You Will Know Them By Their Fruits.

[Benadam]

Grace is given, sustained, provided by God.....it is not gained, maintained etc. by religious sacraments, observances, ordinances etc.....of or by any church affiliation.

That's a straw man you've been fed. Your statement is based on a shallow biased faith easily defeated. That's not Catholicism.

And to somewhat prove this...what was it that NOAH found in God's eyes? WELL BEFORE any "church" was ever conceived.

Another straw man. You think the Catholic Church teaches that the sacraments restrict God's freedom?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It was eleventh hour who posted to me that the sacraments don't confer Grace. That's calling my faith false. I may seem evasive when I'm choosing my words to avoid the triggers attached to protestant /catholic discussons. What do you feel I'm being evasive about?

What seems Hodge podge to you?

If a sacrament confers grace. Then grace is based on works. Basically nullifying grace and turning it into a reward. Rom 4 and EPH 2 explain this quite well. It is of grace not works lest anyone should boast

 

[Benadam]

A teaching can be false, and I did not state your faith was false.

If sacraments can confer grace that needs to be supported by scripture, can you do this?

I already did. The sacraments are Things Jesus told us to do. The Church did these things and experienced the Grace, then explain what was happening as best she could. That is what the faithfully experienced for over a millennium. Then few hundred years ago what you believe emerged as a protest."the sacraments do not confer Grace. Believe me for Catholics who receive Grace from the Sacraments your denial is odd. Its like we say the meatloaf smells good and you say meatloaf has no smell. Huh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I already did. The sacraments are Things Jesus told us to do. The Church did these things and experienced the Grace, then explain what was happening as best she could. That is what the faithfully experienced for over a millennium. Then few hundred years ago what you believe emerged as a protest."the sacraments do not confer Grace. Believe me for Catholics who receive Grace from the Sacraments your denial is odd. Its like we say the meatloaf smells good and you say meatloaf has no smell. Huh?

This is what your church tells you, but it is not so. You have to remember, your church ruled by the power of Rome and anyone who went against her was punished severely up to death.

so I would not trust history you place your faith in.

the bible does no back the sacraments being a means of grace, the ordinances are Given to those already saved by grace. Not to receive salvation by grace

 

[Benadam]

a sacrament confers grace. Then grace is based on work

I suppose doing what Jesus said to do is a work. What isn't ? Can you do something that isn't a work?

 

[EleventhHour]

I already did. The sacraments are Things Jesus told us to do. The Church did these things and experienced the Grace, then explain what was happening as best she could. That is what the faithfully experienced for over a millennium. Then few hundred years ago what you believe emerged as a protest."the sacraments do not confer Grace. Believe me for Catholics who receive Grace from the Sacraments your denial is odd. Its like we say the meatloaf smells good and you say meatloaf has no smell. Huh?

Yes, Jesus told us to do those things, I do not deny that, however where does scripture teach that the grace of God is conferred when we do those things.

You do realize that if the sacraments confer grace than those outside of that system are outside of receiving God's grace.
I am very familiar with the dogma as a former Catholic so do not think I do not understand because I do.

 

[Benadam]

This is what your church tells you, but it is not so. You have to remember, your church ruled by the power of Rome and anyone who went against her was punished severely up to death.

so I would not trust history you place your faith in.

the bible does no back the sacraments being a means of grace, the ordinances are Given to those already saved by grace. Not to receive salvation by grace

A form of religion but deny the power thereof. You know that's what your teaching is an image of to me.

 

[Benadam]

You do realize that if the sacraments confer grace than those outside of that system are outside of receiving God's grace.
I am very familiar with the dogma as a former Catholic so do not think I do not understand because I do.

You obviously don't know what Catholics believe. The Sacraments don't restrict God's freedom. He can still do what He pleases. You express a shallow false Catholicism easy to defeat and trick people into believing you and prevent them from searching out the real thing. This happens because you don't really understand Catholicism. Catholics don't present a shallow diminished version of what you believe then make a statement that exposes it as false.
That's because it isn't necessary.

 

[EleventhHour]

You obviously don't know what Catholics believe. The Sacraments don't restrict God's freedom. He can still do what He pleases. You express a shallow false Catholicism easy to defeat and trick people into believing you and prevent them from searching out the real thing. This happens because you don't really understand Catholicism. Catholics don't present a shallow diminished version of what you believe then make a statement that exposes it as false.
That's because it isn't necessary.

I am thankful that learned this and was delivered..

Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): All Glory to God
Link

Amen and Praise God for the simplicity found in Christ Jesus.
I know more than you realize and quite in depth, I pray you find your way out soon

 

[Benadam]

I am thankful that learned this and was delivered..

Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): All Glory to God
Link

Amen and Praise God for the simplicity found in Christ Jesus.
I know more than you realize and quite in depth, I pray you find your way out soon

Careful, when the a.c. comes and attacks the Catholic Church if you believe the Catholic Church is anti-christ you might think the a.c. is Jesus. The a.c. will fulfill your scriptures. You will think you are seeing Christ destroy t the a.c. with the breath of His mouth.

 

[preacher4truth]

Careful, when the a.c. comes and attacks the Catholic Church if you believe the Catholic Church is anti-christ...

Wouldn't that just prove Satan's kingdom is divided against itself?

 

[EleventhHour]

Careful, when the a.c. comes and attacks the Catholic Church if you believe the Catholic Church is anti-christ you might think the a.c. is Jesus. The a.c. will fulfill your scriptures. You will think you are seeing Christ destroy t the a.c. with the breath of His mouth.

I am quite sure I will not be deceived. ....that is why i study the scripture not the teachings of a church.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I suppose doing what Jesus said to do is a work. What isn't ? Can you do something that isn't a work?

JESUS was born under law but HE ushered In the New.Under the Old Covenant they were Always doing But they might not be clean on the Inside and That's Not what GOD desired but HE desires the person be clean on the Inside.

GOD looks at the heart.

 

[Benadam]

I am quite sure I will not be deceived. ....that is why i study the scripture not the teachings of a church.

Studying scripture can be a vulnerability if the a.c. comes against what you see as a.c..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I suppose doing what Jesus said to do is a work. What isn't ? Can you do something that isn't a work?

If your doing it to eventually earn salvation yes it is a work.,
if your doing it out of gratitude for being saved. It’s not a work, because you expect nothing in return, it’s called giving out of love

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Studying scripture can be a vulnerability if the a.c. comes against what you see as a.c..

Do you ever proof read your post before you post them.🤭😂

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A form of religion but deny the power thereof. You know that's what your teaching is an image of to me.

my religion has power, the power came from the God who saved me, I have stopped my work and entered his rest.

 

[Duskey]

Studying scripture can be a vulnerability if the a.c. comes against what you see as a.c..

So much for wearing the Armour of God. 🙄

 

[EleventhHour]

Studying scripture can be a vulnerability if the a.c. comes against what you see as a.c..

So far my air conditioner has been working quite well and not come against me all even as I study scripture
....thanks goodness it has been a very hot summer!!!

 

[Benadam]

Do you ever proof read your post before you post them.🤭😂

Sure. Sometimes too briefly I m sure. That one is ok. I think.