Works righteousness.

[Jackson123]

That by your works you either are saved or kept saved by them .

I don't know If there is such teaching.
James 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Was James teach work salvation?

How about theaching below
Faith salvation

Salvation by faith alone, so murder adulterer go to heaven as long as have faith.

Do you agree this teaching?

 

[throughfaith]

I don't know If there is such teaching.
James 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Was James teach work salvation?

How about theaching below
Faith salvation

Salvation by faith alone, so murder adulterer go to heaven as long as have faith.

Do you agree this teaching?

I forgot your the one who's obsessed with murder .

 

[Jackson123]

I forgot your the one who's obsessed with murder .

That is not answer my question, friend, I am waiting for you to answer my question.

 

[Yahshua]

Throughfaith, here's how both chapters reconcile...because both do seem to contradict each other at first glance.


Wherefore is the "therefore" there for in chapter 3 verse 20?


In other words, by saying "therefore" Paul is making a conclusion based on a point he previously made. So we need to go back to see what he's specifically talking about.


His point starts just after the passage I posted, starting in verse 12, where Paul challenges the Jew as a "keeper of the Law". The Jew boasts of having the law and being a teacher of it but is being a hypocrite because he also breaks the law and dishonors the Almighty. The Jew boasts of being "set apart" through his circumcision...but Paul's point is "if you're breaking the law, your circumcision - a 'deed of the law' the Jew has performed - is rendered as uncircumcision". It's null and void. Such a deed that "sets apart" the Jew is worthless.

Paul then continues in chapter 3 explaining that in breaking the law the Jew is equally found in sin just like the Gentile who was never given the law of God to obey. Therefore ALL are in sin. And if in sin, there is nothing one can do to fix that; to set themselves "right" in the eyes of the law.

----

There is no amount of obedience to the law that can "undo" a guilty state once one is caught as a lawbreaker. This is true for every law in every government in existence, including the kingdom of the Almighty. The only solution is to go in front of the judge to settle the account (i.e. become "right" again) either by paying for the crime or being forgiven of the crime.

----

"Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight..." (Rom 3:20)

Why? Because...

"...all are under sin" (Rom 3:9). IOW, all are ALREADY caught as guilty and so must go before the judge.


Romans 3:21-25 [brackets mine]
But now the righteousness of God without [outside] the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Here, Paul explains how we are to be set "right", and it's through faith alone in the Messiah's blood. Only when we are set "right" in the eyes of the law are we once again free to obey and it actually means something. This is no different than if we were pardoned of a crime we couldn't pay for...once we're pardoned we're free from the judgment but then EXPECTED to obey the law of the land so that we don't fall back into a "guilty" state.


Blessings.

 

[throughfaith]

Throughfaith, here's how both chapters reconcile...because both do seem to contradict each other at first glance.


Wherefore is the "therefore" there for in chapter 3 verse 20?


In other words, by saying "therefore" Paul is making a conclusion based on a point he previously made. So we need to go back to see what he's specifically talking about.


His point starts just after the passage I posted, starting in verse 12, where Paul challenges the Jew as a "keeper of the Law". The Jew boasts of having the law and being a teacher of it but is being a hypocrite because he also breaks the law and dishonors the Almighty. The Jew boasts of being "set apart" through his circumcision...but Paul's point is "if you're breaking the law, your circumcision - a 'deed of the law' the Jew has performed - is rendered as uncircumcision". It's null and void. Such a deed that "sets apart" the Jew is worthless.

Paul then continues in chapter 3 explaining that in breaking the law the Jew is equally found in sin just like the Gentile who was never given the law of God to obey. Therefore ALL are in sin. And if in sin, there is nothing one can do to fix that; to set themselves "right" in the eyes of the law.

----

There is no amount of obedience to the law that can "undo" a guilty state once one is caught as a lawbreaker. This is true for every law in every government in existence, including the kingdom of the Almighty. The only solution is to go in front of the judge to settle the account (i.e. become "right" again) either by paying for the crime or being forgiven of the crime.

----

"Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight..." (Rom 3:20)

Why? Because...

"...all are under sin" (Rom 3:9). IOW, all are ALREADY caught as guilty and so must go before the judge.


Romans 3:21-25 [brackets mine]
But now the righteousness of God without [outside] the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Here, Paul explains how we are to be set "right", and it's through faith alone in the Messiah's blood. Only when we are set "right" in the eyes of the law are we once again free to obey and it actually means something. This is no different than if we were pardoned of a crime we couldn't pay for...once we're pardoned we're free from the judgment but then EXPECTED to obey the law of the land so that we don't fall back into a "guilty" state.


Blessings.

But the context is the sins from Adam to the death of Christ. All the sins that needed redeeming that were only remitted but not redeemed .
Hebrews 9.

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[throughfaith]

Throughfaith, here's how both chapters reconcile...because both do seem to contradict each other at first glance.


Wherefore is the "therefore" there for in chapter 3 verse 20?


In other words, by saying "therefore" Paul is making a conclusion based on a point he previously made. So we need to go back to see what he's specifically talking about.


His point starts just after the passage I posted, starting in verse 12, where Paul challenges the Jew as a "keeper of the Law". The Jew boasts of having the law and being a teacher of it but is being a hypocrite because he also breaks the law and dishonors the Almighty. The Jew boasts of being "set apart" through his circumcision...but Paul's point is "if you're breaking the law, your circumcision - a 'deed of the law' the Jew has performed - is rendered as uncircumcision". It's null and void. Such a deed that "sets apart" the Jew is worthless.

Paul then continues in chapter 3 explaining that in breaking the law the Jew is equally found in sin just like the Gentile who was never given the law of God to obey. Therefore ALL are in sin. And if in sin, there is nothing one can do to fix that; to set themselves "right" in the eyes of the law.

----

There is no amount of obedience to the law that can "undo" a guilty state once one is caught as a lawbreaker. This is true for every law in every government in existence, including the kingdom of the Almighty. The only solution is to go in front of the judge to settle the account (i.e. become "right" again) either by paying for the crime or being forgiven of the crime.

----

"Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight..." (Rom 3:20)

Why? Because...

"...all are under sin" (Rom 3:9). IOW, all are ALREADY caught as guilty and so must go before the judge.


Romans 3:21-25 [brackets mine]
But now the righteousness of God without [outside] the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Here, Paul explains how we are to be set "right", and it's through faith alone in the Messiah's blood. Only when we are set "right" in the eyes of the law are we once again free to obey and it actually means something. This is no different than if we were pardoned of a crime we couldn't pay for...once we're pardoned we're free from the judgment but then EXPECTED to obey the law of the land so that we don't fall back into a "guilty" state.


Blessings.

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

And now look at hebrews 9.

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

its all the sins under the old covenant.

 

[Yahshua]

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

And now look at hebrews 9.

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

its all the sins under the old covenant.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point but, yes truly, Christ's blood cleansed the sanctuary of the debt of sins that were placed in forbearance in the first testament since the blood of animals can't actually cleanse the sins of man.

The first testament used animals for propitiation in an earthly tabernacle. In the new testament we use the blood of Christ in the heavenly tabernacle, but the process remains the same. When we break the law, we still take our sins to the High Priest for forgiveness because our sins still dirty the sanctuary.

...only this time, the High Priest isn't mortal but has the power of an indestructible life, so he can perform the work of cleansing our guilty conscience with his blood to its completion. He will never die or grow sick and need to be traded for another high priest to do the work in the heavently sanctuary.

We can't see this work happening like they could when there was an earthly temple, so it requires our faith to know it's happening.

Then when we are forgiven, we use the gifts we are given (grace, Holy Spirit, etc) to walk in righteousness and obey...but when we stumble we have a High Priest working who also knows what we go through down here, because he went through the same temptations.

 

[Duskey]

Works CAN NOT CLEANSE US,
THE BLOOD OF YESUAH COVERS OUR SINS, THEN BY KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS, WE WILL STAY CLEAN, UNLESS WE SIN WILLFULLY, IF WE SIN WILLFULLY, WE ARE CHOOSING TO BE LOST,
ROMANS 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
NOTICE THAT THIS TELLS US THAT IT IS THE SINS THAT ARE IN OUR PAST,
NOT THE SINS THAT WE COMMIT AFTER WE HAVE BEEN CLEANED, THAT JUST GETS US UNCLEAN AGAIN,
AND NEED YESUAH TO CLEAN US AGAIN!!!
BUT AFTER YESUAH CLEANS US, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AFTER YESUAH CLEANS US, WE WILL STAY CLEAN, BECAUSE WE HAFT TO BRAKE GOD'S COMMANDMENTS TO SIN AND MAKE US UNCLEAN, THAT IS WHAT GOD'S LAW IS FOR, TO SHOW US OUR SINS, SO WE CAN KNOW WHAT OUR SINS ARE SO WE CAN STOP SINNING, AS GOD SHOWS US OUR SINS BY GOD'S COMMANDMENTS,
NO THE COMMANDMENTS CAN NOT CLEAN US, BUT WHEN YESUAH CLEANS US THE COMMANDMENTS WILL KEEP US CLEAN, IF WE WILL KEEP THEM,

What happens if you die in between cleansings?

 

[bud62]

What happens if you die in between cleansings?

The thing is that we are not to commit sin after that GOD has give us the knowledge that something is sin,
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
If GOD dose not let US come back to him for repentance , then we will be destroyed just like the BIBLE. And Satan tries to get people to give his false beliefs of scripture, So it is best to except the verses for what they are really saying. even JESUS TELLS US THIS.

 

[Duskey]

The thing is that we are not to commit sin after that GOD has give us the knowledge that something is sin,
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
If GOD dose not let US come back to him for repentance , then we will be destroyed just like the BIBLE. And Satan tries to get people to give his false beliefs of scripture, So it is best to except the verses for what they are really saying. even JESUS TELLS US THIS.

The Bible I read states quite clearly God’s grace is sufficient.

 

[tribesman]

James is hammering home the relation between believing and working sufficiently clear in his epistle. But going into this thing about working and sinning is another wheel to spin.

1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:8-2:2

 

[throughfaith]

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point but, yes truly, Christ's blood cleansed the sanctuary of the debt of sins that were placed in forbearance in the first testament since the blood of animals can't actually cleanse the sins of man.

The first testament used animals for propitiation in an earthly tabernacle. In the new testament we use the blood of Christ in the heavenly tabernacle, but the process remains the same. When we break the law, we still take our sins to the High Priest for forgiveness because our sins still dirty the sanctuary.

...only this time, the High Priest isn't mortal but has the power of an indestructible life, so he can perform the work of cleansing our guilty conscience with his blood to its completion. He will never die or grow sick and need to be traded for another high priest to do the work in the heavently sanctuary.

We can't see this work happening like they could when there was an earthly temple, so it requires our faith to know it's happening.

Then when we are forgiven, we use the gifts we are given (grace, Holy Spirit, etc) to walk in righteousness and obey...but when we stumble we have a High Priest working who also knows what we go through down here, because he went through the same temptations.

No that would be salvation by works. Jesus not only dealt with those sins under the old covenant, but he also paid for and redeemed ALL sins :

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[Jackson123]

The Bible I read states quite clearly God’s grace is sufficient.

And this is the bible I read state

1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

And this is the bible I read state

1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

In short, there will be no sinners in heaven. Just as we will all be perfect. Just as we will all be holy. You might understand that the laws, commandments and all that count are also promises on our behavior.

Until then we must do our part to be as much as was Jesus-Yeshua as we are given to be able, while always having faith thhat theguilt of our transgressions will not be remembered nor held against us.

God is good all of the ime.

 

[throughfaith]

And this is the bible I read state

1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Keep reading principle .
11And such WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED , but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

The context is about going to law against your brother on matters that should be able to be judged amongst one another. Instead some were going to the lost . The ones who were not the best to Judge. Being all those things listed in 6.9 .

 

[Duskey]

And this is the bible I read state

1 cor 6
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

“For God so loved the world He gave His own Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”

“And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

All direct quotes from Jesus Christ regarding our obtaining salvation simply by having faith in Him. We are saved by grace through faith.

 

[bud62]

The Bible I read states quite clearly God’s grace is sufficient.

To cover the sins that I have committed, itis,
But to keep on sinning, NO NO NO !!!
3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; This tells you that it is the sins that you have Committed already , n ot the sins that we are going to commit after we get clean, that just gets us un clean,


WE need to see that this is a brother in CHRIST
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
And we to see that he was going to die the death, And NOTICE that because he is sinning AGAIN, And if he repents again, his sins will be cover again,
I do not know how you could get any planner then this.

 

[Duskey]

To cover the sins that I have committed, itis,
But to keep on sinning, NO NO NO !!!
3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; This tells you that it is the sins that you have Committed already , n ot the sins that we are going to commit after we get clean, that just gets us un clean,


WE need to see that this is a brother in CHRIST
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
And we to see that he was going to die the death, And NOTICE that because he is sinning AGAIN, And if he repents again, his sins will be cover again,
I do not know how you could get any planner then this.

Then it looks like you’re not going to heaven because you’re still a sinner. And if you say you’re not, then you’re calling God a liar.

 

[throughfaith]

To cover the sins that I have committed, itis,
But to keep on sinning, NO NO NO !!!
3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; This tells you that it is the sins that you have Committed already , n ot the sins that we are going to commit after we get clean, that just gets us un clean,


WE need to see that this is a brother in CHRIST
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
And we to see that he was going to die the death, And NOTICE that because he is sinning AGAIN, And if he repents again, his sins will be cover again,
I do not know how you could get any planner then this.

Because you have a presupposition already in place ,your drawn to every verse that LOOKS like its talking about losing salvation. Check the context .

 

[bud62]

“For God so loved the world He gave His own Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.”

“And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

All direct quotes from Jesus Christ regarding our obtaining salvation simply by having faith in Him. We are saved by grace through faith.

The BIBLE dose not say shall not perish, The BIBLE says SHOULD not perish,, AND there is A world of difference in them, even from being saved to LOST. YOU need to get A BIBLE that TELLS YOU THE TRUTH, IT could even mean life