Would you read the Koran?

[Live4Him]

So we're reading English, we do not get all the information in the scripture. Not even the venerated KJV tells us that the name Jesus means "Yah is Salvation" - - but we would know that if we understood the original languages the Bible was written in.

The KJV does give us some indication of this in the following portion of scripture:

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matt. 1:21)

In other words, Jesus was given that particular name "for" or because "he shall save his people from their sins".

Anyhow, I agree with you that we should study the underlying languages of Biblical texts in order to possibly gain a better understanding of what they actually mean.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I intend to read the Qu'ran, and purchased an English translation to do so. There are many Moslems in this region, and I want to have a basic understanding of their book so that I can witness more effectively.

Beware, The Koran isn't in chronological order. It's arranged by length of chapter from longest to shortest.
Before he had large numbers of followers, Mohammed remained relatively peaceful. These were his earlier years in Mecca.
The later Medina verses become progressively more violent. Because of it's lack of order it's difficult to tell which verses go where.
The matter is complicated even further by the Islamic principle of abrogation. If 2 verses contradict each other the later verse cancels out the earlier.

You will often hear people quote the peaceful verses like "no compulsion in religion" in order to prove that the Koran is peaceful.
But most of the peaceful verses are cancelled by the violent.

 

[posthuman]

Beware, The Koran isn't in chronological order. It's arranged by length of chapter from longest to shortest.
Before he had large numbers of followers, Mohammed remained relatively peaceful. These were his earlier years in Mecca.
The later Medina verses become progressively more violent. Because of it's lack of order it's difficult to tell which verses go where.
The matter is complicated even further by the Islamic principle of abrogation. If 2 verses contradict each other the later verse cancels out the earlier.

You will often hear people quote the peaceful verses like "no compulsion in religion" in order to prove that the Koran is peaceful.
But most of the peaceful verses are cancelled by the violent.

The version I read was a phone app that organized the suras chronologically - reading it this way is something I would definitely recommend.

There is a marked difference between the older portions, presumably an oral tradition passed down through Ishmael, and the Mohammedan sections.

 

[Magenta]

I have transcribed a few of David Wood's videos

The greatest threat to terrorist groups like the Islamic State, The Taliban,
Boko Haram, Al-Shabaab, and Al-Qaeda, is not a UN resolution or the US Military.
The greatest threat to terrorists is an informed population, because only an
informed population can undermine the ideology that gives rise to jihad.

With this in mind, let's go through 10 facts about the Qur'an, history's
most effective manual for violently subjugating nations and cultures.

Fact number 1: The word Qur'an means recitation. The Qur'an is something that is supposed to be recited from memory. Muhammad and his companions weren't big on reading, and in Muhammad's time, portions of the Qur'an were only written down as memory aids. It wasn't until later that some of his followers came up with the idea of putting it all together into book form. (Don't let anyone tell you that the Qur'an remains as it was originally written, because due to there initially being multiple versions of the Qur'an, all originals were burnt to eliminate discrepancies.)

So, why would Muslims want to recite the Qur'an? Because:

Fact number 2: Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allah. The angel Gabriel, as the story goes, delivered verses to Mohammed, and Mohammad passed these verses on to his followers. But as far as the Qur'an is concerned, Gabriel and Muhammad were mailmen. It's the word of Allah not the words of Gabriel or Muhammad. Why do Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allah? Because:

Fact number 3: Muhammad said so.

The Qur'an was supposedly revealed to one man, Muhammad. Unlike the Bible, which contains numerous shorter works written by around 40 different authors, the Qur'an stands or falls with the lone testimony of Mohammed, a guy who's first impression of his revelations was that they were demonic, a guy who repeatedly tried to kill himself, a guy who believed he was the victim of magic spells that give him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. A guy who delivered versus to his followers and later blamed the devil for tricking him. A guy who had sex with a nine year old girl, had nine wives at one time, even though the Qur'an says Muslims can only have four, married the divorced wife of his own adopted son after causing the divorce; told his followers that it is okay to beat their wives into submission, and so on.

So... What evidence did Muhammad offer to show that his revelations were from Allah?

Fact number four: Muhammad's main argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an, was what we'll call the argument from literary excellence, one of the silliest arguments ever offered by anyone for anything. My poetry is better than your poetry,so my poetry must be the inspired word of Allah. The idea is that no one can produce something as wonderful as or more wonderful than the Qur'an.

Now, there are all kinds of things we could do to make the Qur'an better than it is. We could take out the verses about slaughtering unbelievers or about raping female captives or about having sex with pre-pubescent girls But one simple way to improve the Qur'an would be to put it in chronological order because:

Fact number 5: The Qur'an is not arranged chronologically. Apart from the first chapter, which is a short prayer, the rest of the Qur'an is basically arranged from the longest chapters to the shortest chapters. But the longer chapters were generally much later than the shorter chapters, so the Qur'an is thoroughly disorganized, making it very difficult to read. You might not care about the order, but it's actually extremely important, because"

Fact number 6: Some parts of the Qur'an abrogate or cancel other parts of the Qur'an. Later revelations typically abrogate earlier revelations, but since the Qur'an isn't arranged chronologically, we don't know which verses are cancelled, and which versus still apply, without massive collections of commentaries to help sift through this mess.

You will recall that the main argument for its divine origin is that it is so incredibly well-written, that it must be from God. Yes so wonderfully written that nobody can understand what they're supposed to do without consulting a team of scholars. This is my modern take on the Qur'an; what did Muhammad's contemporaries think of it?

Fact number seven: Muhammad's contemporaries were convinced that the Qur'an was plagiarized from earlier sources. How do we know what they thought about the Qur'an? We know because the Qur'an repeatedly tells us that Muhammad's contemporaries accused him of stealing his stories from others. How did Muhammad respond to charges of plagiarism? He declared that:

Fact number 8: The Qur'an is a continuation of previous scriptures. The reason so much the Qur'an sounded so familiar to the people of Arabia wasn't that Muhammad was plagiarizing earlier sources, those earlier sources were also the word of Allah. That's why they sounded the same!

Of course Muslims today know that those earlier sources thoroughly contradict the Qur'an, so they are forced to claim that the earlier sources were corrupted. This is extremely odd because:

Fact number 9: The Qur'an was only compiled into a book because much of it was lost. According to Muslim sources, entire chapters of the Qur'an were forgotten. Large passages came up missing, verses vanished. This is in spite of the fact that Allah promised, He promised in chapter 15 Verse 9, to protect the Qur'an from corruption. He couldn't do it, which calls into question the rest of what he said in the Qur'an. Why is this relevant? Because:

Fact number ten: The Qur'an is the highest authority on matters of sharia:

Raping female captives, beating women into submission, chopping off
hands for stealing, grown men marrying little girls. These things come
from this book (the Qur'an), which most certainly is not the word of God.

Learn these facts, my friends, and share them with others when appropriate.

 

[Lanolin]

I dont have any desire to read the Koran myself, but maybe if I was witnessing to. muslims I would try to be familiar with it.

Though there are translations of the Bible in arabic I would offer those instead.

I havent read any buddhist sutras or the upanishads or anything.
Ive read the analects of confucious (in translation) I have read the Urantia book and the book course in miracles. Ive read the book of enoch and some apochrya, I think was macabees and sirach.

The above books I read were boring compared to the Bible. They were IMHO dead.

 

[Lanolin]

I did try reading catholic handbook of catechism, again, that was a dead book for me but I suppose gave me some idea of what catholics believe.
I might have read a watchtower magazine once but when I see those my immediate reaction is to chuck them in the bin. The same with certain translations of the Bible. And the Left Behind series.

sorry calvinists, I dont bother to read Systemic theology. It is even bigger than the Bible. Life is too short to read bad books.

I do read some Proverbs in maori, and some of their myths and legends. Which are similar to greek legends though all the different god stories can be confusing.

again though they are dead for me.

 

[Lanolin]

what I do read is memoirs of people who've left cults eg mormons, jws, hindus, muslims, catholic etc who have become christians or agnostic.

I find them more interesting. I dont think I could read the book of mormon, it would be too boring and far fetched for me to take seriously, though it seems crazy that people do.

I am a voracious reader but am quite choosy about what I read. I would recommend reading the Bible from cover to cover though. It is a great book.

 

[Blade]

My frist thought was this by TheIndianGirl "I would definitely make sure my faith is strong/grounded before I read the Koran or another text. "

After this then yes.. to learn and understand. You quickly find theres something missing as you read it.. its like any other book. Theres no life in it.

 

[CS1]

Would you read the Koran, Buddha's teaching, etc. for educational purposes? If you think Catholicism is another religion, what about reading the Apocrypha? Why or why not?
What does the Bible say about this?

I think it should be okay to read them for educational purposes (not for wisdom, etc.). I think it is helpful in understanding another culture.

I would recommend that one doesn't dabble but one can enter into a Biblical class where Christian doctrines are presented to refute occultic positions. And to teach appropriate apologetics ( defending the faith). a solid Bible-believing church where you can have help.

 

[Runningman]

Would you read the Koran, Buddha's teaching, etc. for educational purposes? If you think Catholicism is another religion, what about reading the Apocrypha? Why or why not?
What does the Bible say about this?

I think it should be okay to read them for educational purposes (not for wisdom, etc.). I think it is helpful in understanding another culture.

It'ss better to be firmly grounded in your knowledge and faith in Christ before attempting to engage their reading material. We need to know the difference between the singular truth ina world of lies.

When it comes down to it, it isn't just other religious texts that can lead people astray, there are also many secular influences.

I personally think it's better to read books they equip you with the knowledge of how to not be taken advantage of, not fall prey to manipulators, or be deceived.

Big part of the way you can understand what's really going on is by understanding the information warfare of propaganda.

It isn't particularly important you understand what someone else believes, but rather why they believe what they do, and how you can find an opening to give them the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Kavik]

Yes. of course. You can't understand (or perhaps better stated for some, 'criticize') a particular religious path without at least some basic knowledge of it's sacred text. Whether the Qu'ran, Bhagavad Gita, Vedas, The Avesta, Sutras, Kipitaka, ect. or the oral tradition of those cultures/beliefs who do not have a written text per se, it's important to know why people believe what they do. It also helps to get an idea of how/why they view world around them the way they do. Oftentimes, what you'll find when it comes right down to it is that the rules for human beings to live by and treat others don't really vary all that much from culture to culture. And yes, some are certainly more ethocentric or regigiocentric than others.

 

[posthuman]

When it comes down to it, it isn't just other religious texts that can lead people astray, there are also many secular influences.

amen to that. what's pragmatically the difference between reading the Tao te Ching and watching TV or listening to talk radio? they're both trying to make you think like them. whether it's a false religion or a false worldly humanism we should be grounded in scripture and right doctrine before anything else.

i still think reading some of these things is worthwhile - but don't put down your Bible to do it. read both. keep comparing what you hear and read with what God says in His book. that goes for the news or movies or memes just as much as it goes for the Hindu Vedas and even what you hear whoever behind whatever pulpit say on any given sunday morning.

 

[Blik]

There are two places that we are advised about what we read. First, in the Lord's prayer we pray for the Lord to give us our daily bread. It is a rule to read scripture both with a spiritual and literal view. We are asking the Lord for food for our bodies and our spirit. How would the Koran feed our spirit? Perhaps by learning how to answer those who are practicing occult ways?

The other scripture advise is through the teaching to the Hebrews to never eat food from animals that ate garbage. The physical part of these commands are not binding to us, but the spirit of all of them is eternal. These commands were given to help them understand the spiritual command, but now we have the holy spirit for that. Just as cutting foreskin is no longer needed, circumcision of the heart is needed. Diet control is no longer needed, but not feeding our minds and soul with garbage is an eternal principle of the Lord.

 

[Angela53510]

I have read the Qu'ran, for the purpose of witnessing. I read many books on Buddhism before I became a Christian and rejected it. I have read the Apocrypha, for my class in NT studies in seminary. Some of it is good history, some is terrible history, and it is not inspired at all! It was required reading!

Why be threatened by any religion, if your faith is in Christ? He is the one who saved and keeps us. Forget the demon nonsense, too! One of Satan's tricks to keep us in bondage is to keep us thinking how strong and powerful he is! Instead, we need to remember God is in control, and if God called you, he will never let you go! God did NOT give us a spirit of fear!

"For God did not give us a Spirit of fear but of power and love and self-control." 2 Tim 2:7 NET

I read all kinds of books by Catholics in theology. They have a lot of interesting ideas, although I don't believe them all. I am not afraid to read any book, except I would avoid Satanist literature, because I don't like horror!

If you are a new Christian, this might not apply to you. But once you have read the Bible and studied it a few times, you can't catch being bad from books!

Just remind yourself, "God is in control!" If you can't say that, then you really don't know enough about God.

 

[iamsoandso]

I have read the Qu'ran, for the purpose of witnessing. I read many books on Buddhism before I became a Christian and rejected it. I have read the Apocrypha, for my class in NT studies in seminary. Some of it is good history, some is terrible history, and it is not inspired at all! It was required reading!

Why be threatened by any religion, if your faith is in Christ? He is the one who saved and keeps us. Forget the demon nonsense, too! One of Satan's tricks to keep us in bondage is to keep us thinking how strong and powerful he is! Instead, we need to remember God is in control, and if God called you, he will never let you go! God did NOT give us a spirit of fear!

"For God did not give us a Spirit of fear but of power and love and self-control." 2 Tim 2:7 NET

I read all kinds of books by Catholics in theology. They have a lot of interesting ideas, although I don't believe them all. I am not afraid to read any book, except I would avoid Satanist literature, because I don't like horror!

If you are a new Christian, this might not apply to you. But once you have read the Bible and studied it a few times, you can't catch being bad from books!

Just remind yourself, "God is in control!" If you can't say that, then you really don't know enough about God.

From your readings what will Isa do when he comes?

 

[Going_Nowhere]

Right now, I'm only interested in reading

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

From your readings what will Isa do when he comes?

I know you weren't addressing me but if I may- Islamic eschatology has some interesting highlights.

Isa al masih (a false Jesus) will convert Christians to Islam.
He will come to tell the world that he never died on a cross & he didn't claim to be the son of God.
That Islam is the only true religion & all people should submit to the Mahdi (The Islamic Messiah figure)

The Mahdi is a Religious-military-political leader who will come to unite the Islamic world & bring peace.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I know you weren't addressing me but if I may- Islamic eschatology has some interesting highlights.

Isa al masih (a false Jesus) will convert Christians to Islam.
He will come to tell the world that he never died on a cross & he didn't claim to be the son of God.
That Islam is the only true religion & all people should submit to the Mahdi (The Islamic Messiah figure)

The Mahdi is a Religious-military-political leader who will come to unite the Islamic world & bring peace.

So is this in the Quran?

And if so, why would anybody follow Islam?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

So is this in the Quran?

And if so, why would anybody follow Islam?

The Mahdi doesn't appear in The Koran, he appears in The Hadith. Expectations for his appearance are quite high in The Middle East.
The false Jesus appears in The Koran, he is mentioned far more than Mohammed. He isn't false in the eyes of Muslims. He is a "prophet"
I'm calling him a false prophet because I know him to be false by our standards.

The Koran denies specifically that God has a son and warns Christians not to say God has a son and not to say there is a trinity.
(I can look up the specific verses if you want them)

Why would Muslims who have lived their lives in an Islamic world follow Islam? Because to them it's the truth.
Why would a Christian follow Islam? They wouldn't unless they were deceived or forcibly converted.

 

[Angela53510]

From your readings what will Isa do when he comes?

He will return as a Messenger, not a prophet. He will be a human. Not divine, not a son of Allah (PBTH).

He will pursue the AntiChrist, till the battle of Gog and Magog. Then those followers remaining he will stroke their faces and inform them of their grades in Paradise.

Isa will be a fair judge, then break the cross, literally and symbolically and literally proving once and for all the falsehood of Christianity. On Resurrection Day he will be a witness against the people of the book (Jews and Christians) Isa will call all people to Islam, and Allah will end all religions but Islam.

Safety and peace will cover the earth, the jihad will end. Rancour, envy and hatred will leave the earth.

There's more, but the essential breaking point between Islam, is Christians do believe Jesus is God and Muslims do not. Allah is one, there are no secondary gods. The way to win someone to Christ is to show them how Jesus is God. Further, we can be assured of our salvation, a Muslim cannot!

It can also be pointed out the a Trinity consists of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, not Joseph, Mary and Jesus. Mohammad did not get this simple historical fact right in the Qu'ran. They are many other mistakes like that in the Qu'ran, proving their book is not inspired by God!

I suggest you look into this. There is a lot more end times things that will happen.