Next Big Debate, Obergefell v. Hodges, Gay Marriage

[Klement]

Maybe not in yours. Seriously. I never said the words I quoted of John Adams were in the US Constitution. The context of the statement is in the very statement.

Ok so we agree if a person uses the constitution as politically weight in a debate, this quote is not part of the actual contents of the constitution, right?

 

[CS1]

This is actually a good point, if I may expand. Population is an issue in the US, as is divorce, because it destroys economic stability (mostly for men) and creates a mass housing issue.

60% divorces means huge numbers of men homeless or looking for new homes.

Welfare was the tool to break up the family.

It was given to women to help them raise children as long as the father was not in the home.

 

[CS1]

Ok so we agree if a person uses the constitution as politically weight in a debate, this quote is not part of the actual contents of the constitution, right?

I am saying the very document was made and is effective for only a moral mindset people.

Those who use the context of " Freedom " to sin and do acts of wickedness will be like all other nations who have done so.

The list is long.

 

[Klement]

There is more to the building of America then the the Declaration of Independence an the Constitution

I would agree. But the constitution is the legal basis for America's great debates. I said years ago the constitution was inadequate. It's writers themselves intended it to be revised and reformed continually.

But, since it is indeed the legal basis for American polity scrutiny, and the basis upon which arguments must be made, I think Americans have dug themselves a trench with it.

In the UK we always have a living personification of the UK constitution. And it's always been a malleable thing. The Queen is the current arbiter (she learned only constitutional education for her entire childhood and adolescence). We changed our constitution many times recently. The creation of the Supreme Court, for example. And the new laws about anti democratic ideologies in education.

Point is: perhaps the constitution itself needs a rethink.

 

[Klement]

Welfare was the tool to break up the family.

It was given to women to help them raise children as long as the father was not in the home.

I agree partly. Welfare is an instrument of destruction of families, but not the only one. I would point the bigger finger at neofeminism and neomarxism in general.

 

[Klement]

I am saying the very document was made and is effective for only a moral mindset people.

Those who use the context of " Freedom " to sin and do acts of wickedness will be like all other nations who have done so.

The list is long.

But then you must also admit that we need greater documents than static constitutions to maintain stable countries. Because clearly it isn't working.

 

[Beckie]

I am be a minority her but i see some of the amendments as wreaking the original. Had the framers used the , lets say the DofI the 13thand 15th would not have been considered necessary . Emotional laws are not a good idea.

 

[Klement]

He never said it was.

No he didn't, that's true. But the continual repitition of the quote seems inadequate and boorish when the basis of debate lies upon constitutional matters of importance, since the quote isn't constitutional.

Either he makes a constitutionally weighty argument or an unconstitutional and limp one. Because in reality, it is the document that defines what is legally acceptable to push.

 

[Beckie]

But then you must also admit that we need greater documents than static constitutions to maintain stable countries. Because clearly it isn't working.

Disagree it would be working if followed

 

[Beckie]

No he didn't, that's true. But the continual repitition of the quote seems inadequate and boorish when the basis of debate lies upon constitutional matters of importance, since the quote isn't constitutional.

Either he makes a constitutionally weighty argument or an unconstitutional and limp one. Because in reality, it is the document that defines what is legally acceptable to push.

His opinion is as just ,while more just ,in my opinion then yours.

 

[Klement]

Disagree it would be working if followed

A genuine question: can you describe to me your perspective on how you feel it isn't being followed, with quotes from the actual document?

Because you clearly know more about it than me. So I want to understand and learn.

 

[Klement]

His opinion is as just ,while more just ,in my opinion then yours.

Well while I disagree, that is absolutely fine. We are all allowed to make value attributions. Free debate is priceless. And disagreement is par for the course.

 

[CS1]

But then you must also admit that we need greater documents than static constitutions to maintain stable countries. Because clearly it isn't working.

no, if the morals of the people decline to a lesser term like ethics which is what should be instead of ought to be.

50 people asked if two men having sex was wrong they said yes. But ask the same 50 people if two consenting adults of the same sex were wrong, and most would say no.

Yet the moral decline of that acceptance takes serious depravity to spiral downward into what levels the acceptance takes as we see: the decline from two adults in agreement to

• we want marriage
• we want to adopt
• we want you not to teach kids in school homosexuality is wrong
• we demand it !
• we demand you not use pronouns
• we demand you do not say Homoseculaity is wrong
• we attack you as racist and homophobe

We protest your faith and at your place of worship.

And downward, it gets more perverted, more violent. More away from morality. We played with fire and thought we would not get burnt.
Now this nation is about to end without help from a Moral God who has been kicked out of the home, schools, court house churchhouse. And has turned over men to the very version of their own desire and have become reprobated minds.

God is not Mocked. He will hold all nations who forget him accountable. That should strike fear in the heart of all.

It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. We have forgotten Lord God days without number. We have sown to the wind and now reaping the whirlwind. WE need to repent as a church and as a nation.

 

[Beckie]

A genuine question: can you describe to me your perspective on how you feel it isn't being followed, with quotes from the actual document?

Because you clearly know more about it than me. So I want to understand and learn.

Flattery really? The best i can say it read it with out any preconceived notions. I say the same about reading Scriptures .

admendment 1


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[Klement]

no, if the morals of the people decline to a lesser term like ethics which is what should be instead of ought to be.

50 people asked if two men having sex was wrong they said yes. But ask the same 50 people if two consenting adults of the same sex were wrong, and most would say no.

Yet the moral decline of that acceptance takes serious depravity to spiral downward into what levels the acceptance takes as we see: the decline from two adults in agreement to

• we want marriage
• we want to adopt
• we want you not to teach kids in school homosexuality is wrong
• we demand it !
• we demand you not use pronouns
• we demand you do not say Homoseculaity is wrong
• we attack you as racist and homophobe

We protest your faith and at your place of worship.

And downward, it gets more perverted, more violent. More away from morality. We played with fire and thought we would not get burnt.
Now this nation is about to end without help from a Moral God who has been kicked out of the home, schools, court house churchhouse. And has turned over men to the very version of their own desire and have become reprobated minds.

God is not Mocked. He will hold all nations who forget him accountable. That should strike fear in the heart of all.

I this terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. We have forgotten Lord God days without number. We have sown to the wind and now reaping the whirlwind. WE need to repent as a church and as a nation.

Look, I can't pretend to know what any God wants because my sense of logic prevents me from fully embracing one. But I can say that I completely agree with everything you say about the danger of tolerance and the point at which that tolerance bites you in the ass.

I don't agree with pronouns, many genders, indoctrinating kids with the absolute dangerous and predatory nonsense of trans-feminist ideology, or the concepts that underpin the feminist narrative of absolute male domination and the subjugation of women despite all efforts of males to protect women and make them part of society.

Life is hard for EVERYONE. Always has been.

But look at us. Look at what we have in common.

That's what the world needs, mate. Not this left-vs-right, man-vs-woman nonsense.

 

[CS1]

Look, I can't pretend to know what any God wants because my sense of logic prevents me from fully embracing one. But I can say that I completely agree with everything you say about the danger of tolerance and the point at which that tolerance bites you in the ass.

I don't agree with pronouns, many genders, indoctrinating kids with the absolute dangerous and predatory nonsense if trans-feminist ideology, or the concepts that nderpin the feminist narrative of absolute make domination and the subjugation of women.

Life is hard for EVERYONE.

But look at us. Look at what we have in common.

That's what the world needs, mate. Not this left-vs-right, man-vs-woman nonsense.

the word of God is God's standard for all as HE is a Moral God. Human logic can be perverted and deceived. We must mirror the word of God. Not to be disrespectful, but a fool has said there is no God in his heart. If there is no God-man might makes right. Just like " Lord of the flies."

The nation is failing and falling because it has no morals, not because it needs to revise a document. That document

Never has created slavery, the Atomic Bomb, Abortion, gay marriage, gangs, or one weapon of war.

People did that. As they moved further and further from morals, their hearts became darkened.

 

[Klement]

Look, I can't pretend to know what any God wants because my sense of logic prevents me from fully embracing one. But I can say that I completely agree with everything you say about the danger of tolerance and the point at which that tolerance bites you in the ass.

I don't agree with pronouns, many genders, indoctrinating kids with the absolute dangerous and predatory nonsense of trans-feminist ideology, or the concepts that underpin the feminist narrative of absolute male domination and the subjugation of women despite all efforts of males to protect women and make them part of society.

Life is hard for EVERYONE. Always has been.

But look at us. Look at what we have in common.

That's what the world needs, mate. Not this left-vs-right, man-vs-woman nonsense.

I ask you humbly to take that road. Without any moral superiority or any ability or desire to make you into me.

Just, be my countryman again. Seriously. Be my countryman. Be my ideological partner. Because we both have far more in common than we have in differences.

 

[Klement]

the word of God is God's standard for all as HE is a Moral God. Human logic can be perverted and deceived. We must mirror the word of God. Not to be disrespectful, but a fool has said there is no God in his heart. If there is no God-man might makes right. Just like " Lord of the flies."

The nation is failing and falling because it has no morals, not because it needs to revise a document. That document

Never has created slavery, the Atomic Bomb, Abortion, gay marriage, gangs, or one weapon of war.

People did that. As they moved further and further from morals, their hearts became darkened.

I don't like abortion, because the idea of an unborn human resonates with me. I don't like gay marriage, because of several reasons like marriage isn't a state purview anyway. I don't like the idea of restricting people's freedom either. I've never owned slaves. I've never wanted might to be right except when other mights assert the right to be right but they are authoritarian.

I want you to be free to continue everything you believe, as with everyone else. And if I disagree with you on stuff, well so damn what?

That's life. That's freedom.

 

[Klement]

I don't like abortion, because the idea of an unborn human resonates with me. I don't like gay marriage, because of several reasons like marriage isn't a state purview anyway. I don't like the idea of restricting people's freedom either. I've never owned slaves. I've never wanted might to be right except when other mights assert the right to be right but they are authoritarian.

I want you to be free to continue everything you believe, as with everyone else. And if I disagree with you on stuff, well so damn what?

That's life. That's freedom.

A quote, probably butchered: to be given tolerance is to be tolerant. To be visited oppression is to accept oppressions. What we do to others, we reap as a consequence.

It's something like that.

Freedom is the only reason we are able to talk right now as nonbleiever and Christian. Without the government taking no sides, surely one of us would be persecuted.

My point is: I will defend your right to faith if you agree to defend my right to none.

 

[CS1]

I don't like abortion, because the idea of an unborn human resonates with me. I don't like gay marriage, because of several reasons like marriage isn't a state purview anyway. I don't like the idea of restricting people's freedom either. I've never owned slaves. I've never wanted might to be right except when other mights assert the right to be right but they are authoritarian.

I want you to be free to continue everything you believe, as with everyone else. And if I disagree with you on stuff, well so damn what?

That's life. That's freedom.

The issue is not what you think is moral because you agree it is bad or not, it is the standard of God's word that weighs in as authoritative. It doesn't matter if you don't like gay marriage either. it is the false narrative that one's freedom to sin must be accepted by all. That is not the freedom it is Bondage. Those who call it freedom call evil good and good evil.

They have perverted freedom.