Why "The Bible" doesn't fulfil 1 Corinthians 13:10

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

jb

Senior Member
#61
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#61
Dave-L said:
Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7)
Notice they would not seek the gifts until the end of the world. But only until the Revelation of Christ who would also confirm them to the end. If the revelation also confirms them to the end, it is not the end in this case.

So when was the revelation of Jesus Christ that would also confirm them till the end? John sheds light on this in his final writing.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)
The revelation of Jesus Christ could mean “the revelation by (or from) Jesus Christ” or “the revelation about Jesus Christ,” or both may be included. The word revelation (or “apocalypse,” Greek apokalypsis) expresses the subject and nature of the book.
Click to expand...
You really do write a lot of (spiritual) twaddle!

Once again you have completely ripped a Scripture out of context!

You say (from 1Cor 1v7) that, "the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ," refers to the last book of the New Testament, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ," however, it clearly refers to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ: "waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (KJV) and so forth...

You completely ignore the fact that Acts 2v17-21,38,39 teaches that the baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are available to the Church throughout the whole of the age of Grace, right up to the Second Coming of Christ!

By saying that the gifts of the Spirit are no longer available to the Church, you are demonstrating your unbelief like the Israelites of old and limiting the Holy One of Israel, a major sin indeed! Psalm 78v41
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#62
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#62
Dave-L said:
Paul said; “so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:7)
Notice they would not seek the gifts until the end of the world. But only until the Revelation of Christ who would also confirm them to the end. If the revelation also confirms them to the end, it is not the end in this case.

So when was the revelation of Jesus Christ that would also confirm them till the end? John sheds light on this in his final writing.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)
The revelation of Jesus Christ could mean “the revelation by (or from) Jesus Christ” or “the revelation about Jesus Christ,” or both may be included. The word revelation (or “apocalypse,” Greek apokalypsis) expresses the subject and nature of the book.
Click to expand...
well that's the best argument you've presented thus far. Still wrong because of what is actually contained in the book of Revelation, but a decent argument as presented.

Does the version of the bible you read have 1 Corinthians 1:7 saying "until the revelation of Jesus" instead of "until the coming of Jesus"?

1 Corinthians 1:7-8 KJV
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: [8] Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I included verse 8 because again he's stating that it's us that needs to be perfected, not the word of God.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#63
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#63
Luke 17:28-31 KJV
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; [29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. [30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. [31] In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

He's not talking about the day a book is pronounced when referencing the revelation of Jesus. He's talking about the day of the coming of the Lord. The manifestation of Jesus in the earth. The day the woman (the church) brings forth (manifests) the manchild who is to rule all nations (Jesus) who gets caught up to God. <--That's Revelation 12.

Please note that prophecy is STILL FUNCTIONAL in Revelation 11:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. - Revelation 11:3 KJV​

The church doesn't bring forth the fullness of the stature of Christ until chapter 12. I see no more prophesyings after that.

The bible doesn't say there will be a ceasing, then a re-instating, then another ceasing of prophesying. It says these gifts will remain UNTIL that day comes. THEN will we see face to face and know as we are known. Just one ceasing... just one day.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#64
#64
jb said:
You really do write a lot of (spiritual) twaddle!

Once again you have completely ripped a Scripture out of context!

You say (from 1Cor 1v7) that, "the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ," refers to the last book of the New Testament, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ," however, it clearly refers to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ: "waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (KJV) and so forth...

You completely ignore the fact that Acts 2v17-21,38,39 teaches that the baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are available to the Church throughout the whole of the age of Grace, right up to the Second Coming of Christ!

By saying that the gifts of the Spirit are no longer available to the Church, you are demonstrating your unbelief like the Israelites of old and limiting the Holy One of Israel, a major sin indeed! Psalm 78v41
Click to expand...
twad·dle INFORMAL noun trivial or foolish speech or writing; nonsense. (I am learning)
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#65
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#65
KelbyofGod said:
well that's the best argument you've presented thus far. Still wrong because of what is actually contained in the book of Revelation, but a decent argument as presented.

Does the version of the bible you read have 1 Corinthians 1:7 saying "until the revelation of Jesus" instead of "until the coming of Jesus"?

1 Corinthians 1:7-8 KJV
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: [8] Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I included verse 8 because again he's stating that it's us that needs to be perfected, not the word of God.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
It's the same word in Greek. Apokalupsis. It's not the final Revelation but confirms us to the end. This uproots your argument.

Take a recorded tongues message around to several Charismatic Churches and have them interpret it. You will get a different interpretation every time.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#66
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#66
jb said:
You really do write a lot of (spiritual) twaddle!

Once again you have completely ripped a Scripture out of context!

You say (from 1Cor 1v7) that, "the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ," refers to the last book of the New Testament, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ," however, it clearly refers to the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ: "waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (KJV) and so forth...

You completely ignore the fact that Acts 2v17-21,38,39 teaches that the baptism in the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are available to the Church throughout the whole of the age of Grace, right up to the Second Coming of Christ!

By saying that the gifts of the Spirit are no longer available to the Church, you are demonstrating your unbelief like the Israelites of old and limiting the Holy One of Israel, a major sin indeed! Psalm 78v41
Click to expand...
This only a complaint without any scripture proof I'm wrong.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#67
#67
Dave-L said:
It's the same word in Greek. Apokalupsis. It's not the final Revelation but confirms us to the end. This uproots your argument.

Take a recorded tongues message around to several Charismatic Churches and have them interpret it. You will get a different interpretation every time.
Click to expand...
No one operating in the real gift of interpretation of tongues would interpret your recorded message. That is not how it works. If they would fall for that kind of "testing" they lack knowledge and understanding about the gift of interpretation, they are not operating in the real gift and no wonder you get different interpretations.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#68
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#68
Scribe said:
No one operating in the real gift of interpretation of tongues would interpret your recorded message. That is not how it works. If they would fall for that kind of "testing" they lack knowledge and understanding about the gift of interpretation, they are not operating in the real gift and no wonder you get different interpretations.
Click to expand...
So you need to take a tongue speaker around instead of a recording and prove it's real? That's easy to do. But we still ve zero evidence to prove it's biblical. Voodoo tongues fooled Wm Seymour and the early Pentecostals at Azusa street. Why not now?
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#69
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#69
Dave-L said:
It's the same word in Greek. Apokalupsis. It's not the final Revelation but confirms us to the end. This uproots your argument.

Take a recorded tongues message around to several Charismatic Churches and have them interpret it. You will get a different interpretation every time.
Click to expand...
Sweet. I like learning new things. Coming = revelation in 1 Corinthians 1:7. I hadn't looked it up. But it still points to a time after Revelation 11, because prophesying is still in operation.. (A.K.A hasn't "ceased")

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#70
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#70
KelbyofGod said:
Sweet. I like learning new things! Coming = revelation in 1 Corinthians 1:7. I hadn't looked it up. But it still points to a time after Revelation 11, because prophesying is still in operation.. (A.K.A hasn't "ceased")

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
Paul says to come behind in no gift until then. = Scripture arrived and is perfect.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#71
#71
Dave-L said:
So you need to take a tongue speaker around instead of a recording and prove it's real? That's easy to do. But we still ve zero evidence to prove it's biblical. Voodoo tongues fooled Wm Seymour and the early Pentecostals at Azusa street. Why not now?
Click to expand...
Dave-L said:
So you need to take a tongue speaker around instead of a recording and prove it's real? That's easy to do. But we still ve zero evidence to prove it's biblical. Voodoo tongues fooled Wm Seymour and the early Pentecostals at Azusa street. Why not now?
Click to expand...
Please think about this...

No one operating by the Spirit in the gift of tongues would play along with your testing efforts.
No one operating in the Spirit with the interpretation of tongues would demonstrate it for your testing purposes.
It does not work that way. All of the gifts of the Spirit are received by faith and operate by faith as one is lead along by the Holy Spirit.

Your testing attempts are considered as foolish attempts of the skeptic to find fault.
The Holy Spirit will not play along with your efforts to find fault or to prove them to be false. Therefore those who are lead by the Holy Spirit will not play along either. Don't you understand that?

Finding someone who is silly enough to play along only proves that they are not following the promptings of the Holy Spirit. So of course the results will be flesh, not authentic gifts.

I heard a DTS professor present this argument about the recording that you have presented. I was shocked that he did not think it through. It is not a logical argument from the perspective of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not go along with your recording interpretation test. He is not at your beck and call nor is he at the beck and call of the one who is silly enough to fall for your test trap idea.
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#72
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#72
For
Dave-L said:
Paul says to come behind in no gift until then. = Scripture arrived and is perfect.
Click to expand...
I assume you'll disagree but that means "Don't fall behind in any gift". Same as "covet to prophesy" means to work towards it rather than let it fade out. (because it will still be in operation thru Rev:11. :))

If it meant what you think it means there would be no prophesying going on in Revelation 11.

ALSO, those who say "Prophesying is only for the purpose of creating scripture" cannot reasonably hold your position about the scriptures being complete already because if that is the purpose of prophesying, then those two witnesses in Revalation 11 would be creating new scripture for 1260 days.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#73
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#73
KelbyofGod said:
For

I assume you'll disagree but that means "Don't fall behind in any gift". Same as "covet to prophesy" means to work towards it rather than let it fade out. (because it will still be in operation thru Rev:11. :))

If it meant what you think it means there would be no prophesying going on in Revelation 11.

ALSO, those who say "Prophesying is only for the purpose of creating scripture" cannot reasonably hold your position about the scriptures being complete already because if that is the purpose of prophesying, then those two witnesses in Revalation 11 would be creating new scripture for 1260 days.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Click to expand...
But only until the Revelation of Jesus Christ written by John (condensed).
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#74
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#74
Scribe said:
Please think about this...

No one operating by the Spirit in the gift of tongues would play along with your testing efforts.
No one operating in the Spirit with the interpretation of tongues would demonstrate it for your testing purposes.
It does not work that way. All of the gifts of the Spirit are received by faith and operate by faith as one is lead along by the Holy Spirit.

Your testing attempts are considered as foolish attempts of the skeptic to find fault.
The Holy Spirit will not play along with your efforts to find fault or to prove them to be false. Therefore those who are lead by the Holy Spirit will not play along either. Don't you understand that?

Finding someone who is silly enough to play along only proves that they are not following the promptings of the Holy Spirit. So of course the results will be flesh, not authentic gifts.

I heard a DTS professor present this argument about the recording that you have presented. I was shocked that he did not think it through. It is not a logical argument from the perspective of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not go along with your recording interpretation test. He is not at your beck and call nor is he at the beck and call of the one who is silly enough to fall for your test trap idea.
Click to expand...
Would they be found out if they did? Why run from the truth if you have it?
 
G

garee

Banned
#75
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#75
Dave-L said:
Perfect = complete. It means when scripture became complete, it replaced tongues and prophecy which provided only part of the New Covenant truth. Paul says scripture completely equips us.
Click to expand...
Tongues is prophecy it completely equips us with the armor of God . We have the the perfect as in complete .It lacks nothing. There are no laws missing in the perfect law. A warning is added at the end of the book of the perfect law .

Prophecy brings to light the hidden things of darkness daily when and if we mix the faith that comes from hearing with the things seen . The power of the gospel make our hearts soft as His prophecy works with us in order to do the good pleasure of His will.

No mixing of faith (gospel) then the eternal burden is on us with no help to lighten the load.

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

learn what it mean to mix faith.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#76
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#76
garee said:
Tongues is prophecy it completely equips us with the armor of God . We have the the perfect as in complete .It lacks nothing. There are no laws missing in the perfect law. A warning is added at the end of the book of the perfect law .

Prophecy brings to light the hidden things of darkness daily when and if we mix the faith that comes from hearing with the things seen . The power of the gospel make our hearts soft as His prophecy works with us in order to do the good pleasure of His will.

No mixing of faith (gospel) then the eternal burden is on us with no help to lighten the load.

Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

learn what it mean to mix faith.
Click to expand...
Tongues/prophecy = knew in part. Scripture = complete knowledge.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#77
#77
Dave-L said:
Would they be found out if they did? Why run from the truth if you have it?
Click to expand...
Would it be obvious if someone was not following the Holy Spirit in their demonstration? It would be to me.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#78
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#78
Scribe said:
Would it be obvious if someone was not following the Holy Spirit in their demonstration? It would be to me.
Click to expand...
According to your understanding? Who says it is right?
 
K

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
#79
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
720
113
#79
Dave-L said:
But only until the Revelation of Jesus Christ written by John (condensed).
Click to expand...
Dave,
You shouldn't try to bypass the fact that Prophesying is still operational all the way into Revelation chapter 11. There is no biblical support of a NEW need for prophesying AFTER "that which is perfect has come".

If he were talking about the book of revelation (rather than the actual REVEALING) then prophesying should already have ceased (according to your proposal) because we already have the book of Revelation. The very book you rely on for justification of your doctrine (the book of Revelation) itself disproves your doctrine.

You would be wise to take a few days away from the thread and cease proclaiming a doctrine which is so obviously false. I currently question whether you will use that much wisdom but I would actually love to find myself having underestimated you in that regard.

Meanwhile I will be praying FOR you, not against you.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
You must log in or register to reply here.