WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION IN FEAR AND TREMBLING.
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I'll quote just the part I was pointing out (even if just for the sake of the readers who may care to read it further--it is not too much longer than this small portion):
[quoting from link]
Robert Anderson - Forgotten Truths Appendix 4: Philippians 3:8-14 (ochristian.com)
Ephesians and Colossians, be it remembered, were written at the same period of his ministry as Philippians; and in the light of these Scriptures we can read this chapter aright. To "win Christ" (ver. 8), or to apprehend, or lay hold of, that for which he had been laid hold of, or apprehended (ver. 12); or in other words, to realize practically in his life on earth what was true of him doctrinally as to his standing before God in heaven -- this is what he was reaching toward, and what, he says, he had not "already attained."
The "high calling" of ver. 14 is interpreted by some to mean Christ's calling up His own to meet Him in the air (a blessing assured to all "who are alive and remain unto the Coming of the Lord"); but this is not in keeping with the plain words -- God's high calling in Christ Jesus, i.e. what God has called us (made us) to be in Christ. [that is, IN THE HERE AND NOW]
If this passage refers to the literal resurrection, then the words "not as though I had already attained must mean that, while here on earth, and before the Lord's Coming, the Apostle hoped either to undergo the change of ver. 21, or else to win some sort of saintship diploma, or certificate, to ensure his being raised at the Coming. These alternatives are inexorable; and they only need to be stated to ensure their rejection.
One word more. If the Apostle Paul, after such a life of saintship and service, was in doubt as to his part in the resurrection, no one of us, unless he be the proudest of Pharisees or the blindest of fools, will dream of attaining it. In fact we shall dismiss the subject from our minds.
[end quoting; bracketed note mine; bold and underline mine; parentheses original]
I do not think we disagree on this point... in fact, this is what I was pointing out (and especially that "work-out your own salvation" [they did not need Paul present with them, and though they were in "fearful" circumstances due to his imprisonment], Paul is exhorting them to "DO IT AFRAID, if you must! [
]," [note again 1:14, said of others] in the salvation they possess presently--and no, I am not suggesting one can "lose or forfeit" salvation, just to be clear. )
[quoting from link]
Robert Anderson - Forgotten Truths Appendix 4: Philippians 3:8-14 (ochristian.com)
Ephesians and Colossians, be it remembered, were written at the same period of his ministry as Philippians; and in the light of these Scriptures we can read this chapter aright. To "win Christ" (ver. 8), or to apprehend, or lay hold of, that for which he had been laid hold of, or apprehended (ver. 12); or in other words, to realize practically in his life on earth what was true of him doctrinally as to his standing before God in heaven -- this is what he was reaching toward, and what, he says, he had not "already attained."
The "high calling" of ver. 14 is interpreted by some to mean Christ's calling up His own to meet Him in the air (a blessing assured to all "who are alive and remain unto the Coming of the Lord"); but this is not in keeping with the plain words -- God's high calling in Christ Jesus, i.e. what God has called us (made us) to be in Christ. [that is, IN THE HERE AND NOW]
If this passage refers to the literal resurrection, then the words "not as though I had already attained must mean that, while here on earth, and before the Lord's Coming, the Apostle hoped either to undergo the change of ver. 21, or else to win some sort of saintship diploma, or certificate, to ensure his being raised at the Coming. These alternatives are inexorable; and they only need to be stated to ensure their rejection.
One word more. If the Apostle Paul, after such a life of saintship and service, was in doubt as to his part in the resurrection, no one of us, unless he be the proudest of Pharisees or the blindest of fools, will dream of attaining it. In fact we shall dismiss the subject from our minds.
[end quoting; bracketed note mine; bold and underline mine; parentheses original]
I do not think we disagree on this point... in fact, this is what I was pointing out (and especially that "work-out your own salvation" [they did not need Paul present with them, and though they were in "fearful" circumstances due to his imprisonment], Paul is exhorting them to "DO IT AFRAID, if you must! [
]," [note again 1:14, said of others] in the salvation they possess presently--and no, I am not suggesting one can "lose or forfeit" salvation, just to be clear. )
The prevailing understanding in Christianity today is that, LIKE ISRAEL, we are on earth to worship and serve God in the Person of Christ. That is, we are here and Jesus is above the highest heaven sitting at the right hand of the Father in His throne. Instead of 613 laws of Moses, we have declared the circa 2,400 commands of the New Testament as our lifetstyle. One day, Jesus will return and take us all to heaven with Him. But this is a pitiful view of things. The Bible reveals the following.
Man was created (i) in God's image and likeness, to display Him, and (ii) to subdue and rule the earth, sea and sky (Gen.1:26-28). To acheive this, God put man in front to a Tree of Life and commanded him to eat. When we eat anything, the metabolism assimilates the elements of the food and distributes it through the body organically. Adam and Eve, though perfect in their construction, could not display God without having God's nature. And man, made "lower than the angels" could not subdue and rule angels and demons without God's power. God's immutable councils with man hung on what he ATE. It was, WHAT WAS ORGANICALLY IN MAN that would decide the outcome.
The Book of John fills the gap - the missing link. It is a Book dedicated to God getting Himself into man to achieve His purpose of having man in His image and likeness, having the character and power to subdue and rule a superior enemy (Rom.8:29). Paul's revelation was not an abstract group of base men behaving well and going to heaven. Paul's revelation was "GET CHRIST INTO THE MAN AND LET HIM PERMEATE THE WHOLE MAN!" If God could get Christ into men, and Christ could occupy, motivate, empower and rule a man, that man would fulfill God's purpose of Genesis 1:26-28. Philippians is a Book about experiencing Christ INTIMATELY. Look at
Philippians 1:11, "Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God"
"Being filled" is INTRINSIC. It is not a work by command, but a work of inner nature. A dog does not need a command to bark. He will do it by nature. A man cannot turn the other cheek, except that he has that nature - the nature of Christ.
"Which are by Jesus Christ". All is clear, this inward "filling" is motivated, requested and energized by Jesus Christ INSIDE the man
"Unto the glory and praise of God". The end result is to display God so that men might see Who and What He is.
So when we come, in Chapter 3, the words "to GAIN Christ", "to WIN Christ", "to know the FELLOWSHIP of His sufferings", "to be made conformable to His death" and to "Know the power of His resurrection" ALL POINT TO AN INTIMATE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE GAINED BY AN INTIMATE PERSONAL WALK WITH HIM ON THE SAME ROAD HE WALKED, AND, HAVE HIM IN YOU as a constant companion, speaking and motivating, and empowering you.
I agree that we must have an intellectual knowledge of Him, and with this we form our doctrines. But how will a doctrine make you "conformable with His death"??? Paul had the revelation with which to approach the Gentiles, build Churches and stand before kings with the gospel. His intellectual knowledge was vast, but he was missing the EXPERIENCE of Christ's overcoming life and nature. Have you been conformed to His death yet? Have you experienced resurrection life? Paul writes "I stretch for ...", and "I forget what is behind"! This costs. Paul actually lowers intellectual knowledge. As a Pharisee under Gamaliel, he was abounding in intellectual knowledge. After 14 years being personally taught the mysteries of the Church, the Rapture, the Second Coming of Christ, Paul was filled to capacity with intellectual knowledge. What he wanted in Philippians 3 was not more intellect. It was to be intimately acquainted with the person of Jesus INTRINSICALLY.
And in both the warning of Matthew 7:21-23, and the Virgins of Matthew 25, the deciding factor was; "I DON'T RECOGNIZE YOU" WE WERE NOT INTIMATE! Thus, if we take Philippians 3:8-14 literally and plainly for what it says, there is no problem. Christ "TAKES" some and "LEAVES" some based on INTIMACY. Have you ever wondered why only THREE of TWELVE disciples went with Him up the Mountain of Transfiguration? On this mountain we have Christ seen as never before - in glory. We have three disciples (the number of resurrection) - not twelve (the totality of God's people). We have Elijah who speaks for those alive and raptured by an UP-CALLING. We have Moses, the faithful dead whose body was fought for so that he could experience the resurrection life of Christ. But not any resurrection! It is the "EX-anastasis" (Gk.). It is only used once and means the resurrection out of the resurrection. And Paul says it must be ATTAINED.
I dare say that Philippians 3:8-14 is as plain as it reads. A Christian can be saved. He can do major works for Christ. But if he did not walk INTIMATELY with Him on His dusty, troubled, road to rejection and death, he will not ATTAINto the "out-resurrection" or the "PRIZE" of the Upward call of God.
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...speaking of "THE HERE AND NOW".
...again, speaking of "THE HERE AND NOW".
The entire CONTEXT [esp. per 2:3 "MIND" thru 3:19 "MIND" (and everything in between)] has to do with "MIND" (the Christlike "MIND"--"in the HERE AND NOW")
[in 1:11's "having been filled [perfect participle] with the fruit of righteousness which IS by means of Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father" is Paul speaking of this from that future-end-point time-slot POINT OF VIEW/PERSPECTIVE, when we are finally with Him (this is Paul's PRAYER that they are "having been filled with" to that point), but this verse is not unlike the Heb13:21 verse also saying, "Now the God of peace... make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight BY MEANS OF JESUS CHRIST, to Whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." which is also speaking of "in the here and now"... and the "how"]
...again, speaking of "THE HERE AND NOW".
The entire CONTEXT [esp. per 2:3 "MIND" thru 3:19 "MIND" (and everything in between)] has to do with "MIND" (the Christlike "MIND"--"in the HERE AND NOW")
[in 1:11's "having been filled [perfect participle] with the fruit of righteousness which IS by means of Jesus Christ, to the glory of God the Father" is Paul speaking of this from that future-end-point time-slot POINT OF VIEW/PERSPECTIVE, when we are finally with Him (this is Paul's PRAYER that they are "having been filled with" to that point), but this verse is not unlike the Heb13:21 verse also saying, "Now the God of peace... make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight BY MEANS OF JESUS CHRIST, to Whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." which is also speaking of "in the here and now"... and the "how"]
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5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
In the context of this verse if any one is trying to work for their salvation , or working to keep salvation. Even to keep themselves ' delivered ' from bonds or death, even for rewards, then you've missed the whole point Paul is making. Its all about selflessness, working and striving for the sake of OTHERS and the furtherance of the Gospel. Its not about working on our selves, for ourselves ect .
5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
5¶Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
21For all SEEK THIER OWN , not the things which are Jesus Christ's. The truly saved person is safe and secure and has no need to ' seek their own ' and fear needing to work FOR their salvation or to maintain or keep their salvation. No they can focus on the needs of others . Selflessly not selfishly .
21For all SEEK THIER OWN , not the things which are Jesus Christ's. The truly saved person is safe and secure and has no need to ' seek their own ' and fear needing to work FOR their salvation or to maintain or keep their salvation. No they can focus on the needs of others . Selflessly not selfishly .
I don't see how PEOPLE call Keeping GOD COMMANDMENTS WORKS, I try to KEEP MAN LAWS, THEY have NEVER
PAID ME FOR KEEPING THEM, THEY ARE OUR DUTTY TO KEEP, AS LONG AS MANS LAWS DON'T GO AGAINST GOD'S LAWS,
THEN WE ARE TO OBEY GOD AND NOT MAN !!!!!!!
THE BIBLE says that the COMMANDMENTS ARE OUR DUTY TO KEEP, LIKE TAKING CARE OF OUR CHILDREN, IT is our duty.
12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.
PAID ME FOR KEEPING THEM, THEY ARE OUR DUTTY TO KEEP, AS LONG AS MANS LAWS DON'T GO AGAINST GOD'S LAWS,
THEN WE ARE TO OBEY GOD AND NOT MAN !!!!!!!
THE BIBLE says that the COMMANDMENTS ARE OUR DUTY TO KEEP, LIKE TAKING CARE OF OUR CHILDREN, IT is our duty.
12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.
THAT IS WHAT GOD'S WORD IS FOR, Basic instructions before leaving earth. Adan and Eve
wouldn't have needed saved if they had not sinned,
BUT people love their SINS, and most hold on to them real tight, TILL they are dead and
to late to try to repent of them,
BUT GOD HATES SIN, BUT HE DOES LOVE THE SINNER, Enough that HE DIED IN their place, on
the CROSS,
so they could repent and turn away from their sins, and be saved from what they have
done,
But if they HOLD on to their sins, GOD will have no choice but to destroy them to get
rid of sins FOR EVER,
THAT is why he deals with US , SO long, IS that HE LOVES US, AND works with us, that
HE MITE NOT HAFT TO DESTROY US WHEN HE DESTROYS SINS. And if YESUAH does haft to destroy
us WE will have no one to blame, BUT US AND Satan,
for giving us reason and hope in being saved, without giving up our sins, AND loving
what put YESUAH on the CROSS in the FIRST PLACE, THE BIBLE TEACHES US TO LEARN TO HATE
SINS, NOT TO LOVE WHAT CAUSED OUR SAVIOR TO GO TO THE CROSS
wouldn't have needed saved if they had not sinned,
BUT people love their SINS, and most hold on to them real tight, TILL they are dead and
to late to try to repent of them,
BUT GOD HATES SIN, BUT HE DOES LOVE THE SINNER, Enough that HE DIED IN their place, on
the CROSS,
so they could repent and turn away from their sins, and be saved from what they have
done,
But if they HOLD on to their sins, GOD will have no choice but to destroy them to get
rid of sins FOR EVER,
THAT is why he deals with US , SO long, IS that HE LOVES US, AND works with us, that
HE MITE NOT HAFT TO DESTROY US WHEN HE DESTROYS SINS. And if YESUAH does haft to destroy
us WE will have no one to blame, BUT US AND Satan,
for giving us reason and hope in being saved, without giving up our sins, AND loving
what put YESUAH on the CROSS in the FIRST PLACE, THE BIBLE TEACHES US TO LEARN TO HATE
SINS, NOT TO LOVE WHAT CAUSED OUR SAVIOR TO GO TO THE CROSS
Let's see what the Holy Spirit said.
12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings"
Verse 12: Paul calls for OBEDIENCE, not only when he is present, but much more when he is absent. He is absent at the time of writing.
Verse 12: Paul call to obedience is followed by a command. "You Philippian BELIEVERS, who have believed and are saved, and who are members of the CHURCH, my command, to be obeyed, is; WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMPLING!"
Verse 13: "For" "Because" "for the reason of"
Verse 13: God is working IN YOU. God calls you to obedience to cooperate with His effort IN YOU. You must WORK, but God is WORKING TOO
Verse 13: BOTH to SO THAT YOU (i) make the decision in favor of Him, and (ii) to carry it out by His power added to you
Verse 14: The EFFORT employed by YOU, and the setting aside of YOUR will in favor of His will be difficult and might tempt YOU to MURMUR. And in the process of OBEYING me and what it ENTAILS might tend to an argument with others. Don't MURMUR ans and don't get involved in a DISPUTE
That is the grammatical content of these verses. Language is given by God. It has rules so that it can transmit ideas consistently. So this is the idea transmitted
12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings"
Verse 12: Paul calls for OBEDIENCE, not only when he is present, but much more when he is absent. He is absent at the time of writing.
Verse 12: Paul call to obedience is followed by a command. "You Philippian BELIEVERS, who have believed and are saved, and who are members of the CHURCH, my command, to be obeyed, is; WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMPLING!"
Verse 13: "For" "Because" "for the reason of"
Verse 13: God is working IN YOU. God calls you to obedience to cooperate with His effort IN YOU. You must WORK, but God is WORKING TOO
Verse 13: BOTH to SO THAT YOU (i) make the decision in favor of Him, and (ii) to carry it out by His power added to you
Verse 14: The EFFORT employed by YOU, and the setting aside of YOUR will in favor of His will be difficult and might tempt YOU to MURMUR. And in the process of OBEYING me and what it ENTAILS might tend to an argument with others. Don't MURMUR ans and don't get involved in a DISPUTE
That is the grammatical content of these verses. Language is given by God. It has rules so that it can transmit ideas consistently. So this is the idea transmitted
- YOU Always OBEY
- YOU WORK
- YOU work out YOUR salvation
- YOU do it with YOUR FEAR and TREMBLING as motivation lest you fail YOURSELF and MY COMMANDS
- YOU have God IN YOU as the main Help YOU in YOUR decisions and in the power for YOU CARRY IT OUT
- YOU will be stretched but don't YOU murmur
- If YOU cooperate with God IN YOU, others will be bewildered. DON'T YOU get into an argument about it. Just DO it.
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To obey in furthering the Gospel.
Salvation = theirs. There own salvation . They have IT now work IT out . Do something with IT . FOR something, DO something. That something is given by example from Paul. Not to shrink back because there is suffering or that they may be imprisoned or killed but as Paul s suffering and bonds shows is that the Gospel is advancing .
Salvation = theirs. There own salvation . They have IT now work IT out . Do something with IT . FOR something, DO something. That something is given by example from Paul. Not to shrink back because there is suffering or that they may be imprisoned or killed but as Paul s suffering and bonds shows is that the Gospel is advancing .