Why was a sinless sacrifice necessary?

[JStates]

Direct forgiveness sins of human by God is different from the meaning of Jesus Christ's crucifixion.
If you really understand the meaning of the birth of Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I can agree. Humanity needs a Mediator, and that Mediator IS Jesus Christ alone. NO ONE gets to approach God directly.

Enoch was translated directly into God's presence, skipping mortal death, BY FAITH. Faith in what? God's promise of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the Cross. Enoch didn't fully know, I don't think, how it all worked, but he believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.

Same as Abraham.

Same as any of us:

Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

(The one who justifies the ungodly in the above is Jesus Christ)

 

[soberxp]

I'm not sure I can agree. Humanity needs a Mediator, and that Mediator IS Jesus Christ alone. NO ONE gets to approach God directly.

Enoch was translated directly into God's presence, skipping mortal death, BY FAITH. Faith in what? God's promise of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the Cross. Enoch didn't fully know, I don't think, how it all worked, but he believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness.

Same as Abraham.

Same as any of us:

Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

(The one who justifies the ungodly in the above is Jesus Christ)

God really can directly forgive people's sins, but this is not as important as the plan of Jesus Christ's birth into the world.

You and I both know that God has planned the birth of Jesus Christ since the creation of the world.

Therefore, the coming of Jesus Christ is much more important than God's direct forgiveness sin of human .

 

[Tman]

You err, not knowing the Scriptures.

Moses was told to STRIKE the Rock in the wilderness ONCE, and then SPEAK to the Rock the second time.
He STRUCK the Rock TWICE, breaking the type, and for this he was forbidden from entering the Promised Land.
Why was striking the Rock TWICE a serious disobedience?

1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Christ was stricken ONCE for sins, NO MORE AND NO LESS. Old Testament believers are saved through faith by looking forward to Christ's sacrifice, and New Testament believers are saved by faith looking back.

Christ did not need to spill blood every time He forgave sins, like some pathetic anime character invoking his powers.

ONCE AND DONE!

You err, not knowing the Scriptures.

Moses was told to STRIKE the Rock in the wilderness ONCE, and then SPEAK to the Rock the second time.
He STRUCK the Rock TWICE, breaking the type, and for this he was forbidden from entering the Promised Land.
Why was striking the Rock TWICE a serious disobedience?

1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Christ was stricken ONCE for sins, NO MORE AND NO LESS. Old Testament believers are saved through faith by looking forward to Christ's sacrifice, and New Testament believers are saved by faith looking back.

Christ did not need to spill blood every time He forgave sins, like some pathetic anime character invoking his powers.

ONCE AND DONE!

God says He can forgive you with flour too, not just blood. I know your upset because this goes against your narrative

Leviticus
11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.

 

[JStates]

God really can directly forgive people's sins, but this is not as important as the plan of Jesus Christ's birth into the world.

You and I both know that God has planned the birth of Jesus Christ since the creation of the world.

Therefore, the coming of Jesus Christ is much more important than God's direct forgiveness sin of human .

You will have to give me a specific example from Scripture, I'm afraid, if I am to accept this. And it must be absolutely crystal clear.

Here is why I'm being so adamant about this. God is light; in Him is no darkness at all. He CANNOT arbitrarily forgive sins for no reason. That is something an UNJUST JUDGE would do. God WILL NOT, God CANNOT tolerate sin.

That is why the Cross was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the reconciliation of sinners. It satisfies the justice and righteousness and logic of God while permitting Him to offer forgiveness through Christ.

I suspect no matter what example you give me, any forgiveness of sinners by God is ultimately enacted by faith in Jesus Christ. God's nature demands it.

 

[JStates]

God says He can forgive you with flour too, not just blood. I know your upset because this goes against your narrative

Leviticus
11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.

THAT'S the Scripture you are trying to use to suggest that forgiveness of sins can be bought with material things? GET BEHIND ME, Simon the Sorcerer!

 

[soberxp]

God says He can forgive you with flour too, not just blood. I know your upset because this goes against your narrative

Leviticus
11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.

The Scriptures you quoted that is alternative to the way Jesus was not yet born.
Your understanding of God's direct forgiveness sin cannot replace the significance of Jesus Christ.
You must understand this.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I can't seem to nail down a really good answer to this. I know this is what God required, but why did He require it?

Share your ideas.

One who pays for the crimes of another, a redeemer, can not be guilty of the same crimes, He would have to pay for his own sin, which disqualifies him from paying for the sin of another.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I was thinking about this, and I believe the reason He had to be sinless was so He could be raised from the dead. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." The only way God could be just in raising Him from the dead was if He was sinless. And without the resurrection, as we know, the gospel amounts to nothing.

Another great reason, Amen.

The ressurection of Christ is essential to letting us know the father recived Jesus sacrifice as payment in full (tetelisti - it is finished) it is our hope. Just as he was risen, so we shall be he is the firstfruits

 

[soberxp]

You will have to give me a specific example from Scripture, I'm afraid, if I am to accept this. And it must be absolutely crystal clear.

Here is why I'm being so adamant about this. God is light; in Him is no darkness at all. He CANNOT arbitrarily forgive sins for no reason. That is something an UNJUST JUDGE would do. God WILL NOT, God CANNOT tolerate sin.

That is why the Cross was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the reconciliation of sinners. It satisfies the justice and righteousness and logic of God while permitting Him to offer forgiveness through Christ.

I suspect no matter what example you give me, any forgiveness of sinners by God is ultimately enacted by faith in Jesus Christ. God's nature demands it.

Mark 2:5-12

 

[JStates]

One who pays for the crimes of another, a redeemer, can not be guilty of the same crimes, He would have to pay for his own sin, which disqualifies him from paying for the sin of another.

I think that's a solid answer. The Bible says all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in God's eyes. The sacrifice must be sinless in order to be efficacious, otherwise it's a polluted sacrifice and a vain action. A sacrifice of Cain.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You have been deceived by letting other men tell you what the Bible says



Blood is not REQUIRED for God to forgive sin......if you believe the Bible



One of the most obvious examples found here

Matthew 9:2, 6

Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”



But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”



Here's another



Luke 7

48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”





When God handed down the law from Mt Sinai, He told them that here



Exodus 5:11

‘But if he is not able to bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then he who sinned shall bring for his offering one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a sin offering. He shall put no oil on it, nor shall he put frankincense on it, for it isa sin offering



Now don't be fooled, some here will have the gall to tell you that God CANNOT forgive sins without shedding blood, even though He is God and even though the Bible refutes this

The only reason God had the power to forgive sin was his knowledge of the cross

If God could just forgive sin, he would forgive it and all would be saved, all human and all angelic being who sinned could be forgiven. Christ could have stayed in heaven, and not have to suffer what he suffered.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You err, not knowing the Scriptures.

Moses was told to STRIKE the Rock in the wilderness ONCE, and then SPEAK to the Rock the second time.
He STRUCK the Rock TWICE, breaking the type, and for this he was forbidden from entering the Promised Land.
Why was striking the Rock TWICE a serious disobedience?

1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Christ was stricken ONCE for sins, NO MORE AND NO LESS. Old Testament believers are saved through faith by looking forward to Christ's sacrifice, and New Testament believers are saved by faith looking back.

Christ did not need to spill blood every time He forgave sins, like some pathetic anime character invoking his powers.

ONCE AND DONE!

Also remember what the scripture says, he passed over the sins previously commited.

It was all based on Gods foreknowledge

 

[Tman]

One who pays for the crimes of another, a redeemer, can not be guilty of the same crimes, He would have to pay for his own sin, which disqualifies him from paying for the sin of another.

The kinsman redeemer theory appears more biblical than the blood rituals

God doesn't allow for penal substitutionary atonement

Ezekiel 18
20 The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent’s sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child’s sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.

 

[Tman]

The only reason God had the power to forgive sin was his knowledge of the cross

If God could just forgive sin, he would forgive it and all would be saved, all human and all angelic being who sinned could be forgiven. Christ could have stayed in heaven, and not have to suffer what he suffered.

Uhhh, He created everything, He can do whatever He wants

Romans 9:15
For God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God says He can forgive you with flour too, not just blood. I know your upset because this goes against your narrative

Leviticus
11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.

Hebrews 9:22
And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission

 

[JStates]

Mark 2:5-12

Not to beat a dead horse here, but that example is Jesus Christ forgiving sins, not God the Father. As I said, all forgiveness of sins is through Jesus Christ's sacrifice.

I would appreciate someone else weighing in on this with Scripture if I am clearly and demonstrably wrong.

 

[Tman]

THAT'S the Scripture you are trying to use to suggest that forgiveness of sins can be bought with material things? GET BEHIND ME, Simon the Sorcerer!

Sola Scriptura.....I'm relying on the Bible, what are you relying on?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think that's a solid answer. The Bible says all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in God's eyes. The sacrifice must be sinless in order to be efficacious, otherwise it's a polluted sacrifice and a vain action. A sacrifice of Cain.

One can not fulfill the law if he has broken the law
jesus came as the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world

 

[Tman]

Hebrews 9:22
And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission

Star to you for finding one of the contradictions we are face down with

Do you believe God from Sinai or the anonymous writer of Hebrews

 

[JStates]

Sola Scriptura.....I'm relying on the Bible, what are you relying on?

Every time that SATAN speaks to man, he relies on Scripture also, Scripture twisted to his ulterior motives. I have had enough of you and will block you.