Works Complete Faith?
- Thread starter romans113336
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
And yet... Christians are start doing evil works and become separated from the Lord because they have turned from being led by the Holy Spirit to being led by devils to do sinful things.
If they don't turn from their sin and confess it to the Lord asking for forgiveness then they will remain UN-righteous even though some claim one can do sinful things and still be righteous as though the Lord is a minister of sin and He just winks at sin and it's all good.
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.
Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)
This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)
In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...
G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
If they don't turn from their sin and confess it to the Lord asking for forgiveness then they will remain UN-righteous even though some claim one can do sinful things and still be righteous as though the Lord is a minister of sin and He just winks at sin and it's all good.
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.
Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)
This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)
In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...
G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
-
1
- Show all
Good Works
---------------------------------
The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.
Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
It's not a matter of trying to earn salvation thru good works... It's a matter of being obedient verses being disobedient!
Those that accept the calling of the Lord and become new creatures in Christ Jesus abiding in Him doing good works by the power of the Holy Spirit within as the Lord leads... these are true children of God.
Those claiming to be saved not walking in obedience have rejected the ordination and calling of the Lord and are the children of disobedience who refuse to put on the new man and walk in newness of life to stop being servants of sin...
Colossians 3:5-9
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
As these scripture references indicate, those not accepting the calling of the Lord to be led by the Holy Ghost into walking after the new man are in disobedience... which will NOT end well for them unless they repent of their sin and get with the Lord's game plan!
---------------------------------
The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.
Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
It's not a matter of trying to earn salvation thru good works... It's a matter of being obedient verses being disobedient!
Those that accept the calling of the Lord and become new creatures in Christ Jesus abiding in Him doing good works by the power of the Holy Spirit within as the Lord leads... these are true children of God.
Those claiming to be saved not walking in obedience have rejected the ordination and calling of the Lord and are the children of disobedience who refuse to put on the new man and walk in newness of life to stop being servants of sin...
Colossians 3:5-9
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
As these scripture references indicate, those not accepting the calling of the Lord to be led by the Holy Ghost into walking after the new man are in disobedience... which will NOT end well for them unless they repent of their sin and get with the Lord's game plan!
-
1
-
1
- Show all
This "works flow naturally from faith" idea is only necessary for someone who believes in "faith alone" ... but then you read the Bible, and you find that the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole.
You have to do mental gymnastics, and maybe throw in a little mental tarot card reading, to continue holding to your stance in the face of James 2 ("Abraham was justified by works"), or Ro 14:5,23 (Christians who "sin" aren't "justified" but "condemned"), or 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10 (salvation and the promise can be forfeited through sin).
The Corinthians, also, were living sinfully, but no one doubts they had "true" faith.
James 4 calls his audience "adulteresses" against "God"--on your view, this should not be possible!
James isn't talking about "true" and "false" faith--when comparing faith to a body, he never mentions a "mannequin", only an incomplete body (without its spirit--dead) and a complete one (with its spirit--living), corresponding to an incomplete faith (without works--dead) and a complete faith (with works--living).
Demons believing doesn't refer to a "false" faith--Jesus never promised to save demons by faith, so there is no amount of faith that could save a demon, the point is they also have "faith alone", and they do not have WORKS.
The man who "says he has faith": James is just comparing the persuasive power of his statement against the persuasive power of a life of good works, and asking which one actually glorifies God, so as to move the audience to works, because glorifying God is the point of Christianity.
You have to do mental gymnastics, and maybe throw in a little mental tarot card reading, to continue holding to your stance in the face of James 2 ("Abraham was justified by works"), or Ro 14:5,23 (Christians who "sin" aren't "justified" but "condemned"), or 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10 (salvation and the promise can be forfeited through sin).
The Corinthians, also, were living sinfully, but no one doubts they had "true" faith.
James 4 calls his audience "adulteresses" against "God"--on your view, this should not be possible!
James isn't talking about "true" and "false" faith--when comparing faith to a body, he never mentions a "mannequin", only an incomplete body (without its spirit--dead) and a complete one (with its spirit--living), corresponding to an incomplete faith (without works--dead) and a complete faith (with works--living).
Demons believing doesn't refer to a "false" faith--Jesus never promised to save demons by faith, so there is no amount of faith that could save a demon, the point is they also have "faith alone", and they do not have WORKS.
The man who "says he has faith": James is just comparing the persuasive power of his statement against the persuasive power of a life of good works, and asking which one actually glorifies God, so as to move the audience to works, because glorifying God is the point of Christianity.
E
not interested in anything you have to say after your crude and rude posts to another poster the other day in another thread. here you are preaching works and have the vulgarness to say those things to someone else you don't even know. You are the one who should be banned for saying those things.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
- Status