Will there be a fourth temple in Jerusalem?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
["Covenant Theology" tells you that; But Scripture itself does NOT]
Like in my previous post (or one of them), Joseph had TWO "dreams"--his FIRST dream (prophetically) corresponds with Jesus' FIRST advent; Joseph's SECOND dream corresponds (prophetically) with Jesus' SECOND advent ([events surrounding] what we commonly call His "Second Coming");
... my point being, that MANY OT prophecies likewise SPAN BOTH ADVENTS (the ones [in the OT] concerning the LATTER of these two not yet having been fulfilled);
Jesus' words in Luke 4:16-21 (where He's quoting PART of Isa61, but stops short of quoting it in its entirety) is a commonly referred to EXAMPLE of such.
In the OT there are MANY references to [the events surrounding] His Second Coming to the earth (which haven't yet been fulfilled--while YOU are saying there are NONE [coz they're supposedly ALL in the NT ALONE, according to you])!
This is WHY the hearers of Peter (in Acts 3, I just posted about) ONLY "SAW" (were only LOOKING TOWARD) the aspects pertaining to His [what we call] SECOND ADVENT, completely OVERLOOKING / BYPASSING His "SUFFERING SERVANT" aspects (that they neglected connecting with their "Messiah")
Like in my previous post (or one of them), Joseph had TWO "dreams"--his FIRST dream (prophetically) corresponds with Jesus' FIRST advent; Joseph's SECOND dream corresponds (prophetically) with Jesus' SECOND advent ([events surrounding] what we commonly call His "Second Coming");
... my point being, that MANY OT prophecies likewise SPAN BOTH ADVENTS (the ones [in the OT] concerning the LATTER of these two not yet having been fulfilled);
Jesus' words in Luke 4:16-21 (where He's quoting PART of Isa61, but stops short of quoting it in its entirety) is a commonly referred to EXAMPLE of such.
In the OT there are MANY references to [the events surrounding] His Second Coming to the earth (which haven't yet been fulfilled--while YOU are saying there are NONE [coz they're supposedly ALL in the NT ALONE, according to you])!
This is WHY the hearers of Peter (in Acts 3, I just posted about) ONLY "SAW" (were only LOOKING TOWARD) the aspects pertaining to His [what we call] SECOND ADVENT, completely OVERLOOKING / BYPASSING His "SUFFERING SERVANT" aspects (that they neglected connecting with their "Messiah")
Quote the rest of the passage (to make proper sense of this verse):
1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. 3 Because they were ignorant of God’s righteousness and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.
It sounds as if you are suggesting that Paul only "prayed" for those who WOULD / DO become "believers" / the saved (which you are calling "Israel," here). I do not believe the passage is making such a point. In fact, the "73 times" that the NT uses the word "Israel," it ALWAYS means "Israel" (those from that nation)-- The Israel of God, the term "Israel" in the New Testament (middletownbiblechurch.org) [SEE ESP: Rom9:6,11:26, Eph2:12... and Gal6:16]
In Romans 9-11, the CONTRAST is "nations"...
(that is, those of the ONE "nation" [Israel]; and those of the "nationS [plural]" [i.e. the Gentiles])
1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. 3 Because they were ignorant of God’s righteousness and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.
It sounds as if you are suggesting that Paul only "prayed" for those who WOULD / DO become "believers" / the saved (which you are calling "Israel," here). I do not believe the passage is making such a point. In fact, the "73 times" that the NT uses the word "Israel," it ALWAYS means "Israel" (those from that nation)-- The Israel of God, the term "Israel" in the New Testament (middletownbiblechurch.org) [SEE ESP: Rom9:6,11:26, Eph2:12... and Gal6:16]
In Romans 9-11, the CONTRAST is "nations"...
(that is, those of the ONE "nation" [Israel]; and those of the "nationS [plural]" [i.e. the Gentiles])
naw I’m saying if you read what he’s saying it’s not really a dispute
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
the children of the promise
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
…For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:16, 27, 29 KJV
The seed of promise is Jesus those who are in Jesus Jew or gentile are Abraham’s seed and children of the promise made to him
“They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39
seems pretty simple
“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
John 1:10, 12-13 KJV
there’s no other name
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12 KJV
If an Israelite believes the gospel they are a child of God and hier of Abraham if a gentile believes the gospel they are a child of God and hier of Abraham
No one can be saved elsewise. If people accept Christ they are his hiers
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
the children of the promise
“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
…For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:16, 27, 29 KJV
The seed of promise is Jesus those who are in Jesus Jew or gentile are Abraham’s seed and children of the promise made to him
“They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39
seems pretty simple
“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
John 1:10, 12-13 KJV
there’s no other name
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12 KJV
If an Israelite believes the gospel they are a child of God and hier of Abraham if a gentile believes the gospel they are a child of God and hier of Abraham
No one can be saved elsewise. If people accept Christ they are his hiers
-
1
- Show all
He said (v.32), "This generation shall not pass away TILL ALL shall have taken place"...
...and the "ALL" here must necessarily INCLUDE Jesus' words regarding the "OF VERY-LENGTHY-DURATION" items v.24 had just spelled out (including its own "UNTIL" concept [v.24's]--"Jerusalem... TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles UNTIL..." [NOT "Gentiles coming to faith" as many suppose this refers to!]--WHICH CORRESPONDS WITH THE "TIME-PROPHECY" of Dan9, where that "time-prophecy" INCLUDES the thing written there about "DESOLATIONS [PLURAL] are determined" v.26c.
[the "time-prophecy" ITSELF (as a whole) speaking of "[___] are determined UPON THY [Daniel's] people, AND UPON THY [Daniel's] HOLY CITY"]; The first 69 [total] of those "Weeks/SEVENS" CONCLUDED on what we call Palm Sunday, when Jesus SAID the words in Lk19:42-44 [re: the city] and DID the action of Zech9:9 [also re: Jerusalem].)
...and the "ALL" here must necessarily INCLUDE Jesus' words regarding the "OF VERY-LENGTHY-DURATION" items v.24 had just spelled out (including its own "UNTIL" concept [v.24's]--"Jerusalem... TRODDEN DOWN OF the Gentiles UNTIL..." [NOT "Gentiles coming to faith" as many suppose this refers to!]--WHICH CORRESPONDS WITH THE "TIME-PROPHECY" of Dan9, where that "time-prophecy" INCLUDES the thing written there about "DESOLATIONS [PLURAL] are determined" v.26c.
[the "time-prophecy" ITSELF (as a whole) speaking of "[___] are determined UPON THY [Daniel's] people, AND UPON THY [Daniel's] HOLY CITY"]; The first 69 [total] of those "Weeks/SEVENS" CONCLUDED on what we call Palm Sunday, when Jesus SAID the words in Lk19:42-44 [re: the city] and DID the action of Zech9:9 [also re: Jerusalem].)
a you try to avoid everything be focusing on something you’ve interpreted like right now you e totwlly disregarded what it says plainly and you’ve focused on the word” all “
i can wuote again several verses and you’ll just ignore them and find a single word to say no no this world doesn’t mean that
It’s too hard to discuss the Bible with you you are t willing to let it teach you anything this if course is only my own opinion
i can wuote again several verses and you’ll just ignore them and find a single word to say no no this world doesn’t mean that
It’s too hard to discuss the Bible with you you are t willing to let it teach you anything this if course is only my own opinion
…… you aren’t making any point that’s relevant to anything I’m saying i don’t understand your point . I’m saying this honestly lol I don’t understand your style of communication is all I mean . Why won’t you read things before explaining them to me ?
What scripture are you referring to ? This one ?
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:32 KJV
Which is preceded in the same speech beforhand with this
“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:22 KJV
What’s your point I honestly dont understand what you’re trying to say I’m saying look at what Jesus told them.
Look here’s an example of my entire point it’s a simple one but you’ll have to just read the scriptures and acknolwedge how apparent it is
The old covenant held a resurrection promise that was given to them through thier prophets like for instance .
“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you,
and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
Ezekiel 37:13-14
This prophecy is according to the old covenant made between God and Israel the people of Jacob. Jesus has already fulfilled this in the gospel it’s about that generation when Christ was resurrected
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJ
It has nothing to do with the resurrection at Jesus second coming here this is New Testament prophecy of resurrection.
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
what I’m saying isn’t that isaiah or the prophets never said anything out the New Testament or it’s prophecy .
what im saying is there is prophecy that corresponds to each tertement in the Bible one has been fulfilled the other is still offered for all it has nothing to do with the Old Testament curses cast upon Israel and the world it’s what saves the people from that curse
“and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
Malachi 4:6 KJV
they rejected John and beheaded him then killed Jesus after rejecting him
So now
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate:
Isaiah 24:5-6 KJV
Now we need salvation because the earth is cursed to doom there is salvation offered in the New Testament a whole New Testament about a whole new kingdom
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
The things he said he would later do he has done now the things he’s said he’ll do later he will do
that’s how prophecy and fulfilllment works . They talked of things in the whole Bible like the end of the world
“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:20 KJV
What I’m saying is the above here is New Testament prophecy in that the new testement foretells it to the church
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:10, 13 KJV
again what I’m saying is this is a new twerwment prophecy yet to be fulfilled , I’m not talking about when it’s written , but according to which covenant is the promise made and to which world does it belong ?
at he church isn’t taught about restoration of the Old Testament temple lol we are his temple now
What scripture are you referring to ? This one ?
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:32 KJV
Which is preceded in the same speech beforhand with this
“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:22 KJV
What’s your point I honestly dont understand what you’re trying to say I’m saying look at what Jesus told them.
Look here’s an example of my entire point it’s a simple one but you’ll have to just read the scriptures and acknolwedge how apparent it is
The old covenant held a resurrection promise that was given to them through thier prophets like for instance .
“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you,
and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
Ezekiel 37:13-14
This prophecy is according to the old covenant made between God and Israel the people of Jacob. Jesus has already fulfilled this in the gospel it’s about that generation when Christ was resurrected
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJ
It has nothing to do with the resurrection at Jesus second coming here this is New Testament prophecy of resurrection.
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
what I’m saying isn’t that isaiah or the prophets never said anything out the New Testament or it’s prophecy .
what im saying is there is prophecy that corresponds to each tertement in the Bible one has been fulfilled the other is still offered for all it has nothing to do with the Old Testament curses cast upon Israel and the world it’s what saves the people from that curse
“and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
Malachi 4:6 KJV
they rejected John and beheaded him then killed Jesus after rejecting him
So now
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate:
Isaiah 24:5-6 KJV
Now we need salvation because the earth is cursed to doom there is salvation offered in the New Testament a whole New Testament about a whole new kingdom
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
The things he said he would later do he has done now the things he’s said he’ll do later he will do
that’s how prophecy and fulfilllment works . They talked of things in the whole Bible like the end of the world
“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:20 KJV
What I’m saying is the above here is New Testament prophecy in that the new testement foretells it to the church
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:10, 13 KJV
again what I’m saying is this is a new twerwment prophecy yet to be fulfilled , I’m not talking about when it’s written , but according to which covenant is the promise made and to which world does it belong ?
at he church isn’t taught about restoration of the Old Testament temple lol we are his temple now
VERSE 12 (you didn't quote ^ ) goes on to say, "wherein the heavens being on fire SHALL BE DISSOLVED..." (I point this out for the purpose of explaining further, below)...
Okay, (if I'm understanding you correctly)... Peter, in 2Pet3:10-13, is drawing [some of] this wording FROM ISAIAH 34:4.
That OT verse says, "4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree."
I always encourage the readers of Peter's words here in 2 Peter3, to READ BOTH CHAPTERS of Isaiah 34-35, in order to ascertain why Peter is drawing from this OT passage, to write what he does in this 2Pet3 passage.
Some mistakenly believe that "the day of the Lord" is "a singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"... but it ISN'T. It is a VERY LENGTHY time-period "IN WHICH" MUCH will transpire! (Isa34-35, from which Peter draws just a few words... iow, TWO CHAPTERS [Isa34-35] will begin to inform the reader of WHAT ALL it ENTAILS...)
... as opposed to just yanking ONE VERSE out of its context (34:4) and mistakenly injecting the "IDEA" that this is referring to "a singular 24-hr day" that Peter is speaking about, here (most mistakenly thinking that "the Day of the Lord" IS [only referencing] "Christ's Second Coming [to the earth]" [A MOMENT IN TIME] as though it is only "ONE SINGULAR 24-HR DAY" kind of "day" being talked about, by Peter in this text. Not so! The "IN WHICH" SPANS a VERY LENGTHY time-period ["the DOTL"])
Okay, (if I'm understanding you correctly)... Peter, in 2Pet3:10-13, is drawing [some of] this wording FROM ISAIAH 34:4.
That OT verse says, "4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree."
I always encourage the readers of Peter's words here in 2 Peter3, to READ BOTH CHAPTERS of Isaiah 34-35, in order to ascertain why Peter is drawing from this OT passage, to write what he does in this 2Pet3 passage.
Some mistakenly believe that "the day of the Lord" is "a singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"... but it ISN'T. It is a VERY LENGTHY time-period "IN WHICH" MUCH will transpire! (Isa34-35, from which Peter draws just a few words... iow, TWO CHAPTERS [Isa34-35] will begin to inform the reader of WHAT ALL it ENTAILS...)
... as opposed to just yanking ONE VERSE out of its context (34:4) and mistakenly injecting the "IDEA" that this is referring to "a singular 24-hr day" that Peter is speaking about, here (most mistakenly thinking that "the Day of the Lord" IS [only referencing] "Christ's Second Coming [to the earth]" [A MOMENT IN TIME] as though it is only "ONE SINGULAR 24-HR DAY" kind of "day" being talked about, by Peter in this text. Not so! The "IN WHICH" SPANS a VERY LENGTHY time-period ["the DOTL"])
All of Israel will be saved=All flesh will be saved=All those who have a heart of flesh will be saved.
They refer to those of the spirit,water,and the blood will be saved.
Not all of literal Israel will be saved.
Ezekiel 37:5-6
Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
Breath is the Holy Spirit.By his breath he created all things.By his spirit all things were created.Through his Holy Spirit ye shall live.
All those with the Holy Spirit know that Jesus is the Lord.
Ezekiel 37:11
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
They refer to those of the spirit,water,and the blood will be saved.
Not all of literal Israel will be saved.
Ezekiel 37:5-6
Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
Breath is the Holy Spirit.By his breath he created all things.By his spirit all things were created.Through his Holy Spirit ye shall live.
All those with the Holy Spirit know that Jesus is the Lord.
Ezekiel 37:11
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
-
1
- Show all
For the readers:
In an earlier post in this thread (I think it was this thread
), I had INCLUDED "Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23" (references)... and verses 20-23 of this CONTEXT says,
"20When the sticks on which you write are in your hand and in full view of the people, 21you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will take the Israelites out of the nations to which they have gone, and I will gather them from all around and bring them into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king will rule over all of them. Then they will no longer be two nations and will never again be divided into two kingdoms.
23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols or detestable images, or with any of their transgressions. I will save them from all their apostasies by which they sinned,c and I will cleanse them. Then they will be My people, and I will be their God."
[let the readers note its CONTEXT--this "dry bones" prophecy]
In an earlier post in this thread (I think it was this thread
), I had INCLUDED "Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23" (references)... and verses 20-23 of this CONTEXT says,"20When the sticks on which you write are in your hand and in full view of the people, 21you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will take the Israelites out of the nations to which they have gone, and I will gather them from all around and bring them into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king will rule over all of them. Then they will no longer be two nations and will never again be divided into two kingdoms.
23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols or detestable images, or with any of their transgressions. I will save them from all their apostasies by which they sinned,c and I will cleanse them. Then they will be My people, and I will be their God."
[let the readers note its CONTEXT--this "dry bones" prophecy]
-
1
- Show all