Grace Alone
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remember the good old days when the music forum was not the BDF? 
But unfortunately a lot of people get affected by what others say.
But we all have a journey to make and face God someday. This whole separation from God is difficult and i pray we all go under His wings soon.
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That's your eisegesis yet in John 15:2, we read that Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit, but Jesus says nothing about branches that start out bearing fruit but then later not bear fruit anymore. Those who fail to abide have no spiritual and vital connection with Christ as the vine.
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The only way anybody can believe OSAS doctrine is to only believe a select few passages and then throw the rest of God's Word in the trash and totally ignore it.
Of course you haven't! OSAS people are taught by their handlers to believe Jesus was teaching law to the Jews and His teachings don't apply to Christians.
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Those that Turned Away from the Lord
Example of what not to do... these are God's Warnings to Christians!
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. *By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)
Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)
2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
*** WHO... is to make our election sure??? - That’s right, WE are!
Of course you haven't! OSAS people are taught by their handlers to believe Jesus was teaching law to the Jews and His teachings don't apply to Christians.
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Those that Turned Away from the Lord
Example of what not to do... these are God's Warnings to Christians!
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. *By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)
Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)
2 Peter 1:4-10
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
*** WHO... is to make our election sure??? - That’s right, WE are!
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Jesus is like Noah's Ark... as long as one is abiding IN the Ark they are saved.
Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless the REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)
The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.
Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!
Sinful behavior is throwing one's self overboard and since they are no longer in the safety of the Ark (abiding IN Christ)... they are not longer on their way to Heaven but are once again on their way to hell.... unless the REPENT, confessing their sin to the Lord and forsaking their sin so they can be cleansed of unrighteousness and once again be back in right standing with the Father (see Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9) just like the prodigal son who dead while away but alive once again when he returned to the Father. (see Luke 15:24-26)
The smart ones know this and abide IN Christ so they aren't cut off as Jesus told us about in John 15 which is what happens to those that do not abide IN Him.
Those that follow false doctrines that ignore the teachings of Jesus... well, not much hope for them and when they get where they are going, they will regret their false doctrine for all eternity!
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In these modern times... many are claiming to be Christian and they live outside of the safety of abiding IN Christ,
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. ***
WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus????
That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus????
That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. ***
WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus????
That’s right, WE are!
John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus????
That’s right, WE are!
John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!
Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
I see... So, Christians are free to live in sin
I hear that from many of the OSAS peoples as they continually argue in favor of being able to live in sin as though they had never been born again and then claim they are saved anyway.
It makes the devil and all his demons so happy to hear the OSAS peoples claim they can walk after the flesh and not reap the corruption Gal 6:7,8 says they would reap which is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8
I hear that from many of the OSAS peoples as they continually argue in favor of being able to live in sin as though they had never been born again and then claim they are saved anyway.
It makes the devil and all his demons so happy to hear the OSAS peoples claim they can walk after the flesh and not reap the corruption Gal 6:7,8 says they would reap which is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8
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You don't see. Regardless of how many times it is explained to you. You continue to conflate eternal security and ongoing sin.
Eternal security is a matter of salvation. On-going sin is a matter of sanctification. You also seem to know alot about what makes the devil and his pals happy. But you at least have some decent graphics.
Eternal security is a matter of salvation. On-going sin is a matter of sanctification. You also seem to know alot about what makes the devil and his pals happy. But you at least have some decent graphics.
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Do you claim sinless perfection?
1 John 1:8-10~ If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His Word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10~ If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His Word is not in us.
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@JimmyTheLock
@mailmandan
@Magenta
Let's see if you all can come into one accord on this. Let me know if you both agree with the conclusion of the short video below that explains the faith works issue. Do you agree? Note anything you disagree with.
The video provides the scriptural foundation and context. So, please watch the video for this first. He basically says "works" come with living faith in Christ Jesus. It's not works that save, and not merely spoken words, but believing, the faith in Christ Jesus that saves.
@mailmandan
@Magenta
Let's see if you all can come into one accord on this. Let me know if you both agree with the conclusion of the short video below that explains the faith works issue. Do you agree? Note anything you disagree with.
The video provides the scriptural foundation and context. So, please watch the video for this first. He basically says "works" come with living faith in Christ Jesus. It's not works that save, and not merely spoken words, but believing, the faith in Christ Jesus that saves.
This guy is an a apologist for calvinism (go look at his other videos) so he's in fact a false teacher and he confuses things thru double speak which is what calvinists do...
He will ultimately teach that God doesn't want all to be saved and God decides to only allow a few to be saved and He decides all others will go to hell and will have NO opportunity to get saved.... so his claim that good works follow faith is only directed at calvinists and he'll also teach that man has nothing to do with the good works that the Lord does it all by himself and we are non-participant bystanders... all of which is false doctrine.
Calvinists believe in the false doctrine of limited atonement so he believes that only a few can get saved.
Jesus also said thru the Apostle James to "be ye DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22)
The Lord expects His people to DO some stuff after getting born again... in fact, getting born again requires some good work on our part which of course the Lord empowers us to do... but we have to make the decision to either submit to Him or not to submit to him.
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
If it were by faith alone and no action is required on our part... then Jesus would not have said “let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” in Luke 9:23.
Only living faith saves, since faith without works is dead... faith alone is not saving faith because there's no good fruit being produced by that faith because it is dead as in the person is not acting like their faith is true and real. Folks that believe this are deceived according to James 1:22.
God does not accept dead faith as that faith is no better than the devil’s faith! (James 2:19)
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
Philippians 4:13 tells us "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me" so this agrees with John 15 that the Lord is the One bearing good fruit thru us IF we are co laborers with the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us (Romans 8:14) and IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us (Romans 8:9)
Matthew 7:18,19
A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Reckon Jesus didn't get the memo from the so called reformers that salvation is by faith only??? (see James 2:14-26)
The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Obviously according to God's Word ....one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.
Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).
Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)
Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers??? That tis the question!
He will ultimately teach that God doesn't want all to be saved and God decides to only allow a few to be saved and He decides all others will go to hell and will have NO opportunity to get saved.... so his claim that good works follow faith is only directed at calvinists and he'll also teach that man has nothing to do with the good works that the Lord does it all by himself and we are non-participant bystanders... all of which is false doctrine.
Calvinists believe in the false doctrine of limited atonement so he believes that only a few can get saved.
Jesus also said thru the Apostle James to "be ye DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22)
The Lord expects His people to DO some stuff after getting born again... in fact, getting born again requires some good work on our part which of course the Lord empowers us to do... but we have to make the decision to either submit to Him or not to submit to him.
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
If it were by faith alone and no action is required on our part... then Jesus would not have said “let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” in Luke 9:23.
Only living faith saves, since faith without works is dead... faith alone is not saving faith because there's no good fruit being produced by that faith because it is dead as in the person is not acting like their faith is true and real. Folks that believe this are deceived according to James 1:22.
God does not accept dead faith as that faith is no better than the devil’s faith! (James 2:19)
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
Philippians 4:13 tells us "I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me" so this agrees with John 15 that the Lord is the One bearing good fruit thru us IF we are co laborers with the Lord and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us (Romans 8:14) and IF we allow the Holy Spirit to live in us (Romans 8:9)
Matthew 7:18,19
A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Reckon Jesus didn't get the memo from the so called reformers that salvation is by faith only??? (see James 2:14-26)
The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Obviously according to God's Word ....one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.
Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).
Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)
Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers??? That tis the question!
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