Why won't God tell us when the end is near/gonna happen ?

JohnDB · Aug 16, 2021

When Christopher Columbus discovered America... people in Europe thought sure that this was the end of the world like Revelations thought it was...
Same thing happened a couple hundred years before with the Children's Brigade.

Then when Bubonic Plague was wiping out ⅓ of Europe...almost half of the people dying...everyone was sure that this was the end (100 year war wasn't helping)

Then during WW One... people seen it as the Battle of Armageddon... especially when it ended with influenza.

Then people were sure that the end was coming with WWII... after all the whole world was at war.

Then, after this there was the Cold War... people were sure that nuclear bombs were going to strike at any time. This surely was going to be the end of the world.

Still not the end. Even though the signs of wars and plagues and Earthquakes have been non-stop for the past 500 years. (I'd say a longer period of time but history gets a bit shaky)

A mathematics guy named Miller used a calculus formula and figured out when he thought that Jesus was returning...and had a couple hundred followers. They sold all their possessions and gave the money away to the poor...they sat together out in a field singing songs and praying....but a week later they finally gave up and tried to beg for work enough to eat and have shelter...

"We will know the signs" has been the mantra of every Christian for centuries and two millennium now....

And there's been plenty of signs the whole time. Lots of them. In fact I'd say that the signs haven't stopped for 2,000 years.

Chances are that you are going to get old and die of natural causes.
No rapture, no escape, just a long steady process of getting old and worn out. You can live like you are going to live...or you can live like it's all pointless. It's a choice and an attitude.

Besides...the book of Revelation says "God wins"...that's all I really need to know anyway.

justpassinthrough · Aug 16, 2021

RaceBoy said:

Jesus gave us the signs to look for when He was about to return and gather His people at the resurrection and rapture.

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Matthew 24:32-33

Ogom · Aug 16, 2021

JohnDB said:

from the: International Journal of Humanities and Social Science Vol. 7, No. 1; January 2017

74 Justinian and the Eschatological milieu of the sixth century The sixth century

eschatological frame included for some of the Eastern Christians an actualization obligation to self-create by resistance an expectation that one day a righteous emperor will rise that will be helpful to their cause.165 Chiliasm was seemingly a self-help process where activities are expected to be self-generated on earth and not from heaven. Eusebius already had the idea that the millennium started with Constantine in 333 CE. Justinian is seen as the product of his times operating amidst wars, inner struggles, weird lifestyles, sleeplessness, ‘End of Times’ concepts, evangelism by force, reforms, war-debts and pests in and after 537-540, all that played a role in the transformation of Justinian from emperor to theologian.166 It is sometimes said that the papacy in contemporary times wishes he could be the next head of the United Nations but with Justinian changing his coin from emperor to theologian one wonders what he wanted to communicate to the ends of his reign to the world in 538? Is the spreading of the “theological-emperor” coin in ηγκ and the extensive church-building projects at Constantinople and elsewhere since then an attempt to actualize eschatology understood by the emperor in contrast to eschatology understood by the Eastern Church and western church at that time? Procopius for example also placed Justinian in eschatological frame but as Antichrist. Syriac eschatology of this time was in opposition to the role of the emperor.

After Justinian the eschatology of Pope ύregory and his understanding that the “δast Days have arrived” played a great role after 590. These concepts are not invented overnight and had a long history. Meier indicated for the sixth century and the time of Justinian “όür Mich war es dabei u.a. aufgrund diverser Vorarbeiten naheliegend, mich zunächst auf die Endzeiterwartungen im 6. Jarhhundert zu konzentrieren. Denn eschatologische Spekulationen und Naherwartungen gehören seit dem irdischen Wirken Jesu zu den zentralen Elementen christianisierte Gesellscahften in τst und West vorausgesetz werden, die insofern von diesem Denken geprägt sein musstenέ”167 The role of eschatology in the imperial house is best illustrated by a text that related that a certain church was built in the time of emperor Anastasios I (491-518) as the beginning of the millennium of Revelation 20 or in the frame of eschatology.168 It is thus a factor that is not touched upon by scholars, namely that sandwiched between the eastern and western eschatologies was the self-perceived “imperial-turned theologian” eschatology of Justinian as explanation for his actions in 538.

Western church deflation attempts of eschatological fever in the 4-6th centuries

R. Landes explained that historians perceived that Jerome and Augustine meant to tone down eschatological expectations especially the millennium fever of the end of the fifth century.169 “Sicherlich is es uέaέ ein Verdienst des

ISSN 2220-8488 (Print), 2221-0989 (Online) ©Center for Promoting Ideas, USA www.ijhssnet.com

75 Eusebios, wenn wir um 500 keinerlei Weltuntergangstimmung feststellen”έ170 “Indeed, by ηίί CE we have no document recognizing the arrival of the year 6000, no history dating by AM I, and no particular evidence of apocalyptic panic”έ171 He ascribed this success to the attitude of Jerome and Augustine to the matters of eschatology. Augustine had an impact on millenarianism. Augustine negative stance against eschatological discussions found a place in the ύelasian decretals (4λί CE) “which condemned almost every identifiable millenarian work or passage from the patristic period that had not already undergone ‘ablation’”έ172 “ύiven this dual attack on such texts past and present, an undisciplined cleric giving vent to his overactive apocalyptic imagination would stand little chance of having his work copied and preserved by later ecclesiastics”έ173 Landes felt that we cannot use the absence of proof for eschatological interest as a reality of an absence of the phenomenon itself. In fact, he found that certain documents indicated that AM I had a continuous stream of interest throughout the fifth century. In the time of Zeno (474-491) someone announced the end of the world in the year 6000.174

Landes argues this way for the sixth century: since we have the Eastern Church developing eschatology was the Western church silent due to the success of the deflating attempts by Eusebius, Jerome and Augustine or is it a distortion of the reality of phenomena by ecclesiastical historians?175 Berger’s citation of the σotiz indicating millenarianism is not discussed by Landes but is an important piece of evidence that some did understand that the End of Time was near in 491/2 or that the millennium or year 6000 has started. There are two ways of pruning eschatological hermeneutics of the prophecies: decrees as heretics and insisting on a Preteristic model rather than a Historicistic model of interpretation.176 The “pruned or conflated” of τecumenius is worth looking at in the sixth century surrounding 538.177

from: 538 A.D. and the Transition from Pagan Roman Empire to Holy Roman Empire: Justinian’s Metamorphosis from Chief of Staffs to Theologian*1

JohnDB · Aug 16, 2021

Ogom said:

from the: International Journal of Humanities and Social Science Vol. 7, No. 1; January 2017

74 Justinian and the Eschatological milieu of the sixth century The sixth century

eschatological frame included for some of the Eastern Christians an actualization obligation to self-create by resistance an expectation that one day a righteous emperor will rise that will be helpful to their cause.165 Chiliasm was seemingly a self-help process where activities are expected to be self-generated on earth and not from heaven. Eusebius already had the idea that the millennium started with Constantine in 333 CE. Justinian is seen as the product of his times operating amidst wars, inner struggles, weird lifestyles, sleeplessness, ‘End of Times’ concepts, evangelism by force, reforms, war-debts and pests in and after 537-540, all that played a role in the transformation of Justinian from emperor to theologian.166 It is sometimes said that the papacy in contemporary times wishes he could be the next head of the United Nations but with Justinian changing his coin from emperor to theologian one wonders what he wanted to communicate to the ends of his reign to the world in 538? Is the spreading of the “theological-emperor” coin in ηγκ and the extensive church-building projects at Constantinople and elsewhere since then an attempt to actualize eschatology understood by the emperor in contrast to eschatology understood by the Eastern Church and western church at that time? Procopius for example also placed Justinian in eschatological frame but as Antichrist. Syriac eschatology of this time was in opposition to the role of the emperor.

After Justinian the eschatology of Pope ύregory and his understanding that the “δast Days have arrived” played a great role after 590. These concepts are not invented overnight and had a long history. Meier indicated for the sixth century and the time of Justinian “όür Mich war es dabei u.a. aufgrund diverser Vorarbeiten naheliegend, mich zunächst auf die Endzeiterwartungen im 6. Jarhhundert zu konzentrieren. Denn eschatologische Spekulationen und Naherwartungen gehören seit dem irdischen Wirken Jesu zu den zentralen Elementen christianisierte Gesellscahften in τst und West vorausgesetz werden, die insofern von diesem Denken geprägt sein musstenέ”167 The role of eschatology in the imperial house is best illustrated by a text that related that a certain church was built in the time of emperor Anastasios I (491-518) as the beginning of the millennium of Revelation 20 or in the frame of eschatology.168 It is thus a factor that is not touched upon by scholars, namely that sandwiched between the eastern and western eschatologies was the self-perceived “imperial-turned theologian” eschatology of Justinian as explanation for his actions in 538.

Western church deflation attempts of eschatological fever in the 4-6th centuries

R. Landes explained that historians perceived that Jerome and Augustine meant to tone down eschatological expectations especially the millennium fever of the end of the fifth century.169 “Sicherlich is es uέaέ ein Verdienst des

ISSN 2220-8488 (Print), 2221-0989 (Online) ©Center for Promoting Ideas, USA www.ijhssnet.com

75 Eusebios, wenn wir um 500 keinerlei Weltuntergangstimmung feststellen”έ170 “Indeed, by ηίί CE we have no document recognizing the arrival of the year 6000, no history dating by AM I, and no particular evidence of apocalyptic panic”έ171 He ascribed this success to the attitude of Jerome and Augustine to the matters of eschatology. Augustine had an impact on millenarianism. Augustine negative stance against eschatological discussions found a place in the ύelasian decretals (4λί CE) “which condemned almost every identifiable millenarian work or passage from the patristic period that had not already undergone ‘ablation’”έ172 “ύiven this dual attack on such texts past and present, an undisciplined cleric giving vent to his overactive apocalyptic imagination would stand little chance of having his work copied and preserved by later ecclesiastics”έ173 Landes felt that we cannot use the absence of proof for eschatological interest as a reality of an absence of the phenomenon itself. In fact, he found that certain documents indicated that AM I had a continuous stream of interest throughout the fifth century. In the time of Zeno (474-491) someone announced the end of the world in the year 6000.174

Landes argues this way for the sixth century: since we have the Eastern Church developing eschatology was the Western church silent due to the success of the deflating attempts by Eusebius, Jerome and Augustine or is it a distortion of the reality of phenomena by ecclesiastical historians?175 Berger’s citation of the σotiz indicating millenarianism is not discussed by Landes but is an important piece of evidence that some did understand that the End of Time was near in 491/2 or that the millennium or year 6000 has started. There are two ways of pruning eschatological hermeneutics of the prophecies: decrees as heretics and insisting on a Preteristic model rather than a Historicistic model of interpretation.176 The “pruned or conflated” of τecumenius is worth looking at in the sixth century surrounding 538.177

from: 538 A.D. and the Transition from Pagan Roman Empire to Holy Roman Empire: Justinian’s Metamorphosis from Chief of Staffs to Theologian*1

Where I am not exactly one who fits in any of the three eschatological camps of futurist/preterist, almillenislist historicist or partial historicist.... I do agree that people's fancy has changed over the years.
It's a wind of doctrine... like the prayer of Jabez was for a while. (Although it was blatant and dropped like the "name it, claim it" group.)

I can't say that I don't belong in all three different groups either. Because I believe that all three groups have at least some merit to their hermeneutics...just not as much as they do. (Obviously)

God's word is timeless.
God's word is always true.
"Heaven and Earth will pass away but God's word will still remain."

So...I do believe that there will be a final eschaton. But if God wanted us to know quite readily (like the thousands of signs used to mark Jesus' arrival) then it would be much much more clear and uncontested hermeneutics. (Like sexual immorality is verboten) And then there's the prohibition of making the book of Revelation clear...not exactly something that I would want to test to see if God meant it or not.

So...I can state that the "secret things of God are secret still" And no "bestselling" book or movie has given us an accurate portrayal of future events.

GRACE_ambassador · Aug 16, 2021

JohnDB said:

Except for The Revelation Of The MYSTERY Is "No Longer A SECRET!" Amen:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

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Why won't God tell us when the end is near/gonna happen ?

JohnDB

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justpassinthrough

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Ogom

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JohnDB

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GRACE_ambassador

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