Why so much confusion about salvation?

[beta]

Indeed....with God all things are possible ! but I find it hard to believe that God has His people in every denomination. Many think that , but how can it be true ? They would have to believe and follow a human preacher INSTEAD of the Teacher come from God-Jesus...for 'no one can serve two masters ! There is only ONE true teacher, the rest are imposters, false christs we are warned against !!! Mat 24....and sadly christianity is riddled with them, following their own traditions from Rome via the RCC.
It breaks my heart to see the confusion and disagreement in that religion !

 

[Slayer]

Indeed....with God all things are possible ! but I find it hard to believe that God has His people in every denomination. Many think that , but how can it be true ? They would have to believe and follow a human preacher INSTEAD of the Teacher come from God-Jesus...for 'no one can serve two masters ! There is only ONE true teacher, the rest are imposters, false christs we are warned against !!! Mat 24....and sadly christianity is riddled with them, following their own traditions from Rome via the RCC.
It breaks my heart to see the confusion and disagreement in that religion !

It would be drawing a very long bow to say that all the "Christians" who worship God in false apostate Churches are lost. Yes they are being misled and taught false doctrine, but God can use their false teaching to cause His people to look into the scriptures and discover the truth.

What about all those who lived centuries ago, who never had access to a Bible and they only got to see the back of a Roman Catholic priest chanting stuff they don't understand in Latin. That's as close as many got the the Gospel in those days, surely God will deal with them differently to toady's willfully ignorant Christians.

 

[beta]

It would be drawing a very long bow to say that all the "Christians" who worship God in false apostate Churches are lost. Yes they are being misled and taught false doctrine, but God can use their false teaching to cause His people to look into the scriptures and discover the truth.

What about all those who lived centuries ago, who never had access to a Bible and they only got to see the back of a Roman Catholic priest chanting stuff they don't understand in Latin. That's as close as many got the the Gospel in those days, surely God will deal with them differently to toady's willfully ignorant Christians.

I didn't say they were lost....but why would they want to be in a church that teaches opposite to the Bible ?
Yes, I was one of those who listened to RC Priests spouting off in Latin ....for 50 years, not allowed/encouraged to read the Bible for myself but God brought me out of that environment and moved me 1000 miles away giving opportunity to learn the truth. That's why I said 'all things are possible with God if we have a willing mind and heart to believe Him ! Therefore God does not leave any of HIS people trapped in false denominations.

 

[Slayer]

I didn't say they were lost....but why would they want to be in a church that teaches opposite to the Bible ?
Yes, I was one of those who listened to RC Priests spouting off in Latin ....for 50 years, not allowed/encouraged to read the Bible for myself but God brought me out of that environment and moved me 1000 miles away giving opportunity to learn the truth. That's why I said 'all things are possible with God if we have a willing mind and heart to believe Him ! Therefore God does not leave any of HIS people trapped in false denominations.

I agree that there's no excuse for ignorance in our time with so much easy access to information. I think there are still people stuck in apostate Churches who may die before they get a good opportunity to compare their beliefs with true Biblicall doctrine.

I'm sure God has people in Muslim countries, who are currently trapped and not given the freedom to question their religion. I have heard of horrific persecution of some Muslims who converted to Christianity, they were, raped and murdered in large numbers.

There are others in China and North Korea who are suffering persecution and in many other parts of the world.

I'm sure God has people trapped in many false religions, some may remain trapped for their whole life but God can still save them because He looks at the heart.

 

[beta]

I agree that there's no excuse for ignorance in our time with so much easy access to information. I think there are still people stuck in apostate Churches who may die before they get a good opportunity to compare their beliefs with true Biblicall doctrine.

I'm sure God has people in Muslim countries, who are currently trapped and not given the freedom to question their religion. I have heard of horrific persecution of some Muslims who converted to Christianity, they were, raped and murdered in large numbers.

There are others in China and North Korea who are suffering persecution and in many other parts of the world.

I'm sure God has people trapped in many false religions, some may remain trapped for their whole life but God can still save them because He looks at the heart.

I need to ask the question - Are people FORCED to belong to a church or is it their own choice ? they are only 'trapped if they are FORCED into it...and WHY would God not free them ? there are reasons for everything and we don't know them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God has concluded all those natural men in unbelief that He God might have mercy upon all.

Ro 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

For the cause of Christ
Roge

If you think that God is waiting for the natural man to respond to him, according to 1 cor 2:14, the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not respond to a spiritual God, or any of God's spiritual laws because "NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM". I know that this scripture is too strongly worded to not allow man to have a part in his eternal salvation and you have been taught that man does have a part in his eternal salvation and you are not about to give it up. I understand that, because no man, like yourself who are children of God, before they can understand has to have the Spirit that is within you, to reveal the truth to you, and I truly believe that if a man does not deny ( give up on his own understanding ) himself, God will not reveal, because at the top of the list of things he hates ( somewhere in the book of Proverbs ) a proud look ( pride ) is at the top of the list. Eternal salvation, by works is nothing but the pride of man. Prov 3:5, Trust in the Lord with all thine, and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I agree that there's no excuse for ignorance in our time with so much easy access to information. I think there are still people stuck in apostate Churches who may die before they get a good opportunity to compare their beliefs with true Biblicall doctrine.

I'm sure God has people in Muslim countries, who are currently trapped and not given the freedom to question their religion. I have heard of horrific persecution of some Muslims who converted to Christianity, they were, raped and murdered in large numbers.

There are others in China and North Korea who are suffering persecution and in many other parts of the world.

I'm sure God has people trapped in many false religions, some may remain trapped for their whole life but God can still save them because He looks at the heart.

I like your mode of thinking.

 

[notuptome]

If you think that God is waiting for the natural man to respond to him, according to 1 cor 2:14, the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not respond to a spiritual God, or any of God's spiritual laws because "NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM". I know that this scripture is too strongly worded to not allow man to have a part in his eternal salvation and you have been taught that man does have a part in his eternal salvation and you are not about to give it up. I understand that, because no man, like yourself who are children of God, before they can understand has to have the Spirit that is within you, to reveal the truth to you, and I truly believe that if a man does not deny ( give up on his own understanding ) himself, God will not reveal, because at the top of the list of things he hates ( somewhere in the book of Proverbs ) a proud look ( pride ) is at the top of the list. Eternal salvation, by works is nothing but the pride of man. Prov 3:5, Trust in the Lord with all thine, and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are stuck on a faulty supposition. You are still jamming all your scriptures through a die of incorrect doctrine. Election does not save. Election cannot save. God only saves by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I agree that there's no excuse for ignorance in our time with so much easy access to information. I think there are still people stuck in apostate Churches who may die before they get a good opportunity to compare their beliefs with true Biblicall doctrine.

I'm sure God has people in Muslim countries, who are currently trapped and not given the freedom to question their religion. I have heard of horrific persecution of some Muslims who converted to Christianity, they were, raped and murdered in large numbers.

There are others in China and North Korea who are suffering persecution and in many other parts of the world.

I'm sure God has people trapped in many false religions, some may remain trapped for their whole life but God can still save them because He looks at the heart.

An over simplified view. God has witnesses in every country. In the Muslim countries they witness at the risk of their life. The gospel has gone into the whole world. Evil men have done their best to suppress the gospel but the more they try the more effective it is to those who receive it. You do not know the persecution they deal with every day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You are stuck on a faulty supposition. You are still jamming all your scriptures through a die of incorrect doctrine. Election does not save. Election cannot save. God only saves by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I understand where you are coming from, Roger, I used to be there myself for many years, until I gave up on my own understanding.

 

[notuptome]

I understand where you are coming from, Roger, I used to be there myself for many years, until I gave up on my own understanding.

Sorry but that dog won't hunt. It's not my understanding but scriptural understanding. You need to understand salvation from a scriptural view point. You accuse everyone who is not of a Calvinist bent that they do not understand. Well you give no evidence that you understand what it is to be saved.

You have a million excuse why everybody else is wrong but cannot see your personal error.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

You have a million excuse why everybody else is wrong but cannot see your personal error.

Calvin will trump the Bible every time. So there is little point in wasting time on this.

 

[notuptome]

Calvin will trump the Bible every time. So there is little point in wasting time on this.

Not with God.

If one hears is that not a great victory?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Slayer]

I need to ask the question - Are people FORCED to belong to a church or is it their own choice ? they are only 'trapped if they are FORCED into it...and WHY would God not free them ? there are reasons for everything and we don't know them.

I was raised in a Catholic home and I was not given a choice as a child to go to another Church, my parents didn't use physical force to make me go with them to Church but they used threats like not letting me go out and do things I like to do or not buy me things etc.

I was mainly referring to believers who happen to be stuck in the Muslim religion, where they can lose their life if they reveal their faith in Christ to their family.

Some Christians are born into all kinds of false religions and they face a lot of persecution if they don't go along with the tradition. My mother is the only one from my family who still talks to me, the rest are all hostile towards me. They accuse me of being a traitor, for joining their enemy the Protestants.

 

[Slayer]

An over simplified view. God has witnesses in every country. In the Muslim countries they witness at the risk of their life. The gospel has gone into the whole world. Evil men have done their best to suppress the gospel but the more they try the more effective it is to those who receive it. You do not know the persecution they deal with every day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Our Church supports our brothers and sisters in countries where Christians are tortured, raped and murdered. I'm very much aware of the persecution of our brethren, in hostile Countries.

The western countries are becoming more hostile towards Christians every day, our Church recently had to leave a Government building we were renting, because they told us we had to conform to their new rules about preaching. We were told that we must not preach that homosexual activity is a sin, they gave us a list of no no's, which diluted down the Gospel to a point where it loses it central message.

We believe that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg in the west, persecution will continue to get worse and we believe it will become like Stalinist Russia in a shot time.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Our Church supports our brothers and sisters in countries where Christians are tortured, raped and murdered. I'm very much aware of the persecution of our brethren, in hostile Countries.

The western countries are becoming more hostile towards Christians every day, our Church recently had to leave a Government building we were renting, because they told us we had to conform to their new rules about preaching. We were told that we must not preach that homosexual activity is a sin, they gave us a list of no no's, which diluted down the Gospel to a point where it loses it central message.

We believe that we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg in the west, persecution will continue to get worse and we believe it will become like Stalinist Russia in a shot time.

Hang in there, Slayer, the church will come out victorious ( Matt 16:18,) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. You said that you were baptist. Would it be THE PRIMITIVE BAPTIST? as I am.

 

[preston39]

I need to ask the question - Are people FORCED to belong to a church or is it their own choice ? they are only 'trapped if they are FORCED into it...and WHY would God not free them ? there are reasons for everything and we don't know them.

b...,

Why does G-d allow us to be subjected to the draw of sin?
G-d would not free them from a church because they can free themselves. Have never seen a church with ball and chain/lock and key......have you?

 

[Slayer]

Hang in there, Slayer, the church will come out victorious ( Matt 16:18,) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. You said that you were baptist. Would it be THE PRIMITIVE BAPTIST? as I am.

Yes our Church is very conservative, we hold to the original model of the New Testament Church as much as possible. The Bible is the final authority on all matters in our Church, we also believe that God is building His Church in spite of the persecution His people suffer. We believe the church will be victorious and conquer the whole world at the appointed time.

The majority of the "Christian" Churches have apostatized, they have succumbed to pressure for the secular world and they don't preach the whole counsel of God. They only preach about Gods love and how He wants to bless everyone with health and prosperity, they never preach on sin and judgement.

Our Church is a Reformed Baptist church, we are not popular. Many people come in to worship service and walk out murmuring in disgust, when they hear the whole Gospel being proclaimed and preached. We are not gay friendly or seeker friendly, only those who love the truth stay with us.

 

[beta]

b...,

Why does G-d allow us to be subjected to the draw of sin?
G-d would not free them from a church because they can free themselves. Have never seen a church with ball and chain/lock and key......have you?

That is the point I was making....why would people even want to be in a church they don't agree with ? we have to want to come out - then God will help us.
But let us remember that not all religions are as free. GOD had to bring me out from a totally RCC dominated country or I would not have found the TRUE JESUS.. That was 70 years ago....today things might be a little different.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes our Church is very conservative, we hold to the original model of the New Testament Church as much as possible. The Bible is the final authority on all matters in our Church, we also believe that God is building His Church in spite of the persecution His people suffer. We believe the church will be victorious and conquer the whole world at the appointed time.

The majority of the "Christian" Churches have apostatized, they have succumbed to pressure for the secular world and they don't preach the whole counsel of God. They only preach about Gods love and how He wants to bless everyone with health an7:13-14d prosperity, they never preach on sin and judgement.

Our Church is a Reformed Baptist church, we are not popular. Many people come in to worship service and walk out murmuring in disgust, when they hear the whole Gospel being proclaimed and preached. We are not gay friendly or seeker friendly, only those who love the truth stay with us.

From what I gather from the scriptures is that the church that Jesus set up has never been popular to most of his children. The church is spoken as , the little flock, the few, ( as in, the two gates spoken of in Matt 7:13-14, The strait gate and narrow way that leadeth to life ( not eternal, but that good life God tells us to choose ) I believe this depicts the church that Jesus set up, and few there be who find it. The wide gate and broad way depicts all of the false doctrines that God's misinformed children have devised. I believe the scriptures to teach that the church will always be a small number and looked upon by most of his children with disgust. That is the way it has been ever sense Jesus set it up.