should be paid a daily wage, now this is not for someone who chooses to be part time but rather for those who wish to be full time. If you pay someone for four hours of work at minimum wage it is almost not worth it. How do you pay for someone to watch you kids, pay for your transportation, pay for your lunch, and then all you get is your measly pay minus the taxes and social security and you don't qualify for health benefits.

2. Pay everyone a minimum daily wage regardless of capability. We have special ed people who want to work, there is dignity in working. It is something society should do.

And what you you call a fare daily wage?
At $14 per hour that will be $112 per day and $560 per week.
That seem more than fair to me.
Also remember that ALL employees will have to be given an equal raise.

 

[ZNP]

Also remember that ALL employees will have to be given an equal raise.

Why? The Lord's word is for day laborers, not for people who are salaried employees. He wasn't talking about the steward. This is minimum wage workers.

 

[DWR]

Why? The Lord's word is for day laborers, not for people who are salaried employees. He wasn't talking about the steward. This is minimum wage workers.

OK, so those making $11 per hour get a raise to $14.
So if I now make $18 because of my time on the job and greater production, I should not get an equal raise?
Is that really fair?

 

[ZNP]

OK, so those making $11 per hour get a raise to $14.
So if I now make $18 because of my time on the job and greater production, I should not get an equal raise?
Is that really fair?

Are you a day laborer?

The lowest rung should be a day laborer, if the boss likes you they offer you a position with a better pay package. What you are looking at is the safety net, the minimum wage everyone gets. Work hard, get hired and you will be worth more than the minimum. But even if you are really not very capable you can still go to this day laborer spot and get a days wage every day.

In the school system this would be a sub. If I work as a full time teacher I have much more responsibilities and much more pressure than a sub. A sub doesn't have to make lesson plans, is not rated based on the criteria of other teachers, etc. Some people, especially those who are retired like to do a little subbing. There is no reason to give them a raise. It is a standard pay for all subs. But once you become a full time teacher there is a negotiated framework whereby you get periodic raises.

 

[DWR]

Why? The Lord's word is for day laborers, not for people who are salaried employees. He wasn't talking about the steward. This is minimum wage workers.

Last January the minimum wage in Arkansas increased $1 per hour, from $10 to $11.
My daughter had 2 new employees that were making minimum that got the increase.
She thought it only fair that her other 56 employees should also receive a $1 per hour raise.
She will no doubt have to give them a $3 per hour raise since the new standard is now $14.

She may have to just close all 5 stores down because she will not be able to raise prices enough to still make a profit.

 

[DWR]

Are you a day laborer?

The lowest rung should be a day laborer, if the boss likes you they offer you a position with a better pay package. What you are looking at is the safety net, the minimum wage everyone gets. Work hard, get hired and you will be worth more than the minimum. But even if you are really not very capable you can still go to this day laborer spot and get a days wage every day.

In the school system this would be a sub. If I work as a full time teacher I have much more responsibilities and much more pressure than a sub. A sub doesn't have to make lesson plans, is not rated based on the criteria of other teachers, etc. Some people, especially those who are retired like to do a little subbing. There is no reason to give them a raise. It is a standard pay for all subs. But once you become a full time teacher there is a negotiated framework whereby you get periodic raises.

I bet you that if those sub got a 30% raise those full time teachers would demand a big raise also.

 

[DWR]

Don't get me wrong. People should be paid a fair wage for the work they do.
But everyone need to understand that employers see it as a cost and every time that cost go up it will be passed on to the consumer.
But there is a point that the consumer will just say the product offered is not worth the price.
When that happens, everyone will be unemployed.

 

[ZNP]

Last January the minimum wage in Arkansas increased $1 per hour, from $10 to $11.
My daughter had 2 new employees that were making minimum that got the increase.
She thought it only fair that her other 56 employees should also receive a $1 per hour raise.
She will no doubt have to give them a $3 per hour raise since the new standard is now $14.

She may have to just close all 5 stores down because she will not be able to raise prices enough to still make a profit.

It is a scam to raise minimum wage because once you raise the minimum wage all the other wages will go up and all the various labor costs will be factored in so everything else goes up in price as well.

There is a very simple reason why we have inflation -- the people in charge of the money are thieves.

Once you bring in the kingdom of heavens if you still have wages and laborers there will be a "daily wage" that is the standard minimum wage. You won't see inflation because the leaders will not be crooks.

 

[MatthewWestfieldUK]

It's no good. Politicians say tax the rich, then throw the burden on small business owners instead of the actual rich - since that would include themselves, after all.

The political system is full of fakes that are focused on funding for themselves. The suck up to big companies

 

[Pureness]

Do anybody here know what stimulus money have to do with Christian chat because I'm confused

 

[ZNP]

Do anybody here know what stimulus money have to do with Christian chat because I'm confused

This is a News forum, we discuss news. A $2 trillion spending bill is relevant to citizens of this country. There are many threads discussing the Bible and other topics, if you are looking for Bible study I suggest you go to one of those threads.

 

[Pureness]

This is a News forum, we discuss news. A $2 trillion spending bill is relevant to citizens of this country. There are many threads discussing the Bible and other topics, if you are looking for Bible study I suggest you go to one of those threads.

Maybe you should Google what type of chat your looking for specifically. This is Christian chat, not political chat. God bless dear.🙏🙏

 

[ZNP]

Maybe you should Google what type of chat your looking for specifically. This is Christian chat, not political chat. God bless dear.🙏🙏

Do we need to spell it out for you? The book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel both present a vision of one world government, a tyrannical government where every person is completely controlled by the tyrant, they control what you buy or sell and if you refuse the mark of the beast they decapitate you.

Therefore as Christians who are watching for the appearing of the Lord we are quite concerned with any movement towards this one world government. If everyone in the world depends on the government for a minimum salary then the government has just gotten bigger, more powerful and can punish anyone who refuses to comply. That was what the first post mentioned and it is in this Stimulus bill.

God bless granny