The sin of refusing sex

[Magenta]

Something about saying the wife is supposed to submit rubs me the wrong way. I learned that a wife and husband are supposed to have a “partnership in god, which means the husband helps the wife when she needs it, and the wife helps the husband when he needs it”, I learned it a long time ago at church, and I feel this is correct.

When you look at Middle eastern and eastern countries, like Japan, where the husband has all the authority and final say on everything, I just don’t think that is healthy.

I’m sorry if I misinterpreted your words, but I felt like I needed to speak out, all Christian marriages I’ve seen, the husband and wife are on equal terms, no one is “submitting” to each other.

And so it should when the other half is left off, for men are to submit to their wives, also

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Sure, ever hear a sermon on that? Nope. Ever hear an adult Sunday school lesson on that? Nope. So if we don't talk about it, how can we deal with these issues?

You would set all their teeth on edge. I remember one time at a church I used to attend. A fellow was standing there with me and another married man, and he was telling us that he had gotten a hot tube and was ready to try it out. I said, I guess y'all gonna get grandma to watch the babies. They acted like I said had cursed their soul. I was amazed at how taboo even the very insinuation that a married couple may want some private intimate time was to them.
After that I started noticing how many of the men in that church were emasculated. An example of that is when I was explaining to one fellow how to install a pet door in the door to his garage. His wife walks up during the conversion and says, you can not do that, we are hiring a professional. I didn't stick around there long.

 

[Encouragement]

Another thing that would help is for men to stop looking at porn, and learn how to actually bring satisfaction to his wife, and for her to learn to help out with the timing and communication.

This is so Intresting because sexual sin happens with Christian marriages like porn..constantly lusting after other people,private sexual fantasies about someone else..even when having sex one can even be imaging they are having sex with someone else ect all kinda things can be going on which can have a huge impact on a couples sex life..erctile dysfunction/changes in ones sex drive...even fear of pregnancy and much more things can be going on...I guess couples should be able to open up about such things to each other without shame ur guilt and support each other with Gods help.

occassionally one spouse may not feel sexy anymore and can develop feelings of body dysmorphic traits..one woman said she would prefer to have sex with the lights off..coz of not liking how her body looked naked..!!
God is interested in EVERY PART of a married couples lives and yes he knows exactly what things are affecting a couples sex life..It's up to a couple to be aware of this and come to him with struggles in their sex lives

 

[kaylagrl]

You would set all their teeth on edge. I remember one time at a church I used to attend. A fellow was standing there with me and another married man, and he was telling us that he had gotten a hot tube and was ready to try it out. I said, I guess y'all gonna get grandma to watch the babies. They acted like I said had cursed their soul. I was amazed at how taboo even the very insinuation that a married couple may want some private intimate time was to them.
After that I started noticing how many of the men in that church were emasculated. An example of that is when I was explaining to one fellow how to install a pet door in the door to his garage. His wife walks up during the conversion and says, you can not do that, we are hiring a professional. I didn't stick around there long.

Funny you mentioned that. I was ministering in a church and went out to eat with the pastor and his wife after. I don't know how the subject came up but the wife said there was a lady in the church that said she didn't want to think that her pastor and his wife had sex. She said to the pastors wife " No, no, my pastor does not have sex!!" I said "So how does she think your three kids got here?!" She laughed and said she had no idea. I know there is a fine line when discussing these things. But it's extremely immature to not be able to handle discussions about sex between a married couple. As I said, this taboo has led to a lot of marital issues because no one wants to be open about the subject.

 

[kaylagrl]

This is so Intresting because sexual sin happens with Christian marriages like porn..constantly lusting after other people,private sexual fantasies about someone else..even when having sex one can even be imaging they are having sex with someone else ect all kinda things can be going on which can have a huge impact on a couples sex life..erctile dysfunction/changes in ones sex drive...even fear of pregnancy and much more things can be going on...I guess couples should be able to open up about such things to each other without shame ur guilt and support each other with Gods help.

occassionally one spouse may not feel sexy anymore and can develop feelings of body dysmorphic traits..one woman said she would prefer to have sex with the lights off..coz of not liking how her body looked naked..!!
God is interested in EVERY PART of a married couples lives and yes he knows exactly what things are affecting a couples sex life..It's up to a couple to be aware of this and come to him with struggles in their sex lives

I agree with all you've said. But we need to be more open and honest in the church about these issues. And marriage counseling in the church is extremely lacking. I recall when my sister and her husband went to their pastor for counseling his best advice was "fight naked, that way you can't stay mad at each other." I mean, seriously.

 

[Encouragement]

I agree with all you've said. But we need to be more open and honest in the church about these issues. And marriage counseling in the church is extremely lacking. I recall when my sister and her husband went to their pastor for counseling his best advice was "fight naked, that way you can't stay mad at each other." I mean, seriously.

Hi Kaylagrl...I had to chuckle at you're last comment...😂😂😂😂😂..what on earth was that pastor on about....Yes its just crazy..It's made me roll my eyes.
Yes I totally agree that sexual matters should be discussed much more openly in a way that is appropriate cox in comparison theres just so much around about the wrongness of sex before marriage ect..Yet where sex 'IS' permitted within marriage there seems to be a kind of hush..I can only assume many couples try and deal with things themselves rather than seek help as sex can feel a very private and personal for many.
Yet there still should be a kind if set up where sexual issues can be discussed in a way that is clean,healty and maturely.
Matters of such physically intimate matters may just be too uncomfortable to talk about and I think those who are getting married should be able to chat about sexual matters.
For example..sex is a ministry and there can be so much pressure on guy to get it right everytime and also for females to be satisfied everytime....but real life doeznt always work out like that.Some can even be all stressed and anxious about their honeymoon night coz of having wrong expectations ect and would love to not have sex at all that night..
"I guess the famous...not tonight love I gotta headache routine could come in handy"

 

[Jimbone]

Where? Where does she learn that?? The church is still treating sex within a marriage like it's a dirty thing to be discussed. Meanwhile marriages are falling apart because they think they are the only ones.

I don't disagree with that. That may very well be exactly how it is in your church and I agree that it's a wrong way to look at sex. I'm with what you're saying here. The thing is I don't see how that at all ties in with what I was saying, or my point at all.

The comment was worded in a way kind of like what you're doing here, a point about how men (husbands) might need to chill on the porn and maybe be more attentive and helpful to her needs, and my only point was that it's not only men that her advise could benefit seeing as how women struggle with these same things as well. I think you kind of make the same kind of sweeping mistake when you say
" Where? Where does she learn that?? The church is still treating sex within a marriage like it's a dirty thing to be discussed. Meanwhile marriages are falling apart because they think they are the only ones."

I understand fully what you're saying and why you're saying it. In popular "Christianity" is as you say. So I don't want you to think I'm disagreeing with your point at all. My problem with your comment to me is the sweeping way you say that as if ALL church's are like that. There are many many churches that talk about sex no problem in biblical context any time. So the same way I can't say to you, "in church sex it talked about openly given the respect that this gift that God granted us to share together in a specific context, one man, one woman, bonded together until death parts them.

Like I said, I agree with you about how the church has treated sex for a long while now ,making it a dirty thing period, instead of a beautiful awesome gift God gave us, use d in the way He says. the thing is I don't see how that has anything to do with my point that it's not just men that struggle with the sins that were listed, and that wives could also be more considerate of the mans needs as well, because it can go back and forth in my experience. I find such genius perfection in Gods design when followed by His grace. When I'm weak and start to cross a line, or get a bit over excited she's there to grab my arm and help me to realize and see my mistakes, and then when the roles are reversed and she vis having a weak moment getting impatient with a server or something when we lock eyes, and with my expression can tell her "maybe you're being a bit hard on them."

So I appreciate your comment, I just think you might have misunderstood what I was saying, or I was just the trigger for some repressed wrongdoing, but i agree with the point you made and hope you have a great day today.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I don't disagree with that. That may very well be exactly how it is in your church and I agree that it's a wrong way to look at sex. I'm with what you're saying here. The thing is I don't see how that at all ties in with what I was saying, or my point at all.

The comment was worded in a way kind of like what you're doing here, a point about how men (husbands) might need to chill on the porn and maybe be more attentive and helpful to her needs, and my only point was that it's not only men that her advise could benefit seeing as how women struggle with these same things as well. I think you kind of make the same kind of sweeping mistake when you say
" Where? Where does she learn that?? The church is still treating sex within a marriage like it's a dirty thing to be discussed. Meanwhile marriages are falling apart because they think they are the only ones."

I understand fully what you're saying and why you're saying it. In popular "Christianity" is as you say. So I don't want you to think I'm disagreeing with your point at all. My problem with your comment to me is the sweeping way you say that as if ALL church's are like that. There are many many churches that talk about sex no problem in biblical context any time. So the same way I can't say to you, "in church sex it talked about openly given the respect that this gift that God granted us to share together in a specific context, one man, one woman, bonded together until death parts them.

Like I said, I agree with you about how the church has treated sex for a long while now ,making it a dirty thing period, instead of a beautiful awesome gift God gave us, use d in the way He says. the thing is I don't see how that has anything to do with my point that it's not just men that struggle with the sins that were listed, and that wives could also be more considerate of the mans needs as well, because it can go back and forth in my experience. I find such genius perfection in Gods design when followed by His grace. When I'm weak and start to cross a line, or get a bit over excited she's there to grab my arm and help me to realize and see my mistakes, and then when the roles are reversed and she vis having a weak moment getting impatient with a server or something when we lock eyes, and with my expression can tell her "maybe you're being a bit hard on them."

So I appreciate your comment, I just think you might have misunderstood what I was saying, or I was just the trigger for some repressed wrongdoing, but i agree with the point you made and hope you have a great day today.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-porn...s to pornography,the same level of commitment.
I think this link will help you to understand why pornography is primarily a problem among men.

 

[Jimbone]

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-porn-gap-gender-differences-in-pornography-use-in-couple-relationships#:~:text=When it comes to pornography,the same level of commitment.
I think this link will help you to understand why pornography is primarily a problem among men.

The word "primarily" COMPLETLY backs up what I'm saying. I never said ANYTHING about the ratio, nor anything like that at all. I'm not sure why you're trying to "gotcha!" me here, all you did was back up my point that men aren't the only one's that may be able to work on the specific issues mentioned. That happens to be 100% true, even in the source you provided. Thanks, and I didn't even limit my point to porn only in my original post. Your taking a very simple FACT I'm saying and trying to prove me wrong? why? I'm 10000% right and there is no refuting it, even your own argument proves it. Women suffer from the same thing, on a smaller scale of course, but my point was NEVER about any of that. Please stop nit picking to be right, or to try to swoop in to save a girl, besides what you're talking about HAS NOTHING AT ALL to do with what I was saying to her. Man it's getting harder to post on here. I hate this pointless, completely irrelevant to the conversation "teaching" you're doing here. Can you even tell me why you even felt the need to "prove" a point that has nothing to do with either one of the points I made. You just seem board with a superiority complex.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

The word "primarily" COMPLETLY backs up what I'm saying. I never said ANYTHING about the ratio, nor anything like that at all. I'm not sure why you're trying to "gotcha!" me here, all you did was back up my point that men aren't the only one's that may be able to work on the specific issues mentioned. That happens to be 100% true, even in the source you provided. Thanks, and I didn't even limit my point to porn only in my original post. Your taking a very simple FACT I'm saying and trying to prove me wrong? why? I'm 10000% right and there is no refuting it, even your own argument proves it. Women suffer from the same thing, on a smaller scale of course, but my point was NEVER about any of that. Please stop nit picking to be right, or to try to swoop in to save a girl, besides what you're talking about HAS NOTHING AT ALL to do with what I was saying to her. Man it's getting harder to post on here. I hate this pointless, completely irrelevant to the conversation "teaching" you're doing here. Can you even tell me why you even felt the need to "prove" a point that has nothing to do with either one of the points I made. You just seem board with a superiority complex.

I'm not trying to gotcha, simply supplying information to help with perspective understanding. I'm not sure why you are being so defensive. This is just a conversation.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Why do you suppose the man is not doing this? Maybe the wife needs to learn that. Right?

You see where you addressed me here. All I was intending to do was continue the conversation. But hey, we don't ever have to speak to one another on here again if that suits you.

 

[Jimbone]

You see where you addressed me here. All I was intending to do was continue the conversation. But hey, we don't ever have to speak to one another on here again if that suits you.

You're right. I was way over defensive towards you personally when my frustration was not with you or your comment really at all. Ironically my frustration with how when we make any kind of comment at all, it's met with list of ways you are wrong, misunderstanding, heretical, just plain stupid, on and on. You may know what I'm talking about, but it's particularly annoying to me personally when I'm being corrected for things and arguments I never said or made.

In this case I ran across the original comment I replied to. It was a comment that seemed to me to describe a few problems found amoungst many men and said it in a way that seemed to me completely relegated it to men only and almost made it sound like all men. I replied to that comment simply making the point that there are women out there that could take that advice as well. That was it. My only point. Then when she responded it was about how the church views sex and the problem with that viewpoint, as if I talked about that at all, I didn't, then you came in talking about how more men were addicted to porn, as if I had said anything about that at all, I didn't.

So I kind of took it like being attacked with straw man arguments, just because a fair maiden was under attack. Now this was just how I felt, but doesn't justify how hard I was coming back at you. I'm sorry for getting so snappy with you. I do hope you have a good day in Jesus name.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You're right. I was way over defensive towards you personally when my frustration was not with you or your comment really at all. Ironically my frustration with how when we make any kind of comment at all, it's met with list of ways you are wrong, misunderstanding, heretical, just plain stupid, on and on. You may know what I'm talking about, but it's particularly annoying to me personally when I'm being corrected for things and arguments I never said or made.

In this case I ran across the original comment I replied to. It was a comment that seemed to me to describe a few problems found amoungst many men and said it in a way that seemed to me completely relegated it to men only and almost made it sound like all men. I replied to that comment simply making the point that there are women out there that could take that advice as well. That was it. My only point. Then when she responded it was about how the church views sex and the problem with that viewpoint, as if I talked about that at all, I didn't, then you came in talking about how more men were addicted to porn, as if I had said anything about that at all, I didn't.

So I kind of took it like being attacked with straw man arguments, just because a fair maiden was under attack. Now this was just how I felt, but doesn't justify how hard I was coming back at you. I'm sorry for getting so snappy with you. I do hope you have a good day in Jesus name.

I full well understand. It goes that way a lot around here. I hope to engage in conversation with out all that even though I am guilty at times. Better honesty than continue in miscommunication. So if we are cool I am cool. I promise to do my best to have a conversation with you rather than a debate, argument, and one upsmanship.

 

[kaylagrl]

I don't disagree with that. That may very well be exactly how it is in your church and I agree that it's a wrong way to look at sex. I'm with what you're saying here. The thing is I don't see how that at all ties in with what I was saying, or my point at all.

The comment was worded in a way kind of like what you're doing here, a point about how men (husbands) might need to chill on the porn and maybe be more attentive and helpful to her needs, and my only point was that it's not only men that her advise could benefit seeing as how women struggle with these same things as well. I think you kind of make the same kind of sweeping mistake when you say
" Where? Where does she learn that?? The church is still treating sex within a marriage like it's a dirty thing to be discussed. Meanwhile marriages are falling apart because they think they are the only ones."

I understand fully what you're saying and why you're saying it. In popular "Christianity" is as you say. So I don't want you to think I'm disagreeing with your point at all. My problem with your comment to me is the sweeping way you say that as if ALL church's are like that. There are many many churches that talk about sex no problem in biblical context any time. So the same way I can't say to you, "in church sex it talked about openly given the respect that this gift that God granted us to share together in a specific context, one man, one woman, bonded together until death parts them.

Like I said, I agree with you about how the church has treated sex for a long while now ,making it a dirty thing period, instead of a beautiful awesome gift God gave us, use d in the way He says. the thing is I don't see how that has anything to do with my point that it's not just men that struggle with the sins that were listed, and that wives could also be more considerate of the mans needs as well, because it can go back and forth in my experience. I find such genius perfection in Gods design when followed by His grace. When I'm weak and start to cross a line, or get a bit over excited she's there to grab my arm and help me to realize and see my mistakes, and then when the roles are reversed and she vis having a weak moment getting impatient with a server or something when we lock eyes, and with my expression can tell her "maybe you're being a bit hard on them."

So I appreciate your comment, I just think you might have misunderstood what I was saying, or I was just the trigger for some repressed wrongdoing, but i agree with the point you made and hope you have a great day today.

Ok, let's slow the roll here. You were not some "trigger" of a repressed memory. Nor do I need anyone to "rescue the girl" I have a wonderful husband for that. You went way too deep into what I was saying. My point was and remains that the church not open about sex in marriage. I have traveled in ministry and seen so many marriages falling apart. They don't want to go to a secular counselor but almost can never find the help they need within the church. I love my pastor and wife, but if I was having marriage issues, sexual issues in particular, I don't know who I would go to for help. The high rate of divorce in the church shows we are sorely lacking in this area. I wasn't knocking what you were saying. My point is these issues need to be more openly talked about in the church. There should be marriage sessions for adults only to help people be able to speak openly about whatever they are struggling with.

 

[kaylagrl]

In this case I ran across the original comment I replied to. It was a comment that seemed to me to describe a few problems found amoungst many men and said it in a way that seemed to me completely relegated it to men only and almost made it sound like all men. I replied to that comment simply making the point that there are women out there that could take that advice as well. That was it. My only point. Then when she responded it was about how the church views sex and the problem with that viewpoint, as if I talked about that at all, I didn't, then you came in talking about how more men were addicted to porn, as if I had said anything about that at all, I didn't.

Here's how the convo went... Blackpowder said people need to be careful of who they marry.

Me -Yes, that is true. But that still doesn't mean you won't have issues. And sexual issues are one of the most problematic issues within marriages. Especially in Christian marriages where it seems to be taboo to deal honestly and openly with problems. I don't know that it would be a sin to refuse sex, but in a healthy and happy marriage, partners should not be refusing each other without good reason. That is what the verse is saying.



BP-Another thing that would help is for men to stop looking at porn, and learn how to actually bring satisfaction to his wife, and for her to learn to help out with the timing and communication.


Me-Sure, ever hear a sermon on that? Nope. Ever hear an adult Sunday school lesson on that? Nope. So if we don't talk about it, how can we deal with these issues?

You said " Why do you suppose the man is not doing this? Maybe the wife needs to learn that. Right?"


Me-Where? Where does she learn that?? The church is still treating sex within a marriage like it's a dirty thing to be discussed. Meanwhile marriages are falling apart because they think they are the only ones.

Now, kindly point to me where I said, or hinted all men did anything?! I didn't say anything about men at all. So what are you talking about??

So I kind of took it like being attacked with straw man arguments, just because a fair maiden was under attack.

I didn't see it as an attack and you've seen me on here long enough to know I don't need anyone to speak for me or to defend me. In fact, I've taken the opposite opinion of most of the women here and stood with the male that started this thread. So I have no idea what in the world you are talking about. Feel free to enlighten me.

 

[Jimbone]

Ok, let's slow the roll here. You were not some "trigger" of a repressed memory. Nor do I need anyone to "rescue the girl" I have a wonderful husband for that. You went way too deep into what I was saying. My point was and remains that the church not open about sex in marriage. I have traveled in ministry and seen so many marriages falling apart. They don't want to go to a secular counselor but almost can never find the help they need within the church. I love my pastor and wife, but if I was having marriage issues, sexual issues in particular, I don't know who I would go to for help. The high rate of divorce in the church shows we are sorely lacking in this area. I wasn't knocking what you were saying. My point is these issues need to be more openly talked about in the church. There should be marriage sessions for adults only to help people be able to speak openly about whatever they are struggling with.

I didn't mean to go "to deep into what you were saying. To be honest I agree with every word of it. I just don't believe it has anything at all to do with the 1 teny tiny little point that I was making, which after all this seem really silly, stupid, and way to obvious a fact, that by stating it, I did start all this. mad:--->me)
I see now and I'm sorry, by making that 1 little comment about an obvious fact that no one was disputing I am actually guilty of the very thing I'm calling others out for. Wow.--->me.

Man.....


I am not good at this internet conversation stuff I guess. I think I might just need to hang it up. Even when trying so hard to be clear, cool, concise, and believing myself to be pretty on top of things, as far as His Spirit guiding me, just to realize I'm just being the same exact hypocrite and starting the very pointless, waste of time, shamefully representation of my God, crap I want to see stop, that's why I talk about this stuff so much, but still end up just being the very thing I hate, while hypocritically speak against the very thing I'm doing. I can't stand it, but am part of the problem here.

I love you guy, and am sorry for starting this. I pray in Jesus name that His Spirit draw you and your families ever closer to Himself each day to glorify Himself in each on of you. For His glory. Amen.

 

[kaylagrl]

I didn't mean to go "to deep into what you were saying. To be honest I agree with every word of it. I just don't believe it has anything at all to do with the 1 teny tiny little point that I was making, which after all this seem really silly, stupid, and way to obvious a fact, that by stating it, I did start all this. mad:--->me)
I see now and I'm sorry, by making that 1 little comment about an obvious fact that no one was disputing I am actually guilty of the very thing I'm calling others out for. Wow.--->me.

I'm not even sure I got the point you were making. I think I blew past it. Sorry. Can you make the point again?

Man.....


I am not good at this internet conversation stuff I guess. I think I might just need to hang it up. Even when trying so hard to be clear, cool, concise, and believing myself to be pretty on top of things, as far as His Spirit guiding me, just to realize I'm just being the same exact hypocrite and starting the very pointless, waste of time, shamefully representation of my God, crap I want to see stop, that's why I talk about this stuff so much, but still end up just being the very thing I hate, while hypocritically speak against the very thing I'm doing. I can't stand it, but am part of the problem here.

I love you guy, and am sorry for starting this. I pray in Jesus name that His Spirit draw you and your families ever closer to Himself each day to glorify Himself in each on of you. For His glory. Amen.

Nah, no one is good at internet convos. I've had to apologize for things I've written to my husband! I said "how could you have taken me so wrong?!" Then I realized he can't see my face, hear my tone of voice, know when I an joking or serious. So I've resolved that if I need to talk to anyone seriously, I will do it face to face. Even I have noticed with people wearing masks that you cannot see expression. People seem on edge and angry and I believe that is part of it. No worries. If we all met and sat down in a coffee shop I think we'd find we agree far more than we disagree. Have a blessed day brother.

 

[Godsgirl83]

I am not good at this internet conversation stuff I guess. I think I might just need to hang it up.

hey Jimbone,
don't hang it up.
I think we all have our moments of "internet conversation" gone wrong. It is really hard to convey everything you want to say through post like these.
I for one enjoy reading your post (and I think I get what you are saying through most of them). And from what I have noticed on reactions to your post, I'm not the only one.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

The average CC conversation consists of each person having a "point" that they feel is important to the conversation. And since everyone has their own focus, that is often disconnected from everyone else's point, it falls apart quickly. There are three people all trying to make a point and being focused solely on that, while the others don't see how it connects to their point.
Because the focus of the conversation isn't the topic at hand, yet the individual points each person wants to make.
A conversation can't move forward when the totality of the conversation is ignored in favor of the sliver each person zooms in on.
Want the conversation to move forward? Don't isolate one part of the conversation, but keep it more broad. Don't focus on how important what You want to say is.

 

[Elyse78]

I Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.[/QUOTE

my husband has full control and can take me any time he wants me and I do not ever say no. It makes our relationship so good. Morning noon or night he can have me however he wants. It is an incredible sex life. Better than before I decided to repent and fully submit.